Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Just wanted to say I understand, is a pretty big vote, I made it this way with the offers of vast aid for significant costs, as befits I think both parts of the crossover
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I really don't think it's a bad thing to owe Odin a favor. He's not the greatest guy ever, but he's not an asshole, either, and he's not stupid. He wouldn't put us in a situation that we would find morally objectionable, nor would be send us on a suicide mission. We have friends in high places, after all, and we're not the kind of enemy one wants to make, at least not if you have any kind of occult knowledge and/or the senses to tell you even a fraction of what we really are.
More likely, we might get tasked with something Odin doesn't want his Monoc forces tied to for some reason or another, probably supernatural power games. And DP already confirmed that he couldn't transfer the debt.
Us owing him a favor through Monoc Securities is actually a useful debt to have, because it becomes more valuable as we grow stronger, and we grow stronger very quickly. As a result, Odin will probably want to hold onto that marker for a good long while, and all the while he'll have a vested interest in preventing anything from rendering the value of that marker null and void.
More likely, we might get tasked with something Odin doesn't want his Monoc forces tied to for some reason or another, probably supernatural power games. And DP already confirmed that he couldn't transfer the debt.
Us owing him a favor through Monoc Securities is actually a useful debt to have, because it becomes more valuable as we grow stronger, and we grow stronger very quickly. As a result, Odin will probably want to hold onto that marker for a good long while, and all the while he'll have a vested interest in preventing anything from rendering the value of that marker null and void.
The important thing to ask is "are we magically bound by this favor, does this trigger CCC, and does Odin think that we are magically bound by the favor promised?". @DragonParadox could you answer from Molly's perspective? If Mab gives her word to someone, she literally physically cannot reneg. As I understand it, we are under no such compulsions internally - our word is only as firm as we morally will it to be. What tangible physical consequences would Molly face if she renegs on the deal? Not political ones (Odin becoming our enemy), but physical one that activate automatically? Would this give Odin actual magical hold over us in any way? Or does our exaltation laugh at puny god's attempt to bind its host? And, if there's binding, does it trigger CCC? At least for the duration of the favor?
If something about the favor physically constrains you, which an request to be at a particular place at a particular time would, then yes CCC triggers if you want to not be there. As to if you would be metaphysically bound, Molly is pretty sure she would not be, but she is really not inclined to go back on a deal without a good reason, she is her father's daughter and for that matter her mother. Also you would be making a rather unpleasant enemy if you break a contract, the old man did not last this long by being a pushover.
[X] Plan Brass Tacks
-[X] Offer:
—[X] Money 2 points
-[X] Receive:
—[X] The aid of one of Odin's valkyries, the Choosers of the Slain who have walked battlefields uncounted (Can be chosen up to seven times)
-[X] A rune-caster 2 points
-[X] Offer:
—[X] Money 2 points
-[X] Receive:
—[X] The aid of one of Odin's valkyries, the Choosers of the Slain who have walked battlefields uncounted (Can be chosen up to seven times)
-[X] A rune-caster 2 points
@Yog and @BronzeTongue
Long replies will take some time to put together.
Dresden was Mab's Winter Knight when he was shot, and also Warden of Demonreach. Two very serious magical players had links to him which would have allowed them to find him quickly. I am not surprised Mab found him as soon as he was shot.
If our minions are killed, its still a net loss in reputation and minions, and makes it much harder to recruit in the future.
This is now both a hostage rescue and a combat assault. We need to juggle two sets of balls and drop neither.
We have 9 of 10 ghouls(Adam's dead, so we're down 1), 2 of 3 whampires(Jack escaped) and 5 humans captured and in duress. There is almost certainly magic or magic entities involved in their confinement, like we saw with Cindy underground.
We now have to storm a location that has been fortified for over two weeks without getting anyone else killed on our side.
We need:
-Someone who can deal with magic jailers or magic bonds like the one used on Cindy
-A squad to protect her while she is doing that, and to deal with physical hostiles
-A second squad as backup, or to physically carry the humans out; the ghouls and whamps might be able to move, but a human who got battered by akuma, then force marched several kilometers before being imprisonement is not going to be in good shape.
