Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

There's so much firepower in Harry's party that it's not even funny.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

The last thing we need to do is stumble into Harry's stakeout blind and mess everything up.

Besides, we want the most we can get out of Summer. The benchmark is unrestricted favors. It would be good to get the symmetrical set.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

On a nemesis related note, does detecting something that's passively hiding count as an opposed roll? Nemesis is hiding when it's riding around in a host, but most of the time it doesn't seem like it's doing something active.

If that's the case, could we use invincible assertion to make something to find it?

Invincible Assertion (3 pt. Root Element)
This Splendor defines a rigid certainty and imposes it upon existence.
When used in an Adornment, define a specific roll of (Attribute) + (Ability) and a specialty that
it falls under. When the user makes such a roll, she cannot botch and cannot fail regardless of the
difficulty. No matter what, she always generates at least one success. If this roll is opposed by
another character, Invincible Assertion instead adds two bonus successes.
When used in a Fascination, define a specific roll of (Attribute) + (Ability) and a specialty that it
falls under. Under circumstances defined by the Splendor, such rolls cannot fail in its presence,
and always generate at least one success. If such a roll is opposed, it adds two bonus successes.
This Element may be incorporated into a Splendor more than once.
As long as it isn't contested Invincible Assertion gives you an auto-win. It's not perfect because any attempt to contest drops it to bonus dice, but as long as a particular instance of nemesis isn't aware it needs to do so it could be a significant advantage.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

On a nemesis related note, does detecting something that's passively hiding count as an opposed roll? Nemesis is hiding when it's riding around in a host, but most of the time it doesn't seem like it's doing something active.

If that's the case, could we use invincible assertion to make something to find it?


As long as it isn't contested Invincible Assertion gives you an auto-win. It's not perfect because any attempt to contest drops it to bonus dice, but as long as a particular instance of nemesis isn't aware it needs to do so it could be a significant advantage.

To find Nemesis you need more than mundane skills, you can't just find the thing by looking really really well at it.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
Yeah, but a lot of perception powers still require rolls to parse/use. I don't know what Titania and Mab roll to analyze supernatural critters, but as long as it's possible for them to detect it seems like this would be applicable.

For people who are not using dev codes from several versions of reality ago 'finding Nemesis' isn't one roll, it's an arc, the thing likes to set up false trails as Titania said last update. In the course of said investigation some skill checks are going to need more than one success and others are indeed going to be opposed.
 
She is afraid the exorcism will hurt them... she is afraid it might kill them... Titania does not understand her sister at all, the thoughts chase each other though your head as you grasp the crux of the conflict. She does know about Halloween, all of it even that you can remove the interloper from him hosts, but she thinks Mab risked her daughter's life in allowing you to work the spell.

"Not since the days of Arthur..." Titania trails off, the muscles of her jaw unclenching almost imperceptibly. "Very well, child of the line of kings daughter to a knight of repute, I shall hold you to your word. You know the limits of thine power you bear better than I." From her tone it's clear as day she does not wish to know it.

Well, I think I've confirmed that if I were Fae it would be Winter. When I compare our meeting/negotiation with Mab at this, Titania seems so... unreliable/newbie/unexperienced when for all the reasons she shouldn't be.

If at the end of all this she doesn't give us what's worth at least as much as Mab gave us in exchange for Maeve's exorcism and information on infiltrators, after we save four of her most important nobles, I say fuck Summer (aside from Lily and Fix) and only deal with the much more reasonable Winter(lol).

At least we'd be more comfortable interacting between dark creatures like the Winter Fae.
 
Well, I think I've confirmed that if I were Fae it would be Winter. When I compare our meeting/negotiation with Mab at this, Titania seems so... unreliable/newbie/unexperienced when for all the reasons she shouldn't be.

If at the end of all this she doesn't give us what's worth at least as much as Mab gave us in exchange for Maeve's exorcism and information on infiltrators, after we save four of her most important nobles, I say fuck Summer (aside from Lily and Fix) and only deal with the much more reasonable Winter(lol).

At least we'd be more comfortable interacting between dark creatures like the Winter Fae.

Mab fails too due to her nature, you guys just haven't seen her. Take her efforts to get Harry as a Knight, she was so heavy handed about it that he almost killed himself to get out of the deal once he had been pressured into it. By contrast say she had send one of her more personally compatible subjects down to help him, ally with him, offer him good deals when he is in trouble and then... oops Friend Fey has to go serve on the lines to protect reality against Outsiders like the tragically noble warrior they are. We need you Obi Wan Kenobi Harry Dresden.

That is how Titania would have handled that is she wanted Harry, which to be clear she does not.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

This is not optimal, but leaving now is bound to make Titania even more suspicious in my opinion.
 
Well, I think I've confirmed that if I were Fae it would be Winter. When I compare our meeting/negotiation with Mab at this, Titania seems so... unreliable/newbie/unexperienced when for all the reasons she shouldn't be.

