This is more of a proof of concept demonstration than a research project.
There is no way they would ask for 400R if they hadn't tested the principles and designs thoroughly first.
But we won't be told what they've been up to. We don't have the need to know.
I am pretty sure the head of the Treasury will be seen as having need to know on at least broadly what the new portal design he's supposed to sign over the equivalent of two trillion dollars for. We've already been told a few things.

But seriously, while what you say is true, it in no way corrects or invalidates my point, which is that projects do not always get all the cash money they need in order to succeed as part of the first die allocated to them. Sometimes the project hits an unexpected snag and goes overbudget. And this is frequently given as a justification in-story for why projects wind up stalled out close to completion and need to be finished next quarter with one more die.

Part of what bothers me is that Boston 5 costs around 300R, and gives significant concrete benefits.
I can't see any significant benefits from portals until we have better computing, energy generation and something like the advanced materials station.
Yes, well, evidently the portal design science team can, or at least things it's worth pushing the technology with a more ambitious prototype using existing technology as proof of concept. Among other things, because we'll feel more motivated to develop anything else they need once we know from experience what they need because they've built a prototype and can easily identify its deficiencies.

Tib + Orbital: First off, I'm switching the (somewhat controversial) Forgotten Experimentation for Tiberium Vein Mines. Again, like in Simon's plan, plus it more than makes up for the 10RpT we're not getting from doing lots of Trade Programs. I moved a free die off of one of the BZ Inhibitors and replaced Erewhon's die with it. This makes Columbia more likely to finish. And we're still doing one Inhibitor, not as much as I'd like but still moving forward with it.

I could put another die on Vein Mines, but I don't think we want to spend that many Capital Goods on them currently.
Hm. Interesting variation on the theme. Personally I never really had a problem with your original plan even if I personally prefer "wait one turn for really major portal dice spam, so we finish Alloys Phase 5" as an approach slightly.

The one thing I'll note about this plan variant is that due to a combination of factors, I think you should perhaps consider flipping one die from veins to spikes. My reasons:

1) The enhanced yield project won't complete this turn without two dice under any circumstances. The vein mines, theoretically, might.

2) My plan has two dice on vein mines because next turn, I expect to need the money for portals. You are not operating under any such constraint; if we take your plan it is vanishingly unlikely that we'll need to spend more than one die on portals, and as I've demonstrated, one portal die can be fit into our existing budget easily even alongside serious alloy spending.

3) Frankly, I think that enhanced yield spike research is now more popular among voters than vein mines. At least one, possibly more than one, person has asked me to introduce enhanced yield spikes to my plan, and I think that having that project is in effect a secondary draw.

...

So I would suggest not compromising that specific bit of your plan's uniqueness, and keeping two dice on spikes, even if it makes it unlikely that the plan will actually complete that phase of vein mines.
 
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[X] Plan Re-Thinking With Portals 2
[X] Plan Thinking With Portals
[X] Plan Thinking With Portals, with a dash of sanity
[X] Plan Industrial Advancements

Voting for fun things.
 
Fortunately there are several easy ways to fix the accounting on Thinking With Portals and variants... lemme see...

Shuttle dice to arcology, railroad, or apartment dice.

Repulsorplate dice to North Boston dice.

In the original edition most people voted for, Forgotten experimentation to enhanced spike research or vein mining.

Life support research to Shala or hospital bays.

Any two of those, or in some places two dice shifted thusly, would do the trick.
 
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As noted, this works only for specific relationships between the portal and the matter passing through it that enable portals to be used as a reactionless drive. Also, it means that the ship must maintain a portal at all times while generating thrust, rather than only needing the portal to refuel periodically. If portals need to be shut down regularly, then this is problematic.
The first point, I agree, it's a hypothetical based on the unknown specifics of portal-matter interactions. The point about portals needing to be continuously maintained as well.

I would scarcely characterize using the portal in this manner as a 'reactionless' drive, however. For all intents and purposes the spaceship end is acting as a rocket, it's just that all the machinery is at the Earthside end.

