fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Nice to see that responsibly is set up so shit flows uphill.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Well, that's me told off. Thanks and sorry!
- Location
- Terror Australis
That is incorrect, in addition to the current Winter Knight Mab's garden contains multiple mortals.
On the "statues" in Proven Guilty.
So she definitely keeps mortal humans there.Jim Butcher said:
So assuming Mab isn't an idiot, she didn't know that an Exaltation is designed to massively empower mortals, otherwise she would not have kept the probability warping mystic superweapon right next to a bunch of human prisoners.
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Eh, Dresden Files isn't always clear on that.
One demon turned out to be a ghost of a man who hated Harry, so whether all demons are Fallen, or it's just a single type of demon who are Fallen isn't completely clear. Not to mention, other cultures have their own form of demons
Also, remember that Satan isn't the supreme ruler of Hell, just a very powerful being in it.
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'Demon' is a vague category, one in which the being in Molly's head fits into. I mean think about the frog demon Victor Sells conjured? Did that thing look strong enough to have ever been an angel? Or for that matter did it look smart enough. The category broadly means 'malicious spirit from the darker regions of the nevernever' and yes that does mean that not everyone agrees on if a specific spirit counts as a demon. That is one of the reasons why the White Council does not come harder on summoning demons. Also while all demons are malicious not all want the same thing. You never really know who a demon is working for mortal or other, but in most cases once you get past the truly bestial they have more than one master and thus more than one goal in mind when encountered in the mortal world.
Also just to make things more confusing mortals can both bring forth demons, like the Nightmare, and basically become demons as in the case of the Akuma. This leads to a joke among the junior Wardens: What's a demon? Bad.
Also just to make things more confusing mortals can both bring forth demons, like the Nightmare, and basically become demons as in the case of the Akuma. This leads to a joke among the junior Wardens: What's a demon? Bad.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So the classification of what is or is not a demon or hell is more political and practical than metaphysical. Guess that means our eventual Kingdom and its inhabitants actually have a good chance of not falling under that label. Good to know.This leads to a joke among the junior Wardens: What's a demon? Bad.
So what will our Kingdom and servants eventually be classified as? Beyond stuff like "a realm in the Nevernever," of course. Something to wonder about as we watch until the political landscape eventually semi-settles around us, I guess.
That is not something Molly can tell since she does not know she will get a kingdom. In general though like most political labels it will be a matter of interests among the White Council and elsewhere. Not to say they will make a law about it that all wizards have to follow, the Council does not work like that outside the actual Laws, but they do have a common culture.
OK, looks like we are not going to poke the accords with phenomenal cosmic power yet. Bob Storytime it is.
After a certain point it's archaeology, not theft. And the point has clearly passed, as it had been at least billions of years, and likely "several universal resets with linear time no longer applicable" since the Age of Legends, as our question into the history of human evolution shows.
It can be argued that all fae mantle holders, or at least ladies and queens are slaves under the following definitions of the word slave:
The issue of child snatching can also be brought up.
Your quote disproves what you are claiming:
Harry is squarely Law 0, being unable to understand what the Accords imply or mean, and having to completely rely on Bob's cliff notes. Now, Bob is probably Law 3 or 4 (maybe 5, but that'll take evidence). But Harry very probably hasn't asked Bob the right questions.
This is your assumption. Current update indicates an intricate and detailed tiered system of involvement of mortals, with six distinct levels. It's likely that our actions are moving Murphy up those tiers. That likely implies changes in how she and SI are to be treated under the Accords. She definitely deserves / needs to read a copy.
All of those guys are either likely not fully human inherently or were changed into something else on arrival. The passage you highlighted specifically calls out the sisters as being made of living crystal now.
Setting that aside, Mab didn't have an exaltation in canon so her security was different. For all we know she changed things up once she acquired it. Assuming stupidity is the reason for everything is a mistake.
Winning Vote
Arc 6 Post 58: From Frozen Memories
From Frozen Memories
27th of October 2006 A.D.
Where Harry got his hot chocolate you are not sure, but it's the really good kind that actually tastes like chocolate not vaguely coca-flavore, powder, a good to match the cold clammy we weather than had lingered over the city most of the month. You'd call it a bad omen of Mab's coming if you weren't used to it. As is you take a comfy seat in the chair you like to think Harry had acquired with the money you had bullied him into taking and turn to the matter at hand. What is Winter really? How do they tick and how do you wind them, how do you stop them?
Asking the question that way had Harry choke on his own drink a little, but Bob does not seem surprised to hear you ask it that way. He's been watching you a little different of late. Admittedly it's not easy to read a lusty skull filled with the flickering light of wizardry, but you are good at reading people, as your excursion to Mac's showed. Which is of course when the drops the bomb as he is so wont to do:
"Winter is the guard at the Gates of Night, Winter is the Glacier holding back the tide that would end the world, where hearts of flesh would break those of ice endure."
