Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
What commotion they approached us in stealth thinking they were going to die they were pleasantly surprised when it was just someone who felt like a greater Akuma walking into Mexico City rather than actually a lord of outer night. If we had vanished that would have been it they would have looked around saw a teenage girl and then would have walked past because that's it and anonymity through propriety makes us functionally invisible not actually invisible. Also that's the same argument for using BMI before getting in the river as well if we had used anonymity through propriety with etiquette Excellency before getting in the river we would have completely avoided the Ambush as well. You have a point on saving a mote though. But obviously if we cared about mote economy we would get Mana Manipulation now.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Or they could have freaked out since the high tier vamp they were hunting down for miles just disappeared under their noses and they have no idea where they went.
ATP leaves traces and BMI doesn't. Activating ATP before the river wouldn't have helped.
We do care about Mote economy it's a constant topic when we are low on essence and predict incoming fights.
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BMI has the same problem as ATP that being that anybody we need to use it on, will have powers and ablities that completely bypass it.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
What are you talking about? We could've used it on Sandra and she wouldn't have known.
In order conceptual link to our family maybe but I think that immediately would bring in angels to defend them. Though that is me guessing. Our inner world is protected by our charms because it's our soul and any attempt to change those things immediately run into those charms. I don't think the sympathetic links between Molly Carpenter and her minions are actually strong enough to work any significant Magic on maybe you could do some kind of divination through employment but that's a weird one. Our wonders have attuned owners so while they are made by our hand they stop being ours the second their owner attuned to them also they are objects so maybe they could be unattuned maybe. Same thing for land occupied or claimed by us maybe some kind of divination through claim Maybe but no major magic because we don't actually hold any formal or actual territory I think even Porter station belongs to Porter The Elemental we just repaired it.
Then again all of this kind of depends on clones leaving corpses instead of bursting into the Red Wind they were formed from when they die and that red wind rushing to us to be absorbed like what would happen if we died.
BMI only fools mortal senses, it explicitly written that supernatural senses are unaffected by the the charm. IE something everybody of importance has in abundance.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
IIRC it takes something on the level of the Sight to breach BMI and nobody uses that willy nilly for mental health reasons.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
What do you think they will be detecting when BMI covers our doom aura?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I tracked down a source
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy
You guys definitely cannot do Sol, you do not know who that is. Liger is more possible you saw him repeatedly in your dreams, though you do not know what that is beyond 'The Sun before the Sun'. As to what reactions that would get.. well the Sight sees though BMI, but it takes effects of that...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Vampires have Auspex, Mages have the Sight ETC. Supernatural senses are a staple of all the WW games. Some of which are of the always on verity.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I'm not seeing a reason to believe Sandra would've known Molly was in town had she used BMI.
Dragon Paradox who's right to add the Homebrew elements because any basic level of Auspex, Prime sense, chimerical vision, werewolf looking beside would all allow them to immediately like on accident be able to discern our nature flat out in a setting where we're the only one so far at least that immediately gives away our identity.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It's not a "all supernatural senses can detect you", it's a "Your supernatural senses must be this tall to ride"
@DragonParadox can you benchmark the sight? I think it's becoming relevant.
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That's not actually true we broke cover using our anima I think like a couple minutes before even meeting her first brainwashed agents on the Street.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
The agents were tracking us remember? Our aura wasn't covered so everyone in the city with supernatural senses knew our general direction for some hours before the attack. DP had said we could've been tracked from afar by ghost as well and with the Blampire and Charon around that seemed rather likely to be the case. BMI would've allowed us the option to circumvent that entirely.
No they weren't they were just programmed to go berserk on seeing our face. The minute we pop our anima Black Mirror Incarnation Falls. Those people weren't intended to go off she had random people program to attack us on sight. She was preparing for us to come get her for months that's why she installed the hypnotic casino machine to hypnotize Tommy's men. The ghost would have found us anyway because we broke BMI stealth at that River where the ghost would have reported on us also we had Lydia with us a known associate and Dresden with us also a known associate.
