Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Using subterfuge and occult excellencies, WHWH, BSM and CCC if possible, carefully leak the hints about a fake "Hunger controlling magic potion recipe", such as potion component purchase history and development notes, and the "sales deal about to go down" to make yourself more appealing as bait.
--Focus on the list revealed by the Crown's question

While I don't have a problem with the rest of your plan I do take issue with this. I feel like this is just asking for trouble. We are already appealing bait, I'm sure Laura made sure of that. Spreading fake rumors just adds more unknowns.

What if, thanks to our rumors, more enemy forces arrive than expected and overwhelm us? What if these rumors end up in the wrong ears and makes us more enemies based on things we can't even do? We don't even know Laura's full plan and your talking about modifying it. Don't spoil her trap by adding more complications.

And for what purpose? Making an already dangerous situation more dangerous?

No, this just seems too dangerous for too little reward.

Getting allies there might spoil the trap.

This goes to far in the other direction. While showing up with an army might be a problem, having one or two people to watch our back is probably expected. We're not supposed to know about the trap. Only an idiot (or someone supremely powerful) would show up to a meeting with a leader class vampire on their own home court without backup. Showing up alone would send the wrong message.

Besides, whatever this enemy is, it has Laura worried. That means it's probably powerful enough to threaten us. We should have at least some preparations.
 
While I don't have a problem with the rest of your plan I do take issue with this. I feel like this is just asking for trouble. We are already appealing bait, I'm sure Laura made sure of that. Spreading fake rumors just adds more unknowns.

What if, thanks to our rumors, more enemy forces arrive than expected and overwhelm us? What if these rumors end up in the wrong ears and makes us more enemies based on things we can't even do? We don't even know Laura's full plan and your talking about modifying it. Don't spoil her trap by adding more complications.

And for what purpose? Making an already dangerous situation more dangerous?

No, this just seems too dangerous for too little reward.
We don't know the reward. The intent is to make sure her idea (to bait the traitors) works, and works well. if it works well enough that we have to save her life in combat? That's a bonus to me, really. Plus, as I said, it's not a bad idea, actually, to mask some of our powers as alchemy and to lay some false paper trails, which could then later be used as foci to learn who is spying on us.
 
I still reckon they're more Neverborn than Yozi.
The Yozi and their demons just aren't so antithetical to existence and the fabric of reality.
Whereas the Neverborn and their servants are WRONG and entirely willing to take any and all approaches to achieve their goals.
I'd also ask how the Yozi got out of Hell when they are Hell.
Nah.
Raksha. Better thematic fit.
The Yozi wanted dominion. Raksha want to destroy Creation.
 
The intent is to make sure her idea (to bait the traitors) works, and works well.

"Hi friend! I see you're preparing to trap some rats. I took the liberty of changing the bait, without telling you, so it now attracts bears. Why do you look so angry?"

if it works well enough that we have to save her life in combat? That's a bonus to me, really

That's assuming its not our life that needs saving. We're strong, but not all powerful (yet). Who knows what kind of enemy will show up? Especially if you enhance the bait as you are proposing.

Plus, as I said, it's not a bad idea, actually, to mask some of our powers as alchemy and to lay some false paper trails, which could then later be used as foci to learn who is spying on us.

Maybe. Or maybe these false trails will just attract more spy's that wouldn't have noticed us otherwise.

I feel like Molly has enough on her plate already. Answering this phone call has already dragged us into a new problem, right before our big meeting with Mab. And now you're planning to purposefully attract more trouble. I just don't think its a good idea.
 
Seems like now would be a good time to call in the regional Warden Commander? It's not like Harry needs to be seen entering Thomas's shop, after all. He could arrive early and under a veil, if that's a concern.

We're good at killing shit, but he's got a bit more versatile tool kit, and this situation might get complicated.
 
Nah.
Raksha. Better thematic fit.
The Yozi wanted dominion. Raksha want to destroy Creation.
Raksha want primordial chaos. Neverborn want Oblivion, and I am fairly sure that's closer to what Outsiders want.


"Hi friend! I see you're preparing to trap some rats. I took the liberty of changing the bait, without telling you, so it now attracts bears. Why do you look so angry?"
Not change. Make easier to notice and follow.

That's assuming its not our life that needs saving. We're strong, but not all powerful (yet). Who knows what kind of enemy will show up? Especially if you enhance the bait as you are proposing.
Possible, but unlikely. Given our combat showings, I am fairly confident in taking on anything short of multiple lords of outer night with outsider support and at least getting away with Lara and our life.

I feel like Molly has enough on her plate already. Answering this phone call has already dragged us into a new problem, right before our big meeting with Mab. And now you're planning to purposefully attract more trouble. I just don't think its a good idea.
That's a fair assesment, and I agree that we probably need some breathing room (it feels like we are jumping from crisis to crisis), but we already agreed to the meeting, and, knowing what we know, I want to get the most we can out of it.
 
