- Location
- Florida
Definitely in favor of this. Just lay it on the table.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[ ] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
Ling Qi walks with Tsu. The Diviner brought men together. So will she.
Ling Qi walks with Tsu. The Diviner brought men together. So will she.
Ehhh maybe. It depends how much trickled down to the slums in a vassal's city. What's his face the creepy guy from Forge who is blind didn't act like a Zheng in this regard so it's not certain Ji Rong would know.
- Location
- the internet
Option 3 is more LQ and CRX's point of view but its not necessarily Emerald Seas' actual goal going forward. Sun Liling asked what the Emerald Seas wants out of this, not what LQ is aiming for.
A lot of people in the ES and those representing it aren't completely 100% on LQ's side...idk if we should pick option 3. Misrepresenting what people want isn't cool. LQ has this thing about being honest.
[ ] Settling the wall with the aim of ending the raiding that has killed so many of her people since time immemorial. That is the frontmost goal.
Option 1 is mostly about peace and that's what it comes down to in the end. This is not where we should go all in and ignore the many different political factions in our province. That's just picking a fight that will come back to bite us. Its very different from the bad blood we already have with the conservatives.
A lot of people in the ES and those representing it aren't completely 100% on LQ's side...idk if we should pick option 3. Misrepresenting what people want isn't cool. LQ has this thing about being honest.
[ ] Settling the wall with the aim of ending the raiding that has killed so many of her people since time immemorial. That is the frontmost goal.
Option 1 is mostly about peace and that's what it comes down to in the end. This is not where we should go all in and ignore the many different political factions in our province. That's just picking a fight that will come back to bite us. Its very different from the bad blood we already have with the conservatives.
- Location
- Florida
Maybe but I think part of it is convincing people of our angle. We can't do that if we're too worried to just say it and push it.
- Pronouns
- He
[ ] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
This one feels the most right to me, but I'm not completely satisfied with how all three options seem to carry the implicit or explicit assumption that we want the empire to expand. Our recent insights from Uncle Skelly lead me in the direction of saying that we don't want to make everything a part of ourselves, that contact and trade with other civilizations is good without expanding the borders. Development is also important, and allies can be more useful than vassals.
This one feels the most right to me, but I'm not completely satisfied with how all three options seem to carry the implicit or explicit assumption that we want the empire to expand. Our recent insights from Uncle Skelly lead me in the direction of saying that we don't want to make everything a part of ourselves, that contact and trade with other civilizations is good without expanding the borders. Development is also important, and allies can be more useful than vassals.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Lovely to see Qi showing some true spine and laying down the law. Good to know we have this button to push if Liling makes too much of a mess, even if we gotta be real sure that it's worth the cost before we actually push it.
- Location
- the internet
Its one thing to try to convince people within ES. Its quite another to put words some people's mouths. Option 3 isn't so much Emerald Seas as it is Ling Qi. We've yet to convince our whole province and we can't go to another political faction and claim that we have. That's functionally what she would be doing. She's speaking for the Emerald Seas right now.
SleepyCaterpilar
Just a Rapariga
To be fair, saying we DON'T want the empire to expand is basically social suicide. We would have all the dukes and then some after us.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We're... not putting words in their mouths?
"I want to hear your own words, what do you want out of this. Ddn't give me any run around about short term. What's the Emerald Seas doing down here long term?"
Sun Liling is not a simpleton despite the way she's been acting, she's aware that people might have different opinions than us. But she's asking LQ and through her CRX (and GG), the people who've done an astounding amount of work to try to bulldoze this into happening despite quite a few obstacles, what they're imagining.
She surely doesn't expect that we've done five focus-tested polls of every noble in the Emerald Seas.
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EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Personally if that's what you're trying to do
[ ] Showing that the Wall could be tamed and that the Emerald Sea could pacify its own borders, and conduct itself as a province of the Empire no less than any other.
