@Derpmind
I… actually really like this plan?
I thought I would not vote for any none alloy plan, but I can understand that a plan investing 400 resources in portals does not have enough to also get another alloy foundry, and it has everything else essential.
I'm not yet sure whether I'd approval-vote it or not, and I obviously intend to suggest something that has alloys and is far more conservative on portal dice.
But I'm seriously considering the approval-vote because it's interesting, it's divergent in a way that makes sense and isn't reckless or anything.
While I love the portal memeplan in theory, I'm worried that our commitments in HI and Orbital can't afford to be pushed back even more than they already have been.
Derpmind isn't actually pushing back our Orbital commitments significantly; dice expenditure is solidly on valid space projects and she's spending about 8.5 dice on it. It's an okay plan for purposes of hitting the "20k in space" target.
And Derpmind isn't really hurting our Heavy Industry commitments more than we'd been contemplating doing anyway; things are just happening in a different order, with the repulsorplate factories we'd considered doing afterAlloys Phase 5 instead happening before.
I think we did the math and all our population will be in high quality housing in a few turns.
So... is building new Arcologies really a priority at the moment? Wouldn't it be better to put the 3 dice on shuttles to try and get the last phase? Or build more fortress towns for the upcoming conflict? Or even rush the housing refits even though people don't want to?
I just don't see new Arcologies being at all a higher priority than any of those.
I understand the need for more income but have you considered putting these two on the Tiberium Spikes? I think the consensus was they might lead to new tib tech and they would provide some income as well. And burn some ps.
Those are my only two concerns. Everything else looks great.
Edit: also very against the portal meme plan. Portals aren't a plan goal and don't have a deadline. There is absolutely no need to try and complete it this turn.
@Derpmind if you could fit alloy 5 in that would be amazing, as it is I think our heavy orbital commitments means we don't want to delay the cost reduction from alloy 5 as that helps make up ground there. Still means that Q4 we can push a lot of R into portals.
1) I explicitly addressed my reasoning in the original post. I'm aware that Attempting to Science the Apertures will set in motion a sequence of events that leaves us with more High Quality Housing than we have population (by my rough estimate, we'd probably gain +21 High Quality Housing between now and 2064Q3, and we only have 13 population units in Low Quality Housing as it is). However, as I already explained, I consider this acceptable. Having a bit of High Quality Housing surplus means that moving from place to place will be easier for our citizens (less likely to have to compromise on quality to go where the jobs are). It means that we won't be immediately back to our existing "get people out of Low Quality" quite so badly as soon as a predictable refugee wave hits or as soon as we have to deal with internal evacuations. It's not a bad thing in itself. Arguably not optimal, but not bad.
2) As to other project options, I only have 25 R of wiggle room left in the budget and I'd kind of prefer not to spend every last penny of it, since I think income's probably only going to be up at 1220 RpT or so next turn even with the border offensive and the vein mine phase. I want to be better off next turn than this turn for budgetary purposes. Which means:
2a) Three dice on shuttles is more than I care to spend on this turn, because it eats up 20 R of that 25 R margin.
2b) Fortress towns are tenable but arguably even less of a priority than arcologies; there will be ample time to work on them in early 2064, for instance.
2c) Rushing the housing refits on a "rip bandaid off quick" theory is a valid approach but entirely contradictory to the one I'm favoring. I want to avoid a mass of people being pushed out of housing that is, if cramped, at least well located and near long-established GDI urban centers, and scattered all over the landscape of the Blue Zones to wherever Housing (including Low Quality housing in a fortress town or a place like Chicago) is available. This means not pushing the project too hard and tearing apart huge amounts of housing all at once. Someone else might want to do the opposite and just do all the work right away. But since it looks like each unit of Housing is something like two million people, I'm very reluctant to take down enough commieblocks that twelve million people have to relocate internally in a three month timespan. That kind of thing is starting to sound less like a renovation project and more like an internal refugee crisis.
I understand the need for more income but have you considered putting these two on the Tiberium Spikes? I think the consensus was they might lead to new tib tech and they would provide some income as well. And burn some ps.
I'm no longer against spikes, but we kind of need the money now if we're going to go on funding portals seriously. So no, I don't think I'm budging on this point.
Edit: also very against the portal meme plan. Portals aren't a plan goal and don't have a deadline. There is absolutely no need to try and complete it this turn.
It should be noted that sometimes, things not explicitly promised in the plan are important and deserve to be done quickly. Like the stabilizer constellation back in the late '50s. Parliament cannot foresee the potentiality of new technologies and cannot force us to pursue them; that doesn't mean they shouldn't be pursued aggressively.
And in all fairness to Derpmind's plan, she's actually very much doing right by our Plan goals. She's about as focused on Plan goals as most if not all of the other plans I've seen discussed so far. She's just doing things in an unconventional order with unconventional emphasis.
@Derpmind if you could fit alloy 5 in that would be amazing, as it is I think our heavy orbital commitments means we don't want to delay the cost reduction from alloy 5 as that helps make up ground there. Still means that Q4 we can push a lot of R into portals.
