Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

We could just offer to calm the weather in between the cities for Caravans.
We probably need to be pretty careful if using lord of the land to calm one of the giant storms, considering it's the interaction between the two storms that makes the plasma ring that keeps the city's and jungles warm and mostly safe. Small scale stuff is fine, but a large scale working might cause a bit of damage.
 
I really don't want to get into AP hell with our own hell.
Handling it is more of a demonstration that we are willing and able to do the job of ruling, ie resolving conflicts between our subjects. That we are not just a symbol. It's good that it's not an emergency.
But I don't want to do the job of ruling. We picked this hell because it is relatively low maintenance. We provide plenty of value just by being the bridge to the outside world.
 
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I think that the solution is charging those doing the shipping with having to pay someone to provide the life force. two things happen: one the route becomes less popular due the increased cost and the dragons get paid what the contract specifies.
 
I really don't see a need to do anything on the issue. It a local issue which could easily be rendered irreverent by Molly arrival. Or just making new lines, a Molly Clone running a drilling machine runs 10 times faster then it would normally. The fact they are consider just using machines to replace them, indicates they are not that important overall.

Lets not jump into issues that we know nothing about, nor do we have the stats to properly handle. Managing the wide scale political fallout of Molly's arival take priority.
 
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one the route becomes less popular due the increased cost and the dragons get paid what the contract specifies.
The problem with that is that lowered traffic damages trade and various industries that would ask for travel, and I am assuming that this agreement was made a long, long time ago, when the standards for travel where much different and the costs could be pain with reasonable difficulty. In this case, the spirits don't want to renegotiate because they don't see why they should since it favors them to demand more in changing conditions, but an unwillingness to change in a weakness of spirits even in the immortal fivefold courts it seems.
 
I really don't want to get into AP hell with our own hell.

But I don't want to do the job of ruling. We picked this hell because it is relatively low maintenance. We provide plenty of value just by being the bridge to the outside world.
That's fair. I still think we could and should do this, but we could go this way. Explain the issues with outside world, and how you have to mostly concentrate there, trusting them to keep ruling in your name.

I am personally interested in ruling, if not in minutae. Still mostly focusing on the outside, but still being involved in the Courts. Once we get Splintered Gale Incarnation (which is second on the list for me after CCoP), we should set one clone in the Courts permanently.
 
[X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, and the limited amount of time you can spend in the Courts, at a time, overall, and on this particular visit. Work out how to best utilize your time for the benefit of all, such as having prepared briefings for when you arrive. Explain your strengths, like personal leadership skills, Charisma, and ability to persuade people, and your weaknesses, like current inexperience with large scale politics and laws of the Courts.
-[X] Offer to talk to the Underwyrms. Perhaps you can persuade them to be more reasonable? They are also your subjects.

This seems like the best option we can provide as a middle ground, setting reasonable expectations for our involvement while still offering to help where we can with an honest assessment of our own strengths and weaknesses.

@DragonParadox, would any of our powers be able to provide life-force to the Underwyrms, or perhaps improve how much they get out of the life-force they are currently offered?

Alternatively, could we offer to summon the Underwyrms in battle and permit them a share of the lifeforce of those slain (and who are wicked enough to deserve having their souls eaten by a beast from hell) as payment, maybe even intentionally venturing out into, say, the Nevernever in "hunting expeditions" against evil entities to start paying them back immediately? Granted, this idea might be dead on arrival as I've no idea of the risk tolerance of these Underwyrms, who probably find their current gig as train guards much safer, consistent, and more reliable than any uncertain offer of rewards in uncertain qualities and quantities - and that in of itself is assuming we can even practically summon them, let alone in sufficient numbers and instances to satisfy even a majority, let alone all of them.

I wonder if perhaps, their image was subluminally inspired by our draconic friend at the Last Station - and if so, might they share some spiritual quasi-heritage with him? Assuming such, perhaps we could arrange for some pilgrimages to the Last Station in Chicago so that they can meet and pay respect to where the Underwyrms and their current roles as guardians of the Wyrm-lines might have at least in part (unwittingly) been derived from or inspired by, as a means of payment at least to more pious Underwyrms?
 
Underwyrms are the guardian spirits of the Wyrm-lines the transport tunnels, they guard the junctions from cave-ins water infiltration and most importantly things that tunnel in from the Labyrinth, the problem with this particular bunch is that they have been paid in life-force per cargo transfer and their route has suddenly become a lot more popular due to a shift in trade patterns between the City of Journeys and the City of Endings, but finding enough people to make a sacrifice of life would be uneconomical so the cities in question tried to renegotiate the contract, the underwyrms do not want to and so the Five are considering just getting rid of them. Robots should work just as well.
So basically the cities are considering... invading? Exorcising? Desecrating? The homes of these Underwyrms to save the proverbial buck? Welp time to do some Concussive Cranial Correction.
 
