questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
What about Ayin? Where the hell is dad?
“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest
- Thread starter Lepidoptera
- Start date
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- Tags
- library of ruina lobotomy corporation project moon puella magi madoka magica eldritch horror magical girl crossover eldritch protagonist female protagonist fluffy gore non-human protagonist suffering violence discussion is always good civ good decisions identity crises nuclear moth detected parenting powers activate
kaillll
Judgment Upon You
*a note appears with blinding light*
"...the fuck is this..."
*it says buying milk*
Not quite? E.G.O Xiao has the mentality of "I will see this through to the end with my own hands, to honor the ones who trusted and stood by me til their deaths." I think she still would rather them not be dead, but it is important that she isn't hung up on it, especially since she has no way to bring them back at this point.
Distorted Xiao here might be a lot more regretful at a glance. "I shouldn't have come here. Now they are all dead from my selfish request." "If I had known this would happen, I would have insisted on coming here by myself." "If only I can bring them back somehow." etc. But at the end of the day, no matter how much she regrets, she has no way to revert time to before their deaths. So those thoughts are actually pretty poisonous, and any one of them would have provided a weakness for Carmen to exploit.
Even if both E.G.O Xiao and Distorted Xiao would end up continuing to fight the Library, the mentality behind it is so completely different, and yet just separated by a thin line. So it really goes back to what Roland said, one wrong step and one would crash to the ground and distort.
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EGO Xiao is *I will honor their sacrifices, they came her on their own volition after I explicitly told them they were probably walking to their death, and doing anything but my best is spitting on their grave*.
Distortion Xiao is *They all died, waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh* *Cry like a little bitch*
But seriously, you have to remember that they all came to the library after Xiao told them that she was going alone, was not their superior anymore, and was unfit for the position due to conflict of interest, she is in no way responsible for their deaths.
Distortion Xiao is *They all died, waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh* *Cry like a little bitch*
But seriously, you have to remember that they all came to the library after Xiao told them that she was going alone, was not their superior anymore, and was unfit for the position due to conflict of interest, she is in no way responsible for their deaths.
2P1-nd4
Iron Top, the Paradox Future form of Spinda
I wouldn't say it like that more that Xiao owns her bad actions and refuses to make excuses for herself so she pushes on in hopes of avenging them or making their deaths mean something, to give up halfway, lose herself in despair, or excuse her actions she would become a distortion.
If you want a better understanding of an Egoist's mindset i'd recommend reading distortion detective, it's free and translated to english officially, but there's a similar scene were Moses regrets bringing Ezra back into the Udjat's and her's business and begins making excuses for herself in her head, before her thoughts cut off and she reaffirms her resolve, Ezra chose to follow Moses and respects her of her own free will, to infantalize Ezra by not acknowledging her own will or using Ezra as an excuse to feel bad about herself she'd be disrespecting them both.
And like with Ezra and Moses, Xaio's men follow her and respect her because of who they are and who she is, she won't waste their lives needlessly, but if they have to, they are willing to put their lives on the line for her, whereas a distorted XIao would be a monster that wouldn't recognize their sacrifice or autonomy and tries to shoulder all of the guilt and burden herself while also doing normal distortion things like attacking people, mind controlling them, try to get others to also distort, and other such nastiness.
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I disagree, because to me all forms of doubt imply uncertainty. All the EGO and distortion manifestations have a phase of uncertainty, but what matters is the ending thought after that. Labeling all negative self-beliefs as doubt seems too broad. I believe that if the person comes out with a conviction in one of those self-rejecting beliefs, they will distort, just like if they were still undecided and wanted to stop agonizing over it.
Your point that the only cases we've directly seen are due to doubt is fair, it is my speculation and assumption that doubt is not the only mindset one could have. But the distortions we've seen reflect in some way their final mindsets just prior to distortion, so I don't see why we can't look to all post-distortion forms for clues.
Maybe it's just a difference in labeling. At least in this quest we can do like Lepidoptera suggested and ask Carmen, who would totally never try to lead us astray.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Because post distortions, they have grabbed onto a "coping mechanism" to serve as a way to combat the doubt they had when they first distorted in the first place.
Looking for clues means you should know which one is a misleading clue. When analyzing the process, result is not a bad thing to take into account, however, you should also note the relative time span between the result and the process.
And for something like doubt, results can easily disguise as something else. As you said, it implies uncertainty. Which might as well be impossible to retain after Distorting.
