Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

So here is my idea.

[X] Plan Lawgiver
-[X] (Definition) Molly's people include not just those who serve her directly but also those who are under her protection and any companies that she owns and the things or people that are under her control.
-[X] (General) All those who swore loyalty to Molly has to act as an honorable guest for as long as they stay under Molly's protection, to take no knowing and/or willing action that would be to the detriment of Molly or her people, and, at the minimum, to aid in the defense of Molly and her people's hearth and homes, should they should come under threat. In exchange Molly shall protect them from unjust threats, though any that Molly deem to be of a legitimate nature shall be subject to possible exception. Molly will not stand in the way of those that have a justified reason to seek to harm a person under her protection. The offer of protect is against monsters and killers but Molly will not allow that protection to be used against those who have been have wronged.
-[X] (Feeding/Addiction) Those who have special needs that harm others, are required to cause as little harm to others as is reasonably possible and may only cause permanent harm as a last resort. The exception is combat, where they may use their best judgment depending on the situation. If there is an alternative that does not cause harm to others or themselves, they are required to use that to feed.
-[X] (Money) The Cyber-devils are to monitor the cash flows and act as book-keepers or assist as such. They are to co-ordinate with Molly's people in facilitating purchases and ensuring that the money is spent properly. The regular humans will act as go-betweens, buying things that the ghouls would otherwise not be able to buy and the Ghouls acting as security.
-[X] (Direct employment) Those people who want a direct employment with Molly will be obliged to honestly and sincerely work for the benefit of Molly and her people/Company. They must not betray Molly or her people. They can slack off, but not to the point that Molly and her people suffers for it.
-[X] (Leaving) If people are unhappy, they can always just leave, Molly will make no move to hold them and give them 3 months time to find an alternative, in which they must follow Molly's rules to avail the protection.
-[X] (Promotion) If they want to be promoted, they need to speak to Molly or those appointed by her and be honest in why they deserve a promotion.
-[X] (Exile) If they break the laws, they are kicked out and are no longer under Molly's protection. They may appeal this with Molly who acts as the final judge.

So this lays down the ground rules. There is no direct punishment but I believe we have enough of a carrot that the stick is taking the carrot away.

BronzeTongue said:

I think this situation is a real driver to get our hell as quickly as possible.

A full nation with prisons, reform programs, and resurrective immortality would have a lot easier time humanely dealing with crazed predators.

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Hear! Hear!

This man speak wisdom!

Fouredged Sword said:

You know, a diamond producing company is supposed to have employees, and those employees are expected to get health insurance... We need fake employees anyway to maintain our cover.

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We still have the problem of them not having IDs though. Which makes having a way around that, be it by giving them new ones or finding a way for them not to require them to live (like the proposed thing with charity), the first order of priority once we have a stable organization.

Nyarky said:

Hear! Hear!

This man speak wisdom!



We still have the problem of them not having IDs though. Which makes having a way around that, be it by giving them new ones or finding a way for them not to require them to live (like the proposed thing with charity), the first order of priority once we have a stable organization.

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Well, I best a cyber devil in the local DMV can fix a number of those problems.

Though it may be a good idea to reach out to the church and see if they have any contacts that can help people ether establish or reconnect to identities legally.

Ok, so, I think we should remember the following:
1) Eternal laws don't work, or at least it's unrealistic we can make the laws that will work for this group in perpetuity. We are making a system, but the system will change with time, that's a given.
2) Done is better than Best. It's better we make imperfect laws than we don't make a system at all
3) The laws that won't be followed are bad, no matter how good they look on paper. This means, colloquially that the laws that can't be easily understood by impoverished people of low education with mental problems are bad laws. So, no stuff like proportional voting on stuff, etc.
4) MiS doesn't ensure that our non-human subjects will follow our will, only incentivizes it. There are no punishments built-in for breaking them, except the resumption of Hunger.