[X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, and the limited amount of time you can spend in the Courts, at a time, overall, and on this particular visit. Work out how to best utilize your time for the benefit of all, such as having prepared briefings for when you arrive. Explain your strengths, like personal leadership skills, Charisma, and ability to persuade people, and your weaknesses, like current inexperience with large scale politics and laws of the Courts.
-[X] Offer to talk to the Underwyrms. Perhaps you can persuade them to be more reasonable? They are also your subjects.

This seems like the best option we can provide as a middle ground, setting reasonable expectations for our involvement while still offering to help where we can with an honest assessment of our own strengths and weaknesses.

@DragonParadox, would any of our powers be able to provide life-force to the Underwyrms, or perhaps improve how much they get out of the life-force they are currently offered?

Alternatively, could we offer to summon the Underwyrms in battle and permit them a share of the lifeforce of those slain (and who are wicked enough to deserve having their souls eaten by a beast from hell) as payment, maybe even intentionally venturing out into, say, the Nevernever in "hunting expeditions" against evil entities to start paying them back immediately? Granted, this idea might be dead on arrival as I've no idea of the risk tolerance of these Underwyrms, who probably find their current gig as train guards much safer, consistent, and more reliable than any uncertain offer of rewards in uncertain qualities and quantities - and that in of itself is assuming we can even practically summon them, let alone in sufficient numbers and instances to satisfy even a majority, let alone all of them.

I wonder if perhaps, their image was subluminally inspired by our draconic friend at the Last Station - and if so, might they share some spiritual quasi-heritage with him? Assuming such, perhaps we could arrange for some pilgrimages to the Last Station in Chicago so that they can meet and pay respect to where the Underwyrms and their current roles as guardians of the Wyrm-lines might have at least in part (unwittingly) been derived from or inspired by, as a means of payment at least to more pious Underwyrms?

They are the guardians of the dragon lines of your soul. As for what you can do for them directly, summoning them in battle would not really work since you do not know how to summon at the moment, but you could say give them names to the White Council who could summon them in battle, though that does give the White Council an in leading to Molly's world-soul which she does not control, so it's trade offs.
 
In light of the information provided, I think a change to subvote is needed, because the wyrms have a point.

[X] Reveal the world beyond the Courts, and the limited amount of time you can spend in the Courts, at a time, overall, and on this particular visit. Work out how to best utilize your time for the benefit of all, such as having prepared briefings for when you arrive. Explain your strengths, like personal leadership skills, Charisma, and ability to persuade people, and your weaknesses, like current inexperience with large scale politics and laws of the Courts.
-[X] Offer to talk to the Underwyrms. They are also your subjects, and perhaps you could come to some compromise.

Personally, I favor "the wyrms get robotic minions which fall under their command to lessen their workload, and receive reasonable and generous, but not exuberant payment " compromise.
 
The cities build the Wyrm lines, and the Wyrm.
Oh okay, so it's 'we made life, and now it's not convenient, so kill it and replace it with something that won't complain or talk back'? You see how that's worse, right?
Personally, I favor "the wyrms get robotic minions which fall under their command to lessen their workload, and receive reasonable and generous, but not exuberant payment " compromise.
They are asking for reasonable payment; same job same rates. The cities won't to change the deal to make more dosh.
 
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Also, consider metaphysics of the conflict. Wyrms are spirits of our soul body, living embodiments of our spiritual pathways. Replacing them with, even enspirited, robots, probably has some consequences. Supplementing them also has consequences, but probably better ones.
The cities build the Wyrm lines, and the Wyrm.
Oh okay, so it's 'we made life, and now it's not convenient, so kill it and replace it with something that won't complain or talk back'? You see how that's worse, right?

Fairly sure that's wrong. There are native leylines / dragon veins in our soul. Wyrmtrains go through tunnels, natural and artificial, that follow said lines. Wyrms are native spirits that guard dragon veins and were persuaded to guard the trains too.
 
Fairly sure that's wrong. There are native leylines / dragon veins in our soul. Wyrmtrains go through tunnels, natural and artificial, that follow said lines. Wyrms are native spirits that guard dragon veins and were persuaded to guard the trains too.
...so they want to violate the spirit-body of their world-goddess for the economy? Really not making me like these folks.
 