If at the end of all this she doesn't give us what's worth at least as much as Mab gave us in exchange for Maeve's exorcism and information on infiltrators, after we save four of her most important nobles, I say fuck Summer (aside from Lily and Fix) and only deal with the much more reasonable Winter(lol).

At least we'd be more comfortable interacting between dark creatures like the Winter Fae.
She is Fae. She cannot help but pay us what we are owed. It is part of their nature as much as an inability to lie or their weakness to silver. If she pays us with a different value than Mab it is because what we give her is something she values less than Mab.

And I do expect Summer to value what we are giving them less than Winter. Fighting Outside is Winter's primary purpose. Summer doesn't exist for that reason. To Titania this is less of a service to her whole faction. Worse, it's a service that will cause her significant pain as she cannot save everyone just as Mab couldn't save everyone.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

They got this, Molly getting Summer in her debt is a big win.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

We actually don't have better things to do, than trying to avoid pushing our luck with Summer even more.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

As I argued before, those three SHOULD be able to handle a mere stakeout.
Unless all three of them botch their rolls and Harry winds up burning down a city block or two, but that's life :p
 
An Offer Matched​
5th of January 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Titania knowing about all of Halloween speaks to either information sharing between the Courts, or Titania deploying significant intelligence gathering capabilities.
And it means she had a very good guess about what it meant when Molly showed up with the Archive.

She thinks Mab risked her daughter carelessly?
Thats a significant, fundamental failure of understanding on the part of someone who has known her sister for over a thousand years. Someone whose portfolio is the wisdom of the heart.

Especially for someone who, if she's aware of Molly exorcising Maeve, will be aware of other movements in Winter's command structure, including the other Nemesis infected Molly wasnt called to fix.

Wait, she doesnt want to know? In the Dresden Files, where knowledge is power?
Molly: Couldnt be me.

Kinda hypocritical to call someone out for disrespect while referring to them as hound. Not even Sir Hound. :V
And frankly, verging on discourtesy to a guest.
Of course, this being the Fae, its probably another test or probe.

I honestly think this is probably a situation where we need to extend trust to the New York crew.

There's some history there between the Archive and Titania.
I just dont know what.


I have to agree with Azais that this is a disappointing showing from the Queen of Summer, head of the only other supernatural superpower in the setting and Mab's delegated counterweight.
If this is an example of her normal day to day decisionmaking, then its a wonder the Court has survived so long.


Mab fails too due to her nature, you guys just haven't seen her. Take her efforts to get Harry as a Knight, she was so heavy handed about it that he almost killed himself to get out of the deal once he had been pressured into it. By contrast say she had send one of her more personally compatible subjects down to help him, ally with him, offer him good deals when he is in trouble and then... oops Friend Fey has to go serve on the lines to protect reality against Outsiders like the tragically noble warrior they are. We need you Obi Wan Kenobi Harry Dresden.

That is how Titania would have handled that is she wanted Harry, which to be clear she does not.
Point of correction:
Mab Did No Wrong(TM)

This is Harry you are talking about.
The dude who spent several years with a Fallen's shadow in his head and kept saying no. The dude who lives in a tiny basement with no utilities in the middle of the Midwest; he had no hot water. In Chicago winter.

The man has been betrayed or leveraged by every magical authority figure in his life since he was 10: his master tried to mind control him, his godmother took three favors off him, the White Council has(in his opinion)screwed him over several times and are still maneuvering him, the Summer Lady tried to have him murdered using his childhood sweetheart as bait.

He's precisely the sort of person to look a gift horse in the mouth, and look for the catch.


That Mab is fortright with him is part of the reason they've developed a mutual respect. Everyone who has managed a reasonable working relationship with him has had to figure that out. Pretty much everyone who has tried to bribe him, or to do the honeypot scheme has failed.

If Titania had tried anything like the strategy you described on him, it would have been an egregious failure.


Dresden arranged his own assassination because he got whammied in a time of weakness by a Fallen Angel explicitly using superhuman insight to cross the lines that are permitted to them, and making an Archangel take steps to redress the balance.
Mab was just a convenient excuse.


PS
Dresden came to her for the Winter Knight Mantle in canon.
She keeps offering it, but she's never actually pressured or bribed him to take it; the most she's come was saying that it wipes out any debts he owes Winter.

I mean, its not like she was unaware of Susan's....issues. Or that Mother Winter can make an Unravelling that would fix it.
She just didnt want to go that route.
Or maybe wasnt allowed, who knows; the Fae have rules.
 
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She is Fae. She cannot help but pay us what we are owed. It is part of their nature as much as an inability to lie or their weakness to silver. If she pays us with a different value than Mab it is because what we give her is something she values less than Mab.

And I do expect Summer to value what we are giving them less than Winter. Fighting Outside is Winter's primary purpose. Summer doesn't exist for that reason. To Titania this is less of a service to her whole faction. Worse, it's a service that will cause her significant pain as she cannot save everyone just as Mab couldn't save everyone.
According to the update, Titania thinks she values her senior subjects more than Mab values her daughter and heir.
So that might not be true.

