Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

It really is that easy for Nemesis. In fact, its that easy for a lot of Outsiders.
Canonically.
To clarify, since I was the last one to bring that particular issue up, the point wasn't that nemesis would brainjack them. It's that they're vulnerable to perfectly normal force.

Then all our friends at school are infected, our family is too, Isabella is, Laura Raith is, the president is, our contact in the library is, Harrowmont will soon be….

It is stupid to think that it really is that easy for them, because then we have lost, end of the line, do nit collect anything.

Our friends are just as, actually more, vulnerable to these kinds of tactics, yet we aren't running like a beheaded chicken at the idea of them being infected.

Edit:

I mean, if we think we can keep our friends and close associates safe, then we can keep our clones safe too, and that's it.
 
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It is speculation that is based on what the charm is supposed to represent though.

Plus, it doesn't matter anyway, if Nemesis can infect our clones that easily, then our friends, and Isabella, and Charity, and our brother and sisters, and so on and so forth, are absolutely fair game and already infected.
Doesn't matter how the charm is supposed to work or what it represents. Nemesis can roll to resist the fucking Crown something that Uriel asked us not to use on Angels or the WhiteGod implying that it may work on even them if they don't pass a roll or that it would cost them something to resist.

I'd expect Nemesis to be able to bypass the loyalty effect of a charm because again characters who haven't been described as a "peer to Uriel" can bypass charm effects.
It is stupid to think that it really is that easy for them, because then we have lost, end of the line, do nit collect anything.
It isn't stupid you just don't like it. We can see infected by using the Crown Nemesis does not know what methods we use just that we have some bullshit way to sense it. That alone would make it hesitate to waste limited assets to attempt to infect Molly's friends.

Edit: Also Molly's family has Angel protection. Not Daniel though because people wanted to train him.
 
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I suspect that of all the forces Nemesis has access to the most detailed information about the Exalts... Because he hangs with those who may remember the times of sieges after the Primodal War.

Regarding the danger of capturing clones... This can be circumvented by making beacons or self-destruction, but this is unethical. But even without clones active in the normal world, the clone trick inside the soul world still works.
 
Then all our friends at school are infected, our family is too, Isabella is, Laura Raith is, the president is, our contact in the library is, Harrowmont will soon be….

It is stupid to think that it really is that easy for them, because then we have lost, end of the line, do nit collect anything. Our friends are just as, actually more, vulnerable to these kinds of tactics, yet we aren't running like a beheaded chicken at the idea of them being infected.

Edit:
I mean, if we think we can keep our friends and close associates safe, then we can keep our clones safe too, and that's it.
No, they have limited resources and a budget.
Just like a person on a fixed salary has to budget as to whether they want to buy a new car or go on a vacation to Cancun, the Outsiders have to decide who they want to possess and if its worth it.

Thats why the Outer Gates and similar spots are a big deal.
Because they limit the number of Outsiders inside Creation able to do this shit.


Dont get me wrong. I mean, I think Splintered Gale Shintai is a priority purchase.
After Inner Devils Unchained, its the next most important charm on my shopping list.
But I dont think we are well served by minimizing the capabilities of the Outsiders.

My preferred solution is to simply use IDU on our clones and give them powers by making them fomorachs.
Same with any other people we use IDU on.
There's werewolf Gifts available to fomor specifically for dealing with this sort of creeping threat.

Hell, I think there is a 6-7 dot Merit for it, but I would have to do a deep dive to check.
 