I'll try and make a set of rules and proposals later (in four to five hours). For now, I think I'll say the following:
1) I am planning to allocate ~ 50% of our income to this venture. It's currently our largest project
2) We definitely want to put this whole operation in stages. I would dub them something like "gathering" (the current situation, where we gather subjects and stabilize their conditions), "healing" (where we improve the conditions of those gathered), and "using" (where we can start making use of those we gathered), ideally ending with "self-perpatuation" stage, which is self-explanatory.

Yog said:

Eternal laws don't work, or at least it's unrealistic we can make the laws that will work for this group in perpetuity. We are making a system, but the system will change with time, that's a given.

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Agreed there, laws have to take changes in technology and society into account and shouldn't be clung to when they have become obsolete or even a source of more crimes just because *but it was said 200 years ago!*, yes, I have an example in mind, I'm sure some can guess it.

Yog said:

I am planning to allocate ~ 50% of our income to this venture. It's currently our largest project

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Not going to talk about the exact percentage, but I agree that it is our biggest project and should be prioritized.

@DragonParadox do we have to write a law book or is the general spirit of what is to be followed enough?

I am only partially joking as unless you want para after para of legal text, it is best you clarify.

Yzarc said:

@DragonParadox do we have to write a law book or is the general spirit of what is to be followed enough?

I am only partially joking as unless you want para after para of legal text, it is best you clarify.

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General spirit is OK.

So what are we calling our fledgling court? I'm thinking Brass Court for now.

Money

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Can we invest some money into making more money? Preferably without needing to spend AP on that stuff?

Prospalz said:

Can we invest some money into making more money? Preferably without needing to spend AP on that stuff?

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We could make a temp agency to sub contract out employees.

I really wish we had that clone charm now. We are very much lacking in trusted subordinates (who have time on their hands). It to the point that I am considering bringing Isabela into help with management and she has lots of problems of her own. We are that lacking in capable middle management.
@DragonParadox : Maggot Mana Plague (••) satisfies all hungers supernatural or mundane, but does it sate cravings from drug addictions?

fictionfan said:

We could make a temp agency to sub contract out employees.

I really wish we had that clone charm now. We are very much lacking in trusted subordinates (who have time on their hands). It to the point that I am considering bringing Isabela into help with management and she has lots of problems of her own. We are that lacking in capable middle management.
@DragonParadox : Maggot Mana Plague (••) satisfies all hungers supernatural or mundane, but does it sate cravings from drug addictions?

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Yes, that is very much in theme for an infernal charm.

It would be neat if we could start something like an employment agency kind of arrangement to handle our new dependents. If Isabella the Virgin Whampire was willing, she could also be an "employee".

I wonder if Michael would be willing to teach carpentry skills to our people? There's not only a valuable trade skill, but also something very useful to folks who might need to live off the grid. It would be a good excuse to be able to pay Michael a steady salary for his services rather than just giving out family money, which might not go over too well.

Goldfish said:

It would be neat if we could start something like an employment agency kind of arrangement to handle our new dependents. If Isabella the Virgin Whampire was willing, she could also be an "employee".

I wonder if Michael would be willing to teach carpentry skills to our people? There's not only a valuable trade skill, but also something very useful to folks who might need to live off the grid. It would be a good excuse to be able to pay Michael a steady salary for his services rather than just giving out family money, which might not go over too well.

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You could certainly do something like this, it would be its own action of course and also you would probably need someone other than Thomas for the front man, he is already CEO of one shell company.

We should probably handle something before it gets any bigger;
Who knows What, Who should be informed of What, and Who should be introduced to Who?

Sydonai said:

We should probably handle something before it gets any bigger;
Who knows What, Who should be informed of What, and Who should be introduced to Who?

Spoiler: Info about Molly herself

Molly Carpenter bears a Crown of the Thousand Hells. She knows enough about the Hells to ensure that you both go to a specific one when you die and have a good chance of getting back out in reasonable time.
Molly can assuage supernatural Hungers in exchange for Servitude towards her.
Michael Carpenter is Molly's dad, he is also a Knight Of The Cross.
Charity Carpenter is Molly's mother, she is a decent blacksmith.
Molly also has mortal siblings.

