We where making something like 4.8 million a year before we switched resource dots.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
[X] Plan "full care"
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
- Location
- Germany
The idea that they could find out about our mind-fucking is kinda absurd, we are defnitly not pointing them in that direction.
Mostly because by now a lot of Chicago-supernaturals know that we are not a Wizard with mind-tricks, but a glowing something of great but usually very direct power.
If they learn more about magic they might even find out about the Laws, and so that it's very unlikely something like what actually happened could happen without the Wardens coming down on the perpetuator.
But aside from that, what I'm pointing at is not the pile of money, it's the certainty that more is going to come in, that we are secure for life, rather than a single windfall. We are not Tony Stark, but we could easily be.
Edit: Honestly, the story what happened with our little foray into dark magic is extremly unlikely and absurd once you know a bit about the magical world. It took Outsider-manipulation to make it happen and the miracle of having an Exaltation in exactly the right place to make it happen without further consequences to us.
Right now the only people who know are Harry, Ebenezer and Mab and I'm relativly comfortable keeping it that way.
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They seem to be upper middle class or a bit higher. The stepfather at least might well be able to recognize premium-class car.
My approach is to be able to openly provide Rosie financial security and independence. If her parents have further questions, that's what excellencies and our own parents are for.
The use of this approach is good because we are basically telling the truth. Yes, it's a shocking truth, but we can back it up without expanding it more or involving anything else. No need to involve cover stories or anything.
My approach accomplishes the same thing yours does, it just doesn't introduce the complications of hooking Rosie's parents into inconvenient truths or lies prone to complicating our lives.
Being able to "openly" spend lots of money in the sense that they know it's happening isn't an advantage. We can accomplish the same material tasks and not have to deal with them poking at our alleged material science genius lies or shitting bricks over magic and trying to grapple with the implications of that.
It's not about them finding out about it from someone else. You were advancing a "might as well" information sharing approach on sharing relevant info to avoid complicating lies.
In practice you're lying the same amount, but the place where you're drawing the line has more energetic consequences and follow up issues for us.
It's not a simpler truth, it's a lower quality deception.
I'd say yes... and technically there are living beings in WoD who can use it that way, revanants
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] Plan Mushrooms
Exactly. They dont need to know
Exactly. They dont need to know
As far as I can see the only big difference in our plans is whether we present Molly as rich - the Rosie part is essentially identical. The issues I have are:
1) Assumption that we move out when we are 18. That's not actually a give.n Our relationship with our family is much better. It's still possible, even likely, but not a given
2) The story you are presenting failling apart once it gets to what kind of housing Molly is going to have. We almost certainly want something that's well protected, has defined ritual, alchemy, and craft areas, can house multiple people, most likely be used for important meetings with old and powerful monsters. It's not likely to be an apartment, it's likely to be a manor, ideally sitting on a leyline, or even a dragon's nest if we can find it. With its own house god and probably hidden anti-air defenses. Ie not something that a middle class kid can afford at all. If Rosie wants to move in with us (and I think giving her an option of living on her own is important, we don't want her totally dependent on us, that's unhealthy), there's not way to explain this to her parents.
Exalteds everybody!
Of course, the very glowy but usually pretty direct power is a great way for us to hide that our specialty is closer to mind trick via socials.
Malfean stealth best stealth.
[X] Yog
You can easily buy a few thousand acre in the middle of nowhere, for a pittance. But what I am picturing is founding a town just outside of Chicago, city limits, for our minions and whatnot.
I'm a bit confused on this point between you and Yog, because it feels like you are both ignoring the lotto win thing with regards to how it influences the argument. Is it actually still on the table with Chicago Synthetics? Because nothing will draw more scrutiny into Molly's finances than the lotto win, so if that's an issue it should be won ASAP before her finances get even more hinky.
If scrutiny really isn't an issue, (and it's arguable with Molly's social charms and supernatural edges it truly isn't), we can certainly wait for the bigger win. But if it is a concern, and we want to avoid scrutiny but still want the lotto win, we should have Molly blow a hundred dollars she got as a 'birthday present' on lotto tickets or something to give an interesting story for the newsies right away and take a lesser pot. It's the kind of income Rosie's parents would accept Molly 'wasting' on Rosie more easily because it's unearned.
