Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

by the way, @Yog , I was doing a read of all the Fivefold Court stuff and I wanted to ask something about the species, more specifically the interbreeding of the races. You mentioned explicitly both spider/human mixes and mushroom/dragon mixes, and I wanted to know what the limitations on cross-species mixing is, on account of no limitations just leading into eventual inevitable homogony.
If you want my opinion on the matter, what little it is worth, I would suggest expanding on the human adaptability (with how humans in fantasy settings seem to be able to cross with just bout anything), and allow humans to be the 'glue' that allows an amount, maybe in halfs and quarters? maybe something like this-
For a total of 6 to 9 part-human archtypes, that can have their own little communities without causing too much mixing and having everyone be 1/4 everything in various minor amounts. And that is not even taking cybernetics into account at all, or minor cosmetic mutations like unnatural skin, hair, or eye color.
Unless this was talked about and resolved already- I dont really have the patience to sift through 1500 pages on the fourm

Modus_Tollens said:

[X] Let them stay

I'm... not even tacking on preconditions. Give it a year and we are probably going to be personally reinforcing the Outer Gates.

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Making more trouble for ourselves doesn't exactly help though.

Why pay more for something than we have too, and give up the opportunity to MiM the nemesis bit without breaking our word to Charity?

[X] Bid them go

I'm definitely in the minority here but I think Molly's not ready for the big league. Let's keep it quiet for now.

[X] Bid them go

[X] Bid them go

[X]BronzeTongue

Current tally:

Thinking about it more Splintered gale incarnation it probably the best charm we could get next. It is basically the only way to get more AP per turn cycle. Since each clone would have it's own AP we could spend. Another 5x speed crafter even not as good as the Exalted Molly would make fixing the station or anything else we want done happen much faster.

And while not as super fast at learning as Exalted Molly, we just have them spend their entire AP pool on learning Path magic from Bob, or Martial Art forms. And quantity has a quality all its own, 8-15 AP with -4DC from various effect, would allow a clones train off of the xp cost to the max in basically a single turn cycle.

[X] Bid them go

Information security is very important especially early on. We don't need people realizing what we are until its way to fucking late. Denerians only being the most obvious example.

Also I hope we follow up on those akuma we gave to the Library Of Congress next Arc. Also need to start making Odins shit and address what he knows at some point. Also the New Hell thing... So many plot threads.
[X]BronzeTongue

Quick question for the power gamers among us, BronzeTongue's plan has us spend three? I think three, essence on theatrics right before we have to fight a walker, is that really a good idea? I agree that we should pop Hellscry to see if we can detect Nemesis in its hosts, but the rest seems a bit gratuitous.

Mab is right their, between her and Molly combat is not a problem.

We have 10 essence right now, and we need to spend 5 essence on the ritual. So the winning plan would put us at 2 essence going in to the fight, unless learning what Nemesis looks like under Hellscry Chakra counts as a secret, which brings us up to 4. Not great, but doable.

[X] Bid them go

Duquette7 said:

Quick question for the power gamers among us, BronzeTongue's plan has us spend three? I think three, essence on theatrics right before we have to fight a walker, is that really a good idea? I agree that we should pop Hellscry to see if we can detect Nemesis in its hosts, but the rest seems a bit gratuitous.

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Math's off.
===
Of that 3 Essence?
We're spending (only)1 Essence on theatrics: Intimidation Excellency

We're spending 2 Essence on Hellscry Chakra and All Things Betray to improve our ability to directly view the shard of Nemesis as we exorcise it. That's a priceless intelligence opportunity we dont want to squander.
I expect that we will get 2 Essence back just from seeing the true form of a Nemesis shard, so there's no net change.

I would rather have spent the Intimidation Excellency on a Occult Excellency, but I dont expect it to make much of a difference. So I didn't argue.

The spell isn't on our character sheet what are our odds of failing the ritual? I know that the odds are low, but this would be a terrible time to botch.

fictionfan said:

The spell isn't on our character sheet what are our odds of failing the ritual? I know that the odds are low, but this would be a terrible time to botch.

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Autopass.

Sapphire ritual of Exorcism
The sorcerer adorns a chamber with ritual implements reflecting the five elements, the sun, the moon, the stars, and the grave, then slowly focuses her Essence into a purifying mandala of absolute reality which splits apart any unnatural joining of matter and spirit.

