Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
BronzeTongue said:
Letting that thing eat a part of a fallen Angel seems like a bad plan to me. If they don't perfectly annihilate then we potentially get some really spicy leakage.

Broken Seeker isn't dumb either, he probably won't agree to eat an energy field larger than his head unless he thinks he can chew it down to something reasonable first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Depends on what Lash is, metaphysically.

If she is something with real power on her own she can at least barely use it through Dresden, so I'm not sure she'd be too big an energy-field for Seeker.

Still, I don't really want a Naagloshii with all the knowledge and social skills of Lash running around, even if we could be sure that he wouldn't get much power in that way.
 
Yog said:
Ok, and listen to me here, this is an insane idea that makes sense as a gamble IC. What if we get naagloshii to eat Lash? It gets Dresden out, and solves two issues with one effort. Ideally they'd annihilate each other.

Also, naagloshii is both right and so hilariously wrong here. It is right that at one point we'll cast off the seeming of humanity. It is so wrong in what that means. We are not a dream of elder days forgetting itself. We are a promise of new dawn, a heir to Creation in all its splendor.

I think it didn't actually see us personally yet. Felt us, sure, but not seen.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lash literally lives in Harry's brain, so that's a hard no already, but the implications of it being successful are even worse, whether or not Harry's comes out of it fully functional or not.

Best case, the Skinwalker comes out of it with the knowledge of a Fallen Angel to work with, which is almost infinitely more than what it currently knows.

Worst case, Lash has a new meatsuit and can act independent of her main Lasciel persona that remains trapped in the coin. Bad enough for that to happen, but once the other Denarians learn of the possibility, things suddenly get very, very bad for everyone on the planet.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I doubt it; their reputation is too universal and they all definitely answered to the Holy People here. They're also not really powerful enough to match what a Lunar should be after millennia to grow.

Trying to get all Lunars to willingly answer to someone other than maybe OG Luna would be more than a bit of a trial.

My initial thought is that this guy has seen the turning of ages before, and he knows at least a little of what happens under the hood. That doesn't necessarily mean he's fully aware of exalted bullshit though, just that he's seeing something emerge that follows a familiar pattern and can potentially make good guesses about it.

It's entirely possible he could know more, but he's a bit low on the rankings for me to totally trust that when he's stopping at the vague hint level.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They might be either a recreation of a concept, like how mantles might be recreations of exaltations in general, or lunar equivalents to infernals.

He definitely doesn't know fully what we are, or he'd probably be offering his services and mentorship already, for a chance of getting into good graces of a nascent Primordial.
BronzeTongue said:
Letting that thing eat a part of a fallen Angel seems like a bad plan to me. If they don't perfectly annihilate then we potentially get some really spicy leakage.

Broken Seeker isn't dumb either, he probably won't agree to eat an energy field larger than his head unless he thinks he can chew it down to something reasonable first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are probably right, and I think the second part of your argument might be used against Broken Seeker here. I am fairly sure it doesn't know that Harry is a denarian. And it wouldn't want risking eating some part of Harry's if there's a risk of angry Fallen interrupt.

@DragonParadox as far as Molly understands (for now, without the excellency), would attempting to consume a piece of the fallen stuck in Dresden be dangerous to a naagloshii and would said naagloshii have a perfect control to avoid consuming any part of the fallen in question while still consuming Dresden? And would the fallen have any say in the process?
 
Never believe the goal an outsider tells you is it's true goal.

I'm guessing there's something about Harry's temporary death that would allow them to work some manner of spell on him.
 
Yog said:
, and listen to me here, this is an insane idea that makes sense as a gamble IC. What if we get naagloshii to eat Lash? It gets Dresden out, and solves two issues with one effort. Ideally they'd annihilate each other.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're right, it's an insane idea.

For one thing, Dresden would be in range of the naagloshi eating. And given that the broken angels have shown very few problems to cannibalism, I don't think Molly would be a good friend if she let her friend gets eaten.

