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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Do we want to be stealthy, or do we want to stand up and take ownership of this clusterfuck?
On one hand, i feel that we should march in the open, we did this, we made this happen, we should stand for our actions.
But, i really don't want to stand with the general, i very much prefer for us to be the shadow, he unseen, the unheard, but still felt.

I have no idea where either of the choices will go.
 
The Laurent said:
I think the first one still might be the better choice... but, like.

I do think we need to her danger rating up a few degrees based on what we've seen. Not danger in power, that was never in doubt, but danger in the sense of, "Holy shit, this is basically just proto-fascism." Like, it's remarkable that Ling Qi has managed to accomodate herself to her as well as she has, because the differences in their Ways seem only to grow starker the closer one looks.
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I think it only really echoes 'proto-fascism' insofar as like in the 19th century preceded the twentieth. The forging of a national identity through revolution and martial force seems a lot closer to, say, revolutionary France or similar movements - brutal means, but with quite different aims distinct from the fascist states that would follow, which were all too fond of draping themselves in tradition and stolen heritage.

Xia Ren is a monster and a warmonger, who percieves the world through the lens of violence - but she is a general, an instrument of the state, not the state itself. Like all of her generation, she is ultimately a reaction to the malaise of the Hui, and its up to people like Ling Qi and Cai Renxiang to create a world where that reaction is no longer necessary.
 
I do not think any choice is any safer from Deep Waters than the other. Yeah, Darkness is their theme, so they might use it against us if we skulk. But the same way Ling Qi can be caught in the light if Deep Water's counter attack pushes back the General. We don't know how that fight is gonna go yet; initial clash looked promising, but DWs is an archivist of the forbidden stuff, surely they have mean nasty tricks up their sleeve.

With this out of the way, what should Ling Qi do on the battlefield where her usual tank + debuff machine schtick doesn't work? I'd rather go for stealth in that case.
 
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Xepheria said:
I think it only really echoes 'proto-fascism' insofar as like in the 19th century preceded the twentieth. The forging of a national identity through revolution and martial force seems a lot closer to, say, revolutionary France or similar movements - brutal means, but with quite different aims distinct from the fascist states that would follow, which were all too fond of draping themselves in tradition and stolen heritage.

Xia Ren is a monster and a warmonger, who percieves the world through the lens of violence - but she is a general, an instrument of the state, not the state itself. Like all of her generation, she is ultimately a reaction to the malaise of the Hui, and its up to people like Ling Qi and Cai Renxiang to create a world where that reaction is no longer necessary.
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No, it goes further than that, honestly? I would have agreed with that interpretation, or at least seen it as plausible, before this update where we see more into her, "One people, one Empire" spiel.

I don't think she's going to be trying to seize the mantle of leadership or something like that, just to be clear.

I do agree that she doesn't drape herself in traditions, so Futurism is in some ways a more fitting comparison.

But I don't agree with the idea that her already culturally genocidal "reaction" was in any way necessary. Overthrowing the Hui was quite necessary, but it's been several centuries since then and no indication that she's just been sitting in a corner doing nothing and contributing nothing to the mindset and culture of the new regime/government/etc.
 
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We're the little person trying to push change while titans clash and observe all around us. It's not against our nature. It's literally what we're doing in the summit, corralling people more powerful than us towards change. We appealed to Shenhua to do this, and she said yes, under the pretext of testing her daughter. To do that, we went around the powerful AS to go do so.

We're actively influencing the decisions of Cyans, Indigos, and Violets here while small, using sincerity and ambiguity to make them think, "Yeah, this is what I want" or "This is reasonable. It would benefit me". Skulking unseen until we cash in the big payday has been what we've been doing the whole summit until we end it, and people turn back and notice that "Huh. Why did I agree to do this?" and notice that they've been had, but are okay with it. Cao Chun literally noticed this and said this.

Our job here is literally to bear the sword, not join the fight. We're still little and small, but just this simple act is using our little power to effect great change.

[ ] She would skulk as was her wont, her nature. In the boiling mist and the burning labyrinth, she would be as a shadow, a voice singing unseen.
 
It is interesting how this situation is making me think about the Bloody Dream again. Feels like there are some overlapp, in how LQ has choosen to try to direct a Greater Power even if she still is so small comparably. And one again she will need to make a choice in how she acts during it.
 
Oh, this was a juicy chapter!