Methinks this is the better option than Option 1. It even has long term vision to it, and a non-insignificant portion of ES would agree. Option 1 imo is too short-term.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
No, she's not asking for the position of people who're pushing for this project. She's asking for the official position of the Emerald Seas, as a united province. Option 3 isn't really what's driving anyone but Ling Qi at the moment - not Cai Renxiang, nor the Duchess, nor count clans, as far as I can see.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
There's no official position! Like, there isn't. This is in a baffling, weird grey area where the heir of the Duchess is engaging in a massive bit of diplomacy that could potentially impact the future of the Emerald Seas, and neither being helped (beyond the basics of protecting the experiment) nor hindered by Shenhua.
It's a weird situation, to say the least.
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- Location
- California
The closest thing to an official ES position is "A war on two fronts sucks, lets give this 'talking' thing a try and stop it from getting worse." If we're successful here, we basically get to see what the ES's policy is because we are actively creating it at the moment.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Right then. So it does come back to how much we want to reveal of our true intentions here. And... my instinct is to hide it, but I'd make for a shitty cultivator.
I would argue that all the money for infrastructure, and General Xia's time and effort, constitute a lot of help. But she isn't providing guidance or instruction for the specific task, presumably because she's more interested in Renxiang's development than how the diplomacy turns out. Which is in itself a good argument for replacing her as the Duchess
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Been 2 hours
[X] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
[X] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
on a wholly different note, we really need to thank Meizhen for her cooperation and reserveness. Really. It kinda saved us from an explosion(Xuan Shi too but he wasn't insulted as hard and not by a person as hated to him). We really ought to thank her.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
Sort of. Shenhua has publicly said that as a matter of principal, treating the Polar Nations as just another barbarian tribe wearing different hats is not something she is willing to tolerate. They have been declared civilized (gross) and will be negotiated with. That in of itself is a fairly firm position in regards to non-Imperial people they encounter. What they negotiate for and what they want are still sorta murky yes, but at the very least mutual recognition as nation states with borders is what is wanted.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
To be fair, it's a self-chosen one. Despite LQ's statement before about how nobody else could do it, I expect that Shenhua would have put solid, experienced people on the job... CRX managed to surprise her to volunteer.
It's just that she decided that she values seeing whether we can handle it over making sure it's handled and she also seems to understand that if she interferes too openly, in the wrong sort of way... then any triumph would become HER triumph first and CRX's not at all.
Which if she was someone scared of being outmaneuvered or replaced would be a great move, but for someone who wants to give Renxiang a chance to try to 'overthrow' her by proving herself worthy... is just fine.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
That this qualifies as a Revolutionary development in foreign policy for this empire is kind of fucking sad.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
IIRC, it's because the Reveler sometimes sends low-powered clones out into the Ebon Rivers to have fun, and no one wants to accidentally offend not!Sun Wukong.
PowerLeca
Rapidly aging
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] To establish that there were more methods, more tools that could be used to build the Empire out than sword and fire, even as they showed the Emerald Seas was lacking in neither.
I really like this one by far the most. It has a wonderful rhyme with CRX's intentions not to overthrow her mother via military might and conflict that would disrupt the province as a whole again. And it does that while in no way mentioning that very secret ultimate mission of overthrowing Shenhua. This statement allows the Little Xiangmen crew to practice the desired long term strategy openly and as a group while hiding its ulterior target.
The "expansion" of the Empire need not necessarily be only in land mass alone. Remember how we learned from Jiao about Cao Chun's belief in Imperial ideology. Using this phrasing to imply that we are merely showcasing new tools for expanding Imperial influence and methods could very possibly earn us back a little bit of the MOI cachet we've been eroding.
I really like this one by far the most. It has a wonderful rhyme with CRX's intentions not to overthrow her mother via military might and conflict that would disrupt the province as a whole again. And it does that while in no way mentioning that very secret ultimate mission of overthrowing Shenhua. This statement allows the Little Xiangmen crew to practice the desired long term strategy openly and as a group while hiding its ulterior target.
The "expansion" of the Empire need not necessarily be only in land mass alone. Remember how we learned from Jiao about Cao Chun's belief in Imperial ideology. Using this phrasing to imply that we are merely showcasing new tools for expanding Imperial influence and methods could very possibly earn us back a little bit of the MOI cachet we've been eroding.