In comparison to that level of scrutiny, how we handle Rosie's parents is more of a 'what is Molly's moral code' thing than a scrutiny of the mundanes thing.
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Answers later when Im back home, hopefully
====
Both current plans appear to commit Molly to moving out of the Carpenter household by January, which is when Rosie gives birth.
Which isnt something I approve of.
At the very least, its not the sort of decision we make in passing as part of a stunt.
They also link Rosie and Molly to Chicago Synthetics decisionmaking. And we dont need people poking at its threadbare cover; her husband works in either aerospace or the military industrial complex iirc, and is ranked highly enough to afford a home where the median home price is like three quarters of a million dollars. He's gonna have contacts and friends to look around.
Besides, while that might fool a casual onlooker, Rosie is Mrs Wilson's daughter.
She knows her qualifications, and what she would reasonably be capable of earning as a high school graduate without any other certifications. Molly, who is still in high school, showing up with an employment package and job offer from a new business is going to be fairly improbable to the lady. As improbable as Molly suddenly becoming rich.
Might as well just give her money directly.
It's just as plausible as the employment offer and exposes less of our business to the lady. And it gives Rosie the option of keeping a lower profile in the supernatural world than as the employee and roommate of the Infernal Exalt.
====
Both current plans appear to commit Molly to moving out of the Carpenter household by January, which is when Rosie gives birth.
Which isnt something I approve of.
At the very least, its not the sort of decision we make in passing as part of a stunt.
They also link Rosie and Molly to Chicago Synthetics decisionmaking. And we dont need people poking at its threadbare cover; her husband works in either aerospace or the military industrial complex iirc, and is ranked highly enough to afford a home where the median home price is like three quarters of a million dollars. He's gonna have contacts and friends to look around.
Besides, while that might fool a casual onlooker, Rosie is Mrs Wilson's daughter.
She knows her qualifications, and what she would reasonably be capable of earning as a high school graduate without any other certifications. Molly, who is still in high school, showing up with an employment package and job offer from a new business is going to be fairly improbable to the lady. As improbable as Molly suddenly becoming rich.
Might as well just give her money directly.
It's just as plausible as the employment offer and exposes less of our business to the lady. And it gives Rosie the option of keeping a lower profile in the supernatural world than as the employee and roommate of the Infernal Exalt.
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VOTE
[X]Plan Safety Net
-[X]You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
-[X]If pressed for details, state that you were bequeathed an inheritance when you were about to turn 18 and made some good investments
-[X]All Things Betray + Empathy Excellency + Subterfuge Excellency(if necessary) active: 2m, 1wp
-[X]STUNT: You are met at the door to the Wilson household by their twelve year old, who wordlessly smiles at you, before yelling over his shoulder "Mom! Molly's here!" You smile back at him as you step inside, tousling his hair with your right hand even as you adjust your grip on the file in the other hand. Your eyes meet those of the woman stepping out of the kitchen, her very face and body like an open book to you. "Mrs Wilson. Thank you for seeing me."
STATUS
All Things Betray: -3DC to Perception rolls
Empathy Excellency
Etiquette Excellency
RATIONALE
Came into an inheritance before you turned 18: Your Exaltation. Literally true.
No lies, just dont give any unnecessary details of your financial affairs.
Also, this approach gives maximum agency to Rosie and her mother and stepdad to work things out. Or not.
If they can live under one roof, its better for Rosie to reside behind a family-strength threshold as a New Talent, and better for her mother to stay involved in her daughter's life and that of her grandkid(s).
If they cant, she'll move out and we'll rent her an apartment.
Mechanically?
Molly can throw Cha/Man 3 + Empathy/Etiquette 5 + Excellency 8 = 16 dice at this without even a stunt.
Add a stunt, and it becomes 18 dice.
Approval voting
[X] You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
[X]Plan Safety Net
-[X]You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
-[X]If pressed for details, state that you were bequeathed an inheritance when you were about to turn 18 and made some good investments
-[X]All Things Betray + Empathy Excellency + Subterfuge Excellency(if necessary) active: 2m, 1wp
-[X]STUNT: You are met at the door to the Wilson household by their twelve year old, who wordlessly smiles at you, before yelling over his shoulder "Mom! Molly's here!" You smile back at him as you step inside, tousling his hair with your right hand even as you adjust your grip on the file in the other hand. Your eyes meet those of the woman stepping out of the kitchen, her very face and body like an open book to you. "Mrs Wilson. Thank you for seeing me."