@Degorium Here I found the relevant bits. Nemesis can bypass the Sight. It's that bullshit.
It has a power that is not quite a perfect defense, but is annoying camouflage since it is both itself and its host it always shows to the observer whichever of its sides would be most advantageous to its purposes. So an unprepared wizard might get an eye full of Outsider and go mad and a careful well prepared investigator might scry only the host and miss the infection. Unfortunately for it God King's sight says 'screw you' and just showed Molly both, basically looking through one vision and into the other
Because Molly is pretty sure that does not work. You have to keep in mind that even when Molly used the Crown to find the things she had to make a roll to see though its last line of bullshit defense [Nemesis' charm is called Thief of All, Lord of Nothing for what it's worth]. Odds are good that is the perfect manifestation of your soul cannot see it all the time Helscry alone cannot spot that the infected are CoD... probably because most of the time they are not. The thing is more 'devil on the shoulder' most days, not a puppeteer.
 
@Degorium Here I found the relevant bits. Nemesis can bypass the Sight. It's that bullshit.

Doesn't that support my interpretation that Nemesis doesn't intertwine itself on a soul and mind level all the time. Because most of the time people who host it aren't creatures of Darkness he's sitting on their shoulder rather than riding their brains. That close proximity and minute distance or how it actually
avoids being seen.
 
Doesn't that support my interpretation that Nemesis doesn't intertwine itself on a soul and mind level all the time.
Its not exactly something Nemesis can decide to turn on or off if Nemesis is in your soul it's in your soul. DP said the only reason why it didn't leave the summer infected before we purged it is because doing so would be against it's intimacies. The quotes say that Nemesis can show you whatever side of a soul it wants not that it can eject itself to avoid notice.
 
That's not exactly something Nemesis can decide to turn on or off if Nemesis is in your soul it's in your soul. DP said the only reason why it didn't leave the summer infected before we purged it is because doing so would be against it's intimacies. The quotes say that Nemesis can show you whatever side of a soul it wants not that it can eject itself to avoid notice.
I'm using the term intertwined rather specifically. Because if he's attached like a Scar or cut or infection rather than cancer. Then he can hide rather easily by slightly submerging Or changing, but that means he doesn't have complete access to everything going on inside of your soul and mind at all times he has to purposely look and search and dig and that can reveal him to people who know the signs. It seems to me from the quotes he's a shadow rather than a cancer that suffuses the soul in mind of the people he's riding he whispers in the ear he rides upon the shoulder rather than in the brain meat.
 
Then he can hide rather easily by slightly submerging Or changing, but that means he doesn't have complete access to everything going on inside of your soul and mind at all times he has to purposely look and search and dig and that can reveal him to people who know the signs. It seems to me from the quotes he's a shadow rather than a cancer that suffuses the soul in mind of the people he's writing he whispers in the ear he rides upon the shoulder rather than in the brain meat.
The quote says that Nemesis is both itself and it's host not one or the other. The conclusion that if you have a thought then it does too seems valid given that. It's just semantics at this point. Either he has access to your mind and soul at all times or he can at will which means if he grabs a clone he knows everything Molly did when she spawned it.

I don't literally believe that Nemesis lives in brain matter btw just that he can access your thoughts through your soul. You don't need a brain to have thoughts in this setting after all.
 
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The quote says that Nemesis is both itself and it's host not one or the other. The conclusion that if you have a thought then it does too seems valid given that. It's just semantics at this point. Either he has access to your mind and soul at all times or he can at will which means if he grabs a clone he knows everything Molly did when she spawned it.

I don't literally believe that Nemesis lives in brain matter btw just that he can access your thoughts through your soul. You don't need a brain to have thoughts in this setting after all.
There's a thing, though if you don't invite him in. I'm almost certain that would give him away to you. The person possessed. As in world of Darkness psychic and generally mind magic effects like that immediately trigger willpower rolls to resist the only time they don't is if you have already sold your soul or given access to the being that is performing that invasion. This remains true in Dresden Files too sure using those mental defenses in Dresden Files means use being driven insane as the magic immediately grinds on them enough to slowly kill you but it is there still. Hell even basic possession already triggers a willpower roll in world of Darkness at all never mind actually rifling through the soul of somebody.