"What...?" You and Harry say at the same time. You giggle, he looks dead serious.
It turns out this was something Harry did not know, even though it had been locked inside the head of his assistant for all the years he had Bob.
"I thought you knew," said the spirit of intellect to the wizard in the faintly aggrieved tone of one who has had had to say these very words a many times before.
The story he tells sounds improbable to you, though you cannot think of any reason why he would lie. Winter, he explains guards the Outer Gates, those the Seventh Law guards against, the boundary of the world and the front line of the world for existence and all the aspects of its nature directly or indirectly come back to this great charge. "Winter is the will of the world to live, no matter the price it has to pay in the doing, like a beast in a trap willing to chew off its own paw to survive, like a mother wolf eating the cubs who were not strong enough to survive the Winterfae understand no reason but survival and to survive they must grow stronger. Not to say they being savage makes you irrational, a lot of humans make that mistake and it's often the last one they make, theirs is the cold calculus of war in which no quorter can be given and none is asked. They will make tools of all who place themselves within reach..." the bale-light eyes swivel on Harry who looks uncomfortable for a moment.
"You alright in there?" he asks with a smile that does not reach his eyes. "Sounding a little Sith-y."
At that Bob rolls his eyes, lights turning end over end in the sockets. "Sorry I can't bring my usual comedy A game to talking about the war between monsters of reason and monsters of incomprehensible horror boss."
Monsters of reason... Something you had been wondering at suddenly makes sense. "You used to be part of the Winter Court didn't you? That's why you know so much about then? That's why Mab is after you?"
He sighs a puff of pale air. "I'd almost forgotten the other side of hanging out with the unfairly clever..."
"Hey! You sure you want those paperbacks you asked me for yesterday?" Harry asks, easing back into his seat.
"You're unfairly clever too boss, but I'm the unfair part," Bob proclaims cheekily. Turning his attention back to you he asks: "Don't spread that around OK? Not that just spreading around that I exist isn't bad enough, but with Mab there are always more degrees of worse.."
Remembering the man chained to the pillar in Arctis Tor, the Winter Knight, you shudder. "How us cruelty rational?" you demand. "That doesn't seem to fit with the whole primal force of nature..." you search for a word "Shtick."
Apparently you had found a funny one.
"Oh that's Summer's fault, well kind of," Bob settles down for a long explanation. "See nature isn't all red in tooth and claw and neither are people, empathy, trust, impulsiveness, even kindness all these are part of how things work, but at the gates all of them are a weakness."
You open your mouth to argue, but he cuts you off.
"They are a weakness because Those Beyond are not of the World, they win when they can trick you into thinking they are even for just a moment. But all the other stuff needs to be reflected as well, hence it is in the hand of Summer, Court of Passion and Unreason, those bound to life growing and changing, competing with itself rather than barring its teeth against the horrors of the night. Like draws to like and power to power, in time the summers get warmer and the winters get harsher."
"So the Summer Court is parasitic?" Usum asks, as intrigued as you are. Too enthralled in all this new lore you do not soften the question which makes Harry look at you funny, but you are hardly aware of it.
For his part Bob cackles at that one. "Summer is what contains Winter as the warm oceans contain the glaciers, after all if you asked Mab she'd tell you that she should command the whole of the world that it might better defend itself against encroachment and screw the touchy feely stuff. Speaking of touchy and feely and for that matter..."
"Aaanyway," you draw out the word as you reel things back in. "So you are saying Winter is cruel because it has been forged too well, as sword is still a sword no matter which edge you cut, that sort of thing?"
Even though Bob can't nod his eyes bobbing up and down serve much the same purpose.
"The Winter Court is rational in its execution, but suspicious in its priors and that informs their tactics, all things being equal they prefer servants to allies and they bait their hooks more juicily than the Summer court to make up for the sharp steel barb in there. Patience isn't so much a virtue in their line of work it's a necessity. You'll have been under the eye of some of their scouts, maybe even a test to see what you are made of."
"Like say a pride of malks down in Undertown acting aggressive?" you ask thoughtfully. It had seemed weird at the time, but you had chalked it out to fey cats having as little common sense at normal ones.
"That might be a way to prod you yeah and they will keep on doing it even it you reach some kind of agreement. Testing, sharpening others is how the Winter Court shows affection." Bob laughs almost wistfully. "It's hard sometime to tell the difference between their affection and thier malice and that's the way they like it so only the most claver stand at their side."