Summer explicitly sends troops to the Outer Gates as well.
They are the battlefield medics that Dresden sees in Cold Days. This directly involves them, as much as it does Winter.


VOTE
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother


Gotta have faith.
And to remember to prioritize making that interdimensional phone.
 
Point of correction:
Mab Did No Wrong(TM)

This is Harry you are talking about.
The dude who spent several years with a Fallen's shadow in his head and kept saying no. The dude who lives in a tiny basement with no utilities in the middle of the Midwest; he had no hot water. In Chicago winter.

The man has been betrayed or leveraged by every magical authority figure in his life since he was 10: his master tried to mind control him, his godmother took three favors off him, the White Council has(in his opinion)screwed him over several times and are still maneuvering him, the Summer Lady tried to have him murdered using his childhood sweetheart as bait.

He's precisely the sort of person to look a gift horse in the mouth, and look for the catch.


That Mab is fortright with him is part of the reason they've developed a mutual respect. Everyone who has managed a reasonable working relationship with him has had to figure that out. Pretty much everyone who has tried to bribe him, or to do the honeypot scheme has failed.

If Titania had tried anything like the strategy you described on him, it would have been an egregious failure.


Dresden arranged his own assassination because he got whammied in a time of weakness by a Fallen Angel explicitly using superhuman insight to cross the lines that are permitted to them, and making an Archangel take steps to redress the balance.
Mab was just a convenient excuse.

Harry is very very good at resisting coercion, which is what Winter defaults to. Harry is also very bad at saying no to those he considers his friends. Make friends is what summer does, and I do not mean that in air quotes, what is how Summer works, they are the passion elemental. It is not about looking a gift horse in the mouth because the friend fey would be genuine and the request to join summer would also be genuine and based on present needs. Harry wants a place to belong and he has knight in shining armor tendencies on top of that, he would in a sense fit right in.
 
Harry is very very good at resisting coercion, which is what Winter defaults to. Harry is also very bad at saying no to those he considers his friends. Make friends is what summer does, and I do not mean that in air quotes, what is how Summer works, they are the passion elemental. It is not about looking a gift horse in the mouth because the friend fey would be genuine and the request to join summer would also be genuine and based on present needs. Harry wants a place to belong and he has knight in shining armor tendencies on top of that, he would in a sense fit right in.
I disagree.

Harry is very good at resisting manipulation, whether physical or emotional or otherwise. Justin DuMorne was pivotal in setting the tone for that, with his childhood betrayal. The Leanansidhe reinforced that as part of her perceived duty towards her godson, and with Lash in his head for several years, he got a lot of additional practice.

And frankly, he wouldnt fit into Summer either.

This is four years after Summer Knight; he bore witness to uninfested Summer Fae members of Aurora's Court helping Nfested Aurora plot the muder of their Summer Knight, betray a changeling who trusted them, kick off a war between both Courts, and then almost sacrifice said changeling. Aurora was Nfested; the rest of her followers were not.

That kind of loyalty above principle is largely alien to him.

Not to mention the random, self-centered pettiness out of Summer like Titania geasing Lily and Fix, subjecting them to discomfort to prevent them helping him in pursuit of her ongoing grudge.
Harry wants a place to belong, but there's a lot of prices he wont pay; see his...disagreements with the Council.

Giving Summer that much control/influence over him would be anathema.
 
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I disagree.

Harry is very good at resisting manipulation, whether physical or emotional or otherwise. Justin DuMorne was pivotal in setting the tone for that, with his childhood betrayal. The Leanansidhe reinforced that as part of her perceived duty towards her godson, and with Lash in his head for several years, he got a lot of additional practice.

And frankly, he wouldnt fit into Summer either.

This is four years after Summer Knight; he bore witness to uninfested Summer Fae members of Aurora's Court helping Nfested Aurora plot the muder of their Summer Knight, betray a changeling who trusted them, kick off a war between both Courts, and then almost sacrifice said changeling. Aurora was Nfested; the rest of her followers were not.

That kind of loyalty above principle is largely alien to him.

Not to mention the random, self-centered pettiness out of Summer like Titania geasing Lily and Fix, subjecting them to discomfort to prevent them helping him in pursuit of her ongoing grudge.
Harry wants a place to belong, but there's a lot of prices he wont pay; see his...disagreements with the Council.

Giving Summer that much control/influence over him would be anathema.

That is a fair point he has seen the irrationality of summer first hand, that would put him off. Though I would not say loyalty above principles is alien to him, it is one of his core faults. How did he put it to Uriel 'me and my daughter will roast marshmallows among the ruins as the world burns'. Something like that, Harry has not had the Ghost Story moment of character development yet.
 
[X] Accept, between your father's faith, Harry's magic, Lash's cunning and Lydia's power you are sure the others will be fine and this does give you the chance to speak more to Lilly before you spring the gift on the whole court and her mother

The others should have their part decently handled.
 
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