Secondly, I highly doubt they'd kill each other. They're both apex predators. They'll get tangled into a fight and the ones that win ate the other. And given Molly's luck, probably got a power boost, which is not something I'd ever roll for.
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
They might be either a recreation of a concept, like how mantles might be recreations of exaltations in general, or lunar equivalents to infernals.

He definitely doesn't know fully what we are, or he'd probably be offering his services and mentorship already, for a chance of getting into good graces of a nascent Primordial.

You are probably right, and I think the second part of your argument might be used against Broken Seeker here. I am fairly sure it doesn't know that Harry is a denarian. And it wouldn't want risking eating some part of Harry's if there's a risk of angry Fallen interrupt.

@DragonParadox as far as Molly understands (for now, without the excellency), would attempting to consume a piece of the fallen stuck in Dresden be dangerous to a naagloshii and would said naagloshii have a perfect control to avoid consuming any part of the fallen in question while still consuming Dresden? And would the fallen have any say in the process?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If I roll that with no excellency you guys would not get to roll it with excellency. Once something is rolled it cannot be rolled again without some new piece of information. You guys do not get to double dip on information just because you have excellency, same with any other buff.
 
I want to idly ask if the contract giver was smart enough to specify privacy.

If not, Broken Seeker should be rather willing to throw them under the bus.
He'd want Molly to have her attentions elsewhere.

Though we also should be able to use the crown on the recorded conversation if he doesn't want to answer.
Though not right now. We need essence.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
If I roll that with no excellency you guys would not get to roll it with excellency. Once something is rolled it cannot be rolled again without some new piece of information. You guys do not get to double dip on information just because you have excellency, same with any other buff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ok, I'll wait, I am fairly sure this would require a vote, as essence is rather tight.

The idea is that we tell naagloshii that even absent our inevitable intervention and revenge, the mission it has been given is still suicidal because in consuming Harry Dresden it would have to also consume a piece of the Fallen stuck inside of Harry, which is probably unhealthy for it.
LightLan said:
I want to idly ask if the contract giver was smart enough to specify privacy.

If not, Broken Seeker should be rather willing to throw them under the bus.
He'd want Molly to have her attentions elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The question to ask is - is the contract actually magically binding or is this a manner of honor of some kind?
 
[X] When Skinwalkers FAFO
-[X] <Insert appropriate Exalted social buffs here> Anyone want to remind me what those are in this situation?
-[X] "I have a counter-proposal for you, Broken Seeker. You don't mind if I use your name, I hope? Fixer just sounds so impersonal."
--[X] "Harry is a mortal, if one with a longer potential lifespan than most. You are immortal, barring violence or misfortune, such as the violent misfortune which will befall you should I lose my temper. I know you've done enough research since arriving in Chicago to understand the consequences of that. It's not like I've been discreet."
---[X] "So kindly fuck off back to whatever hole in the ground you call home and when Harry dies you can nibble on his corpse then. What's a few centuries to one such as you? Of course, should Harry die of anything but natural causes I'm going to assume you were ultimately responsible for his demise, as any good fixer could be expected to arrange."
----[X] "Think fast before you end up regretting what remains of your life."
 
Guys Lash can be redeemed, Broken Seeker is a maybe on that front from this conversation. Think this trough better please.
 
Dmol8 said:
Guys Lash can be redeemed, Broken Seeker is a maybe on that front from this conversation. Think this trough better please.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am not actually suggesting feeding Lash to it. Trying to redeem the Seeker is... an interesting idea. Something like "I will give you a year and a day to convince me we should be on the same side. During this time I will be trying to convince you to abandon your ways in turn. If, at the end of this time, I am convinced, I will step aside. If you are convinced, I will get you out of whatever contract you are under".
 
