Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I would normally tie break, but this is important and self confidence is just so obviously better that I don't know why people are arguing against it.

Edit: Good I don't have to.
 
@BronzeTongue is the demon the Fallen wiki incorrect because it says that breaking the terms of a pact on the demons end will cause The Pact to fail and my bad not just intelligence, intelligence plus law or academics if you need a basic history of entering contract with people you don't trust so you add a bunch of don't fuck me clauses. Let's not assume our main Circle mate and person with a God who made contract with another incarna is incapable of maneuvering a basic contract.

Maybe. This is what I was working off of:

As befits their Faustian nature Demons are a lot more free with what they can give to others (in exchange for their devotion) than what they can do for themselves or regular allies. Specifically:

😈 😈 😈

😈 😈 😈

P.S.: Sorry for the giant pics, but my copy of Demon the Fallen does not allow me to copy and paste.

An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence sure, but presumably the build rules that go through how pacts work would mention the terms and conditions rather than immediately skipping to the rules on casting while observed.


I went to check, and I assume this is the wiki page you were talking about. It does say the demon automatically breaks the pact if they violate the terms, but unlike most other articles on that wiki it cites the entire book instead of a page. Which is sketchy and something I can't validate because I don't own the book.

Even assuming that is correct and that the wiki/source book are just funky I'm skeptical of the ability of a law 0 exalt to outwit a demon built to be a temptress*. With her excellency she's stuck in mortal numbers for all the potentially relevant abilities.

You're acting like it's surprising that the demon thrall relationship isn't fair to the mortal. They're called thralls and not business associates for a reason. I'm not saying that it's destined to explode, but I think it's been adequately demonstrated that a relationship mechanically designed to be exploitative is in fact dangerous to get into.


* Just to name one simple element, Lash doesn't have to tell the truth about her abilities even by the terms of the wiki. Not mentioning ravaging, or the exact details of how it works would be trivial.
 
Can we give her hunter powers/merits? Since is getting her powers from a fallen Angel, hunters who make a pact with one are able to do so as well.
 
Making the gap a little wider, really think self confidence is objectively superior here to something that has been pointed out as being already a thing we can do anyway. We have potions of healing, the situations were the healing thing would be relevant is exactly where they would be used for in the first place, the merit is not interesting. The confidence, on the other hand, is extremely relevant to any situation, particularly for an Exalt whose Excellency is tied to how much temporary willpower she has.

[x] Yog
 
@BronzeTongue
I can get the evidence of absence thing. The thing is for them to not have to keep their pact while still being able to draw faith is against thematic of the entire world of Darkness for lack of a better word.
Not so much on the fairness front but rather on the it can't be that easy front no one not the antedaluvians not the incarna not Arch Mages no one gets to do something that would help them for free. So being able to just trick a mortal once and then just endlessly drain them of Faith wow would be cool but doesn't make sense because that's not how any spiritual entity in world of darkness works.
Also in the game demon the Fallen acquiring Thralls wouldn't be such a big deal if you could just trick them once and then endlessly take their faith from them.
One last thing I can totally see them skimming over the rules for pacts because most of the boons granted in a pact are one off and permanent it is the rare mortal with a high Faith potential who negotiates a contract I would assume. Never mind the fact that they're probably not thinking to Shield themselves from harm because "these guys are wishcrafters they're not going to hurt me or this is an angel they're not going to hurt me or this is my God they're not going to randomly try to eat parts of my soul right."
 