Edit: there has to be some reason why he whispers on the shoulder at all rather than just puppeting everyone he possesses. It stands to reason that he can possess them and stay silent and remain hidden indefinitely while making small nudges here and there rather than prying into their mind or Soul where if they have any level of Defense at all they might notice something is wrong.
 
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There's a thing, though if you don't invite him in. I'm almost certain that would give him away to you. The person possessed. As in world of Darkness psychic and generally mind magic effects like that immediately trigger willpower rolls to resist
Nemesis isn't mind magic it's an Outsider described to be a peer of Uriel that specced into jacking bodies so effectively that it's better known for it than any other character in setting. I doubt you'd get a willpower roll if your already infected and you're Nemesis and not Nemesis simultaneously as described.

If your arguing that you could roll then not get possessed and realize what it just attempted to do, I haven't been debating against that. We already saw that Lily got to roll and won, the point is that it's a gamble.
 
Feels a little weird to have an anti outsiders treaty without the Archive being a party to it. Well at the very least she will know about it.
 
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Nemesis isn't mind magic it's an Outsider described to be a peer of Uriel that specced into jacking bodies so effectively that it's better known for it than any other character in setting. I doubt you'd get a willpower roll if your already infected and you're Nemesis and not Nemesis simultaneously as described.

If your arguing that you could roll then not get possessed and realize what it just attempted to do, I haven't been debating against that. We already saw that Lily got to roll and won, the point is that it's a gamble.
No I think you would get even then a willpower roll. The reason for that is unless he does actually become you and cease to be his own entity entirely then he's making a hostile action inside of you to retrieve information from your mind without any form of consent. The only time in world of Darkness... I can't even think of a interaction where a being that does not already hold the entirety of your soul can make a uncontested action to pry into your mind or your soul for that matter.
 
It really is that easy for Nemesis. In fact, its that easy for a lot of Outsiders.
Canonically.
One huge flaw in your logic: all your examples are fae. Fae and mortals are different. Mortals have free will, and are unbound by magic. Mortals generate thresholds. Show examples of Nemesis being able to possess humans that easily, please.

Because otherwise, there's really no conceivable logic for why it doesn't control the world. Almost all mortal world leaders have public appearances, so infecting them should be easy. Yet, it doesn't happen.

Nemesis has to have some manner of limits, and they aren't just "limited number of slots".
 
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No I think you would get even then a willpower roll. The reason for that is unless he does actually become you and cease to be his own entity entirely then he's making a hostile action inside of you to retrieve information from your mind without any form of consent. The only time in world of Darkness... I can't even think of a interaction where a being that does not already hold the entirety of your soul can make a uncontested action to pry into your mind or your soul for that matter.
As the quote says it is and isn't it's host. I don't believe you'd get a willpower roll to resist browsing your own memories and since Nemesis is also you it makes sense that it could do the same. It's manner of possession likely works much more intimately with different mechanics than others which is why leaving a host at will goes against it's intimacies.

At any rate even if your right that just means if you fail a willpower roll the clone is fucked and Nemesis gets it's info dump so its just details again. The risk is still present as well as the motive.
 
Because otherwise, there's really no conceivable logic for why it doesn't control the world
No one ever said Nemesis doesn't have limits.

1) It most likely has a limited number of people it can jack.
2) The big movers are aware of Nemesis and have reason to contest Outsider plans when possible.
3) If Nemesis fails the roll it doesn't get your body. How often it fails these rolls it up in the air.

Edit: Nemesis wouldn't loose the asset if it doesn't go for a sacrificial play.
 
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As the quote says it is and isn't it's host. I don't believe you'd get a willpower roll to resist browsing your own memories and since Nemesis is also you it makes sense that it could do the same. It's manner of possession likely works much more intimately with different mechanics than others which is why leaving a host at will goes against it's intimacies.