System: The character enacts an hour-long ritual, then spends 5 Essence and makes an Intelligence + Occult roll against difficulty 8. Success ends any form of possession afflicting the ritual's subject, ejecting the possessing spirit or shade. Because of the ritual's length, its subject must usually be restrained in some way if they don't consent to the exorcism. This spell terminates possession by spirits and ghosts, mind and spirit-riding with powers such as high-level Animalism or Dominate, the Dragon-Blooded Charm Sense-Rid- ing Method, and so on. It immediately evicts demons from their hosts (whether that be mortal flesh or a graven idol), and can even separate the Bane from a fomor – although fomori suffer 10 dice of lethal dam- age as the Bane rips its way free of their flesh, rolled at a rate of one die per minute over the course of 10 agonizing minute

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Roll Intelligence + Occult at DC8.
If we roll success, we pass.
Occult is a Key ability for Molly, and we're spending 1WP for an autosux.

PS
The use of Tool Constructs might accelerate the time, too.

fictionfan said:

The spell isn't on our character sheet what are our odds of failing the ritual? I know that the odds are low, but this would be a terrible time to botch.

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First, we literally cannot botch, because we have Occult favored and ignore 1s. Second, it's an Intelligence + Occult roll at difficulty 8, so since we ignore 1s and our dice pool is 9, we have a 95.965% chance of success (rounded to 5 significant figures). Only, actually we have the extra 2 dice for being near an angry Mab with WHWH, so our actual dice pool is 11. So our actual odds are 98.023%. Unless we still count as being wet from the storm for the extra -1 difficulty from BSM, in which case our odds are 99.637%. Oh, and if the stunt gives us extra dice from the ritual, it's 99.031% dry and 99.869% wet.

… or autosuccess if we spend willpower, yes. We're spending willpower on this? Why? We don't need it.

Sapphire Ritual Exorcism added to the front page, in fancy lettering since Ancient Sorcery deserves it given what it is

powergoat said:

by the way, @Yog , I was doing a read of all the Fivefold Court stuff and I wanted to ask something about the species, more specifically the interbreeding of the races. You mentioned explicitly both spider/human mixes and mushroom/dragon mixes, and I wanted to know what the limitations on cross-species mixing is, on account of no limitations just leading into eventual inevitable homogony.
If you want my opinion on the matter, what little it is worth, I would suggest expanding on the human adaptability (with how humans in fantasy settings seem to be able to cross with just bout anything), and allow humans to be the 'glue' that allows an amount, maybe in halfs and quarters? maybe something like this-

Spoiler: Human Mixtures

Just going to refer to the other races as Spiders, Dragons, and Mushrooms for ease of reference:
Pure Human - 100% Human
Spider Humans - 50% Human, 50% Spider
Spidery Humans - 75% Human, 25% Spider
Mushroom Humans - 50% Human, 50% Mushroom
Mushroomy Humans - 75% Human, 25% Mushroom
Dragon Humans - 50% Human, 50% Dragon
Dragony Humans - 75% Human, 25% Dragon
'Orks' - 50% Human, 25% Dragon, 25% Mushroom
Radioactive Spider People - 50% Human, 25% Dragon, 25% Spider
Spore Weavers - 50% Human, 25% Spider, 25% Mushroom

For a total of 6 to 9 part-human archtypes, that can have their own little communities without causing too much mixing and having everyone be 1/4 everything in various minor amounts. And that is not even taking cybernetics into account at all, or minor cosmetic mutations like unnatural skin, hair, or eye color.
Unless this was talked about and resolved already- I dont really have the patience to sift through 1500 pages on the fourm

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Ok, so, first, on interbreeding: magic is a path to power many would consider unnatural. With magical assistance many things are possible. I mean, dragons are egg layers, mushrooms produce spores, and both spider-kin and humans are mammals (I am tempted to go back and make spider-kin marsupials just for the fun of it, but that's probably a stupid idea).

Secondly, on mixed races - the history of the courts is a long and storied one, and while you probably can find someone who is 100% human, almost everyone has a great-great-many times removed uncle or aunt who is a member of some other species. I.e. interbreeding is a spectrum. Which is why I only named the 5 distinct "base" groups, i.e. stable phenotypes to which hybrids gravitate.

The third point is that I deliberately tried to subvert at least some typical fantasy tropes concerning humans. Normally, humans are most populous (they still are, but spider-kin are close second), shortest lived (that's dragons), jacks of all trades (here they are ferromancy, i.e. technology and technomancy masters). I certainly didn't want them to be special-special in the court. Every race is special.