STATUS
All Things Betray: -3DC to Perception rolls
Empathy Excellency
Etiquette Excellency
RATIONALE
Came into an inheritance before you turned 18: Your Exaltation. Literally true.
No lies, just dont give any unnecessary details of your financial affairs.
Also, this approach gives maximum agency to Rosie and her mother and stepdad to work things out. Or not.
If they can live under one roof, its better for Rosie to reside behind a family-strength threshold as a New Talent, and better for her mother to stay involved in her daughter's life and that of her grandkid(s).
If they cant, she'll move out and we'll rent her an apartment.
Mechanically?
Molly can throw Cha/Man 3 + Empathy/Etiquette 5 + Excellency 8 = 16 dice at this without even a stunt.
Add a stunt, and it becomes 18 dice.
Approval voting
[X] You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
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I'm going to take another swing here at explaining my rationale for this.
Spoiler'd because I noticed this got way too long after I was finished with it.
Also, I just noticed I neglected to actually include Rosie in the decision making process, which isn't ideal. Adding that now, and I think anyone with a plan in the pool should stick something to the front about getting a go/no-go from her privately beforehand instead of just making decisions.
[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Find some time to meet with or call Rosie privately and present this plan to her. The essential idea being to use our resources to make a mundane cover so she can focus on herself and her daughter in whatever form she ultimately wants that to take. Modify based on her input.
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
—[X] Set up evidence of a phone interview and a "second round" in person interview scheduled for the same week the conversation with Rosie's parents takes place in with an initial offer letter that includes the benefits package.
—[X] If necessary imply that someone in the office was sympathetic to her situation and is giving her a chance.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
Spoiler'd because I noticed this got way too long after I was finished with it.
We have a few options here. Technically speaking we could tell the truth, which I'll start with as a point of comparison.
The issue with the whole truth is that there are secrets we don't want them or anyone to know, and aren't helpful to them to hear. There are also things like what Molly did to Rosie that are absolutely relevant information they'd like to know, but aren't helpful for us or the situation to share.
Any partial sharing of the true details of the situation invites a great deal of attention to questioning all of the immediate history of the situation. We can deflect, but that's still a complication for us, and Rosie would have a harder time under the constant pressure.
From that it's easy to conclude we should do some lying, so we should examine the utility profile of the various levels available to us.
As partially addressed above, any supernatural adjacent lie has the issue of exploding scrutiny and adding considerable stress to the situation for everyone. Not untenable, but the benefit of being able to make a simple statement right now isn't worth the trouble of actually dealing with the fallout.
So that leaves us with mundane lies.
The plan @Yog is advancing is basically to throw some very hard to believe claims at them that we can only partially back up. We have the money and the business, but we didn't get them the way we would claim we did and can't actually do some of the things implied by the situation.
Since this is big, flashy, and pertinent to the situation our attempted deflection would likely itself become an area of focus. Areas where our abilities don't line up could easily become problems if they press on things like why we're running the business the way we are.
The whole point of this claim is to explain the money in a way that they'd except without pressing in an unfortunate manner, which makes this actively counterproductive to its own goal.
Something that's compounded by the fact that large amounts of money make people act strangely. We don't really know a lot about how Rosie's parents will take this sort of thing even past the other issues.
Will they try to horn in? Maybe claim it's for our own good because we're clearly irrational and aren't managing our futures correctly. If they think they've got emotional blackmail they could talk themselves into being fairly bold.
Or perhaps they're more reasonable, but they let it slip to someone they shouldn't have trusted while looking for advice - possibly by complete accident. Then we have to deal with people nosing around, perhaps with the knowledge to actually pick up that there's something interesting going on.
These are pretty pessimistic examples, but they illustrate that we don't know these people and can't really predict how they'll react.
Pretty much all possible approaches will have problems, and these particular ones aren't unworkable even in their worst reasonable permutation, but any reaction other than gormless acceptance adds a cost.
It's worth mentioning goals here at this point. My position on this is that our goal is to manage Rosie's parents such that we can assist her as freely as possible with the minimum negative impact on her life.