[X] Plan Re-Thinking With Portals 2
[X] Plan Thinking With Portals
[X] Plan Thinking With Portals, with a dash of sanity
 
Sorry I've been pretty checked out of the thread this cycle, but uh..... gib alloys, I'm always voting for alloys until we finish Phase 6, I've decided that's my current low engagement single issue.

[X] Plan Attempting to Science the Apertures
 
I have zero compunctions about dropping 4 dice on Portals - in one turn, even! - I just want to get Alloys done more. Hence, my plans :)

Because you also said "people are scared now". The entire point of doing something that shows we're working on solutions is that we can show them.

That said, I seem to have misread your original post. And while I agree with the logic kinda, I still don't think it's worth 400R, kicking most of the other service projects out the window for a turn, and delaying Alloys another turn. One turn does not make a significant difference for Portals in the long run. The way dice are allocated here does seems to hurt some of our plan goals.

My main reason for tossing a vote at Derpmind's plan is simple - Earth is on a timer. We keep extending it with our abatement work, but it remains. The sooner we get portals working at a "transport people" level, the sooner we can potentially begin a high volume exodus of humanity off Earth should the tiberium situation suddenly go to shit. Fusion lifting people into orbit is Plan A. Portaling them up is the "oh shit" Plan B. I'd like Plan B to be in our pocket sooner than later.

It's not my first vote because I also feel we might as well finish the discount phases of alloys and be done with that for the near future instead of kicking it down the road a turn.

[X] Plan Thinking With Portals

I don't understand some of these suggestions that don't focus on the portals. Portals should be the absolute top priority bar none. The reason for this is that portals mitigate or solve every single problem or disadvantage we have against Nod by allowing safe transfer of resources between sites, and massive force concentration potential.

Nod likes hit-and-runs; imagine if every time Nod was found, a tidal wave of GDI poured out of a portal. Imagine if once a base was found, we just beamed in bombs.

Conversely, portal tech probably also leads to jamming-of-portal tech, which means that we both 1) need to rush it so we can make attacks unjammed and 2) need to develop jamming ourselves, unless we want Nod beaming in nukes.

[X] Plan Thinking With Portals
Fuck it. Either I'm right and this is a significant boost to Initiative First and it goes against everything we've been saying about how important it is to consider our people's QoL, or I'm wrong and everything will be fine.
Either way, it's better than continuing to think about what ifs.

Sorry I've been pretty checked out of the thread this cycle, but uh..... gib alloys, I'm always voting for alloys until we finish Phase 6, I've decided that's my current low engagement single issue.

[X] Plan Attempting to Science the Apertures

My plan does both Alloys and Portals. Check it out and see if it works for you.

There is actually a major issue with Derpmind's meme plan... Though not actually one that has come up as of page 1800. GDI has been hellbent on those U-Alloy plans for a while now and is getting into the home stretch of it. NOD is going to see that GDI found something... something they are willing to drop those plans for entirely for, at least for a quarter, and shift an absurd amount of resources into. Its a secret project.

NOD is naturally going to going be obligated to ask... why? Why would they do that? What the hell GDI? What are you doing there?

I'm not actually sure NOD ever figured out what the portal project was the first time they investigated GDI's portal efforts. So having just under half of GDI's global economy spontaniously and randomly shift to a secret project is going to be rather attention drawing. What was so insanely important enough to reshuffle almost half of the budget/resources towards out of no where.

What they do know is that the other major shift was suddenly an insane amount of resources are abruptly focused on trees. Why trees? What is this? That makes no real sense.

In short... NOD intelligence is going to collectively brown note and start pressing all the panic buttons.

You probably don't want NOD to do that.

Not quite. There has already been flavor text about trees from the yellow zoners. Trees freak them out as they are thought of as useless Tiberium magnets. Its become a thing they are viewed with unhappy thoughts and NOD is in the zones where trees are known as bad juju.