"That's not creepy at all," Harry mutters under his breath, though more than loud enough for Bob to catch it
"Weren't you listening, creepy is part of the point."
What does Molly take from his revelation?
[] Respect: As little as she likes the Winter Fey and as much as you hate the terror-monsters that are fetches she can respect them a little more for doing a task no one else does
[] Doubt: Why is it the task of winter in its cruelty to guard the gates? Where are the Angels? Surely if there is any task that is meant for the hosts of heaven it is guarding the universe against those who would unmake it
[] Fascination: This isn't the whole story, even Bob admits to not knowing everything on the subject. You want to know where all the missing pieces are. Then you will be able to make the judgement properly
[] Write in
OOC: Mab conversation after this and then the level up vote.
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- Location
- Germany
[X] Doubt: Why is it the task of winter in its cruelty to guard the gates? Where are the Angels? Surely if there is any task that is meant for the hosts of heaven it is guarding the universe against those who would unmake it
We have a right to know the mind of God and the purpose of His work, even if we stick to our promise and don't use the Crown to divine it.
We have a right to know the mind of God and the purpose of His work, even if we stick to our promise and don't use the Crown to divine it.
[X] Fascination: This isn't the whole story, even Bob admits to not knowing everything on the subject. You want to know where all the missing pieces are. Then you will be able to make the judgement properly
This is literally Molly's urge and one of her defining characteristics. Any situation where she doesn't know everything is one where she doesn't know enough, in principle at least, and might make a mistake.
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We can and should look into it, but we aren't owed an accounting of the white God's actions any more than anyone else is.
This is literally Molly's urge and one of her defining characteristics. Any situation where she doesn't know everything is one where she doesn't know enough, in principle at least, and might make a mistake.
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Based on what? I want to know as well, but I wouldn't say we have a right to anything here.
We can and should look into it, but we aren't owed an accounting of the white God's actions any more than anyone else is.
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- Location
- Taken by the hand to a land that they understand
[X] Fascination: This isn't the whole story, even Bob admits to not knowing everything on the subject. You want to know where all the missing pieces are. Then you will be able to make the judgement properly.
You know, I think I can guess why angels aren't used to guard the Outer Gates anymore. In the later Dresden Files books,
You know, I think I can guess why angels aren't used to guard the Outer Gates anymore. In the later Dresden Files books,
we learn that Maeve, the Winter Lady, has been corrupted by an Outsider artifact to be 'free' of the bindings of Fae, and she could freely lie and break her word. I think their plan in the book was for her to break whatever deal keeps Winter holding the gates, letting the Outsiders into reality.
My speculation is that was a repeat of another gambit the Outsiders pulled, against Heaven/angels. Hell (heh), they could've been responsible for the devil himself falling from grace.
My speculation is that was a repeat of another gambit the Outsiders pulled, against Heaven/angels. Hell (heh), they could've been responsible for the devil himself falling from grace.
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- Location
- Germany
We got that right when we picked up the Crown and with it the power to see what we want.
Choosing not to excercise that powers changes nothing about our path towards having the basic principles of the universe known to us. And God is too big a part of the whole mystery to really exclude him.
Barf, no, fascination I can work with, doubt has its place here, but I will not respect them, hell, I will pity them before respecting them.
[X] Fascination: This isn't the whole story, even Bob admits to not knowing everything on the subject. You want to know where all the missing pieces are. Then you will be able to make the judgement properly
Knowing more is always good in my books, no such thing as *things that man was not meant to know*.
- Location
- Germany
I mean, why the hell does the WG have the effectivly strongest faction in Dresden Files if not for this purpose?
You can't claim the angelic host exists to counter Lucy, since he was part of it ages ago and the Host was presuably even stronger before his faction split off.
The Outer Gates being the primary reason for the angelic host to be as powerful as they are, rather than the mere Messengers they'd need to be in most situations, only makes sense.
You can't claim the angelic host exists to counter Lucy, since he was part of it ages ago and the Host was presuably even stronger before his faction split off.
The Outer Gates being the primary reason for the angelic host to be as powerful as they are, rather than the mere Messengers they'd need to be in most situations, only makes sense.
- Location
- Terror Australis
[X] Doubt: Why is it the task of winter in its cruelty to guard the gates? Where are the Angels? Surely if there is any task that is meant for the hosts of heaven it is guarding the universe against those who would unmake it
It seems like the Fae Mantles where made by a bunch of Hard Men, sacrificing positive emotions on the altar of "practicality" is actively detrimental if you keep the negative ones.
It seems like the Fae Mantles where made by a bunch of Hard Men, sacrificing positive emotions on the altar of "practicality" is actively detrimental if you keep the negative ones.