[X]uju32

I trust Uju to be a little more cautious than Yog in this case, as I think his plan will disrupt the trap already set by Lara and escalate the situation too much.
 
Even if we do nothing else, using a question to ask about who is connected to outsiders among Lara's acquaintances should be done. If nothing else then to learn that Dresden is.
 
Raksha want primordial chaos. Neverborn want Oblivion, and I am fairly sure that's closer to what Outsiders want.
Neverborn are from Inside Creation. So are Yozi.
Raksha/Hannya/Denizens of Whatever are from Outside Creation.
Very different origins.

Not to mention that the Black Court of Vampires are signatories to the Accords, and we know they are linked/created by the Neverborn somehow.
If they were Outsider linked, Mab would have never let them be a thing in the first place.
 
Not been following conversation properly, but if there is to be an attack, maybe it might be better to play bait somewhere other than Tomas's salon? I saw mention of bombs possibly being used, and those are typically regarded as being 'in-precise' in terms of collateral damage.
 
COMMENTARY
-Constantine Raith? Assuming this is his original name in this AU?

Constantine is from the Latin, which, combined with word of Jim that Lord Raith is a couple thousand years old, would make Lord Raith from Roman times in this AU, instead of being pre-Roman/Etruscan. Twenty five hundred year age range.
Possibly as old as three thousand years.


-Molly just realized IC that Lara Raith is the actual, de facto head of state and CEO of the White Court, and that her father is a puppet.

When you thought you were meeting a senior minister/assistant to the office of the head of state of a supernatural monarch, and it turns out its the actual president instead.
Also quite a thing to realize that said president is/was also a famous porn actor. :V


-It also means Molly's business manager is the brother of the head of the White Court.
Even if he's officially outcast at the moment?
That gives a certain appearance to people in the know at the moment.


-She also is on the trail to figuring out that Lara is a True Venator.
Important piece of data there.
Especially given the current subject.


-Traitor's death means that Lara thinks she has people who she expects to owe loyalty.


-The Forgotten Ones refers to either the Outsiders and their bosses at the Outer Gates, or the Old Ones of the Oblivion War.
Or both. So this might not just be White Court business, but Oblivion War business.
Which suggests that the Archive is either here, or Lara is possibly acting on her behalf as a True Venator. Or both.

Which might explain why the abruptness, if its not her idea.
And also why she's using Thomas saloon, since he's also a True Venator.


-Lords of the Outside?
I am getting the impression that the Forgotten Ones, Old Ones and Outsiders in this AU bear a rough equivalence to Unshaped or Hannya from Exalted.

While the Fae Courts, and most of Faerie, are supposed to be descended/equivalent/analogous to Shaped Raksha, or Raksha who were somehow crossed with Humanity and immigrated inside the Gates and were made its guardians.



-Called it on Madeline being murdered by an associate. Someone has been cleaning up loose ends.
Maybe Lara tumbled to Madeline's other activities several years early and her associates had her killed before she could be captured and interrogated. Sorta like what happened to Lucius Glau in Proven Guilty.

Or they are using her death as a political gambit to weaken the Raith's standing among the rest of the White Court in preparation for a coup. If we find where her body was found, where she's buried, or something significant like the clothes she was wearing when she was killed, we can tell who did it.


-Thomas' saloon is in the heart of the business district. In a major skyscraper.
That suggests that either Lara doesn't care about collateral damage, or she doesn't expect whoever she's baiting out to attempt to attempt anything large-scale.

Of course, note that Molly is assuming that Lara is using her as bait.
Molly could be wrong. There was no roll for that; she just made an IC determination
The fact that the meeting place is somewhere in a very notably populated building suggests that we aren't getting the entire picture yet.

They're not original Yozi, they're the Yozi-equivalents of one of the kalpa between Now and Creation. History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme, again and again and again. Why do you think YHWH doesn't want us scrying him and his paradoxical three-fetich self?
Thematics dont fit.
A single Primordial or Yozi wouldn't be able to keep all the other Yozi out. And there would be nothing stopping the other Yozi going out to make their own Creation with blackjack and hookers.

Whatever the White God is in this AU, he's not a Primordial/Yozi-equivalent.
 
Last edited:
Thematics dont fit. A single Primordial or Yozi wouldn't be able to keep all the other Yozi out.
The nature of Primordial powersets does, in fact, allow one Primordial to dominate the rest when the circumstances are right - when one Promordial force everyone else to play only by their rules, or not at all.

