Into that Vast and Unrelenting Darkness (40K Xeno Civilization Quest)

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chellewalker said:
No? Plan: Looking Over our Shoulder puts 0 points in all of these options.

EDIT: Sorry, it puts 5 points in Engineering Improvization Doctrine (out of 20). It doesn't put any points in the other projects you mentioned though.
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Assuming a plan with 25 points into the Valiant and completing the Assembly wins, it will take 15 EXP to finish the Valiant next turn. It will take an additional 15 EXP to finish the Herdtemples for the Warp. That totals out to 30 EXP, with 9 remaining from this turn's total plus the growth from completing the Assembly, meaning that we won't have to pick between completing either the ship or the herdtemples, and can still finish a 10 EXP action like Lunar Monestaries that's been sitting there for a while, or Self Optimizing Electronics for more ACD or Network too. And since we have the extra Warp from the Herd Temples we can put the 20 remaining points into Protective Wards the same turn the Valiant launches to finish them too, with the 6 remaining points going to finishing off the Calculator or something. Finally with 5 points on Toxel Doctrine, finishing that so it comes online with the launch of the Valiant will only cost 15 ACD, leaving 10+ after the bonus from Education is considered to be spent on other actions.
 
7th Hex said:
Assuming a plan with 25 points into the Valiant and completing the Assembly wins, it will take 15 EXP to finish the Valiant next turn. It will take an additional 15 EXP to finish the Herdtemples for the Warp. That totals out to 30 EXP, with 9 remaining from this turn's total plus the growth from completing the Assembly, meaning that we won't have to pick between completing either the ship or the herdtemples, and can still finish a 10 EXP action like Lunar Monestaries that's been sitting there for a while, or Self Optimizing Electronics for more ACD or Network too. And since we have the extra Warp from the Herd Temples we can put the 20 remaining points into Protective Wards the same turn the Valiant launches to finish them too, with the 6 remaining points going to finishing off the Calculator or something. Finally with 5 points on Toxel Doctrine, finishing that so it comes online with the launch of the Valiant will only cost 15 ACD, leaving 10+ after the bonus from Education is considered to be spent on other actions.
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But that doesn't have anything to do with the plan itself; any plan can be a prelude to doing those things, not just Plan: Looking Over our Shoulder. Plan: Sudden Defense Investments is only different because it does it this turn, but next turn isn't something that predictions can be made about just yet (and I'm especially sceptical about this claim when, again, Looking Over our Shoulder doesn't put any points into Herdtemples and Mystek Wards).
 
chellewalker said:
But that doesn't have anything to do with the plan itself; any plan can be a prelude to doing those things, not just Plan: Looking Over our Shoulder. Plan: Sudden Defense Investments is only different because it does it this turn, but next turn isn't something that predictions can be made about just yet (and I'm especially sceptical about this claim when, again, Looking Over our Shoulder doesn't put any points into Herdtemples and Mystek Wards).
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Alright fine, how's this then: Theoretically Looking Over our Shoulder can complete the major defense selling points of Sudden Defense Initiative that it doesn't complete this turn (Mystek Protetive Wards and Engineering Improvisation Doctrine) by the time it completes the Valiant-class ship so they are integrated with it from the start.

Is that better?

My biggest concern is delaying the expansion of our Deep Space Monitoring System again, which Sudden Defense Initative does. We've had it shoved in our face with bold text that they were picking up something major happening the the Expanse a long time ago for two turns now, but nobody chose to expand them to look into it some more. So now we've lost most of our chance to observe what happend without learning anything, and it turns out what happened wasn't an isolated phenomena but one that is headed in our direction. If we choose to delay looking into it any longer we may lose the chance to observe how the phenomena actually worked at all, so the only things we'll be able to learn about what went down with whatever is coming towards us, and how we can deal with it, is from what has survived the centuries that the light took to reach us from the Expanse the slow way.
 
