Aren't the Lores in Demon: the Fallen intended to be Angelic knowledge before the Abyss? Like, if Lash has Lore of Flesh, she knows how biological organism work, as would creator of all things biological know?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- Crossover Fantasy
Splendor. 3 dot one, sadly. Form of Portentous Moonlight + Form of the Hearth + Emptiness + 2 Elongation of the Curse to make it permanent. An airlock with doors opening tk both reality and NeverNever. You could probably add so e safety features instead of Elongation of the Curse.
Making a gate to NenverNever, or afterlife isn't hard, and fully rule compliant. I am planning to do this this turn, if we can get resources
The medical stuff has me thinking about what exactly we could craft for things like this. Could we make a cancer-be-gone wand? A sauna that literally sweats sickness out of you?
I guess we could just us FCF medicine, but since they come back fine after being killed by something I'm not sure they'd have put as much emphasis on the sort of things we'd want here.
Not to steal Lash's gig, but there's plenty of sick people around.
Edit: I hope that gate you're thinking about isn't to the FCF.
Not to overuse the metaphor too much, but that seems like taking a IV port or open wound uncovered into sewer.
I guess we could just us FCF medicine, but since they come back fine after being killed by something I'm not sure they'd have put as much emphasis on the sort of things we'd want here.
Not to steal Lash's gig, but there's plenty of sick people around.
Prodigies can handle doing whatever mortal magic does. Making a permanent gate is crazy and would probably fit better as a splendor, but if we wanted something with roughly the functionality (and limits) of say Harry's nevernever spell or a vampire's natural crossing ability I don't see why a prodigy wouldn't work.
Edit: I hope that gate you're thinking about isn't to the FCF.
Not to overuse the metaphor too much, but that seems like taking a IV port or open wound uncovered into sewer.
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Lores are knowledge power and authority, but she still needs to contextualize what she sees well enough to do the thing outside of pacts which just work automatically, hence mechanically medicine.
What did this mean?
Cursing a god by using one of their worshipers. It does not work well at all since the conceptual link flows from the god to the worshiper.
This is sort of a wild idea, but the nevernever traversal and crafting stuff, in particular the potential splendors for the fey gave me an interesting thought, and the thread seems slow enough that it seems like as good a time as any to float it.
Supposing we do make those splendors of anti-possession/mind control/elemental earth, the first few will be basically priceless relics from the perspective of the fey.
What if we make one for Lily to satisfy our current informational deal, and then produce another 5 for the other queens as one batch. Potentially without the iron bit so we can make them at the 2 dot level.
Instead of trading for reagents or favors, we trade all of them to Mab directly with an additional promise not to undercut her ability to trade the 2 she doesn't need to the queens of Summer specifically. Doing that dramatically improves their value without actually requiring more material effort on our side.
What could possibly be worth this you ask? Remember our prior discussions about Arawn's domain?
If Winter can buy real estate then it can sell it too.
We don't know if it's actually possible to upgrade Lydia to celestial status, and doing it all at once would be lame anyway*, but I bet she'd get a lot of leverage out of having her father's old place back under her control.
It doesn't directly benefit us, but a stronger circlemate is still good and buying a divine realm feels like peak infernal behavior. Certainly way more interesting than getting 5 more favors to screw around with or something.
* My preference would be for it to open the door, and have the process of rebuilding her kingdom slowly increase her power. Maybe an additional charm set influenced by Winter's lingering touch on her homeland to start?
Supposing we do make those splendors of anti-possession/mind control/elemental earth, the first few will be basically priceless relics from the perspective of the fey.
What if we make one for Lily to satisfy our current informational deal, and then produce another 5 for the other queens as one batch. Potentially without the iron bit so we can make them at the 2 dot level.
Instead of trading for reagents or favors, we trade all of them to Mab directly with an additional promise not to undercut her ability to trade the 2 she doesn't need to the queens of Summer specifically. Doing that dramatically improves their value without actually requiring more material effort on our side.
What could possibly be worth this you ask? Remember our prior discussions about Arawn's domain?
If Winter can buy real estate then it can sell it too.
We don't know if it's actually possible to upgrade Lydia to celestial status, and doing it all at once would be lame anyway*, but I bet she'd get a lot of leverage out of having her father's old place back under her control.
It doesn't directly benefit us, but a stronger circlemate is still good and buying a divine realm feels like peak infernal behavior. Certainly way more interesting than getting 5 more favors to screw around with or something.
* My preference would be for it to open the door, and have the process of rebuilding her kingdom slowly increase her power. Maybe an additional charm set influenced by Winter's lingering touch on her homeland to start?
That's a very neat idea, but I am fairly sure that for metaphysical reasons, Lydia would need to be involved in the process of upgrading her to celestial status. Like, in such a proposed deal, I expect she'd need / want to be the one to gather resources for splendor making.
And yes, Lydia getting / claiming her own realm is a nice idea.
The proposed gate is to NeverNever. One of the next actions in upgrading Last Station on the path to making it a full Manse with all benefits of such would be to explore, secure and remake NeverNever around the place. Having a secure gate that allows travel from Earthside to NeverNever side would be very valuable for this.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
We simply do not have the motes needed to reliably use that charm the way you seem to want us to. When we go into a serious fight with a "boss" type enemy(s) and minions we spend essence on excellencies and other effects before even starting the fight. I don't think we have ever went into that kind of fight with a full tank.
Eating an undodgable attack because we don't have the motes to spend on defending an attack with a charm is going to happen. When that happens health is how you avoid death or crippling effects.
That's just not true. The best kind of defence, the most "perfect" kind of defence tactically speaking is the kind that doesn't cost you your limited resource pool.
I think people are misremembering the Arianna thing.