Yan post-Distortion is absolutely certain in the City's Will and held 0 doubt of anything. Philip himself...well, his 3 kids are more busy shit-talking, while the singular kid remaining is an incomplete piece. Tanya, Greta, etc, could've all easily distorted from doubt itself, and their end "ideology" could've simply been that doubt hardening into an ignorant stance.
For the current time, we have concrete evidence from the game that doubt is a certain aspect of distortion. While any other type of aspects that can come into play, are merely assumptions, or speculations that aren't as certain and absolute as they need to be.
This particular line especially is irrelevant. The resulting Distortion or E.G.O came from the unstable emotions and/or Conviction/Doubt which came before it.
The ending thoughts after that are irrelevant because it is the result of the manifestation. It is entirely outside of the scope of our speculation, being that "What is the cause for Distortion/E.G.O manifesting?".
Ah, but Yan right before distortion also had absolutely no doubts, no doubts that all his moves were preordained and nothing was his fault, he had no doubts he was nothing more than the puppet of the Will of the City.
What he didn't have was a sense of self-worth and agency, his will had been shattered not by doubts, but by the lack of it.
We don't, not only the case I just pointed out, but the fact that the dialogues with the Ensemble shows that some where quite resolved when distorting, The puppeteer wasn't doubting he could have saved his son, he was absolutely sure he could have if not for Roland, The head of the church of Gears just seems to have solidified her previous beliefs post distortion, not had any doubts at any points, Greta isn't talking about her having doubts when she talks about what made her distorts, she talks about how the way they got about it was a colossal waste.
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kaillll
Judgment Upon You
Everyone have different interpretation of distortions, unless PM comes out And tell us how exactly does the Distortion phenomenon works, We are going to have different interpretation and that's okay.
So stop this pointless argument at once, You're not gonna convince each other.
So stop this pointless argument at once, You're not gonna convince each other.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Here's the thing though.
They did. Angela is right there declaring it to be doubt. Unless that was meant to be a "Hah! Gotcha" moment from Project Moon, I don't see why I should even consider Angela to be wrong.
They did. Angela is right there declaring it to be doubt. Unless that was meant to be a "Hah! Gotcha" moment from Project Moon, I don't see why I should even consider Angela to be wrong.
kaillll
Judgment Upon You
Dont you think depending your whole perception of a phenomenon on the view of one single person even if that person's the main character is a bit dumb?
Like, Perceptions, viewpoints, people is gonna think definitely on the same subject matter unless enough people says the same.
Like, there's a whole thing called unreliable narrator.
Which distortions, Carman and maybe even Angela herself is somewhat fitting for that role, Can't really trust everything they told you because that's filtered though their viewpoint, their opinion on the subject matter.
Unless in limbus This subject is brought up again and the characters come to the same conclusion as her. I'm not really gonna believe that.
Like, Perceptions, viewpoints, people is gonna think definitely on the same subject matter unless enough people says the same.
Like, there's a whole thing called unreliable narrator.
Which distortions, Carman and maybe even Angela herself is somewhat fitting for that role, Can't really trust everything they told you because that's filtered though their viewpoint, their opinion on the subject matter.
Unless in limbus This subject is brought up again and the characters come to the same conclusion as her. I'm not really gonna believe that.
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2.1.11 - Failing Hard At Emotional Distance
Lepidoptera
Mother of Monsters, Unverified Impuritas Civitatis
- Location
- Indeterminate Unknown
Chapter 90 - Failing Hard At Emotional Distance
"Well, I think you deserve help." you say. "And I doubt anyone here but you disagrees with that statement."
"If it helps," Mami interjects, "don't think of it as something we're being asked to do. We want to support you, Kyoko. It's entirely our choice, so you don't need or owe anything back in exchange."
Kyoko continues to glare forwards impassively, the only indication of her emotional turbulence being the roiling, shifting waves of heat beating out from her body. Eventually, slowly, she nods. "Sure, I guess that works."
Deciding to stop pressing that topic for now, you move on to something less personal. Well, less personal for everyone else. More personal for you.
"With that confirmed, then, there's something I have to make you aware of. It's not an immediate threat, to be sure, but it is something you'll likely need to keep an eye on."
The mood shifts away from the uncertainty and concern to a simple mild worry. Yuma has a certain level of calm whenever encountering danger that you know is a result of a deeply unpleasant childhood, and Mami and Kyoko are both experienced in dealing with potential threats. Some impersonal, external danger is far less difficult for them to confront than their own personal issues.