Below is the version of the plan without any explanation for any option in it. If you wish to see detailed explanation for why what options are taken in the plan scroll past this to below where you can see it. TLDR though this plan is focusing on creating a more equal distribution of points across categories instead of the the state where there a large degree between EXP and everything else while setting us up for further increase in multiple categories next turn and alongside that it also get further shrine upgrades making them even better than before which has large narrative implication across our society.

The plan also makes sure that we don't lose out on the benefits of the assembly/calculators projects. Finally it goes to figure out wtf going on with our grot(before it dies) and the quartzerbug getting us 2 bio data points unlock more projects for us and allowing us to do some biodata project next turn. This plan overall set up great for next turn for further points increase, works toward fixing the current point imbalance, works toward further shrines/elemental upgrades setting us up for a bright tomorrow.

[X] Plan: Things Are Afoot
-[X] A Exploring the Expanse:
--[X] Accomplishment
-[X] Drydock
--[X] Endeavor
-[X] Oracle Stone Chambers: 15/15, increasing CUL. Cost 2 Network.
-[X] Lumium Shrine: 15/15, increasing ACD. Cost 1 Nuclear Material.
-[X] Orbital Defense Arrays: (10/10), costs 1 Nuclear Material, construct Orbital Defense Satellites. Repeatable.
-[X] Lunar Monasteries: 7/10, Construct Lunar Monasteries, generating FTH.
-[X] Compulsory Secondary Education: 10/10, grants the Compulsory Secondary Education, increasing ACD Points, costs 1 Network.
-[X] Sleepwalk Brew: 7/20, grants ACD, CUL, and FTH as the Directorate gains access to the Sleepwalk Potion for use in recreation, art, and religious ceremonies.
-[X] Zoological Educational Facilities: 10/10, grants Open Air Zoos tradition.
-[X] GodTek Emulator: 12/15, establishes GodTek Emulator 0 - The Path, generating CUL, 5 Network and accelerating Calculator Research. Cost 1 Artefact. If completed automatically, only gain 1 Network. If majority autocompleted, only gain 3 Network.
-[X] The Heart of The Assembly: 13/15, establishes the Heart of the Assembly, generating EXP, 5 Nuclear Material and accelerating Assembly Research. Cost 1 Warp. If completed automatically, only gain 1 Nuclear Material. If majority autocompleted, only gain 3 nuclear material.
-[X] Lifeforce Batteries: 10/10, develop Lifeforce Batteries Artefact, generating 1 Warp and EXP.
-[X] Delve into the Tomb: 1/10, Establish Tombdelver Order, a Society which generates Artifacts (ART).
-[X] BOR-1292: Unlock Beholder Class BlokBot and BlokNet for research next turn, increasing BlokBot intelligence.
-[X] You're Orange Now: 5/5, information, grants 1 BioData.
-[X] Quartzbug Anatomy: 20/20, grants 1 Biodata, a CUL resource used to domesticate, alter, and utilize alien organisms. Permits additional Quartzbug projects.

[] Plan: Things Are Afoot
-[] A Exploring the Expanse: A region located to the Galactic West of Teklia. Mostly dead, but perhaps additional focused exploration of the region might reveal some manner of secret. Locations of Interest found: 1/???. Outpost Level: 1.
--[] Accomplishment
-[] Drydock
--[] Endeavor

We are required to drydock the Endeavor due to the damage and court marital that the ship dealing with atm. We have recvied warning signs about the expanse for a couple turns now and they keep getting brighter time to stop putting it off and discover what happening.

-[] Oracle Stone Chambers:15/15, upgrades Shrines with Oracle Stone Chambers, stone chambers that use specialized vibrato-occult resonance devices built using oracle stone and mind-machine interfaces to allow communication with spirits and offering amplitude to all elemental spirits, increasing CUL. Cost 2 Network.

The elemental stuff first off is truly amazing/cool and I def want to see way more of but that not the only reason to take. The stone chamber also allow us to be able to communicate with many more spirits in naklis and elsewhere which is pretty significant for relations between spirits and us. Oracle stones further upgrades our elemental spirits and allow all our shrines to more efficiently use lifeforce and increase our CUL which is our lowest stat atm. Finally all these come together to be a pretty significant upgrade to our shrines/elementals while getting our CUL points up a win win.