Vote closed. I can just post this right away since we are getting back to Molly after the interlude.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 6, 2023 at 1:59 PM, finished with 128 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Plan Graceful confidence
    -[X] A point of Faith can be converted into 10 freebie points. These points can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower. They cannot be used for improving Backgrounds.
    --[X] Willpower: 4 points
    --[X] Self-Confident merit: 5 points
    --[X] Regal Bearing: 1 dot
    -[X] Supernatural Awareness: Roll Perception+Awareness (Dif 7) to notice the spiritual feeling of a place (Places of loss, pain, etc.) and to notice nearby magical effects, demonic power etc. Just assume they always have a slightly weaker version of the Sight active.
    -[X] One point of Faith bestows one of the enhancements of the demon's apocalyptic form. To benefit from the enhancement, the mortal must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 6). Success allows the mortal to use the enhancement for a scene. The demon can bestow more than one enhancement, but he must spend a point of Faith on each. Lash can impart one of their high-Torment special abilities if desired at the cost of a temporary Torment point.
    --[X] Low Torment: Marble Flesh, +4 Soak Dice Against all damage
    [X]Plan Deaths Daughter: 3 Faith points
    -[X] 1 Faith: Marble Flesh, +4 Soak Dice Against all damage
    -[X] 1 Faith: Supernatural Awareness: Roll Perception+Awareness (Dif 7) to notice the spiritual feeling of a place (Places of loss, pain, etc.) and to notice nearby magical effects, demonic power etc. Just assume they always have a slightly weaker version of the Sight active.
    -[X] 1 Faith: 10 freebie points. Can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower.
    --[X] +4 Willpower: 4 freebie point
    --[X] +Spark of Life: 5 freebie points
    --[X] +Ability Aptitude: Occult : 1 freebie points
    [X]Plan Deaths Daughter and Demon's Disciple
    -[X] 1 Faith: Marble Flesh, +4 Soak Dice Against all damage
    -[X] 1 Faith: Supernatural Awareness: Roll Perception+Awareness (Dif 7) to notice the spiritual feeling of a place (Places of loss, pain, etc.) and to notice nearby magical effects, demonic power etc. Just assume they always have a slightly weaker version of the Sight active.
    -[X] 1 Faith: 10 freebie points. Can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower.
    --[X] +4 Willpower: 4 freebie point
    --[X] +Spark of Life: 5 freebie points
    --[X] +Common Sense: 1 freebie points
    [X] Plan Divine Scion
    -[X] A point of Faith can be converted into 10 freebie points. These points can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower. They cannot be used for improving Backgrounds.
    --[X] Willpower: 4 points
    --[X] Brawl 2 : 4 points
    --[X] Eidetic Memory : 2 point merit
    --[X] Stamina 2 : 10 points
    -[X] One point of Faith bestows one of the enhancements of the demon's apocalyptic form. To benefit from the enhancement, the mortal must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 6). Success allows the mortal to use the enhancement for a scene. The demon can bestow more than one enhancement, but he must spend a point of Faith on each. Lash can impart one of their high-Torment special abilities if desired at the cost of a temporary Torment point.
    --[X] Low Torment: Marble Flesh, +4 Soak Dice Against all damage
 
Arc 11 Post 19: Of Matters Fey and Fair
Of Matters Fey and Fair

7th of January 2007 A.D.

Essence Restored to full from Two Days of Fey Revelry

What do the deathless fey who know not time or want, who need not thread to spin into bright garb nor food to sate their hunger or drink to quench their thirst care for mortal limitations? So might a poet describe bright Avalon where Titania's court bathes in the light of her own presence. But as you watch the the games unfold, competitions in deadly earnest devolve into prank wars and swords finer than mortal forging being handed off as trinkets high nobles peering over the shoulders of artisans and offering advice, for they too had once walked that path for a day, a month, a century another word comes to mind: Ren-Fair, After all you had been to a few when you were little and it definitely feels more like that than the palace in Sanctuary with its bureaucrats and taxmen. Handcrafted paper flower crowns mix with whorls of ancient Celtic gold in the market, silk crowns are bartered for favors a thousand years old. Here a dwarf with a beard of living ivy pens a book of dreams, there a tooth fairy collects bottle caps like an array of rare coins.

Just in the time you've been here, which the Archive assures you is flowing concomitantly with the Earth standard, you have had to turn down an offer for a music recital from a nymph with the power to claim people's favorite songs and make them feel nothing at all over them only to them trade that enduring love, in skydiving for pixie kin who have to bind their wings to partake in it and explained the concept of an MMO to a knight in emerald armor of the kind that had once stood at the crossroads to challenge knights with lance and shield.

And yet for all the thought twisting entertainment there is a heaviness in the air as though each dance is the last before the dancers must ride to war, as though each game of chance is for the ultimate stakes. They do not know what the queen is up to, the satyrs, the centaurs, the talking lions with the faces of men on and on though forms and shapes uncounted, each more fantastical in garb and extraordinary in manner, but they can feel the darkness in you and they know that such as that is not oft invited to sup with the queen so they come, they ask, they question as far as courtesy and courage will allow. Knights beg a dance, ladies in daring not-quite-Victorian garb titter behind colorful ornate fans. You've even had a fellow with a red coat, a top hat and a bright golden scarf come up to you, his face familiar yet hard to place.

"What was..." you motion after the behatted fey, bemused as you catch the Archive in the corner with a drinking horn of frothing apple juice.

"Oh that's a Pete, Prince of Humbugs. He and his subjects are still new so you don't see them in the mortal word much yet," she explains.

"Wait that sounds familiar... P. T. Barnum became a faerie, a whole kind of faerie?"

"Not him, more the idea of him in the mortal imagination, the changed how mortals interact with art and entertainment, he turned mere carnivals to big top circuses." She drops her voice a bit. "He might be looking for a promotion considering what's coming, all of them are really. They want to know what's shaken up the queen enough that Kincaid is sitting over there trying to put a dent in her wine casks."

She spoke lightly but you have to ask: "He's gonna be alright, right?"

"Fey wine's only as strong as you want it to be, he's mostly doing it since it's impolite to approach someone busy at their cups," she explains, pauses. "Oh... they managed to co drag back Lady Laoise, not without great battle though, if the Enemy did not know before it does now, not like Fleeting Dawn at all."