The big discount is having Alloys Phase 5 finished before we unlock the next stage of stations, not so much for the current ones. We're certain to do that even if we delay Alloys a turn. And I'm already stretching things to the breaking point in my plan.
Buuut I gave it a shot anyways. And it kinda... sucks. Maybe it technically works but it also just sucks. I'm putting it in a spoiler because I have no intention of voting for this one. (You could probably do more to fit in a 5th die on Alloys but it's already well over the line where I think it's just not good anymore.)
[] Plan Alloyed Portals -[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 65R
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/485 4 dice 40R 22% -[] Heavy Industry 5/5 +1 free dice 200R
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/485 4 dice 160R 53%
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/595 2 dice 40R 100% (2/4 Phase 3) -[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 75R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90% -[] Agriculture 6/6 +4 free dice 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 10 dice 45R 99% (10/17 Phase 2) -[] Tiberium 7/7 dice 180R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R (1/2 median)
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 2 dice 50R 99% (2/4 Phase 2)
--[] Tiberium Field Refinery Development (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 80% -[] Orbital 7/7 +1 Erewhon dice 160R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice +1 Erewhon die 80R 19%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice 80R 100% (4/11.5 Phase 5) -[] Services 4/4 +1 free dice 415R
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (New) 0/400 4 dice 400R 48% -[] Military 7/7 dice 100R
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 2 dice 40R 7%
--[] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 2 dice 20R 58%
--[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/295 2 dice 20R (2/3.5 median)
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median) -[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice +20 R
--[] Trade Programs 4 dice auto
----[] Sell Consumer Goods x4 +20 RpT -[] Total: 1245R/1245R, -25 PS
Let me start by saying that I am really liking this plan. No plan that dumps about a third of our budget on a single, non-plan goal project should be this reasonable. You have defied the laws of nature, and have my congratulations.
That being said, there's one area where I really think you are off the mark. Why are you putting a die on Enhanced Tiberium Spikes? Setting aside the practical and ethical issues with increasing the spread of Tiberium, given the current state of Tib anxiety in the GDI, I don't think that deployment will be practical anytime soon. There are plenty of other 20R options available since you're using a free die.
[ ] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes (Platform)
Developing a model of Tiberium Spike that not only harvests Tiberium but also marginally speeds its growth is a quite radical idea. Based on GDI's work with the Tiberium Inhibitor and experience with the Scrin's Growth Accelerators, it would substantially increase the throughput, but at the risk of spreading Tiberium more quickly.
(Progress 0/180: 20 resources per die) (-5 Political Support per die) (MS)
If Tiberium is being pushed down by the inverted version AKA the inhibitors then this should be researched to find a way to draw it up instead in controlled areas so they don't collect deep underground as much. No point in clearing the surface if the subterranean becomes a bigger problem in the future.
[ ] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment
The Advanced EVA system will need substantial pools of computer supplies for deployment, but should substantially improve the overall output of the Initiative. It will also require significant assistance from the field, which makes it somewhat problematic for immediate deployment beyond the need for capital goods.
[ ] Department of Refits
With the military looking towards updating, replacing and refitting much of its equipment, there will need to likewise be an update, replacement and refit of the production and handling facilities. Spinning this function off into a dedicated department will increase efficiency while decreasing the Secretary of the Treasury's workload.
(-1 die) (-30 resources per turn) (30 progress towards each refit project per turn)
I like your Plan Alloyed Portals @Derpmind, of course I liked your other plan too, but I think people will like this one better because it gives them what they are wanting (more Alloys from the forge).
There's a good reason to do spike research. First, it's only research. If we don't like the results we don't implement it. Second, our existing inhibs are pushing tib away and deeper into the Earth. That specifically where we don't want it long term. The regular Scrin accelerators make more tib, but they also draw them in.
It might end up making sense in the future to deploy accelerators that require more surface abatement, but reduce Earth core tib contamination. Tib in the Earth core is going to eventually explode the planet. Surface abatement only let's use live on it longer before exploding.
That being said, there's one area where I really think you are off the mark. Why are you putting a die on Enhanced Tiberium Spikes? Setting aside the practical and ethical issues with increasing the spread of Tiberium, given the current state of Tib anxiety in the GDI, I don't think that deployment will be practical anytime soon. There are plenty of other 20R options available since you're using a free die.
This is due to last turn's results showing that our current generation of Tiberium Inhibitors are flawed, and more importantly, showing us what potential the technology has:
One thing that GDI has discovered is that the first generation of the inhibitors was actually marginally counterproductive. A Tiberium Accelerator has a threefold function. First, speeding the growth of Tiberium. Second, drawing subsurface Tiberium towards it. Third, they actually offer some degree of manual control over where the Tiberium spreads. By essentially plugging the thing in backwards, while it does mean that Tiberium growth was slowed, it also pushed it away, primarily down into the ground.