[] Make a counter-proposal
-[] Empathy excellency, and dump some water onto your head to trigger BSM
-[] "You say we should be on one side? Prove it. I'll give you a year and a day to convince me. During that time you will cease your usual activities that I disapprove of, and you will listen to what I have to say. You will let my friends go and swear not to touch them ever again. In turn, I will promise to listen and sincerely consider what you have to say and show me. If, after the year is over, I am convinced, I'll step aside. Perhaps join you, even".

Not sure what else to propose here, really. We can't afford to get Harry murdered. And yes, this is one more obligation. But we actually might have a shot at this.
 
Carrnage said:
Never believe the goal an outsider tells you is it's true goal.

I'm guessing there's something about Harry's temporary death that would allow them to work some manner of spell on him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's not actually an outsider. Sort of wish BS was an outsider then we would have a much easier time rallying support killing the thing.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Depends on what Lash is, metaphysically.

If she is something with real power on her own she can at least barely use it through Dresden, so I'm not sure she'd be too big an energy-field for Seeker.

Still, I don't really want a Naagloshii with all the knowledge and social skills of Lash running around, even if we could be sure that he wouldn't get much power in that way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, it depends on if she's a sub-soul or an impression. Last I checked the ruling was still that she's a part of the proper fallen, but that DP might have been thinking about changing that.

Yog said:
They might be either a recreation of a concept, like how mantles might be recreations of exaltations in general, or lunar equivalents to infernals.

He definitely doesn't know fully what we are, or he'd probably be offering his services and mentorship already, for a chance of getting into good graces of a nascent Primordial.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Or just convergent evolution; not everything has to be Exalted in a mask.

If he was a fallen Lunar I'd be curious about how the Holy people thing even worked, unless that was just a name for some attempt at their version of the solar deliberative. Still seems like this guy wouldn't be afraid of us if he was a millennia old Lunar. Solaroids are no joke, but we're not ready for a fight like that.

Would be funny if he was being "nice" because he's the mate to Molly's shard though. :V


Yog said:
I am not actually suggesting feeding Lash to it. Trying to redeem the Seeker is... an interesting idea. Something like "I will give you a year and a day to convince me we should be on the same side. During this time I will be trying to convince you to abandon your ways in turn. If, at the end of this time, I am convinced, I will step aside. If you are convinced, I will get you out of whatever contract you are under".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Redemption is great and all, but this doesn't solve our immediate conflict and that was clearly a throw away temptation line.

He's put enough effort into not fighting us that if simply leaving was viable he'd have done it by now. There's also the matter of time, he clearly can wait a bit but a year is a stretch on a contract this immediate.

It's also not nearly long enough for a guy like this to change, so I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish other than give him an excuse to dip in and out of our business while ruining our rep by association.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Or just convergent evolution; not everything has to be Exalted in a mask.

If he was a fallen Lunar I'd be curious about how the Holy people thing even worked, unless that was just a name for some attempt at their version of the solar deliberative. Still seems like this guy wouldn't be afraid of us if he was a millennia old Lunar. Solaroids are no joke, but we're not ready for a fight like that.

Would be funny if he was being "nice" because he's the mate to Molly's shard though. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If he was a lunar, he'd be Second Age Lilith equivalent pretty much word for word. Including "yeah, you stand no chance".
BronzeTongue said:
Redemption is great and all, but this doesn't solve our immediate conflict and that was clearly a throw away temptation line.

He's put enough effort into not fighting us that if simply leaving was viable he'd have done it by now. There's also the matter of time, he clearly can wait a bit but a year is a stretch on a contract this immediate.

It's also not nearly long enough for a guy like this to change, so I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish other than give him an excuse to dip in and out of our business while ruining our rep by association.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The issue is... I don't see any way out of this. We could try and lie to him using the fact that we are only ever bound by our honor, nor magic of the oath, to agree to meet us and Harry, but he'll require assurances and won't just walk into an ambush.
 