-[] Lumium Shrine: 15/15, upgrades Shrines to utilize Lumium Chips, arcane processing units that resonate especially with Gem Elementals, increasing ACD. Cost 1 Nuclear Material.

Once again elemental stuff is plain super cool and I have a personal interest in doing more with them however that not the only reason. This once again does another series of shrines upgrade further improving the potencty of shrines while working toward the point imbalance by getting a increase in ACD points. These also allow the shrine to run more complex programs which will allow the shrines to better utilize everything and hopefully will allow is to wake up the nascent spirits that reside in the gems(pls be dragons)

-[] Orbital Defense Arrays:(10/10), costs 1 Nuclear Material, construct Orbital Defense Satellites. Repeatable.

Completed this since it was only 2 points away from completion and ups our defensive so if any emenies set up in system they won't be able to gain control of orbit un opposed.

-[] Lunar Monasteries: A number of monks and holy men wanted to establish pan-religious monasteries on the Moon, believing that the Overview Effect and lunar silence would be conducive towards theological research and meditation. There existed a few good sites, mostly in the Lunar Craters. 7/10, Construct Lunar Monasteries, generating FTH.

This project has been there forever and this start on getting it close to completion setting it up to get done next turn while generating some nice FTH for us. We have seen before seemingly innocuous project unlock major things for us like naklis shrines did it may well be the same case here and furthermore this is also nice to just set up sites for out Faith people to do some theological research meditation to chill.

-[] Compulsory Secondary Education: 10/10, grants the Compulsory Secondary Education, increasing ACD Points, costs 1 Network.

This was 5 points away from completion this turn so this finishes up for us while increasing our ACD points working on that point imbalance.

-[] Sleepwalk Brew: 7/20, grants ACD, CUL, and FTH as the Directorate gains access to the Sleepwalk Potion for use in recreation, art, and religious ceremonies.

Sleepwalk brew is a phenomenal project that gets point increase in 3 different projects we only have one other project that even approaches this level of point gain and it a 50 point project. The brew is also just innocuous drug that inspires people it does not actually transport people to the dreamlands or everything as the option states. This also sets up a safe supply of the drug that regulated and standardized instead of the version going around that not standardized and can't be used safely if people are using it we might as well ensure their a safe version.

-[] Zoological Educational Facilities: A number of animal enthusiasts had proposed expanding the park system to include special open air zoos: attendees would learn about animals and get to view them safely in accurate recreations of their natural habitats via specialized heavy grav-trams and auto-rovers. It could also be used for research and helping promote endangered species. 10/10, grants Open Air Zoos tradition.

This option been here almost as long as the entire quest I just feel bad at this point not getting it down. It also pretty cool that helps the enviroment get more research going and would make our park system better allowing more animals in them.

-[] GodTek Emulator: 12/15, establishes GodTek Emulator 0 - The Path, generating CUL, 5 Network and accelerating Calculator Research. Cost 1 Artefact. If completed automatically, only gain 1 Network. If majority autocompleted, only gain 3 Network.
-[] The Heart of The Assembly: 13/15, establishes the Heart of the Assembly, generating EXP, 5 Nuclear Material and accelerating Assembly Research. Cost 1 Warp. If completed automatically, only gain 1 Nuclear Material. If majority autocompleted, only gain 3 nuclear material.

Does 8 progress on both of these so we can get the reward for doing the majority of the progress on these and don't lost the opportunity to do it. Also both of these seem like cool projects that I would rather seem them at there best a well and therefore the effects from them too.

-[] Lifeforce Batteries: With more advanced understanding of lifeforce came the proposal to develop a method of actually storing lifeforce. This would likely be a difficult undertaking, but it would allow for much more novel methods of using Lifeforce and allow for it to be stockpiled for use. It would also mean less overall reliance on blood sacrifice. 10/10, develop Lifeforce Batteries Artefact, generating 1 Warp and EXP.