Unless we plan on doing a bunch of things solo which we can't because we have just awful investigation and general perception skills outside of occult having perfect stealth doesn't help because we have Miss walking death, light demon and powerful wizard with us at pretty much all times during Vegas. Now none of those are visible from across Vegas but they're pretty distinct all around.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
They had to have been following us because they had bazookas out in public and we were driving when attacked. Even in Vegas just walking around with those on the Vegas Strip would've caused issues with the authorities. They knew we would be there they were tracking us.
If we had BMI we would've planned accordingly. Possibly giving everyone disguises earlier on to protect their identities with BMI active. We had options.
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No it isnt.
I cant imagine what gave you that idea, when the literal text of the charm calls it a perfect illusion that fools all five senses.
Even in this quest, it takes the Sight to see through BMI, and the Sight is literally opening your mind and soul to the universe, with the potential that what you see will break your mind, like Dresden getting fucked up by looking at the naagloshii, or all the Three-Eye addicts who got fucked up by using it.
A two dot discipline power in Auspex aura sight allows a vampire to tell that this person is an infernal. Because Black Mirror Incarnation without Dragon Paradox is Homebrew Only Fools the five senses. Extra sensory effects like being able to tell the shape of the soul of another being or being able to directly perceive the prime signature of other beings etc etc would immediately pierce it. It wouldn't tell you the identity of the infernal in question that would be piercing the actual illusion but the illusion does nothing to hide the nature of the being in question.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Bazooka point I think they just had those because apparently it's not uncommon for Tommy's men to just have military weapons. But I think we would have been attacked anyway because we broke the condition to keep Black Mirror Incarnation up at that River.
Our aura would have been spilling out into Vegas the second we broke surface maybe that singular interaction could have been avoided but then the rest continues as follows because we took damage only from that automaton and Sandra went to ground in the dragon's pit anyway.
Tommy's men still end up being hypnotized but we still completely avoided them using mundane disguises the only one that didn't I think was Dresden and that was at a fast food stop and he doesn't have a perfect disguise either.
Then the rest of the mission unfolds as it already did Sandra uses her chaos storm we go to harrowmont. Then we stormed the tunnels with our men.
Thought I'd take a shot at a variant clone charm based on what's been talked about so far:
This got away from me a bit, but the basic idea is to thematically lean into the primordial ascension thing and make actually producing the clones more flavorful. It resolves the balance issue with exalted clones using that same metaphor.
Charms are soul organs, and the clones are faces instead of hands. Even Superman can't pull a trigger with his eyelids, but they aren't any less bulletproof than the rest of him.
Note that I chose abilities and not charms very specifically there; if we want to play the harmonica/cast fire bolt with our nose that'd need special training as a mortal like the current ruling requires. So defenses are okay, potentially including soak boosts, but no free circle of excellency fueled ritual casters or whatever.
The arcana stuff is a baseline improvement to mitigate issues, which we pay for with the actual material cost and additional importance of each clone. We can't change the base stats, so adding features shouldn't be too broken. The emanation thing seems fitting to me too; these are a type of Molly-demon after all.
Thoughts?
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error
The first of all acts was to name. Each titan tearing themselves from the roiling chaos and defining themselves against it. A fact that no debasement could ever wholly take from them.
Echoing that act their heirs turn their hands on their own souls; naming each part according to their own design, thereby becoming in small part like those spoke themselves into being.
System:
The infernal spends 5 essence and meditates for at least one scene, turning inwards to look at their own soul. Once there, she must make a willpower roll to search her own memories for something that defines her.
It can be nearly anything; important memories, strong beliefs, trauma, what matters is that it's true and personal to the exalt. This can be very unpleasant, and lower successes should result in facing less comfortable things.