At any rate even if your right that just means if you fail a willpower roll the clone is fucked and Nemesis gets it's info dump so its just details again. The risk is still present as well as the motive.
That quote is essentially a charm that says for the purposes of observation the walker in question acts as both Outsider and possessee as befits it best. I really wouldn't extend it that far because essentially that means somehow without dissolving in any way that he has become you but without taking on any of the defining aspects of yourself. Also you don't take on any defining aspect of it either. You don't permanently have the creature of Darkness tag the second you become possessed nor do you inherently want to destroy the universe. To carry that all the way is not quite what I would do. I just think there's a both thematic and actual reason why he can't know everything the person he is riding knows. Because there's a thing even if he manages to possess a clone he has to beat a willpower 9 roll to possess just to begin with then if that possession didn't give it away has to beat a willpower 9 roll to actively look through the memories of a clone if it fails that one specifically that clone can call us or specifically make itself dissolve even if that happens rather violently. Because Molly Carpenter is a willpower 9 person slitting your own throat to deny the enemy and the information is definitely within a scale of a thing she could do. Especially knowing that you will be revived because all the Clones that die if their deaths are violent they don't remember them but we can reconstitute them.
 
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No one ever said Nemesis doesn't have limits.

1) It most likely has a limited number of people it can jack.
2) The big movers are aware of Nemesis and have reason to contest Outsider plans when possible.
3) If Nemesis fails the roll it loose the asset and doesn't get your body. How often it fails these rolls it up in the air.
There are a lot of assumptions baked in here. So far, the only canon evidence we have indicates that it can quickly possess fae under certain circumstances. Nothing about mortals, nothing about magicians, nothing about a lot of stuff.

In regards to Molly's clones, this feels very much like fear mongering without any substantial proof. Previous posts indicate that Molly's clones are part of the Greater Dreamer!Molly:
Splintered Gale Incarnation might look like different people and it might look like aspects of the same person and both are true at the same time because the nature of the Primordials of which you draw your power is not limited to puny mortal understanding in much the same way as VEE's wish granting can look like it breaks causality when someone who asks for a job receives a letter asking them to start tomorrow even though the letter is dated a week before they made the request.

So is SGI a person whom you would be killing if you get killed and reincarnate? Well no, that paradigm would depend on the entity being able to exist as something other than an aspect of Molly Carpenter, there is no button marked 'let the clone loose', anymore than there is a button to make two plus two make six. Does someone/something die as part of the imperfect reincarnation, yes a part of you, but that is inherent to the themes of the Hell of Being Skinned Alive. Freedom Lets Go literally rips off a piece of your soul with a curse or transformation attached and hurls it into the depths of hell.
Pretty sure DP explained that Molly Prime and her Clones would still be part of the same entity.
They would be yes, Molly just would not be conscious of that fact, she would experience it as two distinct Mollys because of her fundamentally human mindset. That said she also does not have that charm now so she has no idea IC what a spirit killer would do to one of her clones, how that may be the same or different from the shadow in front of you. Right now she has a sense that murder is meat would do... something to the being before her, something it would not do to say one of Lydia's reanimated puppets.
We know that Molly cannot be possessed full stop, because exaltation already fully occupies the space in / near her soul that could normally be possessed. It stands to reason that other manifestations of her soul, if lesser ones, also cannot be possessed.

@Yog Also Rashid can see Nemesis which even further limits it's movements.
That honestly isn't an argument at all - Rashid is one person, and, as far as we know, his ability is line of sight only. There's no reason for Nemesis not to control all the world's governments.
 
One huge flaw in your logic: all your examples are fae. Fae and mortals are different. Mortals have free will, and are unbound by magic. Mortals generate thresholds. Show examples of Nemesis being able to possess humans that easily, please.

Because otherwise, there's really no conceivable logic for why it doesn't control the world. Almost all mortal world leaders have public appearances, so infecting them should be easy. Yet, it doesn't happen.
Nemesis has to have some manner of limits, and they aren't just "limited number of slots".
True, they are all Fae.
We dont see many mortals at the gates, after all. Generally, mortals do not have enough power or access to be worth bothering with.The very existence of Starborn among mortals suggest that they arent immune either.