They are asking for reasonable payment; same job same rates. The cities won't to change the deal to make more dosh.
Economies of scale are rarely linear. Does it take one thousand times more work to guard 1000 trains passing through a tunnel in a month as it takes to guard one train passing through the same tunnel in a month? Likely no, and likely it takes at most ten times more work. Wyrms have a monopoly on the service they provide. Cities have alternative solution. Both sides have reasonable demands and positions, if you consider it. Or at least I can see this being reasonable disagreement on both sides.
 
Economies of scale are rarely linear. Does it take one thousand times more work to guard 1000 trains passing through a tunnel in a month as it takes to guard one train passing through the same tunnel in a month? Likely no, and likely it takes at most ten times more work. Wyrms have a monopoly on the service they provide. Cities have alternative solution. Both sides have reasonable demands and positions, if you consider it. Or at least I can see this being reasonable disagreement on both sides.
Except one has ownership of the area and is the native, having allowed the other to use the route for a nominal fee. Now the newcomers want to either evict or genocide the natives because the fee is no longer conducive to their economy?
 
...so they want to violate the spirit-body of their world-goddess for the economy? Really not making me like these folks.

Welcome to the world of industrialization with animistic spirits. The Underwyrms are enormously favoured by the present system due to economies of scale and new technology. The City folk would like to use those economies of scale properly without having to pay prices that were designed back when this line was used by wagon trains.
 
Except one has ownership of the area and is the native, having allowed the other to use the route for a nominal fee. Now the newcomers want to either evict or genocide the natives because the fee is no longer conducive to their economy?
Eminent domain is a thing. A compromise is possible, and that's exaclt what we as a ruler should be involved with. Both wyrms and city dwellers are our subjects, we should be looking for the good of them all.
Welcome to the world of industrialization with animistic spirits. The Underwyrms are enormously favoured by the present system due to economies of scale and new technology. The City folk would like to use those economies of scale properly without having to pay prices that were designed back when this line was used by wagon trains.
Yeah, I can see the issue. Definitely something to involve ourselves in as an authority. Make compromises, make everyone follow compromises.
 
Also, consider metaphysics of the conflict. Wyrms are spirits of our soul body, living embodiments of our spiritual pathways. Replacing them with, even enspirited, robots, probably has some consequences. Supplementing them also has consequences, but probably better ones.
It propably won't matter?

Not like Malfeas cared if you build something on him.
 
Eminent domain is a thing. A compromise is possible, and that's exaclt what we as a ruler should be involved with. Both wyrms and city dwellers are our subjects, we should be looking for the good of them all.
What eminent domain? This isn't a 'world government', it's a confederation of cities and I don't see an Underwyrm seat at the big table, so they're outside the cities. This is... hell best IRL comparison I have is the colonialist imperialism 'needed' for the Panama Canal. So, you know. Evil. Definitely by Molly standards, unless she's secretly been an Englishman from the 19th century this entire time.

If the cities don't want to pay the Underwyrms then they can invest in alternate transportation routes instead of invasion and genocide (because the Underwyrms will resist).
 
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What eminent domain? This isn't a 'world government', it's a confederation of cities and I don't see an Underwyrm seat at the big table, so they're outside the cities. This is... hell best IRL comparison I have is the colonialist imperialism 'needed' for the Panama Canal. So, you know. Evil. Definitely by Molly standards, unless she's secretly been an Englishman from the 19th century this entire time.

If the cities don't want to pay the Underwyrms then they can invest in alternate transportation routes instead of invasion and genocide (because the Underwyrms will resist).

Do keep in mind that it is Sesil who is sugesting they 'just replace the wyrm with robots' and from her level of frustration the others, especially Arte are not playing ball. Molly gets the sense that beating up spirits for not keeping up their side of the deal is relatively common, beating them up and banishing them because you no longer like the dead you are in is... marginal by the morals of the people in this room.
 
What eminent domain? This isn't a 'world government', it's a confederation of cities and I don't see an Underwyrm seat at the big table, so they're outside the cities. This is... hell best IRL comparison I have is the colonialist imperialism 'needed' for the Panama Canal. So, you know. Evil. Definitely by Molly standards, unless she's secretly been an Englishman from the 19th century this entire time.

If the cities don't want to pay the Underwyrms then they can invest in alternate transportation routes instead of invasion and genocide (because the Underwyrms will resist).
USA abandoning gold standard is also an analogy.
 
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