Spoiler: the Supernatural in general

Info about mortal magic-users, the White Council and it's Laws, the Vampire Courts, the Denarians, the Fey, the Formorians, etc.
The Vatican knows about Magic and the Supernatural, the Inquisition is technically ongoing.
Project Daedalus is the United States Government's answer to the supernatural, they are corrupt and/or incompetent.
The Library Of Congress is also a thing, they are like Daedalus but actually competent and hopefully less corrupt.

Spoiler: Chicago specific

Harry Dresden is a Wizard/PI, and when he isn't doing Wizard things he can be paid to do PI things.
Mouse is a Good Boy and probably the most powerful dog in the city.
Marcone is the local mob boss, he has Valkyrie Mercenaries on retainer.
Thomas Raith is a White Court Vampire that works for Molly in the position of handling her Artificial Diamond company.
Isabela is another White Court Vampire that serves Molly, albeit of a different family, the specifics of her service haven't been defined yet.
Brother Divismar is a Nepalese Monk that knows and can teach Supernatural Martial Arts.
Lydia is the half-mortal heir of a Death God and a friend of Molly's.
The Order Of The Cauldron exists, Molly and Lydia are Members.
The Jade Dogs exist, they serve Molly in exchange for her patronage.
Rosie is Molly's friend and is being taught How To Magic.
Karin Murphy is a Cop that is In The Know and isn't corrupt.

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Small note, Molly dos not have the power to send anyone to a good hell since she does not have a hell at all. That's a charm you can take, but until you, the players, take that charm Molly only has the barest hint of the potential, one she does not understand IC

Ok, so, let's attempt it. Please note, this is a rough draft. I am open to changing a lot of things, this is currently meant to be a collaborative work. I'll be clearly labeling versions of the plan, and will be updating new versions with different version numbers in new posts. This way, everyone who finds a vote perfect for them, can vote for that version of the plan. Essentially, I am inviting everyone to collaborate on this, rather than to compete, unless we find ourselves with strong differences of opinion as to how things should work, both in means and goals.

[X] Plan "I was made for this" v 1.0
-[X] Leadership excellency, and others as appropriate
-[X][Rules]
--[X] (Definition) Molly's people include not just those who serve her directly but also those who are under her protection and any companies that she owns and the things or people that are under her control.
--[X] (General rules of behavior) Based on guest rights, those who seek Molly's protection should not seek to endanger themselves or others under her protection, should not seek to provoke or endanger others without a cause, should, as they can, work on imrpoving their lives
-[X] (Feeding/Addiction) Those who have special needs that harm others, are required to cause as little harm to others as is reasonably possible and may only cause permanent harm as a last resort. The exception is combat, where they may use their best judgment depending on the situation. If there is an alternative that does not cause harm to others or themselves, they are required to use that to feed. If at all possible, feeding on volunteers, with appropriate compensation, monetary or otherwise, should be prioritized
-[X] (Direct employment) Those people who want a direct employment with Molly will be obliged to honestly and sincerely work for the benefit of Molly and her people/Company. They must not betray Molly or her people. They can slack off, but not to the point that Molly and her people suffers for it.
-[X] (Leaving) If people are unhappy, they can always just leave, Molly will make no move to hold them and give them 3 months time to find an alternative, in which they must follow Molly's rules to avail the protection.
-[X] (Promotion) Institute a system of social credit, where initiative and self-organization are encouraged. The promotions to leadership positions should be based on a mix between competence and popularity, with as many democratic principles as possible
-[X] (Interactions) encourage socialization, helping each other
-[X] (Exile) If they break the laws, they are kicked out and are no longer under Molly's protection. They may appeal this with Molly who acts as the final judge.
-[X][Means]
--[X] Put cyberdevils and Thomas on setting up an official charity with a mission statement of reintroducing those outside of mortal society into it.
--[X] Provisionally set 50% of the funds we have for this activity. Reevaluate the needed cash on the ongoing basis. The money will be in a separate account, accessed through a cyberdevil dedicated to managing it
--[X] Do a census. Get information about who the people who join are. Have cyberdevils run down their details. Interview people with All Things Betray on, and running excellencies as needed to find if there are any unrepentant (or unable to control themseles) serial killers / rapists, or others who are willing and able to do those under your protection harm
--[X] Gather information on what the people need. Medical conditions, food allergies, who has lice, etc. Get someone to handle bulk purchasing necessary supplies: food, hygienic ones, clothes, heaters for the coming winter, entertainment
--[X] Check above ground to find closest warehouse that is still an area of urban blight
--[X] Ask father Forthill and brother Devisimar if they, or other members of their respectful organizations will be interested in helping and/or ministering to the people in the Underground, under your protection and with your help, including monetary help
--[X] Start purchasing cheap but sturdy mobile phones and put cyberdevils into them. They will be distributed around to those who accepted your offer of help, starting from those most in need
--[X] Talk to Bob and Order of Cauldron practitioners about anti-withdrawal potions, and how one could bulk-produce them