Whatever she finds, the infernal then names and begins the process of shaping into a new facet of her soul. She may have no more than her essence rating of these, and if one is destroyed the element of her soul it embodies is numbed in whatever manner is appropriate until she repeats this ritual at +2 DC to find and reform it.
If the infernal dies instead her essence manifests as screaming wind and flees to the nearest clone, killing it in her place. This wounds the infernal's spirit, dropping her one essence level that may not be regained by any means before she reforms the facet she replaced.
Once named facets may be embodied or dispelled with a thought, supposing they aren't currently destroyed and are in the infernal's presence, but she must pay 1 mote to copy over any memories directly.
As they are subordinate faces of the infernal's soul she may not use her charms through them to directly affect the world. However, as they are still part of her they may still affect themselves.
In general this means abilities that solely impact the infernal and do not rely on active interaction. The infernal may not use excellency through a clone any more than she may fire a shotgun with her nose, but can defend any part of her 'face' with equal strength. When doing so they share the infernal's essence pool.
By default the clones form as an approximation of the infernal as a mortal but for the same resource investment as making one outright she may invest them with the appropriate number of arcana features.
If the infernal has a hell they may spend one arcana feature point to provide an emanation style return function. By spending one willpower they may vanish in a burst of flaying wind to return to her hell. This counts as a clone death for the purposes of this charm.
Echoing that act their heirs turn their hands on their own souls; naming each part according to their own design, thereby becoming in small part like those spoke themselves into being.
System:
The infernal spends 5 essence and meditates for at least one scene, turning inwards to look at their own soul. Once there, she must make a willpower roll to search her own memories for something that defines her.
It can be nearly anything; important memories, strong beliefs, trauma, what matters is that it's true and personal to the exalt. This can be very unpleasant, and lower successes should result in facing less comfortable things.
Whatever she finds, the infernal then names and begins the process of shaping into a new facet of her soul. She may have no more than her essence rating of these, and if one is destroyed the element of her soul it embodies is numbed in whatever manner is appropriate until she repeats this ritual at +2 DC to find and reform it.
If the infernal dies instead her essence manifests as screaming wind and flees to the nearest clone, killing it in her place. This wounds the infernal's spirit, dropping her one essence level that may not be regained by any means before she reforms the facet she replaced.
Once named facets may be embodied or dispelled with a thought, supposing they aren't currently destroyed and are in the infernal's presence, but she must pay 1 mote to copy over any memories directly.
As they are subordinate faces of the infernal's soul she may not use her charms through them to directly affect the world. However, as they are still part of her they may still affect themselves.
In general this means abilities that solely impact the infernal and do not rely on active interaction. The infernal may not use excellency through a clone any more than she may fire a shotgun with her nose, but can defend any part of her 'face' with equal strength. When doing so they share the infernal's essence pool.
By default the clones form as an approximation of the infernal as a mortal but for the same resource investment as making one outright she may invest them with the appropriate number of arcana features.
If the infernal has a hell they may spend one arcana feature point to provide an emanation style return function. By spending one willpower they may vanish in a burst of flaying wind to return to her hell. This counts as a clone death for the purposes of this charm.
This got away from me a bit, but the basic idea is to thematically lean into the primordial ascension thing and make actually producing the clones more flavorful. It resolves the balance issue with exalted clones using that same metaphor.
Charms are soul organs, and the clones are faces instead of hands. Even Superman can't pull a trigger with his eyelids, but they aren't any less bulletproof than the rest of him.
Note that I chose abilities and not charms very specifically there; if we want to play the harmonica/cast fire bolt with our nose that'd need special training as a mortal like the current ruling requires. So defenses are okay, potentially including soak boosts, but no free circle of excellency fueled ritual casters or whatever.
The arcana stuff is a baseline improvement to mitigate issues, which we pay for with the actual material cost and additional importance of each clone. We can't change the base stats, so adding features shouldn't be too broken. The emanation thing seems fitting to me too; these are a type of Molly-demon after all.
Thoughts?
Edit:
error
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