Thats 1x runecaster and 2 squads. 4 points.
And this has to be done fast, since we dont know what their Go To Hell plan is; greater akuma can afford to suicide bomb because they will resurrect in Yomi Wan if not killed with Agg.
Thats just the hostage rescue portion.
Meatshields/reinforcements for our strike team is Gard + rifle squad + heavy weapons squad. 11 people. 5 points.
Added to the team of Lydia + Michael + Dresden + Murphy + Devsimar, thats 16 people.
Which is barely numerical parity against 17 akuma. Leaving Molly to deal with the Greater Akuma.
If anything, we're being rather conservative about the spending on combat forces.
You want crushing advantage whenever possible, not a fair fight.
If you value the lives of the people there, and a reputation for aking care of your friends and minions, you'll try to go for more rather than less. Money can be replaced, debts paid.
Lives cant be replaced, and reputation is hard to build if squandered by being miserly in your spending.
Very much agreed.
I would rather give hard goods than explain details of powers as a trade good.
Debt is to be avoided where possible, but its not the mortal threat you claim, as long as the terms are limited and recognized.
The Summer Court gave Dresden and Morgan favors as a reward in canon, which was just around three months ago IC.
Mab gave Butters one after Battlegrounds. We certainly had no trouble going into debt with Porter in this very quest when we were seeking Lydia, because it was near unanimous. You didnt complain.
Harry made the mistake as a kid of offering 3x favors, blank check with no limitations.
Thats where his problem started.
2)Raith Deeps by Einherjar needed automatic weapons to deal with regenerating uberghouls at the climax of White Night.
I distinctly recall Murphy carrying her automatic P90 in that fight.
That fight was underground as well, in a cave system.
Respectfully, you dont appear to know what you are talking about in the setting.
Either that, or its been a very long time since you read the books and you havent bothered to refresh your knowledge.
Long replies will take some time to put together.
Point of order:
Dresden was Mab's Winter Knight when he was shot, and also Warden of Demonreach. Two very serious magical players had links to him which would have allowed them to find him quickly. I am not surprised Mab found him as soon as he was shot.
What is your definition of victory?
If our minions are killed, its still a net loss in reputation and minions, and makes it much harder to recruit in the future.
This is now both a hostage rescue and a combat assault. We need to juggle two sets of balls and drop neither.
We have 9 of 10 ghouls(Adam's dead, so we're down 1), 2 of 3 whampires(Jack escaped) and 5 humans captured and in duress. There is almost certainly magic or magic entities involved in their confinement, like we saw with Cindy underground.
We now have to storm a location that has been fortified for over two weeks without getting anyone else killed on our side.
We need:
-Someone who can deal with magic jailers or magic bonds like the one used on Cindy
-A squad to protect her while she is doing that, and to deal with physical hostiles
-A second squad as backup, or to physically carry the humans out; the ghouls and whamps might be able to move, but a human who got battered by akuma, then force marched several kilometers before being imprisonement is not going to be in good shape.
Thats 1x runecaster and 2 squads. 4 points.
And this has to be done fast, since we dont know what their Go To Hell plan is; greater akuma can afford to suicide bomb because they will resurrect in Yomi Wan if not killed with Agg.
Thats just the hostage rescue portion.
Meatshields/reinforcements for our strike team is Gard + rifle squad + heavy weapons squad. 11 people. 5 points.
Added to the team of Lydia + Michael + Dresden + Murphy + Devsimar, thats 16 people.
Which is barely numerical parity against 17 akuma. Leaving Molly to deal with the Greater Akuma.
If anything, we're being rather conservative about the spending on combat forces.
You want crushing advantage whenever possible, not a fair fight.
If you value the lives of the people there, and a reputation for aking care of your friends and minions, you'll try to go for more rather than less. Money can be replaced, debts paid.