So GDI spends a quarter doing rando projects involving trees of all things... that are apparently for the outside world and not in domes. The next quarter massive efforts are seemingly randomly focused on trees. GDI must have some reasons for this madness... apparently its a thing people want enough to do these massive projects involving trees.

So now NOD has trees are becoming important for some inexplicable reasons. The best option is that its a resource savings booster for some other project they aren't seeing. That or trees are a mind control hazard or part of some kind of PLAN they aren't seeing. Either way a lot of the budget is going towards trees... and a lot of it is going somewhere. Somewhere important enough to stall the U-series plant out completely close to the end.

NOD pretty much has to investigate this oddity of behavior. If trees are suddenly reduced to kind of a thing that doesn't matter its going to bring up questions for NOD. Having all these resources going into a secret project is going to make it a thing they have to deal with. What is so important? What?

Its actually worse if the project finishes and suddenly nothing comes of it. This is a midstep project so its unlikely to do anything they ca figure out any time soon. The most logical reason for the mad science director of GDI's treasury to do a secret crash program like this is its a project that required itself to be built that fast. They are going to be going nuts until they figure out what you did there.

NOD's only real idea is going to be GDI found an 'I win' button level super project and the logical reason for there being no real observable effect is that its the kind of project that has a spin up time. You know the type: 'Survive 30 Minutes' missions or the kind that screws people over in stages of infection.

So NOD pretty much has to figure out what the GDI is doing this for. Its actually worse if the 'obvious game changing super project' remains a mystery box. That means spy-ops have failed... time for the zerg rush on the site.

Again, not telling you you can't do this. Just stating Its probably going to force NOD's hand... somehow. Most of the won't actually consider just asking what that is all about.

The only other response is NOD deciding it is the trees they should be concerned about and going after them... which means NOD is going to spent efforts on hating on the trees. Yes, that would be a pretty strange reason for the wars to go hot again.

So what happens in case of a plan like mine that does both Alloys and Portals?

[X] Plan Attempting to Science the Apertures

I considered throwing an approval vote to Thinking With Portals, but given that it has a significant lead and Science the Apertures is my favorite plan of the lot, I'm refraining until and unless there's a major change in the situation.

There's been a major change in the situation. Several of them in fact.

To be honest, I'm not exactly enthused by a lot of these plans, but I guess I'll just go with this one.

[X] Plan Alloy Assault

There has been multiple new plans posted in the meanwhile so check them out if you have the time.
 
[X] Plan Attempting to Science the Apertures

Yeah this'll work. I'll be willing to vote for a Enhanced Spike plan later since I'd like to find out how it would work. This plan gets me my beloved automated supports vehicles.
 
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[X] Plan Attempting to Science the Apertures

Yeah this'll work. I'll be willing to vote for a Enhanced Spike plan later since I'd like to find out how it would work. This plan gets me my beloved automated supports vehicles.

So does my plan and it also does both Alloys and Portals.
 
Anyways. Please give feedback if you think I should make more changes for this new plan. I think everything still works, but I had to do a lot of shuffling things around to make all the numbers work, so there might be parts that I didn't realize people really wouldn't like.
The income increases don't come until after the costs are deducted, so don't spend money you are planning on making. Sorry for not actioning this until the last minute. Yesterday and this morning have been dedicated to things other than GDIquest.
 
The income increases don't come until after the costs are deducted, so don't spend money you are planning on making. Sorry for not actioning this until the last minute. Yesterday and this morning have been dedicated to things other than GDIquest.

Heh. Well then my plan is invalid. Bummer. Better luck next time I guess.
 
The income increases don't come until after the costs are deducted, so don't spend money you are planning on making. Sorry for not actioning this until the last minute. Yesterday and this morning have been dedicated to things other than GDIquest.
Well, shoot. And at 6 votes behind, it's not... impossible my plan might still win, while being invalid. So for whatever it counts, here's a last-minute adjusted version of the plan. I've switched Forgotten Experimentation for Tib Vein Mines to save 20R, and I switched 2 dice off of the Trade Programs for a cheap AA die on the Stealth Disruptors.