"While Homura and I were doing regular testing," you continue, "she told me that Carmen had been talking to her."
That announcement changes the mood considerably. Specifically, you notice the way Mami sinks into her seat. You can almost hear her thinking. Another threat she can't fight, another problem she can't solve, another time she can't help. It's an interesting parallel to Kyoko, whose own self-worth seems similarly tied to what she can offer people. Thankfully, the thought is there only for a moment before being shoved away. Mami straightens her body once again, looking towards you questioningly.
"Your mother? I had thought she only appeared to create Distortions."
"Wait, your mom makes Distortions? Is it a family thing or something?" Kyoko asks. Right, she hasn't gotten the full explanation yet.
"It's a bit more complicated than that." you say. "My mother died long before my sister or I were born, but because my father was pretty much the mad scientist to end all mad scientists she ended up surviving as a disembodied being within the collective human consciousness. I've never so much as spoken to her, but she was a charismatic person. An excellent, inspiring speaker who lifted up everyone around her. Or so I've heard, anyways."
The children around the table exchange quizzical glances at your grim tone. Nothing you've said so far seems particularly problematic on its own.
"Carmen isn't a bad person, she's just… not the kind of person you want giving you advice. Not anymore, anyways. She talks to people who are in distress, in danger, or otherwise in a bad place. I don't think it's malicious, or that she's trying to prey on people's vulnerability. It's just that she tends to encourage people in the wrong way."
"The wrong way?" Yuma repeats in confusion.
"Distortions have destructive mindsets, either to themselves or others, and Carmen drives people to become them on purpose. Not out of necessity, not out of malice, but just because she thinks it's what's best for people." you conclude. Your personal feelings on Carmen aside, all that matters is making sure the kids treat her with caution should she ever manifest to them.
"So, you think she's gonna start trying to talk to me?" Kyoko asks with a raised eyebrow. Despite the nonchalance, you can see her fingers tightening around the silverware. You pause, then shake your head.
"I don't know what she's going to try to do. Her keeping in contact with Homura breaks the previous pattern of behavior that we had established. Now, you all need to be prepared because anything could happen."
"Then we'll just have to face it together. We've been able to accomplish so much so far, after all." Mami says with a resolute smile.
"Yeah! If Yuma hears anyone talking, then Yuma won't listen."
"I'm not asking you to ignore her," you specify, "just to be cautious, and to not give anything she says too much value. And warn Sayaka and Madoka if you see them next before I do. They could be targeted as well."
The kids and you sit around the table in an awkward, solemn silence. It seems nobody will be pressing you for more information on your past. Relief filters through you. You're not unwilling to be more open, just… not yet. Not yet.
The cake is half gone. That seems like a good cutoff point. Wouldn't want anyone eating too much and all.
"Well, that's enough of that. We're halfway out of cake, and it's better to save some for later, so I think we should call it here for today." you say, picking up the clean plates from before each of your kids and carrying them into the kitchen. Behind you, Mami picks up the remaining cake and carries it away.
All things considered, this was a nice meal. Maybe you should do something like this again sometime, just with less drama involved. Though perhaps that's too much to hope for, given everything you have to deal with.
—————————
"It feels kinda weird being able to… y'know, see myself like this."
"I can understand the feeling. A new body is a lot to get used to." you commiserate with the former Magical Girl. Kyoko sits atop the apartment roof with her disguise absent, the air rippling with heat. Around her, golden coils of Light are splayed out into the midday sky.
"Oh. I didn't mean that." Kyoko corrects. "This new body is kinda weird, yeah, but I don't have any problems with it.
If anything, it's more odd how natural it feels. I kinda expected having four legs to be harder to deal with."
"No, it's more about… this." Kyoko gestures to the web of thoughts and memories scattered above her. "Never really thought I'd get to actually see my self like this. I'm basically looking at my soul right now."
"It's a bit more complicated than that," you correct, prodding a memory of Kyoko and Mami killing a Witch and following the burst of emotion back out to the corresponding part of Kyoko's body. "Lobotomy can manipulate and interact with the immaterial of a person's self. While the Soul is technically included in that, I'm only looking at your mind right now. Souls are a whole other mess that I prefer to avoid dealing with when possible."
"I'm going to ignore that you apparently have enough experience with actual, real Souls to have a personal opinion on interacting with them." Kyoko says.