For your part you'd only caught glimpse of the narwhal's back among the choppy waters yesterday of the lake yesterday, but the trap had been so smooth that it had scarcely agitated the rumor mill more than the waters. "What about the last one, Ellawyn?"

"That I think is for the others to handle in New York, either that or she's gone to ground is the desire to preserve assets had overcome its spite towards all that is," the girl explains, glancing up at the great stain glass windows of the hall, the panes slowly moving in a clockwork dance, the colors shifting into one another in a pattern of time keeping she had confided was, from experience 'too obtuse to be worth the headache of understanding'. "She'll want you to de-worm them tonight. Do you want me to mention the gift before or afterwards? After would have the advantage that your sorcery will have proven itself, but before would make it look like you thought ahead to the danger of the Enemy doing... something to the Lady. It's a gamble but one that could gain you greater regard and higher favor by."

"In public," you wince.

She seems sympathetic, but can only offer a shrug. "It's Summer, there's a reason they got the ringmaster and showman, panache is their shield and elan their sword."

When do you reveal the gift to Lily?

[] Before the exorcisms

[] After the exorcism


OOC: Hope I was able to do the strangeness of deep Faerie justice.
 
[X] Before the exorcisms

The reasoning for this is to give the appearance of protection from the things that might arise or fight. Rather than post exorcism that kind of in my mind seems like milking further debt from Summer.
 
it definitely feels more like that than the palace in Sanctuary with its bureaucrats and taxmen.
Didn't we also visit City of Fountains and City of Endings? I mean, we didn't have time to really immerse ourselves into the culture, but still.

Anyway, any chance of actually trading something here? Not anything of any real importance, of course, but I'm willing to bet some minor noble fae could probably trade us something for a mote of essence, or we could challenge someone to a craft-off for something silly and temporary, like who makes the best caramelized apple, or something like this.

And as to the scene itself - it was quite interesting, and yes, strange but not necessarily alien, far more familiar to modern human Molly than her own court is.
 
Didn't we also visit City of Fountains and City of Endings? I mean, we didn't have time to really immerse ourselves into the culture, but still.

Anyway, any chance of actually trading something here? Not anything of any real importance, of course, but I'm willing to bet some minor noble fae could probably trade us something for a mote of essence, or we could challenge someone to a craft-off for something silly and temporary, like who makes the best caramelized apple, or something like this.

And as to the scene itself - it was quite interesting, and yes, strange but not necessarily alien, far more familiar to modern human Molly than her own court is.

Yes, but the point of the phrase above is that Avalon does not feel like a capital, a place of government, it just feels like 'the Most Fey Place in Summer', or maybe 'the Place Titania likes to Hang out In'.
 
Yes, but the point of the phrase above is that Avalon does not feel like a capital, a place of government, it just feels like 'the Most Fey Place in Summer', or maybe 'the Place Titania likes to Hang out In'.
Yeah, that works in that case. Hmm, and what to trade... Get a promise of a circus show for younger siblings from the prince of Humbugs in exchange for something maybe?
 
Normal Summer Sidhe: Oh hey there's a party again! Woo!

Normal Summer Sidhe: Wait is that a Yama King

Normal Summer Sidhe: Wait is that Molly Carpenter

Normal Summer Sidhe: ...some immortals are gonna die sometime soon, aren't they... well, time to see what I can get out of the resident immortal-slayer!

I feel as if Summer has reacted quite... differently compared to, say, Maeve's court :p
Of course, Molly hasn't put her game face on yet, so I can see why they haven't fled for the hills yet lol
 
Normal Summer Sidhe: Oh hey there's a party again! Woo!

Normal Summer Sidhe: Wait is that a Yama King

Normal Summer Sidhe: Wait is that Molly Carpenter

Normal Summer Sidhe: ...some immortals are gonna die sometime soon, aren't they... well, time to see what I can get out of the resident immortal-slayer!

I feel as if Summer has reacted quite... differently compared to, say, Maeve's court :p
Of course, Molly hasn't put her game face on yet, so I can see why they haven't fled for the hills yet lol

It is worth keeping in mind you do not have Demonic Primacy of Essence with Summer. They do not get an inherent instinctual 'oh shit' reaction from being in the same room as Molly, all they know is what they heard.
 
Can we even do 4 exorcisms in quick succession? I think that they cost 5 essanse a piece. Unless this place is a dragon nest so we can recover as we work?

[X] Before the exorcisms
 
It is worth keeping in mind you do not have Demonic Primacy of Essence with Summer. They do not get an inherent instinctual 'oh shit' reaction from being in the same room as Molly, all they know is what they heard.
They don't hear the imperial march whenever we walk into the room.
No, but they only got three of the four targets and that you can do.
I hope that we hear some secrets then because we are going to want some wiggle room.
 
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