Lives cant be replaced, and reputation is hard to build if squandered by being miserly in your spending.
^^^
Very much agreed.
I would rather give hard goods than explain details of powers as a trade good.
1)Untrue.
Debt is to be avoided where possible, but its not the mortal threat you claim, as long as the terms are limited and recognized.
The Summer Court gave Dresden and Morgan favors as a reward in canon, which was just around three months ago IC.
Mab gave Butters one after Battlegrounds. We certainly had no trouble going into debt with Porter in this very quest when we were seeking Lydia, because it was near unanimous. You didnt complain.
Harry made the mistake as a kid of offering 3x favors, blank check with no limitations.
Thats where his problem started.
2)Raith Deeps by Einherjar needed automatic weapons to deal with regenerating uberghouls at the climax of White Night.
I distinctly recall Murphy carrying her automatic P90 in that fight.
That fight was underground as well, in a cave system.
Respectfully, you dont appear to know what you are talking about in the setting.
Either that, or its been a very long time since you read the books and you havent bothered to refresh your knowledge.
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- Location
- washington
in fairness intellectus is a big deal its not the end all be all I'm sure plenty of powerful supernatural beings have it and am unsure why you think its rare enough that the queens wouldn't have it. Also why do you think the worthy dead thing isn't intellectus? they know that one thing of who has died and when in a worthy way and all how is that not intellectus?
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-Dresden speculates that the Mothers of the Fae Courts have it, and I think its stated that loyal angels do.
We know Winter Knights dont because Dresden doesnt have it. We know Winter Ladies dont because we see the inside of Molly's head in Cold Case and the Christmas short story, and she doesnt have it.
And if Mab or Titania had it for their portfolios, Nemesis infiltration of the Winter or Summer Court would not be possible.
Its rare and powerful. Which is why possession of it is enough to catapult you up the rankings.
What the Archive does can probably be described as Intellectus for recorded human knowledge, for just one example.
-Because it isnt described that way. Its an awareness of someone at risk of death, not someone dying right now.
Dresden has seen Gard do it twice in canon; both times it was not described as anything like Intellectus, and both times the subjects (first Dresden, and then Michael) survived.
What Gard and the other Valks do is more like prophecy.
Or the precognition part of the Sight that wizards get as they get older.
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Just to take another swing at this; I can see the rationale for the higher buys, but I think the real cost here is being significantly underestimated.
The terms of our favor here are that we need to show up for a fight, but we aren't setting anything like parameters on that. Odin could, if he's so inclined, ask us to show up and fight the feds for him and we'd be obligated to do it.
Now we wouldn't be bound to it magically, but we'd be stuck between sinking our supernatural credit score and doing something we don't want to.
He probably wouldn't do that specifically, but any plan that relies on the other side of a contract not exercising their rights under it is bad one. It's like getting an adjustable rate mortgage; looks great until something beyond your awareness or control changes and suddenly it's very much not.
Would Odin deliberately make an enemy of us? Probably not. Will he extract maximum profit from his investments and prioritize his own interests over ours? Yes, absolutely.
Some amount of favor trading is unavoidable, Butcher implies there's something like a world spanning favor economy for the supernatural that the high level guys all trade on.
That being said, it seems like most people get burned by it at least once even at the top of the game. A good credit score is part of the equation, but some amount of trust is also necessary to trade certain levels of promise.
We don't know Odin, we don't have shared interests or shared history. The expected behavior, as we have from the WoQM on the free passage thing, is that he'll take all he can get and expects us to do the same.
I'm very reluctant to engage in the high level mover and shaker economy of the setting while we're operating below the mom and pop store level.
In terms of practical concerns, more people would be beneficial in some ways. That said, I think the marginal value of some aspects are minimal.
The extra rune caster and last two squads of gunmen are basically padding for the critical elements of the force. If we had spare budget I'd like the insurance, but I'm not convinced they'll be a key difference in most likely scenarios.
That being the case, I don't think it's worth taking an open ended deal that we have to take on faith will be reconcilable with our interests for the added benefit they bring to the table.