But this is what we see with Dresden in the same scene:
I looked around the perfectly serene forest. It was a bit of an effort, since the helmet kept me from turning my head very smoothly. I looked up, too. I'm sure the armor made me look goofy. "Uh, okay."
Mother Summer smiled, took my arm again, and stretched out one foot. She used it to brush a layer of dirt and fallen leaves from the pitted surface of a flat stone, like a paving stone, maybe three feet square. She tapped it three times with her foot, whispered a word, and drew me along with her as she stepped onto it.
No drama ensued. The landscape simply changed, as swiftly and drastically as when you turn on a light while in a darkened room. One second we stood in an autumnal megaforest. The next . . .
I've seen movies and newsreels about World War I. They didn't cover it as thoroughly in my schools, because America didn't have a leading role in it, and because the entire stupid, avoidable mess was a Continental clusterfuck that killed millions and settled nothing but the teams for the next world war. But what they did show me I remembered. Miles and miles of trenches. A smoke-haunted no-man's-land strung with muddy, rusty barbed wire and lined with machine guns and marksmen. There was a pall of smoke that turned the sun into a dully glowing orb.
But the movies couldn't cover all the senses. There was a constant rumble in the sky, thunder born of violence, and there was everywhere the smell of feces and death.
We stood atop a small, barren mountain, looking down. Near us, only a few hundred yards away, was an immense wall, the kind you'd use to hold out the Mongols if they were the size of King Kong. It was built entirely from ice or some kind of translucent crystal. Even from here, I could see that there were chambers and rooms in the wall, rooms containing barracks, hospitals, kitchens, you name it. There were dim and indistinct forms moving around in them.
The walls were lined with what had to be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers. I peered, trying to get a better look, and then realized that they were armored Sidhe.
All of them.
They all wore armor similar to mine,
its highlights throwing back the cool, muted shades of Winter.
Out beyond the wall was a land made of dust and mud and loose shale. It was covered in hillocks and steep gullies, and the only plants that grew there looked like they were certain to poke, scratch, or sting you. Though the land was somehow lit, the sky was as black as Cat Sith's conscience, without a single star or speck of light to be seen—and it was an overwhelming sky, enormous, like in the open, rolling lands of Montana and Wyoming.
There were more bodies of troops moving out there. Some of them looked like they might have been giants, or maybe trolls. Larger groups containing smaller individuals were likely Winter's gnomes. Things flew in the air. Bands of what appeared to be mounted cavalry rode back and forth. Some of the soldiers looked suspiciously like animated snowmen.
From this vantage point, I could see two major engagements happening, each containing maybe forty thousand Winter troops. And they were fighting. . . .
I couldn't make out the enemy. There didn't seem to be any unity of form. They were creatures—creatures whose physiologies made no sense, were utterly without order. I saw what appeared to be tentacles, enormous mandibles, claws, fangs, clublike limbs and tails. They weren't bipedal. They weren't quadrupeds. In fact, they seemed to have no regard for bilateral symmetry at all.
I peered a little closer and felt a sudden, horrible pressure inside my head. I felt dizzy for a second, nauseated, and at the same time part of me was screaming that I needed to ditch my escort and go look at these things for myself, that there was something there, something I wanted to see, something I wanted to stare at for a while. A cold, somehow greasy tendril of energy slithered around inside my head, something I had felt before when . . .

I jerked my eyes away with a short grunt of effort, closed them, and left them closed. "Holy . . . Outsiders? Mab's fighting Outsiders?"
Mother Summer said nothing.
This was Harry just looking at the Outsider armies, from the other side of the Outer Gates.
And he's Starborn, and thus supposed to be particularly immune to that shit.
 
True, they are all Fae.
We dont see many mortals at the gates, after all. Generally, mortals do not have enough power or access to be worth bothering with.The very existence of Starborn among mortals suggest that they arent immune either.