I kind of like part's of both options, but I also hate parts of both options ...
yrsillar said:
[ ] She would soar, one spark among the conflagration. Today she was a voice of fire and steel, better to embrace that.
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-Soaring is good!
-'One spark among the conflagration'/ 'One pebble among the landslide' that now buries the fucker who messed with us ... very nice!
-A voice of fire and steel? ehhh okay maybe not?
-Better to embrace it? Fuck no!

yrsillar said:
[ ] She would skulk as was her wont, her nature. In the boiling mist and the burning labyrinth, she would be as a shadow, a voice singing unseen.
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-Skulking? Yea okay we can do that.
-Her nature? Eh ... that feels like LQ's is making herself cheap again.
-Being a shadow in the midst of destruction? We did that against brother darksong (and needed help from the hidden moon) ... could work.
-a voice singing unseen? Not bad, not great, but I take it.

With that said, I like option 2 better ... but only slightly. Going to wait for more arguments to vote.
 
Ling Qi's Way is very much on theme here, in a battle between tradition and progress she's the voice of renewal and a little bit of both. In a sense Ling Qi and her Way is not diametrically opposed to Meng Delun, he too loves what she wants and admires in his appreciation of the Emerald Sea's culture. Maybe sometimes she should be the voice of fire and steel, especially when the traditional lashes out in stubborn revenge. It'd probably impress the General to see her match her Cai's way too.

But renewal also emerges from tradition. I wonder if perhaps Ling Qi couldn't also be the voice within the culture saying maybe things aught to change, and that tradition can be preserved in another form. Offer that we and the Meng clan will carry on this ten thousand year of dream, if Meng Delun lets us and doesn't stand in our way in building something new. There's enough people in the Empire and Cai Shenhua's Emerald Seas that are willing to cleave away at the old traditions of the province. Between these two forces I think there should at least be one voice singing a third song.
 
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[X] She would soar, one spark among the conflagration. Today she was a voice of fire and steel, better to embrace that.

time for skulking is over
 
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As stated before, both choices are dangerous, one isn't safer than the other. So this vote isn't about that, it's about philosophy and mentality.

Do we want to make changes from the shadow? Unseen and don't minding our name being forgotten in the future? Or do we want to be a beacon and a figure others in the future can follow? A trailblazer

We can still do sneaking and stuff either way, it's part of who LQ is. But we can embrace both the spotlight and the shadows, make change happen, and actively push for it, to make the world as it should be.

Or we can stick to the shadows, changing slowly and steadily.

I'd like to remind you about what

Jiao said:
His shimmering outline paused in its fading and grew solid once more as he turned to look at her over his shoulder. "I have not the slightest idea what you are talking about, girl. Perhaps that boy knocked something loose with his fisticuffs?" he asked with a sneer. "But, perhaps as your esteemed elder, I might offer some advice on your chosen career."

Ling Qi blinked, taken back by the bitterness in the elder's expression. "... I would be most thankful, sir." She glanced at Xin, whose smile had faded.

"I know much of reformers, and you have chosen a miserable path," he said. "There is neither happiness nor satisfaction to be found as a shadow. Be mindful in choosing what you are forced to discard on the roadside of the Way." He had faded away by the time his last words echoed in the small stone room.
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As well as the Blood Moon dream.

The summit is as much LQ's project as it is Renxiang's, our choices so far have brought us here. Are we going to own it? or are we letting others get credit for it?
 
The Laurent said:
But I don't agree with the idea that her already culturally genocidal "reaction" was in any way necessary. Overthrowing the Hui was quite necessary, but it's been several centuries since then and no indication that she's just been sitting in a corner doing nothing and contributing nothing to the mindset and culture of the new regime/government/etc.
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To be clear, Xia Ren has her own traumas and history absent of the Hui themselves - and I'm not trying to justify the actions she directed at her own tribe. We know very little in the way of detail here, but it is absolutely not going to be pretty.

That being said, Xia Ren does as directed by the State, also called Cai Shenhua - a General and a tool of destruction, for tasks that such things. Xia Ren hasn't been inactive, but she also hasn't had outsized influence outside of her domain of the White Plumes and military matters.

Where we really have to worry is when Shenhua goes properly off the deep end, and the Revolution she embodies becomes something actively harmful for the people of the Emerald Seas. Before that, I think a tentative working arrangement is possible with Xia Ren, but after?

We'd better be prepared to extinguish the crucible.
 
