Different rolls for different tools. BMI wouldn't let us strangle two hitmen on a public road without comment.
Also the library, they might have questions.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Should we mention her splattercon plot? It doesn't really push them to help more than they otherwise would for mind controlling them and working for the outside.
They can probably find out the connection if they want later, but we might as well make them work for it.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We wouldn't have needed to choke them out if they didn't know who we were.
We got tagged at the canals. Being in disguise wouldn't have helped. BMI also wouldn't have helped with RVD-ing into the city.
They provide different benefits and only readily replace one another in some use cases.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Pretty sure DP said that BMI would also allow us to hide the traces of our presence that comes with using RVD. IIRC, it was when I asked him about it following our trip down to Mexico and the shit storm it stirred up on the spiritual wavelengths.
Perhaps not right now, but I can stroke the fires in his soul, lit up by the desire for revenge for himself and his people, and make it into a bonfire hot enough to, if needed, reforge him into our trusted agent later.
Annihilation of Las Vegas and likely opening of their outside breach is a threat against the world.
Tommy shouldn't know what Outsiders are, and, frankly, has no need to know. We would have to explain context. Enemy of Creation is clear enough.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Dug up some references to BMI from DP.
Confirms that short of flaring our anima or direct observation from a Wizard's Sight, BMI can totally obscure our supernatural presence in addition to our appearance.
Confirms that short of flaring our anima or direct observation from a Wizard's Sight, BMI can totally obscure our supernatural presence in addition to our appearance.
We are going to have to rest anyway. We got here like midday and it's like now 1:00 a.m. we left the Venetian Canal at 11:00 p.m. this is a vote to have a dialogue and what that dialogue is going to consist of not a planning dialogue so choosing not to spend Essence just means being less effective at having this dialogue that's going to go on for this scene and then we have to rest anyway.
I dont think its the bolding.
More likely its the [STUNT] that some versions have, and others dont.
Something that can be compensated for when someone is doing the tallying.
They'll probably come ask. Not as time sensitive.
I think so.
It makes it clear that she has a pre-existing history of initiating mass casualty events, the type of things that bring government, media and supernatural scrutiny and (to the Mafia)costs money.
The Splattercon hotel was shut and never reopened, for example.
That changes the situation from just doing enough to get a couple of out of town heavy hitters to go away, to actively helping the hunt because the person being hunted is fucking them over personally.
And its an argument they can sell to other people as well if necessary.
Unlike Mutt, we know fuckall about this dude besides his being the son of a Mafia boss and being a professional killer who runs a crew of antisupernatural killers who apparently murder mortals as well.
We dont know his enemies, his beefs, or his entanglements.
We dont even know where he got his power from, or what he had to do to get it, or what obligations he's under.
He wasnt born a supernatural after all.
Besides, like I said, he has a lot more pressing matters with his organization having been suborned by a Nephandus.
That cleanup is not going to be trivial or quick. And he's still going to have to figure out what he, and other members of his crew, did in his name while they were under her influence, and if there will be blowback.
If, for example, he's been supplying heavy weapons or explosives to a domestic terrorist plot at Sandra's behest and it goes off? The national security apparatus of the United State will eat him and all his associates alive.
There are potential landmines hidden in his recent history, and I do not see how its in our interest to be in the blast radius if and when they go off. Like the previously mentioned cop killing.
The juice is not worth the squeeze.
No it isnt.
This is not the first time that this breach has opened or been weakened; thats explicitly why Death Valley is the way it is in the Dresdenverse.
Let's get the big one out of the way first: there's a reason we call this place Sin City. It's not just a marketing ploy. The city literally feeds on the energy of corruption, a psychic vampire miles and miles across. Every bad thing everyone does—from the smallest of white lies to the most heinous and dehumanizing of crimes— works in some small part to sate its hunger.
As bad as that sounds, it's actually the lesser of evils. Without that corruptive energy, Vegas would no longer be able to serve its actual purpose, sealing away something even worse underneath Nevada, stirring in the depths.