[X] Plan Thinking With Portals
-[X] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 65R
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[X] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/485 4 dice 40R 22%
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 110R
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2+3) 263/595 3 dice 60R 11% (100% Phase 2)
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 0/560 2 dice 50R (2/6.5 median)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 75R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[X] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[X] Agriculture 6/6 +3 free dice 45R
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 9 dice 45R 97% (9/17 Phase 2)
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 free dice 195R
--[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/160 2 dice 40R 91%
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R (1/2 median)
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
--[X] Tiberium Field Refinery Development (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 80%
-[X] Orbital 7/7 +1 free +1 Erewhon dice 190R
--[X] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice +1 Erewhon die 80R 19%
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice 80R 100% (4/11.5 Phase 5)
--[X] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
-[X] Services 4/4 +1 free dice 415R
--[X] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (New) 0/400 4 dice 400R 48%
-[X] Military 7/7 dice 135R
--[X] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 65%
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 2 dice 20R 58%
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 1 die 20R (1/3 median)
--[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 1 AA die 15R (IDK)
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median)
-[X] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 0R
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto
---[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment
--[X] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
---[X] Developmentalist: Complete both Library Enhancement Programs
---[X] Militarist (Wardens): Begin Karachi after SADN Phase 1 is fully deployed (Q3 2064)
--[X] Trade Programs 1 die auto
----[X] Sell Consumer Goods +5 RpT
-[X] Total: 1225R/1225R
 
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Well, shoot. And at 7 votes behind, it's not... impossible my plan might still win, while being invalid. So for whatever it counts, here's a last-minute adjusted version of the plan. I've switched Forgotten Experimentation for Tib Vein Mines to save 20R, and I switched 2 dice off of the Trade Programs for a cheap AA die on the Stealth Disruptors.

[X] Plan Thinking With Portals
-[X] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 65R
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[X] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/485 4 dice 40R 22%
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 110R
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2+3) 263/595 3 dice 60R 11% (100% Phase 2)
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 0/560 2 dice 50R (2/6.5 median)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 75R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[X] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[X] Agriculture 6/6 +3 free dice 45R
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 9 dice 45R 97% (9/17 Phase 2)
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 free dice 195R
--[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/160 2 dice 40R 91%
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R (1/2 median)
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
--[X] Tiberium Field Refinery Development (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 80%
-[X] Orbital 7/7 +1 free +1 Erewhon dice 190R
--[X] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice +1 Erewhon die 80R 19%
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice 80R 100% (4/11.5 Phase 5)
--[X] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
-[X] Services 4/4 +1 free dice 415R
--[X] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (New) 0/400 4 dice 400R 48%
-[X] Military 7/7 dice 135R
--[X] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 65%
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 2 dice 20R 58%
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 1 die 20R (1/3 median)
--[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 1 AA die 15R (IDK)
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median)
-[X] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 0R
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto
---[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment
--[X] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
---[X] Developmentalist: Complete both Library Enhancement Programs
---[X] Militarist (Wardens): Begin Karachi after SADN Phase 1 is fully deployed (Q3 2064)
--[X] Trade Programs 1 die auto
----[X] Sell Consumer Goods +5 RpT
-[X] Total: 1225R/1225R

Already has my vote.
 
I was thinking .... but the inability to trade food with NOD, is it a bug or a feature? I mean, is this impossible for some reason, or are such agreements still being worked out, or did they just forget to add it? In theory, unlike housing or logistics, transferring food is not that difficult.
 
It could also be that we don't have a big enough food surplus for the people involved to feel comfortable trading with it. 24 in reserve is a very solid buffer to be sure, but most of the worlds population is still traumatized by the lean years following the Scrin invasion.
 
I suspect that. Parliament would like the Reserve to be higher.
Would be good to aim for something like 30 by the end of this plan.
 
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