Another possibility someone raised on Discord for what the choices would mean is essentially who we are "tangoing" with. As in, if she staysunder Xia Ren's umbrella we have to resist her "progressive, totalizing, homogenizing, etc" Way and try to not let it print on herself the Brand. "Stagnation is Death" and all that seared deeper and harder.

If she leaves Xia Ren's umbrella, the risk then is SWD's stagnant, reactionary Way will potentially cling to Ling Qi, who does find value in tradition and always has, who knows there are places other than the bright lights, etc, etc.

In either case it'd be, I think, more about how she keeps herself herself (and to what extent) against these two pressures, both of which are in many ways entirely against Ling Qi's Way, but both of which might have some resonance.

And again, the answer to which we could resist the incidental effect of more, and how we WILL be impacted would be... equally up in the air.
 
[ ] She would soar, one spark among the conflagration. Today she was a voice of fire and steel, better to embrace that.
 
Xepheria said:
To be clear, Xia Ren has her own traumas and history absent of the Hui themselves - and I'm not trying to justify the actions she directed at her own tribe. We know very little in the way of detail here, but it is absolutely not going to be pretty.

That being said, Xia Ren does as directed by the State, also called Cai Shenhua - a General and a tool of destruction, for tasks that such things. Xia Ren hasn't been inactive, but she also hasn't had outsized influence outside of her domain of the White Plumes and military matters.

Where we really have to worry is when Shenhua goes properly off the deep end, and the Revolution she embodies becomes something actively harmful for the people of the Emerald Seas. Before that, I think a tentative working arrangement is possible with Xia Ren, but after?

We'd better be prepared to extinguish the crucible.
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Speaking of her domain and military matters, Shenhua has recently acted to expand just how much that covers by creating new/expanded centralized armed forces as part of her overall centralizing drive.

So, uh. While this is not itself a sign that she's about to fall off the deep end, Xia Ren's capacity to act and put her stamp/brand on the military forces of the entire Emerald Seas is likely to only increase in the next decade+.
 
My wild interpretation of the voice singing unseen is someone changing the foundations of society. It's not that nobody notices the singer because they have no effect or because they're stealthy. The singer is unseen because most take their societal constructs for granted, unquestioningly, and that is what the singing effects. They change what concepts people use and thus they have a tremendous effect.

I agree with other interpretation of a soaring spark among the conflagration. It seems like a fairly standard take on a visionary or revolutionary, etc. Someone who becomes an icon and leads a movement of change in the society. This even fits the "among the conflagration" part since the Empire already has a bunch of people like that. I think it's basically LQ doing her play and acting the part of Tsu.
 
The Laurent said:
Speaking of her domain and military matters, Shenhua has recently acted to expand just how much that covers by creating new/expanded centralized armed forces as part of her overall centralizing drive.

So, uh. While this is not itself a sign that she's about to fall off the deep end, Xia Ren's capacity to act and put her stamp/brand on the military forces of the entire Emerald Seas is likely to only increase in the next decade+.
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We basically have an exact timeframe of when Shenhua will go off the deep end - when Diao Linqin dies. There's some cultivation weirdness between the two that allows Shenhua to act with a lot more consideration of consequences and feeling than her Way would allow, as a result of Linqin's own focus on empathy.

The Horned Legion is a concern yes - though sort of out of our wheelhouse. I suspect it'll be the remit of Gan Guangli and Xia Lin to try to shape from within CRX's circle.
 
yrsillar said:
The Crucible would devour them all, and let there be only one people, one DAWN, and one future. Tradition wields no swords, raises no shields, marshals no armies, fills no bellies, fulfills no lives. False comfort, aiding none.
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So, now we know without a doubt what Xia Ren is. Genocide of all that is different. The death of the dream of multitude, the death of the dream of the Nameless. The Twilight King would have approved of her.
We need to kill her as soon as possible. An abomination like her cannot be allowed to break through to Prism.
 
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[X] She would soar, one spark among the conflagration. Today she was a voice of fire and steel, better to embrace that.

My arguments:
• Communication and Multitude should have differing opinions. One view of the world, even if we agree on it is still bad.

• Becoming a "voice" sounds like something that would show us what it really means to the Polar Nations.

• It would be sooo COOL.
 
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I think we should soar. Ling Qi has a much more natural resonance with SWD than Xia Ren, so it'll be that much harder to resist him influencing our Way.
 
2 hours up, it's Go Time

[X] She would soar, one spark among the conflagration. Today she was a voice of fire and steel, better to embrace that.
 
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