If we can figure out a way to control either the 2nd or 3rd function, they could be fantastic tools for further abatement efforts. This is especially critical as Tiberium continues to evolve and become more resistant to conventional sonic abatement tech. And the only project to research this... is the Enhanced Tib Spikes. So I think we have to do this research, despite the potential dangers and the political cost.
Anyways, vote's open, so here's my plan and its reasoning again. *Ahem* Sometimes, great (financial) sacrifices have to be made for the sake of science. Cracking the Visitor's portal technology is perhaps one of the most important scientific developments we could possibly make, for many good reasons, and we should pursue it with all due haste. Yes, this current stage will not yet give us Treasury-scale results. But the sooner it is completed, the sooner we will unlock its next stage, and the one after that, and so on. Please consider this certified viableTM plan.
[X] Plan Thinking With Portals -[X] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 65R
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[X] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/485 4 dice 40R 22% -[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 110R
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2+3) 263/595 3 dice 60R 11% (100% Phase 2)
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 0/560 2 dice 50R (2/6.5 median) -[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 75R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[X] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90% -[X] Agriculture 6/6 +3 free dice 45R
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 9 dice 45R 97% (9/17 Phase 2) -[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 free dice 195R
--[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/160 2 dice 40R 91%
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R (1/2 median)
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
--[X] Tiberium Field Refinery Development (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 80% -[X] Orbital 7/7 +1 free +1 Erewhon dice 190R
--[X] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice +1 Erewhon die 80R 19%
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice 80R 100% (4/11.5 Phase 5)
--[X] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75% -[X] Services 4/4 +1 free dice 415R
--[X] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (New) 0/400 4 dice 400R 48% -[X] Military 7/7 dice 135R
--[X] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 65%
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 2 dice 20R 58%
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 1 die 20R (1/3 median)
--[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 1 AA die 15R (IDK)
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median) -[X] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 0R
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto
---[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment
--[X] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
---[X] Developmentalist: Complete both Library Enhancement Programs
---[X] Militarist (Wardens): Begin Karachi after SADN Phase 1 is fully deployed (Q3 2064)
--[X] Trade Programs 1 die auto
----[X] Sell Consumer Goods +5 RpT -[X] Total: 1225R/1225R
[] Plan Thinking With Portals -[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 65R
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/485 4 dice 40R 22% -[] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 110R
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2+3) 263/595 3 dice 60R 11% (100% Phase 2)
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 0/560 2 dice 50R (2/6.5 median) -[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 75R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90% -[] Agriculture 6/6 +3 free dice 45R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 9 dice 45R 97% (9/17 Phase 2) -[] Tiberium 7/7 +1 free dice 215R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R (1/2 median)
--[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 10%
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
--[] Tiberium Field Refinery Development (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 80% -[] Orbital 7/7 +1 free +1 Erewhon dice 190R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice +1 Erewhon die 80R 19%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice 80R 100% (4/11.5 Phase 5)
--[] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75% -[] Services 4/4 +1 free dice 415R
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (New) 0/400 4 dice 400R 48% -[] Military 7/7 dice 120R
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 65%
--[] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 2 dice 20R 58%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 1 die 20R (1/3 median)
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median) -[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice +15 R
--[] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
---[] Developmentalist: Complete both Library Enhancement Programs
---[] Militarist (Wardens): Begin Karachi after SADN Phase 1 is fully deployed (Q3 2064)
--[] Trade Programs 3 dice auto
----[] Sell Consumer Goods x3 +15 RpT -[] Total: 1235R/1240R, -20 PS
That being said, there's one area where I really think you are off the mark. Why are you putting a die on Enhanced Tiberium Spikes? Setting aside the practical and ethical issues with increasing the spread of Tiberium, given the current state of Tib anxiety in the GDI, I don't think that deployment will be practical anytime soon. There are plenty of other 20R options available since you're using a free die.
Some here with long memories may be amazed to hear me say this, but Marids is right.
Historically we've only built Red Zone inhibitors. Since the Red Zones are huge regions of uninhabitable murder-lightning-radioactive-vore-crystal wasteland, that has limited our ability to observe phenomena directly. All we actually see is that the Red Zones don't expand as hard, and we call that a win and move on.
But now we're installing inhibitors in the Blue Zones, and we're learning, because we can observe the effects under more controlled conditions. And one thing we're learning is that the inhibitors, and by extension the Scrin tiberium-enhancers they're derived from, have multiple interlocking effects.
Which means we really do need to have a clear understanding of this technology, even to use just the inhibitors to full effect.
This plan doesn't go all-out four dice on portals, but it does have ONE die on portals, and doesn't give up the Phase 5 alloy foundries to get it, either!
Brogatar, since I've now posted my actual plan, do you feel open to the idea of 'disarming' your full-plan vote, since you seem to have put it up as a proxy for mine? I'd like to avoid fragmentation and confusion if, say, someone finds a mistake in my math or suggests some brilliant strategem and I feel like adjusting my plan accordingly.