But this is what we see with Dresden in the same scene:
I looked around the perfectly serene forest. It was a bit of an effort, since the helmet kept me from turning my head very smoothly. I looked up, too. I'm sure the armor made me look goofy. "Uh, okay."
Mother Summer smiled, took my arm again, and stretched out one foot. She used it to brush a layer of dirt and fallen leaves from the pitted surface of a flat stone, like a paving stone, maybe three feet square. She tapped it three times with her foot, whispered a word, and drew me along with her as she stepped onto it.
No drama ensued. The landscape simply changed, as swiftly and drastically as when you turn on a light while in a darkened room. One second we stood in an autumnal megaforest. The next . . .
I've seen movies and newsreels about World War I. They didn't cover it as thoroughly in my schools, because America didn't have a leading role in it, and because the entire stupid, avoidable mess was a Continental clusterfuck that killed millions and settled nothing but the teams for the next world war. But what they did show me I remembered. Miles and miles of trenches. A smoke-haunted no-man's-land strung with muddy, rusty barbed wire and lined with machine guns and marksmen. There was a pall of smoke that turned the sun into a dully glowing orb.
But the movies couldn't cover all the senses. There was a constant rumble in the sky, thunder born of violence, and there was everywhere the smell of feces and death.
We stood atop a small, barren mountain, looking down. Near us, only a few hundred yards away, was an immense wall, the kind you'd use to hold out the Mongols if they were the size of King Kong. It was built entirely from ice or some kind of translucent crystal. Even from here, I could see that there were chambers and rooms in the wall, rooms containing barracks, hospitals, kitchens, you name it. There were dim and indistinct forms moving around in them.
The walls were lined with what had to be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers. I peered, trying to get a better look, and then realized that they were armored Sidhe.
All of them.
They all wore armor similar to mine,
its highlights throwing back the cool, muted shades of Winter.
Out beyond the wall was a land made of dust and mud and loose shale. It was covered in hillocks and steep gullies, and the only plants that grew there looked like they were certain to poke, scratch, or sting you. Though the land was somehow lit, the sky was as black as Cat Sith's conscience, without a single star or speck of light to be seen—and it was an overwhelming sky, enormous, like in the open, rolling lands of Montana and Wyoming.
There were more bodies of troops moving out there. Some of them looked like they might have been giants, or maybe trolls. Larger groups containing smaller individuals were likely Winter's gnomes. Things flew in the air. Bands of what appeared to be mounted cavalry rode back and forth. Some of the soldiers looked suspiciously like animated snowmen.
From this vantage point, I could see two major engagements happening, each containing maybe forty thousand Winter troops. And they were fighting. . . .
I couldn't make out the enemy. There didn't seem to be any unity of form. They were creatures—creatures whose physiologies made no sense, were utterly without order. I saw what appeared to be tentacles, enormous mandibles, claws, fangs, clublike limbs and tails. They weren't bipedal. They weren't quadrupeds. In fact, they seemed to have no regard for bilateral symmetry at all.
I peered a little closer and felt a sudden, horrible pressure inside my head. I felt dizzy for a second, nauseated, and at the same time part of me was screaming that I needed to ditch my escort and go look at these things for myself, that there was something there, something I wanted to see, something I wanted to stare at for a while. A cold, somehow greasy tendril of energy slithered around inside my head, something I had felt before when . . .