IIRC we actually took more damage than a "little scratch" before DP went back and changed the numbers but by then people had already committed to the vote.
On top of that I'm pretty sure more than a few people went for the "Fuck it Shintia now" vote because it was a dramatic response to Arianna's own taunt that played up the "who are you to question me" angle not because they thought it was tactically sound. Some people just thought it was a cool response after what she said to Molly so they voted for it.
Hopefully Tiffany is not evil and stupid enough to deliberately fail in healing periodically. That's certainly a path to high torment. If she limits herself to 1 patient per week or something like that, it would still result in a waiting list fairly quickly.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Which is why the City Still Stands is a great perfect defense. Those kinds of overwhelming uncountable damage attacks tend not to happen more than once per arc.
- Location
- Germany
I think the best she could do would be to apply her mundane skill in medicine for most people and only truly heal people with a good Faith-potential to get herself up to 4 or 5 Pacts Background quickly and have a decent Faith-regeneration.
Healing everyone who comes to her would draw too much attention far too quickly.
Just being a good doctor rather than a miracle-healer for most of her patients can't go hard into torment, I hope.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We have access to a lot of off grid people with medical problems at the last station, but people voted not to invite her.
It might be enough to have her conduct the final exchange, but I don't see a reason to exclude her from reagent gathering in either case.
Okay, I was just asking because the nevernever covers a lot of different places and depending on how you made it there could be different issues.
Tangentially related, but can we actually make a manse? Holden explicitly nukes that in the FAQs, and I don't recall a house rule on this. Might have just missed it though.
Yeah, the reason we reacted like that is because we took like half our health track in damage from an unblockable attack. You can see an artifact of that in how the damage line is pitiful but the next narrative but has Molly worrying about her ability to survive another strike like that.
I'll agree that perfects don't make regular defenses obsolete though. They're reflexive, so you can apply them in context based on what's happening, allowing us to save them for AoEs or perfect attacks, and the strategies they enable are more synergistic than they might initially appear.
The easiest are the perfect soak charms. By RaW if we were playing this at a table we wouldn't need to choose to activate the chant until after we saw the attack roll. I'd argue that translated to a quest Molly should be able to choose to activate this sort of defense based on how solid a hit feels. High soak makes the mote efficiency of our defensive scheme higher because we can more accurately choose what needs to be blocked outside the obvious.
WStW helps with multi-attacker active defense issues. 1 + essence level dodges to use as we please across the turn for 2 motes and a reflexive action means we can selectively target the most dangerous attacks and save our active defense/soak for the their most penalized multi attacks.
CCI is second worst in this regard, but stuff like using soak for adds while we go full attack against a boss that can't hurt us for a turn would leverage both.
BME is the one the synergies the least with any other kind of defense. It's better for a ranges fighter trying to kite people.
Sorry to piggy back here, I just wanted to point out that while the dice on any given specific exchange can't benefit from both at once, tactically there are options that benefit from both.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We have been told that we can't open a calibration gate to our hell from earth because it is too far away. But that leads to the interesting question of where calibration gates from our kingdom would lead that is so far from earth.
- Location
- Germany
By WoD setting probably to the Yama-Hells.
Not sure if that applies here though.
- Location
- Estonia
If it works it's not alternative, just medicine.
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It's not a perfect defense. It doesn't act anything like one and the tactical application is very different.
1) CSS doesn't stop us from being wounded, which has combat penalties. If something is pushing us to the brink of death the penalty build up will be an issue.
2) It doesn't stop perfect attacks. Someone with one can just burn down our health track
3) It can't be used multiple times, or at our discretion. We can't arrest a death spiral until it kills us, regardless of what happens in the meantime.
- Location
- Germany
To be fair, most people won't almost kill us and then just leave us be.
Real chance that a serious enemy will take the last health-level too.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Perfect defense are a staple of paranoia combat as conceived by Jon Chung in response to how stupidly deadly Exalted combat is. Mostly because that world is full of Exalted. But even Jon Chung that tireless advocate for paranoia combat admitted that Infernals and Luners properly built can get by without perfects.
Of course none of that was using the ExVwod system, but I have gotten the impression that WoD is far less deadly than creation at least if you are an Exalted.
Of course none of that was using the ExVwod system, but I have gotten the impression that WoD is far less deadly than creation at least if you are an Exalted.
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Vote closed.
It isn't specific to the Arianna fight though, it has been the case from the beginning and has never changed, the reaction to any attack getting through has always been *Shintai now* in this quest.
Arianna as was written in the beginning is still a good example of why having perfect defenses is better than bigger health track, because penalties kick in when you reach that point, and without a perfect defense, you are fucked from the get go due to them, while perfect defenses means you don't have them in the first place, the problem is the unstable equilibrium created by the penalties, which makes any loss tend to lead to easier subsequent losses.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Which is why I advocate for The City Still Stands. It provides the needed security blanket to stop that sort of panicked reaction without draining our essanse pool and making about half of our charms a waste of XP.
It requires the voters deciding to accept the bad situation and not try to remedy it right there right now, really not sure it would be a good security blanket, better than just some more health, but there is a reason the game of perfect defenses at all costs is nicknamed *paranoia combat*.
In this particular case, there is also the fact that Dragonparadox is the one that decides if Molly would use the perfect or not, depending on what is happening from her point of view and not our fears, so it doesn't make the rest as obsolete as you think, nor is it that likely to lead to as much wasted essence as if we were the one in charge of it, because it isn't controlled by the voters tendency to overreact. Plus the fact that one perfect, even the costly one, is still less ressources used than popping shintai.
Well, it has lost now and we got one more Ox-body, so we'll see what happens in the next big fight and if, like I fully expect, we still go shintai the very second Molly bleed, we'll have a stronger base to argue for finally taking something that would actually reduce that.