This grants us much longer laster use of lifeforce allowing us to store them instead use them up in one go(this also will help our ships), generates a little EXP for us. Also generating warp for us a rare resource and finally it keep our shrines upgrades going furthering improving how good our shrines (confirmed by the qm) which as we have seen as pretty dramatic effects which with all the other shrine upgrades we have done should syngerize quite well.

-[] Delve into the Tomb: 1/10, Establish Tombdelver Order, a Society which generates Artifacts (ART).

This starts to work on a option that literally been here since the start of the quest so we can finnaly start investigating what beneath the earth. This will also generate a artifact once completed and creates a society which the QM has noted on discord generally unlock a lot of cool stuff for us and society in general are quite good.

-[] BOR-1292: Unlock Beholder Class BlokBot and BlokNet for research next turn, increasing BlokBot intelligence.

Work smarter not harder

-[] You're Orange Now: 5/5, information, grants 1 BioData.

Seriously worried Stizlak might be dead next turn not like grot have a long lifespan or anything so I much rather do this quick 5 point option before he dies and we lose the chance to study him. Futhermore it only 5 points so it a easy project to get done and gets us some valuable information on wtf happened with Stizlak and the ritual did to him. Finally it also grants a bio data which we are seeing multiple very valuable project that require them to be completed so it a great way to get that rare resource.

-[] Quartzbug Anatomy: 20/20, grants 1 Biodata, a CUL resource used to domesticate, alter, and utilize alien organisms. Permits additional Quartzbug projects.

Last but not least is Quartzbug Anatomy which we have sat on for a couple turns now and with the Quartzbug seeming to evolve and grow smarter I rather start to try to figure out what their deal is now than later when they could start to evolve in a threat. Futhermore it unlocks further projects to finally permanently deal with the projects of the bugs and to be able to start to utizle them to the benfeit of our wider society. Finally it grant us a bio data a very valuable resource which we have several project that require them in order for us to complete them.

[X] Plan Stepping Stone Rush
[X] Plan: Setting up for the auto completes.
[X] Plan: Building a Defense and Biodata
[X] Plan EcoTEK
 
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7th Hex said:
Alright fine, how's this then: Theoretically Looking Over our Shoulder can complete the major defense selling points of Sudden Defense Initiative that it doesn't complete this turn (Mystek Protective Wards and Engineering Improvisation Doctrine) by the time it completes the Valiant-class ship so they are integrated with it from the start.
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Again, this is dependent on how people vote next turn; Looking Over our Shoulder only puts a small bit into Engineering Improvisation Doctrine and doesn't put anything into Mystek Protective Wards. It can complete these before the Valiant Class is finished, but it doesn't actually incentivise it more than any other plan.

7th Hex said:
My biggest concern is delaying the expansion of our Deep Space Monitoring System again, which Sudden Defense Initative does. We've had it shoved in our face with bold text that they were picking up something major happening the the Expanse a long time ago for two turns now, but nobody chose to expand them to look into it some more.
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This I can understand a bit more, but since the plan does Explore Galactic East instead of Exploring the Expanse or Red Sun Expanded Monitoring (which Sudden Defense Investments does) I don't feel like it's any better/worse (personally I feel the Red Sun Expanded Monitoring would be more helpful since it's closer to the source and was hinted at being related to the phenomena, but it's not a huge difference).
 
chellewalker said:
Again, this is dependent on how people vote next turn; Looking Over our Shoulder only puts a small bit into Engineering Improvisation Doctrine and doesn't put anything into Mystek Protective Wards. It can complete these before the Valiant Class is finished, but it doesn't actually incentivise it more than any other plan.


This I can understand a bit more, but since the plan does Explore Galactic East instead of Exploring the Expanse or Red Sun Expanded Monitoring (which Sudden Defense Investments does) I don't feel like it's any better/worse (personally I feel the Red Sun Expanded Monitoring would be more helpful since it's closer to the source and was hinted at being related to the phenomena, but it's not a huge difference).
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Ehh, I'd say there's a not insignificant incentive to keep working on them from just a thread culture that dislikes leaving actions we've spent points in to "hang." More often if we can't complete an action at the time we start it, we still consider it important to keep spending points on it, if not fully complete it the next turn since points spent on projects uncompleted are points that aren't giving us a return. And I would say the possibility to not lose our 40 EXP investment into our sole warship from a bad warp roll or because it couldn't adapt to whatever craziness it ends up fighting is a pretty good incentive to have them finished by the time the Valiant is launched. I would be fine with swapping the 7 points from Calculator over to the Wards if that makes the plan more acceptable? Unless it suddenly gets 4 more progress on it's own we should still be able to majority complete it ourselves.