I don't know exactly what that is. It could be an entity, or simply a point of contact with some horrible Beyond. I do know that the last time it broke through, it scarred Death Valley into the very crust of the Earth. The gate, for lack of a better term, was sealed between its world and ours sometime in pre-history, perhaps by powerful shamans in the Anasazi or their ancestors.
I only know that, whoever it was, they also summoned something to deal with the problem and keep the seal intact, a demon in every sense of the word. It demanded a high price for its service—the continual direction of corruptive power right into its black heart for eternity. There has always been one person, the demon's contact with the mortal world, responsible for making sure this happens.
On March 17, 1905, the demon passed this mantle to a noble of the Red Court, who afterward answered only to "the Dragon." The Dragon proved equal to the challenge, using the Court's finances and guiding the right people to build Las Vegas up. It started with Block 16 and the "dude ranches," and eventually became the sprawling thing you now know, with the Red Court or their proxies propping up much of the financial might necessary to make it function.
It hasn't all been smooth sailing. Once the Dragon realized what he had gotten himself into, he tried to break free from the demon's grip, leading to all-out war. It's no coincidence that the United States government chose the Las Vegas Aerial Gunnery School as a nuclear test site. Those craters in the ground are the scars of their battle.
In the end, the Dragon lost. The heady cost of his struggle forced him to diversify; soon, other supernatural beings came to answer the call of Vegas, seeing prime opportunities to be had. Vegas was new, an untapped source of energy, food, slaves, favors, debts, and bargains—the grease on the wheels of the empowered world.
The Dragon shaped them until they unwittingly fed the city, allowing each faction to pursue their interests to a point, but curbing anyone who threatened to curtail the city's growth—no people, no more sin. He had balanced the equation. The demon was satisfied.
Then someone killed the Dragon, along with the rest of his kind. I see a name—Harry Dresden, awash in sin and blood.
Mr. Dresden, if you're out there, you have very likely doomed this place.
As bad as that sounds, it's actually the lesser of evils. Without that corruptive energy, Vegas would no longer be able to serve its actual purpose, sealing away something even worse underneath Nevada, stirring in the depths.
I don't know exactly what that is. It could be an entity, or simply a point of contact with some horrible Beyond. I do know that the last time it broke through, it scarred Death Valley into the very crust of the Earth. The gate, for lack of a better term, was sealed between its world and ours sometime in pre-history, perhaps by powerful shamans in the Anasazi or their ancestors.
I only know that, whoever it was, they also summoned something to deal with the problem and keep the seal intact, a demon in every sense of the word. It demanded a high price for its service—the continual direction of corruptive power right into its black heart for eternity. There has always been one person, the demon's contact with the mortal world, responsible for making sure this happens.
On March 17, 1905, the demon passed this mantle to a noble of the Red Court, who afterward answered only to "the Dragon." The Dragon proved equal to the challenge, using the Court's finances and guiding the right people to build Las Vegas up. It started with Block 16 and the "dude ranches," and eventually became the sprawling thing you now know, with the Red Court or their proxies propping up much of the financial might necessary to make it function.
It hasn't all been smooth sailing. Once the Dragon realized what he had gotten himself into, he tried to break free from the demon's grip, leading to all-out war. It's no coincidence that the United States government chose the Las Vegas Aerial Gunnery School as a nuclear test site. Those craters in the ground are the scars of their battle.
In the end, the Dragon lost. The heady cost of his struggle forced him to diversify; soon, other supernatural beings came to answer the call of Vegas, seeing prime opportunities to be had. Vegas was new, an untapped source of energy, food, slaves, favors, debts, and bargains—the grease on the wheels of the empowered world.
The Dragon shaped them until they unwittingly fed the city, allowing each faction to pursue their interests to a point, but curbing anyone who threatened to curtail the city's growth—no people, no more sin. He had balanced the equation. The demon was satisfied.
Then someone killed the Dragon, along with the rest of his kind. I see a name—Harry Dresden, awash in sin and blood.
Mr. Dresden, if you're out there, you have very likely doomed this place.
At worst, its a threat to North America.
Its not a global threat, unless the QM has altered that for this quest.