Their condition is a secondary element, it matters only insofar as it influences her's.
So our lie should be something that pushes their attention to places where we can stand up to scrutiny, that doesn't establish details that require involved support, that is flexible enough to adjust as we go, and positions them to be supportive of Rosie's life without making them especially concerned about how the sausage gets made outside of their immediate view.
This is the design goal of my plan. It provides a mundane explanation that shows plausible assistance for Rosie's problems without drawing attention to anything we can't explain or establishing high maintenance details. It's basic enough that we can adapt it to changing circumstances without contradicting ourselves fairly easily.
It bears repeating that we don't need to limit how we help to the confines of whatever we tell them. As long as the limited view of their perspective looks consistent we can do what we like.
There are potential issues, but to my eye this mechanism offers exactly what we want for the lowest price available to us.
The issue with the whole truth is that there are secrets we don't want them or anyone to know, and aren't helpful to them to hear. There are also things like what Molly did to Rosie that are absolutely relevant information they'd like to know, but aren't helpful for us or the situation to share.
Any partial sharing of the true details of the situation invites a great deal of attention to questioning all of the immediate history of the situation. We can deflect, but that's still a complication for us, and Rosie would have a harder time under the constant pressure.
From that it's easy to conclude we should do some lying, so we should examine the utility profile of the various levels available to us.
As partially addressed above, any supernatural adjacent lie has the issue of exploding scrutiny and adding considerable stress to the situation for everyone. Not untenable, but the benefit of being able to make a simple statement right now isn't worth the trouble of actually dealing with the fallout.
So that leaves us with mundane lies.
The plan @Yog is advancing is basically to throw some very hard to believe claims at them that we can only partially back up. We have the money and the business, but we didn't get them the way we would claim we did and can't actually do some of the things implied by the situation.
Since this is big, flashy, and pertinent to the situation our attempted deflection would likely itself become an area of focus. Areas where our abilities don't line up could easily become problems if they press on things like why we're running the business the way we are.
The whole point of this claim is to explain the money in a way that they'd except without pressing in an unfortunate manner, which makes this actively counterproductive to its own goal.
Something that's compounded by the fact that large amounts of money make people act strangely. We don't really know a lot about how Rosie's parents will take this sort of thing even past the other issues.
Will they try to horn in? Maybe claim it's for our own good because we're clearly irrational and aren't managing our futures correctly. If they think they've got emotional blackmail they could talk themselves into being fairly bold.
Or perhaps they're more reasonable, but they let it slip to someone they shouldn't have trusted while looking for advice - possibly by complete accident. Then we have to deal with people nosing around, perhaps with the knowledge to actually pick up that there's something interesting going on.
These are pretty pessimistic examples, but they illustrate that we don't know these people and can't really predict how they'll react.
Pretty much all possible approaches will have problems, and these particular ones aren't unworkable even in their worst reasonable permutation, but any reaction other than gormless acceptance adds a cost.
It's worth mentioning goals here at this point. My position on this is that our goal is to manage Rosie's parents such that we can assist her as freely as possible with the minimum negative impact on her life.
Their condition is a secondary element, it matters only insofar as it influences her's.
So our lie should be something that pushes their attention to places where we can stand up to scrutiny, that doesn't establish details that require involved support, that is flexible enough to adjust as we go, and positions them to be supportive of Rosie's life without making them especially concerned about how the sausage gets made outside of their immediate view.
This is the design goal of my plan. It provides a mundane explanation that shows plausible assistance for Rosie's problems without drawing attention to anything we can't explain or establishing high maintenance details. It's basic enough that we can adapt it to changing circumstances without contradicting ourselves fairly easily.
It bears repeating that we don't need to limit how we help to the confines of whatever we tell them. As long as the limited view of their perspective looks consistent we can do what we like.
There are potential issues, but to my eye this mechanism offers exactly what we want for the lowest price available to us.
Also, I just noticed I neglected to actually include Rosie in the decision making process, which isn't ideal. Adding that now, and I think anyone with a plan in the pool should stick something to the front about getting a go/no-go from her privately beforehand instead of just making decisions.