The malleability is more a function of magic, both in the air and deliberate rituals. I have to admit I didn't spend too much on actual mechanics of mushroom-dragon interbreeding. Though yes, malleability of human soul helps a lot.

Your suggestion is helpful, as typical mixes would probably have their own names, I agree, like creole and such. I would like to think and say that in many parts of the courts the specifics of one's ancestry wouldn't be commented upon or drawn attention to.

BronzeTongue said:

We have no reason to believe it will, and every reason to believe Molly knows what it will do to the target.

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I have no doubt Molly knows what it does... It's just - at least for knights, who are humans with mantles, Exorcism should work to remove the mantles. The same goes for banes and fomori. Mab and Maeve were human once, and are mantle holders. I am trying to resolve the paradox in my mind. @DragonParadox what does Molly think about this? How does this work and where does the delineation line lies?

EDIT: Or is Molly just good enouugh to banish one thing and not the other?

Yog said:

I have no doubt Molly knows what it does... It's just - at least for knights, who are humans with mantles, Exorcism should work to remove the mantles. The same goes for banes and fomori. Mab and Maeve were human once, and are mantle holders. I am trying to resolve the paradox in my mind. @DragonParadox what does Molly think about this? How does this work and where does the delineation line lies?

EDIT: Or is Molly just good enouugh to banish one thing and not the other?

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It depends on the inner workings of the mantle and how sentient it is. If it is just a thing that gives you power and influences your emotions it will stick, if it is a sentient being with its own goals, likes and dislikes rather than just amplifying those of the bearer it will be pried off. You could ask Mab how it works I guess but A) that is probably a sensitive topic and B) It's not like she is going to suggest you not do the thing if it turns out that it does take the mantle off.

Yog said:

I have no doubt Molly knows what it does... It's just - at least for knights, who are humans with mantles, Exorcism should work to remove the mantles.

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It's an aimed effect under active guidance; it removes what you target it to remove, and nothing else.
It's the difference between uninstalling a program/batch of programs, and just resetting/restoring the computer back to factory specs.

If you point it at a person under multiple effects(Mantle), it should remove what you ask it to and no further.

uju32 said:

It's an aimed effect under active guidance; it removes what you target it to remove, and nothing else.
It's the difference between uninstalling a program/batch of programs, and just resetting/restoring the computer back to factory specs.

If you point it at a person under multiple effects(Mantle), it should remove what you ask it to and no further.

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That is an interesting thought... can you pick and choose what you take off? Like if a Fomori is being spirit ridden by a vampire can you get rid of the former but not the latter

ends any form of possession afflicting the ritual's subject

If you had to take everything off it would have said all forms so I think that RAI is you can pick and choose and that does fit with the fact that this is sorcery, an intellectual exercise, that is adapted to each spirit, that is what the roll is for not how hard you hit.

DragonParadox said:

That is an interesting thought... can you pick and choose what you take off? Like if a Fomori is being spirit ridden by a vampire can you get rid of the former but not the latter

ends any form of possession afflicting the ritual's subjec

If you had to take everything off it would have said all forms so I think that RAI is you can pick and choose and that does fit with the fact that this is sorcery, an intellectual exercise, that is adapted to each spirit, that is what the roll is for not how hard you hit.

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Like I said, its ancient sorcery. Stolen from the Primordials.
By design its supposed to be a flexible tool in the skillset, where you are working in Reality's source code, instead of just hitting shortcut buttons.

It makes sense that it would be a targetable effect; if you want it to remove everything on a given victim, or just one of several effects, its should be the choice of the sorcerer.

EDIT
To expand on this, if you're confident that you can see/discriminate through all of the effects the person is under, you pick and choose what you target.

But if your Perception + Occult sucks, or you're not sure if you're missing something, you might just remove everything instead, just to be safe.

[X] Let them stay
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it

uju32 said:

Like I said, its ancient sorcery. Stolen from the Primordials.
By design its supposed to be a flexible tool in the skillset, where you are working in Reality's source code, instead of just hitting shortcut buttons.

It makes sense that it would be a targetable effect; if you want it to remove everything on a given victim, or just one of several effects, its should be the choice of the sorcerer.

EDIT
To expand on this, if you're confident that you can see/discriminate through all of the effects the person is under, you pick and choose what you target.

But if your Perception + Occult sucks, or you're not sure if you're missing something, you might just remove everything instead, just to be safe.

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It has to have "purge all" setting too, however. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to use it to remove effects of unknown nature.