Even the vision pointed at a threat to Las Vegas, not a threat to the world.
1) Whats an enemy of Creation? How does that affect my life? Why shouldnt I leave that to other people?
Tommy Fieracelli's a Mafia sub boss, a gun-runner and a mercenary, not a philantrophist or a moral crusader.
He's paid for what he does. Dont assume people share our motivations with regards to crusading across the world solving other people's problems for free.
2) Law of Magic VII: Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates
This is public knowledge among the supernatural community.
The White Council literally goes out of its way to try and make sure all mortal magic users they meet know what the Laws are.
Including the "Dont fuck with time travel", "Dont fuck with necromancy", and "Dont fucking deal with Outsiders."
Charity knew what the Laws were because when she was a young woman in a cult, a Warden dropped by and read them all the riot act on what the rules were.
Not to mention that the Red Court has been using Outsiders in the ongoing war, and there is a Rampire presence in Vegas.
We do not need to provide more context beyond "super evil Lovecraftian demons" as opposed to the regular hellish demons.
The White Council certainly doesnt.
We do need to make it fucking clear that, even if the person involved cuts a successful personal deal and doesnt get screwed over, the White Council and a bunch of interested parties will absolutely murder any such person when they catch them.
Yes, Tommy, thats a warning to you and people around you.
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- Location
- Canada
[X] She is a servant of Outsiders
[X]STUNT: You weigh your words before you speak, Harry a reassuring presence beside you. "In Chicago, she went by the name Sandra Marling, and she's essentially a Lovecraftian cultist." You keep your tone dispassionate, even as you take the pause to retract your shield to choose your next words carefully. "She is an example of why the White Council will lethally sanction mortal magic users who break the Seventh Law." You meet Arlene's eyes, still aglow with the power of her patron, then pause for Little Tommy to put away the empty gun he hadnt realized he was still holding before you continue. "Seven months ago a failed plot of hers caused the Splattercon horror convention Incident in Chicago. As far as we can tell, she's been in Vegas for several months now, and messages to the Dragon have not been answered."
[X]STUNT: You weigh your words before you speak, Harry a reassuring presence beside you. "In Chicago, she went by the name Sandra Marling, and she's essentially a Lovecraftian cultist." You keep your tone dispassionate, even as you take the pause to retract your shield to choose your next words carefully. "She is an example of why the White Council will lethally sanction mortal magic users who break the Seventh Law." You meet Arlene's eyes, still aglow with the power of her patron, then pause for Little Tommy to put away the empty gun he hadnt realized he was still holding before you continue. "Seven months ago a failed plot of hers caused the Splattercon horror convention Incident in Chicago. As far as we can tell, she's been in Vegas for several months now, and messages to the Dragon have not been answered."
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X]STUNT: You weigh your words before you speak, Harry a reassuring presence beside you. "In Chicago, she went by the name Sandra Marling, and she's essentially a Lovecraftian cultist." You keep your tone dispassionate, even as you take the pause to retract your shield to choose your next words carefully. "She is an example of why the White Council will lethally sanction mortal magic users who break the Seventh Law." You meet Arlene's eyes, still aglow with the power of her patron, then pause for Little Tommy to put away the empty gun he hadnt realized he was still holding before you continue. "Seven months ago a failed plot of hers caused the Splattercon horror convention Incident in Chicago. As far as we can tell, she's been in Vegas for several months now, and messages to the Dragon have not been answered."
Not what I meant. I meant something along the lines of "If you see [Molly and crew], attempt to kill them. Then, when you believe you can do so discreetly, call X number and truthfully describe the entire encounter"
- Location
- Venezuela
[X] She is a servant of Outsiders
[X]STUNT: You weigh your words before you speak, Harry a reassuring presence beside you. "In Chicago, she went by the name Sandra Marling, and she's essentially a Lovecraftian cultist." You keep your tone dispassionate, even as you take the pause to retract your shield to choose your next words carefully. "She is an example of why the White Council will lethally sanction mortal magic users who break the Seventh Law." You meet Arlene's eyes, still aglow with the power of her patron, then pause for Little Tommy to put away the empty gun he hadnt realized he was still holding before you continue. "Seven months ago a failed plot of hers caused the Splattercon horror convention Incident in Chicago. As far as we can tell, she's been in Vegas for several months now, and messages to the Dragon have not been answered."