I'm sticking with my plan because I think we can make it work, but if you are one of the people interested in a bigger buy I'd ask you to consider what the value added is and why the cost won't exceed that in value.
The terms of our favor here are that we need to show up for a fight, but we aren't setting anything like parameters on that. Odin could, if he's so inclined, ask us to show up and fight the feds for him and we'd be obligated to do it.
Now we wouldn't be bound to it magically, but we'd be stuck between sinking our supernatural credit score and doing something we don't want to.
He probably wouldn't do that specifically, but any plan that relies on the other side of a contract not exercising their rights under it is bad one. It's like getting an adjustable rate mortgage; looks great until something beyond your awareness or control changes and suddenly it's very much not.
Would Odin deliberately make an enemy of us? Probably not. Will he extract maximum profit from his investments and prioritize his own interests over ours? Yes, absolutely.
Some amount of favor trading is unavoidable, Butcher implies there's something like a world spanning favor economy for the supernatural that the high level guys all trade on.
That being said, it seems like most people get burned by it at least once even at the top of the game. A good credit score is part of the equation, but some amount of trust is also necessary to trade certain levels of promise.
We don't know Odin, we don't have shared interests or shared history. The expected behavior, as we have from the WoQM on the free passage thing, is that he'll take all he can get and expects us to do the same.
I'm very reluctant to engage in the high level mover and shaker economy of the setting while we're operating below the mom and pop store level.
In terms of practical concerns, more people would be beneficial in some ways. That said, I think the marginal value of some aspects are minimal.
The extra rune caster and last two squads of gunmen are basically padding for the critical elements of the force. If we had spare budget I'd like the insurance, but I'm not convinced they'll be a key difference in most likely scenarios.
That being the case, I don't think it's worth taking an open ended deal that we have to take on faith will be reconcilable with our interests for the added benefit they bring to the table.
I'm sticking with my plan because I think we can make it work, but if you are one of the people interested in a bigger buy I'd ask you to consider what the value added is and why the cost won't exceed that in value.
2)Its Dresdenverse canon that the svartalfar sell artifice to supernatural customers, especially Norse gods; the copper/iron/silver circle in Dresden's basement by Changes was allegedly bought from a svartalfar craftsman for three thousand dollars.
If it was possible to use their artifice to snoop on their secrets, they wouldnt be selling, because the only things the svartalfar are more famous for than the quality of their work and their word, is their secretiveness.
Also, nowhere does it say that Odin gets to tell us how to make them, or to observe the process of manufacture.
And while traditions are different?
Nothing says that Molly's alchemical potions look different from Harry's; the fact that her paradigm of manufacture differs from his doesnt imply the finished product is materially different. Certainly neither Bob nor Harry appear to imply so.
Just like Dresden doesnt imply there's anything qualitatively different between the Gatekeeper's truesight potion and his own.
My judgement is that there just isnt that much to squeeze even if Odin wanted to.
And that there is enough potential downside from attempting to gouge Molly that its in his own self-interest not to.
You never know when you might need a favor.
3)Yes they did.
They didnt do a thing to Nicodemus directly; they just set up the situation, dangled the bait and he did it to himself.
Despite his being warned several times, including what appeared to be literal Divine Intervention through Michael at one point.
4)Both men have PTSD from making deals with unforseen complications. Arawn with Kemmler, Dresden with Lea.
And yet. None of this previously stopped Dresden making deals with Summer Lady Lily barely three or four months ago, when he went to Arctis Tor. Or Arawn negotiating with Molly after we freed him.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Black Mirror Incarnation is 15 XP and a perfect disguise charm. It could help to mitigate concerns about legally dubious fights. So long as its existence is properly concealed. We might also consider Night Swallows Secrets.
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Winter Law can be considered a form of topic-specific Intellectus.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
NSS is cheaper and is even better for staying out of legal trouble. It can also be done retroactively. BMI has a very different use case then NSS because wherever their uses cases overlap NSS is better.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Should we also specify that it would be a discrete, finite battle, as well as one which would not force us to break (current, at least) sworn oaths, or to go against our (current, at least) allies?