"There are several Abnormalities that can interact with Souls. They all do it in different ways, and it's usually very bad for whoever it happens to, so the general rule is to not let it happen at all."
You prod another memory, and Kyoko shivers. You wince in sympathy. You've been trying your best to dull the feedback, but that particular memory was a little more intense than the others.
"Sorry, but I think we're done for now. I've got a full analysis of how your Distortion was formed and which traits come from where."
Kyoko pushes herself up to her feet. "Great, so now what? Do we just-" Halfway through her sentence, Kyoko cuts off and turns her head. A few buildings over, barely visible in the early afternoon light, is a faint shimmering in the air.
"I see it."
"Can we deal with it? I've gotta admit, I'm a bit curious about getting a chance to fight like this."
———————————————
The Witch…
[] Hunt it now
[] Wait for more people to join you
———————————————
Der Freischütz's Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
Porccubus' Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
X will tell Mami what's going on no matter what you pick. This is more of just asking whether this Barrier will be just you and Kyoko or the whole group.
The analysis will be explained later, when it is less narratively awkward.
"Well, I think you deserve help." you say. "And I doubt anyone here but you disagrees with that statement."
"If it helps," Mami interjects, "don't think of it as something we're being asked to do. We want to support you, Kyoko. It's entirely our choice, so you don't need or owe anything back in exchange."
Kyoko continues to glare forwards impassively, the only indication of her emotional turbulence being the roiling, shifting waves of heat beating out from her body. Eventually, slowly, she nods. "Sure, I guess that works."
Deciding to stop pressing that topic for now, you move on to something less personal. Well, less personal for everyone else. More personal for you.
"With that confirmed, then, there's something I have to make you aware of. It's not an immediate threat, to be sure, but it is something you'll likely need to keep an eye on."
The mood shifts away from the uncertainty and concern to a simple mild worry. Yuma has a certain level of calm whenever encountering danger that you know is a result of a deeply unpleasant childhood, and Mami and Kyoko are both experienced in dealing with potential threats. Some impersonal, external danger is far less difficult for them to confront than their own personal issues.
"While Homura and I were doing regular testing," you continue, "she told me that Carmen had been talking to her."
That announcement changes the mood considerably. Specifically, you notice the way Mami sinks into her seat. You can almost hear her thinking. Another threat she can't fight, another problem she can't solve, another time she can't help. It's an interesting parallel to Kyoko, whose own self-worth seems similarly tied to what she can offer people. Thankfully, the thought is there only for a moment before being shoved away. Mami straightens her body once again, looking towards you questioningly.
"Your mother? I had thought she only appeared to create Distortions."
"Wait, your mom makes Distortions? Is it a family thing or something?" Kyoko asks. Right, she hasn't gotten the full explanation yet.
"It's a bit more complicated than that." you say. "My mother died long before my sister or I were born, but because my father was pretty much the mad scientist to end all mad scientists she ended up surviving as a disembodied being within the collective human consciousness. I've never so much as spoken to her, but she was a charismatic person. An excellent, inspiring speaker who lifted up everyone around her. Or so I've heard, anyways."
The children around the table exchange quizzical glances at your grim tone. Nothing you've said so far seems particularly problematic on its own.
"Carmen isn't a bad person, she's just… not the kind of person you want giving you advice. Not anymore, anyways. She talks to people who are in distress, in danger, or otherwise in a bad place. I don't think it's malicious, or that she's trying to prey on people's vulnerability. It's just that she tends to encourage people in the wrong way."
"The wrong way?" Yuma repeats in confusion.
"Distortions have destructive mindsets, either to themselves or others, and Carmen drives people to become them on purpose. Not out of necessity, not out of malice, but just because she thinks it's what's best for people." you conclude. Your personal feelings on Carmen aside, all that matters is making sure the kids treat her with caution should she ever manifest to them.
"So, you think she's gonna start trying to talk to me?" Kyoko asks with a raised eyebrow. Despite the nonchalance, you can see her fingers tightening around the silverware. You pause, then shake your head.
"I don't know what she's going to try to do. Her keeping in contact with Homura breaks the previous pattern of behavior that we had established. Now, you all need to be prepared because anything could happen."
"Then we'll just have to face it together. We've been able to accomplish so much so far, after all." Mami says with a resolute smile.
"Yeah! If Yuma hears anyone talking, then Yuma won't listen."
"I'm not asking you to ignore her," you specify, "just to be cautious, and to not give anything she says too much value. And warn Sayaka and Madoka if you see them next before I do. They could be targeted as well."