[X]STUNT: You weigh your words before you speak, Harry a reassuring presence beside you. "In Chicago, she went by the name Sandra Marling, and she's essentially a Lovecraftian cultist." You keep your tone dispassionate, even as you take the pause to retract your shield to choose your next words carefully. "She is an example of why the White Council will lethally sanction mortal magic users who break the Seventh Law." You meet Arlene's eyes, still aglow with the power of her patron, then pause for Little Tommy to put away the empty gun he hadnt realized he was still holding before you continue. "Seven months ago a failed plot of hers caused the Splattercon horror convention Incident in Chicago. As far as we can tell, she's been in Vegas for several months now, and messages to the Dragon have not been answered."
Point of correction:
Molly and Dresden are both malcoffee users, and can keep going for the rest of the week if necessary, with only an hour of sleep.
Lash has Lore of Flesh 1: Body Control to purge both herself and Lydia of fatigue poisons and the like, so they can keep going for at least a couple days with regular topups.
So the only reason we would have to stop is to try to regen Essence/Faith/mana, heal or to talk to people.
And if I recall correctly, Lash's Faith pool is due to refresh as soon as we enter a new day.
Ditto Lydia.
Thats why some of us have been so strident about being careful to pace Molly's Essence use.
If she doesnt have to stop to regenerate Essence?
She can just keep going, like the Energizer bunny. And if she keeps going, it prevents Sandra having time to adjust.
It works by covering us in the illusion of a different sort of person, I don't see why it would apply to being mixed into water.
Even setting that aside, you're still an observable person held to the behavioral standards of the people around you.
Taking our hunt for Ortega as an example; with BMI we'd have still needed to fast talk our way in, but ATP would have made it completely unnecessary. It's also a lot easier to weaponize into a first strike tool than BMI.
Both charms are very good, but only superficially resemble each other.
Fair, but I think the feds are probably going to be more than a little involved in the aftermath here.
What?
We don't need her portfolio as an apocalypse cultist to convince anyone here that she needs to die, since she's throwing around explosives and mind control like party favors, and they shouldn't need it either. Anyone who would care about prior events would care about what she just did.
- Location
- Germany
[X] She is an Enemy of Creation. Welcome to Big Leagues, Tommy, how would you like to help save the world?
I'm not talking about recruiting him, though, who knows? I am talking about making him as useful as possible, now,and afterwards.
1) Everything done by Outsiders is axiomatically a threat to Creation, large or small
2) Final Dusk is a thing that annihilates the city and a perfect point for Nemesis to break the masquerade at, like it's planning. That's a step in a major plan to harm Creation.
That is the idea of the vote, to seize upon his anger and motivate him in a way we want.
Assuming he knows the Laws, which, no, as far as I know White Council doesn't have public outreach and educational programs about, "don't open the airlock" isn't the same as "intelligent malevolent lovecraftian monsters exist just beyond the airlock, want to get in, want to destroy everything, and can give you personally power if you work for them". Outer Gates law is badly understood by the masses, and that's intentional. It's the same as with wh40k, where most imperium isn't aware that demon's are a thing.
I also don't quite get the moral stance of being against recruiting a supernatural Hitman but being okay with murderer kidnapping sadists like Winter. I don't get it so it's okay to Ally with the awful awful fairies but you draw the line at Supernatural Hitman come on. Though when I said rest I do mean like an hour or so now coffee doesn't actually delete or need to sleep it just reduces the need down to an hour per night. We can take that hour in Bleach get our nightly rest in which is 1 hour per night and regenerate our whole Essence pool.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Depends on if there's someone holding the mantle of Dragon when the dust settles, and who that person is.
These people here are likely to need to talk to other people. To convince other people.
Some of whom are at best stubborn(see Silk's relationship with Arlene) and at worst active enemies.