The former, because I would rather not have us be stuck fighting at the Gates of Reality for the rest of eternity, and the latter because I also don't want us to end up having to go against, say, Dresden or our dad (or even someone like Porter for that matter).
It may also be prudent to stipulate that we will be mutually supported by whatever forces we are working with for the duration of the fight, with the exception of if the battle becomes untenable, in which case stipulate that we be permitted to withdraw in such an event, rather than being expected or required to fight to the death. Just to cover our bases.
On the other hand, there is the possibility that even the implicit insinuations in stipulating such, the insinuations being that he might attempt to screw us over, might be sufficient to cause offense, and I don't want us to have Odin as an enemy either.
The former, because I would rather not have us be stuck fighting at the Gates of Reality for the rest of eternity, and the latter because I also don't want us to end up having to go against, say, Dresden or our dad (or even someone like Porter for that matter).
It may also be prudent to stipulate that we will be mutually supported by whatever forces we are working with for the duration of the fight, with the exception of if the battle becomes untenable, in which case stipulate that we be permitted to withdraw in such an event, rather than being expected or required to fight to the death. Just to cover our bases.
On the other hand, there is the possibility that even the implicit insinuations in stipulating such, the insinuations being that he might attempt to screw us over, might be sufficient to cause offense, and I don't want us to have Odin as an enemy either.
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We dont know Odin.
We do know Gard, one of his Valkyries, and have literally staked our life and those of our loved ones on their trustworthiness.
1)Nothing in the terms of that fight mandates how you participate in a fight, or how you define victory.
Arranging for the other side to surrender, or even back off, is potentially entirely valid.
Besides, the more respectable parts of the supernatural explicitly avoid getting into fights with mortal governments.
Its...destabilizing. Im not worried about that; Odin is not the Red Court.
2)Noting that we literally have charms and shit for this.
Everything from the charm that stops people talking for a year, to the one that raises DC for hostile projects to DC9, to shapeshifting sorcery, are all available.
The runecaster and extra squads are critical elements for the other side of this mission: Making sure our people get home alive.
I keep saying it.
If the greater akuma bound some spectres(mad ghosts) into the jail compartment and signalled them to kill the hostages as soon as he started to lose a fight, we could win a battlefield engagement and still lose because all we're left with is dead bodies.
This is literally what Kattrin did at twenty four hours notice with Cindy.
The greater akuma had two weeks to prepare before grabbing our people, and way more resources than a renegade Valkyrie.
^^^
Also this.
I was under the impression it was more like Google.
At least, thats what Molly's short story implies. Most of that story would not have had to happen if Molly could automatically figure out what was wrong with the Miksani.
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Polymorph potion is only 2 XP.
Oh, there absolutely a lot of things that Odin can do with one fight that we won't want him to do. The simplest thing? Involving Molly in large scale conflict she's not a part of. LIke making her an enemy of Summer Court. Or preventing her being there to stop Dresden from becoming a Winter Knight. It's all in the timing.
My understanding is that Intellectus itself is sorta like google - you dont' simultaneously know everything, you still need to pay attention and ask yourself questions / think about something.
Also, I wouldn't consider "location specific" Intellectus to be less than topic-specific one.
Also, I found a quote (Battleground, chapter 36, thanks to wiki on Intellectus):
Valkyries have Intellectus in regard to Honored Dead. Which is more impressive, if you think about it, than "torture methods".
So, yeah, naagloshii should be a valkyrie peer.
You're missing my point. The svartalves have been in the business for a long time, the basic observations of what they're up to aren't worth much because at that level what you want is utility and not fact finding.
I don't expect him to learn grand secrets if the universe or how to copy our work. I do expect him to get more insight into what exactly we are and how we do things, which is valuable to him because the other sources for that information are limited.
A one off order of custom equipment like this just isn't that valuable when you work at scale.