The kids and you sit around the table in an awkward, solemn silence. It seems nobody will be pressing you for more information on your past. Relief filters through you. You're not unwilling to be more open, just… not yet. Not yet.
The cake is half gone. That seems like a good cutoff point. Wouldn't want anyone eating too much and all.
"Well, that's enough of that. We're halfway out of cake, and it's better to save some for later, so I think we should call it here for today." you say, picking up the clean plates from before each of your kids and carrying them into the kitchen. Behind you, Mami picks up the remaining cake and carries it away.
All things considered, this was a nice meal. Maybe you should do something like this again sometime, just with less drama involved. Though perhaps that's too much to hope for, given everything you have to deal with.
—————————
"It feels kinda weird being able to… y'know, see myself like this."
"I can understand the feeling. A new body is a lot to get used to." you commiserate with the former Magical Girl. Kyoko sits atop the apartment roof with her disguise absent, the air rippling with heat. Around her, golden coils of Light are splayed out into the midday sky.
"Oh. I didn't mean that." Kyoko corrects. "This new body is kinda weird, yeah, but I don't have any problems with it.
If anything, it's more odd how natural it feels. I kinda expected having four legs to be harder to deal with."
"No, it's more about… this." Kyoko gestures to the web of thoughts and memories scattered above her. "Never really thought I'd get to actually see my self like this. I'm basically looking at my soul right now."
"It's a bit more complicated than that," you correct, prodding a memory of Kyoko and Mami killing a Witch and following the burst of emotion back out to the corresponding part of Kyoko's body. "Lobotomy can manipulate and interact with the immaterial of a person's self. While the Soul is technically included in that, I'm only looking at your mind right now. Souls are a whole other mess that I prefer to avoid dealing with when possible."
"I'm going to ignore that you apparently have enough experience with actual, real Souls to have a personal opinion on interacting with them." Kyoko says.
"There are several Abnormalities that can interact with Souls. They all do it in different ways, and it's usually very bad for whoever it happens to, so the general rule is to not let it happen at all."
You prod another memory, and Kyoko shivers. You wince in sympathy. You've been trying your best to dull the feedback, but that particular memory was a little more intense than the others.
"Sorry, but I think we're done for now. I've got a full analysis of how your Distortion was formed and which traits come from where."
Kyoko pushes herself up to her feet. "Great, so now what? Do we just-" Halfway through her sentence, Kyoko cuts off and turns her head. A few buildings over, barely visible in the early afternoon light, is a faint shimmering in the air.
"I see it."
"Can we deal with it? I've gotta admit, I'm a bit curious about getting a chance to fight like this."
———————————————
The Witch…
[] Hunt it now
[] Wait for more people to join you
———————————————
Der Freischütz's Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
Porccubus' Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
X will tell Mami what's going on no matter what you pick. This is more of just asking whether this Barrier will be just you and Kyoko or the whole group.
The analysis will be explained later, when it is less narratively awkward.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Just us and Kyoko is already overkill.
[X] Hunt it now
Besides, I wanna have X test out her new gear too.
[X] Hunt it now
Besides, I wanna have X test out her new gear too.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
[X] Hunt it now
Finally, we can burn a witch!
Finally, we can burn a witch!
"Actually, yes, mom does distortions, dad does EGO, I want to do both, and Angela did do both"
So nobody's going to react to the *mom died far before I or sis were born*?
Children nowadays, not even knowing how babies are made.
Of course it feels natural! It's your body, after all, why wouldn't it feels natural?
Except White Night, he is all upsides, no downsides, a stronger body, a purpose, SALVATION, your own personal weapon, all that and more for just a blessing!*
*This message sponsored by White Night's apostles, get a blessing now and have one free immortality package!
[x] Hunt it now
Both of us don't requires grief seeds to fight, that makes it advantageous to fight without the girls in term of ressources.
- Location
- Miami
I imagine at some point that Kyoko spies a familiar trying to kill someone and promptly has a brief guilt spiral about the familiars she let attack people before.
Has she actually let familiars kill people before? I know she implies it but never saw it happen before.
Has she actually let familiars kill people before? I know she implies it but never saw it happen before.
From what we know, she just don't kill stray familiars, never let them kill people in front of her and definitely didn't reach the far ends of directly feeding people to them that we can logically induce to probably be done by some, especially on familiars from particularly easy witches you already know.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Her behavior is basically "out of sight out of mind".