Marduk did it first, then Theion did it with a somewhat softer touch, and during Age of Sorrow everyone was shaking in their boots about Sacheverell waking up. Others could have done it, under certain circumstances. Hell, Ebon Dragon arguably did it in the RoTSE.
 
Nah.
Raksha. Better thematic fit.
The Yozi wanted dominion. Raksha want to destroy Creation.

Maybe if reality is enduring a millennia long Crusade from a Raksha keyed into eldritch horror as its theme.

Outsiders seem a tad one note to be Raksha, but then again the deep Wyld is abject chaos so maybe everything all at once is just horror now.

Maybe whatever the White God did was on the same scale as enforcing causality and consequences, whatever He did when setting up shop imposed what the Outsiders are on them in opposition to the now thoroughly shaped Fae.

Heck, maybe He cut infinity in half bringing the infinite structured story of the NeverNever into Creation and excluding the infinite chaotic Wyld.
 
Knowing what you now know who do you take to the meeting with Lara?
VOTE
[X]Plan Dance Partner
-[X]Lydia: Bring her raven familiar to stake out the outside of the building
-[X]Cyberdevils: Hack security cameras in the area
-[X]Bring a health potion or two if there's time to make one



RATIONALE
Lydia has a charm against mental fuckery, the organic Wits+Occult Exalt-native defense against hostile magic, and her anima power might have some applicability here with regards to spirits.

Besides, given that her father served for several hundred years as a senior Winter operative, and was a Breton/Celtic death god before that?
He probably has something to say on the subject of Outsiders and the Forgotten Ones as her Mentor 1.

Plus, if Lara brings Justine or anyone else with her and they ping Molly's occult senses, Molly will need some help subduing her non lethally. Since we know that Nemesis literally made Justine superhuman when it possessed her in Battle Grounds.
Superhuman as in break off a four foot section of steel hand rail with one hand.

Harry is Starborn, but Molly doesn't know that.
And he's a paramilitary commander for a different supernatural nation
Molly will look at the politics, and leave him out until and unless she thinks its necessary.

Thomas will be there.
But I dont think she'd expect Thomas to act against his sister.


@DragonParadox
You haven't updated Lydia's character sheet yet.
She should have gone from 9HLs to 11HLs, and Hunters Bolt should be on her char sheet
 
Last edited:
The nature of Primordial powersets does, in fact, allow one Primordial to dominate the rest when the circumstances are right - when one Promordial force everyone else to play only by their rules, or not at all.

Marduk did it first, then Theion did it with a somewhat softer touch, and during Age of Sorrow everyone was shaking in their boots about Sacheverell waking up. Others could have done it, under certain circumstances. Hell, Ebon Dragon arguably did it in the RoTSE.
To assert their claim to lead a whole conclave of Primordials? Yes; like you said, both Theion and Marduk did it.
To, as a single Primordial, exclude another group of Primordials from an area against their will? No.
Not that Im aware of anyway.

That requires a degree of overmatch that wasn't at all evident among the Primordials as a group.
 
Taking Harry with us is looking like a good idea.
Harry is a regional military commander for the White Council.
Lara is the White Queen of the White Court.

There are political complications from putting both of them in the same space. For both of them.
Harry already has people muttering about his loyalties as it is.
We dont need to make his life worse.

The only people I'd bring would be Lydia and maybe Michael.
But I dont this is in the purview of the Swords.
 
So, anyway, it is in our interest to actually lay false trails to support Lara's hypothesis of "genius alchemist discovered this one weird trick that controls the Hunger". It diverts attention from our actual potion recipes, diverts attention from our actual abilities, and lets us monitor those who try to monitor us (via the Crown, if nothing else). It's not just useful at the moment, it's useful long term, I think.
What concerns me about this proposal is that by supporting Lara's apparent mistake we might be tipping our hand to those who already know better. All it takes is one of the people Lara's hunting having a better understanding of Molly's power over the Hunger then Lara appears to, and this could go south real quick. If they already know it's not a potion, by trying to lay a back trail we would be tipping our hand to the ambush.

Lets not get cute here, all we need to do is show up to the party and wreck shit, let the operatives of the ancient conspiracy handle the web of intrigue they are weaving, rather then trying to throw our oar in without coordinating with the spinners, and risk misjudging how many layers of they know that I know that he knows there are.

[X]uju32
 
Last edited:
[X]Plan Dance Partner
-[X]Lydia: Bring her raven familiar to stake out the outside of the building
-[X]Cyberdevils: Hack security cameras in the area
-[X]Bring a health potion or two if there's time to make one
 
Even if we don't do anything else in my vote, please, please use the crown to check who the Outsider-connected people are in Lara's circle. We have an abundance of foci, and this is important. @DragonParadox how large is the filmography of Lara Romani and do separate videos count as separate foci?
 
Back
Top