You say that like it refutes my point. I was highlighting that having a good reputation doesn't mean people can't screw you and come out smelling like roses when they're done. Which is unquestionably what they did there.
Odin doesn't have a motive we're aware of to do that, but it doesn't need to be a deliberate hit to be damaging to us.
Your plan rests on the assumption that he'll play nice and try to cultivate our relationship in a particular way despite not really knowing anything about how he works outside of the narrow scope we see with Dresden in canon.
If something on the board changes before he calls in the favor, or you're wrong about the unfounded assumptions you're working with then we have to deal with an unknown amount of trouble.
PTSD that should be a warning about the consequences of taking a deal that looks good at the time but ages poorly.
Harry isn't the best example here, since for every deal he manages to defuse another two go off in his face.
Plenty of people trust Harry after he became the Winter knight without that trust going upstream to Mab. At least, not the same kind of trust.
I have no doubt that Gard and Odin keep their sworn word. That doesn't mean I trust them not to do what's best for their interests even knowing that it's a problem for us.
1) That particular example was just an illustration of how loosely defined this favor is. Go raiding with them against someone who doesn't deserve it, defending someone from revenge they've earned, or other distasteful stuff are all on the table.
Odin works with all sorts, including people like Marcone, it's entirely possible that we end up fighting on the side of people we think objectively qualify as assholes.
2) So now you're suggesting that we spend 15+ exp so that we can pay off a favor? Some of those are things we want for other reasons, but opportunity costs are a thing. Giving Odin a slot in the knife fight for exp is a real cost.
This particular trick was a back up for a back up, I doubt that it was as well set up.
Some additional hero units might matter, but the mooks aren't going to matter if the greater Akuma is taking magical spite shots.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not saying I look forward to spending 15 XP on Black Mirror Incarnation, but the utility from that one seems to exceed the potions by miles. So much so that it doesn't even really seem worth comparing the two.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Mostly because polymorph potion is much more conventional. I sort of expect it to be seen though by supernatural senses. But if BMI ever gets seen though I am going to be very upset.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Honestly, if I had my way, any time that we would be negotiating or really even interacting with one or more of the major players, I would want to have either or both of Michael and Harry, so as to make it clear that attempting to bullshit or rules-lawyer themselves into getting away with fucking us over (for instance, engineering a situation where we would be forced to take on a fey Debt to avoid worse consequences for ourselves or others, and then using that to massively fuck us over (i.e. by demanding eternal servitude to pay off said debt)) would not be without consequences, but I am also concerned that even seeming to insinuate that they would do so might be enough to give Offense, which could well be even worse, particularly as it could end up getting whoever is there with us in deep shit as well.
And yeah, they could still massively fuck us over while keeping precisely to the letter of their word, particularly depending upon how loosely they interpret the meaning of any given word, or the meaning of the agreement taken as a whole.
And yeah, they could still massively fuck us over while keeping precisely to the letter of their word, particularly depending upon how loosely they interpret the meaning of any given word, or the meaning of the agreement taken as a whole.
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And done.
Which is why Dresden and Bob essentially calling the naagloshii sorta angels was significant.
The Holy People came to do a job, and left after the job was done.
Gods stay to interact with humanity until the White God called time on the assignment.
The QM has mentioned my other issues with the definitions in play.
2)No, not at all.
Kattrin is in no way similar. She could benefit from a necromantic ritual to get stronger by essentially nomming other people, but so could essentially any wizard, and at least some spirits like the Hecatean Hags.
Naagloshii do so naturally just by killing their human magical targets, and Yama Kings by expanding the areas they control and their number of imprisoned souls. When Shagnasty killed Kirby the werewolf in canon, his power grew by a very small amount.
3)The One-Eye is not a description, its a name.
Odin One-Eye =/=Donar Vadderung =/=Kris Kringle =/= Beowulf. Its all the same person behind it, but they are different people legally and magically, and the definitions actually matter. Either Odin or Donar Vadderung showed up at Chitchen Itza in Changes. Odin One-Eye showed up at Chicago in Battlegrounds. Kringle showed up in Cold Days at the Outsider fight and Demonreach.