Let's propose him to murder his client to get him out of the contract: we should threaten him to pursue him endlessly, and to disrupt all his operations. We are near immortal in this age, he understands that metaphysically Molly is on the same level, he understands that Molly will be useful in the coming Apocalypse. So, he should weigh the gratitude of his client (something that politically or physically couldn't take on a powerful but young wizard) and the gratitude of his new demigod ally. Moreover, he should weigh the relevant animosity.

If he agrees, we will be able to check on our friends with the Crown and other tools for hidden or future harm that he can cause them, then we are free to kill him in our next meeting. (Or Molly follows through the deal, if he will need mystical oaths, and kills him after the client).
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
The issue is... I don't see any way out of this. We could try and lie to him using the fact that we are only ever bound by our honor, nor magic of the oath, to agree to meet us and Harry, but he'll require assurances and won't just walk into an ambush.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That doesn't make just any response a good idea though.

This is just shy of random flailing; it dismisses the actual forces and likely timelines involved to offer a tone deaf deal that doesn't actually help us.

Doing something just to do something can easily be worse than doing nothing.

In this case we should clearly act, but don't see how any actual advantage is supposed to come from your proposal.
 
Cavalar said:
Let's propose him to murder his client to get him out of the contract: we should threaten him to pursue him endlessly, and to disrupt all his operations. We are near immortal in this age, he understands that metaphysically Molly is on the same level, he understands that Molly will be useful in the coming Apocalypse. So, he should weigh the gratitude of his client (something that politically or physically couldn't take on a powerful but young wizard) and the gratitude of his new demigod ally. Moreover, he should weigh the relevant animosity.
If he agrees, we will be able to check on our friends with the Crown and other tools for hidden or future harm that he can cause them, then we are free to kill him in our next meeting. (Or Molly follows through the deal, if he will need mystical oaths, and kills him after the client).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not sure if the client dying would matter. Even if the contract is not magically binding, it's still a matter of reputation and reneging on the deal just because your client is dead is bad for business.
BronzeTongue said:
That doesn't make just any response a good idea though.

This is just shy of random flailing; it dismisses the actual forces and likely timelines involved to offer a tone deaf deal that doesn't actually help us.

Doing something just to do something can easily be worse than doing nothing.

In this case we should clearly act, but don't see how any actual advantage is supposed to come from your proposal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The year and a day idea is the best I have. In a year we, as a social exalt, will be able to get a f*ckton of brainwashing powers, including ones that he shouldn't have absolute protections against (perfect effects are rare) and devote a lot of AP to subverting naagloshii.
 
To make the deal he has to meet us, Harry and Lydia in the same location.

That's perfect to kill him then and there.

We just need a second group to free Alec and Izzy at the same time, from wherever his minions would be keeping them.

With Micheal as part of the second group I'd be optimistic that he could protect the victims from magical retaliation.
Though to beat several Skinwalkers quickly and without Molly being there, we might want some more support, maybe ask Lara?
 
[x] Plan counter counter.
-[x] Crown Question focus the current phone conversation. Question what weakness of Broken Seeker does Broken Seeker most fear being spread to the supernatural rumor mill.
-[x] Intimidation excellency, "Broken Seeker, you misunderstand the situation, I in my magnificence am willing to grant you a reprieve to live a bit longer." Exploit information from Crown, to threaten him with capitulation, or his weakness spread to four winds.
 
Last edited:
[X] Pretend to agree with the deal
-[X] Set up a meeting for as soon as Lydia is back in town, including Harry of course (also bring Mouse if he is willing)
-[X] Use the Crown to find out where he's keeping the hostages shortly before the meeting
-[X] Have Micheal leading the Jade Dogs (including our new, more experienced Whampire-Minion) attack the hostage-holding group, while we kill the Naagloshii himself.
--[X] If the time between now and Lydias return suffices, buy some proper weapons for the Jade Dogs.

I kinda hope that his desire not to mess with us is real enough to stop him from torturing our friends while he waits for Lydia to return, but DP has repeatedly reminded us that he's a patient old monster, so I hope so.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top