Given that the talk is of whatever went down happening in the Expanse, I think that's where we'd have to go to start looking for clues, and that hauling supplies out to the monitors of the red suns we've already explored is unlikely to get us much beyond the action itself. As for the Galactic East, my logic is that anything that's resistant enough to survive the centuries until now is far more likely to survive the one turn needed to get the Endeavor repaired before ending it out there than whatever we can see on the DSMs lasting one more turn given that we can already tell it's winding down. That and I really don't like being blind to fully half of our next door neighbors in the opposite direction to where we're focusing most of our efforts, hence the name "looking over our shoulder."
 
[X] Plan: Setting up for the auto completes.
[X] Plan: Looking Over our Shoulder
[X] Plan: Things Are Afoot
 
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We should try for Extremely Advanced Nuke Tek and the Teeth, in the next turns, if we actually want the shiny Valiant to actually be useful. Anti-orbital guns would also be useful.
 
I would personally advise for the next gen armour and HoloShields. Our ships can punch upwards due to Perpetunite but are fairly flimsy.
 
Can they? I take your point, but they have some impressive warheads but is that going to do diddly against a Destroyer fleet? Somehow I doubt it. And perpetunite warheads require a limited resource to make more of. Beam weapons do not.
 
While I want to get both Extremely Advanced Nuke Tek and Next Gen Armor as well, our recent problems have been ones that would have been better helped by the Engineering Improvization Doctrine rather than raw firepower.
 
If a destroyer fleet arrives then Extremely Advanced Nuke Tek and the Teeth also won't stop them. It would stop a minor incursion perhaps, but an entire fleet? No.
chellewalker said:
While I want to get both Extremely Advanced Nuke Tek and Next Gen Armor as well, our recent problems have been ones that would have been better helped by the Engineering Improvization Doctrine rather than raw firepower.
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I personally disagree on the reason why you're taking this, but frankly that option is the first step to Treknobabble so I can understand wanting it.
 
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chellewalker said:
While I want to get both Extremely Advanced Nuke Tek and Next Gen Armor as well, our recent problems have been ones that would have been better helped by the Engineering Improvization Doctrine rather than raw firepower.
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I've come around to doing Engineering Improvisation Doctrine before Extremely Advanced NukeTek too, mostly because the former can improve all our ships while the weapons upgrade from the latter only innately applies to the Valiant-class. I still stand by the Revelation Scanner being something important to do before them though, since being able to get a better understanding of whatever situation our ships end up in can only help, whether they solve it with Treknobabble or sufficient firepower is irrelevant.
 
TripleTango said:
Nuke Tek, yes.

The Teeth, no. That's our 'in case of emergency, break ART' option, as it only gets us the one planet-killing fusion cannon.
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I don't think it's planet-killing. Might be in the future given that it's apparently automatically upgrades, but I don't think we have any tech that can kill a planet with a single weapon right now. Even our perpetual fusion nukes had trouble dealing with just Mt. Wander. I think it's more likely to be something like our version of a Nova Cannon.
 
The Tekket only have two ships right now; if they get a Valiant they'll have three. 33% of the fleet with a giant long range gun is a pretty significant difference compared to 0% with giant long range guns.
 
Citrakayah said:
The Tekket only have two ships right now; if they get a Valiant they'll have three. 33% of the fleet with a giant long range gun is a pretty significant difference compared to 0% with giant long range guns.
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Baring complete disaster, the fleet will only grow as we expand our holdings and our weapons will only grow more capable. It's not worth throwing an ART at a one-off whose contribution to our total firepower will only get diluted as the game progresses.
 
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