People who serve Kringle might well have no legal obligation to Vadderung; the Valks and Einherjar have been seen to serve Odin and Vadderung but not Kringle. The Wild Hunt follows Kringle, not One Eye, and the reindeer of Kringle dont serve Vadderung.
To quote Odin himself:
Mab makes requests of Kringle for legal and magical reasons.
And there are subtle changes in his appearance, specifically his hair color, depending on whether you're talking to Kringle or Vadderung.
4)Thats not what it says though?
Molly's at the beginning of her career as a significant supernatural player, and it made sense to anyone with eyes to expect that her domain, places where she wields control/influence would grow from just encompassing Last Station.
Thats very different from thinking she's going to spontaneously become god-queen of a Hell.
You're jumping to conclusions my friend.
5)Its no-visa travel, not open borders.
And its not diplomatic immunity either; a person inside our territory is still subject to our laws just like any guest. The cantrev lord "Froggy" in Bombshells enjoyed guest right and diplomatic immunity in svartalfar territory until he tried to set off a chemical weapon at a svartalfar reception and got summarily dismembered, according to svartalfar law and custom.
6)We've been giggling over the sheer ignorance involved in the akuma's plan, yes. Or at least I have.
If a greater akuma curse would work on a free and active Exaltation, the Primordials would have had no trouble with pinning Celestial Exaltations down. The point of an Exaltation has always been that external powers dont get to fuck with it, and that it requires literal plot fiat to imprison or impede one.
The combat debuff on Molly might have worked if Molly rolled poorly on native countermagic, which is Wits + Occult.
The plan for capturing or guiding the Exaltation, not so much.
7)Lol.
Dude, Kringle and the Erl King are two of the known leaders of the Wild Hunt. They both led the Hunt in Cold Days, and Dresden had to formally defeat them both in order to assume control of the Wild Hunt that Halloween.
Odin sending us against the Erl King is not remotely likely.
Still a funny image, so thank you for the giggle
1)In the Dresdenverse setting, angels >>> gods. Hell, Dragons >>> most gods.
Which is why Dresden and Bob essentially calling the naagloshii sorta angels was significant.
The Holy People came to do a job, and left after the job was done.
Gods stay to interact with humanity until the White God called time on the assignment.
The QM has mentioned my other issues with the definitions in play.
2)No, not at all.
Kattrin is in no way similar. She could benefit from a necromantic ritual to get stronger by essentially nomming other people, but so could essentially any wizard, and at least some spirits like the Hecatean Hags.
Naagloshii do so naturally just by killing their human magical targets, and Yama Kings by expanding the areas they control and their number of imprisoned souls. When Shagnasty killed Kirby the werewolf in canon, his power grew by a very small amount.
3)The One-Eye is not a description, its a name.
Odin One-Eye =/=Donar Vadderung =/=Kris Kringle =/= Beowulf. Its all the same person behind it, but they are different people legally and magically, and the definitions actually matter. Either Odin or Donar Vadderung showed up at Chitchen Itza in Changes. Odin One-Eye showed up at Chicago in Battlegrounds. Kringle showed up in Cold Days at the Outsider fight and Demonreach.
People who serve Kringle might well have no legal obligation to Vadderung; the Valks and Einherjar have been seen to serve Odin and Vadderung but not Kringle. The Wild Hunt follows Kringle, not One Eye, and the reindeer of Kringle dont serve Vadderung.
To quote Odin himself:
My contact was waiting for me at a table in the back corner, and I walked over to join him. He was a big man by every definition of the word, tall and strong and solid, with a barrel for a chest and a smaller keg of a belly to go with it. His hair and beard were white and silver, though the rosy smoothness of his cheeks belied any indication of old age, and his eyes were blue and bright. He wore a chain-mail shirt and hunting leathers, and a long, hooded red coat trimmed in white fur hung from the back of the chair beside him. A simple, worn-looking broadsword hung at his side, and a large, lumpy leather sack sat on the floor beside him, as natural there as a mail carrier with his bag.