I jerked my eyes away with a short grunt of effort, closed them, and left them closed. "Holy . . . Outsiders? Mab's fighting Outsiders?"
Mother Summer said nothing.
This was Harry just looking at the Outsider armies, from the other side of the Outer Gates.
And he's Starborn, and thus supposed to be particularly immune to that shit.
1) That's an effect of being near massive number of Outsiders at the borders of Creation, where laws of reality might be different
2) Harry is not pure mortal. If nothing else, he's a winter knight at the time of this quote. I.e. also a winter fae. It's quite possible that Outsiders are affecting him through Winter's mantle.
3) We don't know if in canon Starborn status grants protection from Outsiders. Power over, yes, that has been stated. Protection against? That's not the same thing at all.
4) The effect is very different from "I near-instantly possess you and get to control your body"
5) I don't see how existence of Starborn among mortals indicates anything about their resistance to Outsider possession

There's a simple explanation for instant possession of Cat Sith that doesn't require Outsiders to be able to instantly take over anyone, and doesn't break the setting. He Who Walks Behind controlled Maeve at that point, didn't he? Maeve was Winter Lady, with the power over winter fae. It's quite possible that this power, not Outsider abilities were used to get Cat Sith.
 
That honestly isn't an argument at all - Rashid is one person, and, as far as we know, his ability is line of sight only. There's no reason for Nemesis not to control all the world's governments.

All the world's governments have a lot of people in them and most of those people do not see eye to eye. It is not as simple as Nemesis taking over as many people as it wants as deeply as it wants, if it were it would skip the government part and take over the world We Are Legion Style.

So there is a resource limitation and it cannot willingly evacuate a host even in the face of being exorcised as far as Molly can tell. This would imply that Nemesis has to be quite careful with who it takes over, especially when it comes to things like politicians since their power is so transitive on the level it operates on.
 
Then all our friends at school are infected, our family is too, Isabella is, Laura Raith is, the president is, our contact in the library is, Harrowmont will soon be….

It is stupid to think that it really is that easy for them, because then we have lost, end of the line, do nit collect anything.

Our friends are just as, actually more, vulnerable to these kinds of tactics, yet we aren't running like a beheaded chicken at the idea of them being infected.
Yes they're vulnerable to it, welcome to fighting a body jacker. I mean, do you think Broken Seeker is a better plotter than nemesis that he can access our friends and it can't?

That said, it doesn't mean they are already infested because you're right about it not being limitless. It has to pick and choose where it spends its resources, and trying to take Molly's math teacher or whatever is a lot of risk for little reward. We're not the only one working against it, and its not like we're known for pouring our heart and soul out to people.

It also doesn't have any way of knowing the limits of our ability to detect it, so hanging out on our area isn't something it'll risk lightly.

That equation changes once it gets a grasp of what the clones are. It's an unusual ability, but if anyone would intuitively grasp the idea of lesser forks being spun off from a greater whole it'd be Nemesis, whose biology is built around it. They should also be pretty obviously different, what with the lack of infernal power radiating from every pore.

Nemesis really hates Molly, and there's a certain appropriateness in targeting her clones the same way we target his shards. The emotional and strategic payoff for kidnapping one of them is dramatically higher. Even a sliver of insight would be strategic gold to Nemesis, and the satisfaction of hurting her how she hurt it would be very attractive to an entity as spiteful as it is.

I wouldn't call this running around like a headless chicken either. I'm laying out a reasonable and specific concern that's demonstrably in the abilities and interests of our enemies and talking about impacts. Which aren't "never use the charm" but rather "don't use in certain ways without additional protection".

Equating that to the idea that nemesis has already replaced everyone down to our favorite potted fern is disingenuous.

Edit: error
 
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There are a lot of assumptions baked in here. So far, the only canon evidence we have indicates that it can quickly possess fae under certain circumstances. Nothing about mortals, nothing about magicians, nothing about a lot of stuff.
I made a mistake with the "it looses the asset" bit but only stated facts in the last two points and the first one just makes the most sense.
We know that Molly cannot be possessed full stop, because exaltation occupies her soul. It stands to reason that other manifestations of her soul, if lesser ones, also cannot be possessed.
Different aspects from the same entity and actively connected with each other are two different things.

Though the fact that if prime Molly dies she'll reincarnate in one of them supports the theory that they are more actively connected. I had forgotten about that aspect, it wouldn't make much sense for them to be completely separate from each other if Molly would respawn in one rather than just die.
 
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