[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Find some time to meet with or call Rosie privately and present this plan to her. The essential idea being to use our resources to make a mundane cover so she can focus on herself and her daughter in whatever form she ultimately wants that to take. Modify based on her input.
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
—[X] Set up evidence of a phone interview and a "second round" in person interview scheduled for the same week the conversation with Rosie's parents takes place in with an initial offer letter that includes the benefits package.
—[X] If necessary imply that someone in the office was sympathetic to her situation and is giving her a chance.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
This is straight up not true. I do not commit to any timeline for moving out, and provide an alternative in buying her an apartment.
If we win it in our own name it would, but that's a bad idea.
I posted something abound it earlier, but it's possible in several states for any "legal entity" to collect on a lottery ticket without a requirement to report ownership. Maine in particular is good for this. We can have holding company collect and pass the money through several cutouts before it reaches us entirely legally.
The scrutiny of a lottery win isn't worth it without protection like this.
- Location
- Earth
Wouldn't this be Subterfuge? Since Molly is definitely shading the truth here.
IIRC Etiquette was mostly for other people in Molly's power class.
Your approach works, and has the advantage of simplicity, but does highlight Rosie's dependence.
I don't think Rosie getting a job necessarily compromises our cover on CS to any relevant degree.
We can play it off as sympathy, actual determination making Rosie get her shit together, or outright dumb luck. Stuff like that does happen, and we just have to be reasonably plausible rather than absolutely perfect.
As to the moving out question, it's worth remembering Molly as a character isn't happy with the idea of living at home. We had to roll willpower to act OOC for it, and things smoothing out doesn't mean all the issues are gone.
Even if it's suboptimal I think there's an argument for doing it anyway.
We're also not obligated to act to their expectations. What are they going to do, perform a bed check? Maintain a room and send our mail there, we can still use it to store stuff we don't want at home or in the tunnels if we don't actually stay there full time.
[X]Plan Safety Net
I'm more in tune with the lighter approach, than micromanaging her life. Just giving her the money to pay off our conscience, and advice as her friend. She's still her own person, with her own family and if she wants to be our hanger on, well, I don't think being buddy buddy with us is safer than the relative anonymity of staying with her family or the obscurity of joining the cauldron group; I wouldn't say no if she pressed, but I don't think it's in her or the childs best interest to be close to us with the sorts of enemies we're acquiring.
I'm more in tune with the lighter approach, than micromanaging her life. Just giving her the money to pay off our conscience, and advice as her friend. She's still her own person, with her own family and if she wants to be our hanger on, well, I don't think being buddy buddy with us is safer than the relative anonymity of staying with her family or the obscurity of joining the cauldron group; I wouldn't say no if she pressed, but I don't think it's in her or the childs best interest to be close to us with the sorts of enemies we're acquiring.
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Speaking of plausibility a more general piece of advice for you guys, you can bowl over the average mortal, hell you can bowl over even most strong willed mortals, what you cannot do is talk your way around systems. So if you sell someone a bridge in Brooklyn and they later investigate and discover there is no such thing the jig is up. What you most need is not a story that can stand up to immediate scrutiny, Molly has a particular set of skills to handle that (bullshitting, the skill is bullshitting
), what she most needs is a story that corroborates once the mortals in question are no longer in her presence and which can no longer be persuaded that the sky is actually pink.
- Location
- Germany
Which is why I'm in favor of telling them about magic.
In the moment we can convince them to go with that, and afterwards it's basically impossible for them to find out anything we kept secret, because the other wolrd is kinda tight-lipped around muggles snooping around.
Dad the defence-contractor or whatever might be able to look into Chicago Synthetics, but he certainly can't find out much about Exalted Molly besides her being kinda scary to the average being in the know in Chicago.
In the moment we can convince them to go with that, and afterwards it's basically impossible for them to find out anything we kept secret, because the other wolrd is kinda tight-lipped around muggles snooping around.
Dad the defence-contractor or whatever might be able to look into Chicago Synthetics, but he certainly can't find out much about Exalted Molly besides her being kinda scary to the average being in the know in Chicago.
Well, that basically says that Yog's plan is the one that works to best then, Uju's has the problem of us not having the inheritance he claims, and Bronzetongue's, while truer, will create questions when (not if, when, we are not really hiding it) it is discovered we are the one who created Chicago Synthetics.
[X] Yog