"Sir Knight," he said.
"You're here as Kringle, seriously?" I asked him.
Kringle winked at me. "The Winter Knight called for me in his official capacity as an agent of the Winter Court. Mab has the right to summon Kringle. If she'd called for Vadderung, I'd have told her to get in line."
Donar Vadderung was the name of the CEO of Monoc Securities, a corporate security interest that provided information and highly skilled specialists to those with a great deal of money. Vadderung had access to more information than anyone I knew, except maybe the Senior Council of the White Council of Wizardry-only he was a hell of a lot smarter about using it. He was also, I was reasonably certain, Odin. The Odin. Or if he wasn't, he could do an awfully good impersonation. Oh, and also, he was Santa Claus.
Vadderung is a complicated guy.
"But you and Kringle are the same person," I said.
"Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body," he replied.
"That's just a fiction," I said, "a little game of protocol."
"Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom one does not get along famously well. It can be tedious, but generally is less trouble than a duel would be."
Mac set a couple of his homebrewed beers down on the bar. I rounded them up and returned to the table, putting both bottles out in the middle. Kringle chose one, nodded to the chair across from him, and I sat.
"Sir Knight," he said.
"You're here as Kringle, seriously?" I asked him.
Kringle winked at me. "The Winter Knight called for me in his official capacity as an agent of the Winter Court. Mab has the right to summon Kringle. If she'd called for Vadderung, I'd have told her to get in line."
Donar Vadderung was the name of the CEO of Monoc Securities, a corporate security interest that provided information and highly skilled specialists to those with a great deal of money. Vadderung had access to more information than anyone I knew, except maybe the Senior Council of the White Council of Wizardry-only he was a hell of a lot smarter about using it. He was also, I was reasonably certain, Odin. The Odin. Or if he wasn't, he could do an awfully good impersonation. Oh, and also, he was Santa Claus.
Vadderung is a complicated guy.
"But you and Kringle are the same person," I said.
"Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body," he replied.
"That's just a fiction," I said, "a little game of protocol."
"Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom one does not get along famously well. It can be tedious, but generally is less trouble than a duel would be."
Mac set a couple of his homebrewed beers down on the bar. I rounded them up and returned to the table, putting both bottles out in the middle. Kringle chose one, nodded to the chair across from him, and I sat.
And there are subtle changes in his appearance, specifically his hair color, depending on whether you're talking to Kringle or Vadderung.
4)Thats not what it says though?
Molly's at the beginning of her career as a significant supernatural player, and it made sense to anyone with eyes to expect that her domain, places where she wields control/influence would grow from just encompassing Last Station.
Thats very different from thinking she's going to spontaneously become god-queen of a Hell.
You're jumping to conclusions my friend.
5)Its no-visa travel, not open borders.
And its not diplomatic immunity either; a person inside our territory is still subject to our laws just like any guest. The cantrev lord "Froggy" in Bombshells enjoyed guest right and diplomatic immunity in svartalfar territory until he tried to set off a chemical weapon at a svartalfar reception and got summarily dismembered, according to svartalfar law and custom.
6)We've been giggling over the sheer ignorance involved in the akuma's plan, yes. Or at least I have.
If a greater akuma curse would work on a free and active Exaltation, the Primordials would have had no trouble with pinning Celestial Exaltations down. The point of an Exaltation has always been that external powers dont get to fuck with it, and that it requires literal plot fiat to imprison or impede one.
The combat debuff on Molly might have worked if Molly rolled poorly on native countermagic, which is Wits + Occult.
The plan for capturing or guiding the Exaltation, not so much.
7)Lol.
Dude, Kringle and the Erl King are two of the known leaders of the Wild Hunt. They both led the Hunt in Cold Days, and Dresden had to formally defeat them both in order to assume control of the Wild Hunt that Halloween.
Odin sending us against the Erl King is not remotely likely.
Still a funny image, so thank you for the giggle
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