Convincing Big Corey, say, or Fortunato, or Briana, that Sandra Marling is not a potential ally, or just a problem for a rival, but rather a threat to the entire city? Kinda needs receipts.
And having Arlene or Little Tommy do it through their contacts saves us effort we can direct to other avenues.
Priming a professional killer and turning him loose into an ongoing Nephandi plot is at best, incredibly reckless.
Especially when there's evidence that his entire organization is compromised.
Man has more pressing things to do.
I'd rather have him running checks on his shit and finding out if there's missing ordnance that we need to worry about than running around trying to find a Nephandi mage that will probably mindwhammy him again, or feed him to a Cornerhound.
1)Yes? We know it, most members of the supernatural community dont.
And its deliberately kept that way because there is a significant minority who will outright attempt to cut deals with such entities for temporal and magical power if given the opportunity.
As long as they dont know that, you are asking them to take your unsupported word for it.
Trust me bro is a hard sell, even for an Exalt.
Especially since they will have to convince other people of this as well.
2) Thats certainly appears to be the plan of the Outsider agents in play.
But a threat to Las Vegas is not necessarily a threat to the world, and this is not likely to be the first time that a Masquerade breach will have been mitigated. Remember Milwaukee 1994.
We have no authority over him, and he has no especial reason to listen to orders from us.
All you would be doing is priming the weapon with no control over when it would blow or where.
Like I said, reckless behavior IMO.
Furthermore, you're burning Essence to do it, when we're at 60% Essence and just got warning that we have to worry about people who have been enthralled by Sandra or a collaborator as sleeper agents.
1)Why wouldnt he know about the Laws?
Literally every major faction in Las Vegas does, from the Whites to the Reds to a lot of the immigrant magic practitioners to even the freaking ghosts.
He cant have stayed in business without knowing the simple basics about the only human faction of Power in the setting.
2)This was Charity talking to Dresden in July of last year:
Charity flinched and pulled away from me. Her shoulders shook with a silent sob. She fought to control her breathing, her voice, and whispered, "A lifetime."
I felt some tension ease in me. Her reaction confirmed that I was on the right track.
"How did you know?" she asked.
"Just putting lots of little things together," I said. "Please, Charity. Tell me."
Her voice was rough, half strangled, as though the breath that carried her words had been tainted with something rotten. "I had some talent. It showed just before my sixteenth birthday. You know how awkward that kind of thing can be."
"Yeah," I said. "How'd your family take it?"
Her mouth twisted. "My parents were wealthy. Respectable. When they had time to notice me, they expected me to be normal. Respectable. They found it easier to believe that I was a drug addict. Emotionally unbalanced."
I winced. There were a lot of situations that could meet someone with a burgeoning magical talent. Charity's was one of the worst.
"They sent me away to schools," she said. "And to hospitals disguised as schools." She waved a hand. "I eventually left them. Just left them. I struck out on my own."
"And fell in with a bad crowd," I said quietly.
She gave me a bitter smile. "You've heard this story before."
"It isn't uncommon," I said quietly. "Who was it?"
"A… coven, of sorts, I suppose," she said. "More of a cult. There was a young man leading it. Gregor. He had power. He and the others, all young people, mixed in religion and mysticism and philosophy and… well. You've probably seen such things before."
I nodded. I had. A charismatic leader, dedicated followers, a collection of strays and homeless runaways. It rarely developed into something positive.
"I wasn't strongly gifted," she said. "Not like you. But I learned about some of what happens out there. About the White Council." The bitter smile returned. "Everyone was terrified of them. A Warden visited us once. He delivered a warning to Gregor. He'd been toying about with some kind of summoning spells, and the Wardens got wind of it. They interviewed each of us. Evaluated us. Told us the Laws of Magic, and told us never to break them if we wished to live."
I nodded and listened. She spoke more quickly now, the words coming out in a growing rush. They had been pent up a long time.
I felt some tension ease in me. Her reaction confirmed that I was on the right track.
"How did you know?" she asked.
"Just putting lots of little things together," I said. "Please, Charity. Tell me."
Her voice was rough, half strangled, as though the breath that carried her words had been tainted with something rotten. "I had some talent. It showed just before my sixteenth birthday. You know how awkward that kind of thing can be."
"Yeah," I said. "How'd your family take it?"
Her mouth twisted. "My parents were wealthy. Respectable. When they had time to notice me, they expected me to be normal. Respectable. They found it easier to believe that I was a drug addict. Emotionally unbalanced."
I winced. There were a lot of situations that could meet someone with a burgeoning magical talent. Charity's was one of the worst.
"They sent me away to schools," she said. "And to hospitals disguised as schools." She waved a hand. "I eventually left them. Just left them. I struck out on my own."
"And fell in with a bad crowd," I said quietly.
She gave me a bitter smile. "You've heard this story before."
"It isn't uncommon," I said quietly. "Who was it?"
"A… coven, of sorts, I suppose," she said. "More of a cult. There was a young man leading it. Gregor. He had power. He and the others, all young people, mixed in religion and mysticism and philosophy and… well. You've probably seen such things before."
I nodded. I had. A charismatic leader, dedicated followers, a collection of strays and homeless runaways. It rarely developed into something positive.
"I wasn't strongly gifted," she said. "Not like you. But I learned about some of what happens out there. About the White Council." The bitter smile returned. "Everyone was terrified of them. A Warden visited us once. He delivered a warning to Gregor. He'd been toying about with some kind of summoning spells, and the Wardens got wind of it. They interviewed each of us. Evaluated us. Told us the Laws of Magic, and told us never to break them if we wished to live."
I nodded and listened. She spoke more quickly now, the words coming out in a growing rush. They had been pent up a long time.
The White Council explicitly make it known to all mortal supernatural groups they run into, and go out of their way to make sure that the Laws are known.
They dont explain in detail why the Laws exist, just that they do, and what the consequences for breaking them are.
Like you said, White Council policy about these things are like 40K; they dont have to explain why time travel is bad, or the metaphysical nature of demons and their allegiance to make it clear that Outsiders = Bad, and that dealing with them will get you shanked.
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Yes they do have to explain that in 40K it is known that that is a terrible policy. The primarchs the beings that have no need and the metaphysical might to completely resist chaos corruption half of them fall flat out because they do not know what they need to defend themselves against. The idea that ignorance and violence are all you need to carry out a protective order is idiotic in the extreme and kind of the point of 40K in general.
On unleashing Tommy there is no Universe where Tommy doesn't immediately try to figure out who did this why they did it and immediately try to shank them. There is no Universe no Omniverse where the person who mind controlled him and his men do not at least get a cursory attempt to give them concrete shoes. So telling him what he's actually dealing with so he doesn't do something fucking crazy or far more importantly deeply unfortunate and or stupid is of vital importance.
1) Its not a moral stance, its a pragmatic stance.
We know very little about him, his history and his entanglements, and he's done enough dirt that he could taint us just by association. Never mind if the cops actually dig up something on him.
Its the same reason we have largely kept John Marcone at arms length in Chicago.
===
2) Many Winter Fae are born that way.
This guy did not choose to be born the son of a Mafia boss, but he chose to become a supernatural hitman and murder people for money. He could have walked away at any time.
He didnt.
Or to use another example: John Marcone.
I like Marcone as a character. Marcone has the excuse of having brought order to Chicago's criminal underworld, and he's filled the void that was left when the Red Court presence in Chicago was wiped out, keeping other nasties out.
And even Marcone palmed a Denarian Coin for power when the opportunity presented itself.
===
Furthermore, Winter generally risk no legal blowback from their activities. This guy does.
I will repeat it, because you seem to forget: The man's crew murdered a senior police officer recently.
Thats literally a legal land mine waiting to explode in some unfortunate person's face, given how US police departments tend to respond to officer homicides.
One phone call from someone in the know to Andrews' squad, and he's all sorts of fucked.
And Im willing to bet that Sandra Marling knows it, since she essentially whammied his entire organization, from the boss down.
I dont want us anywhere near that mess if we can avoid it.
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