Ok, very basic layout. On cyberdevils - the cat is out of the bag (elder Skavis recognized what we were doing).

DragonParadox said:

A People Gathering

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-Eastern European/Middle Eastern/Jewish mother and daughter, probably human trafficking or domestic violence related (Deborah/Almaty; Almaty is either ME or EE in origin). Teenage brother and sister either running from CPS or a family/cult situation(Abel/Theodora).

Longtime homeless man with mental health issues(Dean).
Homeless veteran(James).
3x teenage Whampires.

That, when added to the existing 9x Dogs, bumps commune numbers to 18 people in aggregate.

12 of those are supernaturals, and 12-15 are potential defensive combatants.
Thankfully, the drug users are Whampires, so supernatural biology and the Hunger being a jealous tenant means that we arent really looking at physical addiction or disease as a complication to worry about down here.


-Immediate issues are the three month old and the old dude.
The baby has infant immunizations to receive, and the homeless man has meds to pay for. Molly can cook up a year's supply of Dean's meds trivially with OTC precursors, but the baby needs to go to to a free clinic.


-Watch out for the siblings. Abel and Theodora.
No teenage boy younger than Molly gets that good at melee weapons without training, and training implies someone cared enough to invest effort in training them young.

Let alone knowing how to wield a machete, which is very much not the sort of thing you see in Middle America.
If anyone's going to have dangerous people looking for them, its those two.


-Unexpected IC benefit:
Suddenly finding herself responsible for almost 20 peope will give Molly a grudging appreciation for how her parents(and other parents) must feel when responsible for the welfare of others.
Becoming your mother intensifies

DragonParadox said:

Rolls
Talking to the Humans
Talking to the Vampires

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Human recruitment. 5 successes on a DC7 roll of 14 dice. Legendary.
Vampire recruitment.7 successes on a DC5 roll of 14 dice. Legendary.

Lotta 1's on the human roll, but thankfully Empathy is a Key ability.
AFK for a bit. Back soon

uju32 said:

-Eastern European/Middle Eastern/Jewish mother and daughter, probably human trafficking or domestic violence related (Deborah/Almaty; Almaty is either ME or EE in origin). Teenage brother and sister either running from CPS or a family/cult situation(Abel/Theodora).

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Deborah and Almaty are from Eritrea. Molly does not know that yet, but she will soon. Biblical names are all over the place so it's hard to place them

[x]Yog

Unless someone comes up with something better. I don't see any problems. Well putting the cyber devils sort of in charge might cause some problems, but at least their loyalty is certain meaning that problems should be fairly easy to fix.

fictionfan said:

Unless someone comes up with something better. I don't see any problems. Well putting the cyber devils sort of in charge might cause some problems, but at least their loyalty is certain meaning that problems should be fairly easy to fix.

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The way I see it, we need to automate and delegate as much as possible, or managing this will consume us.

I didn't intend to put cyberdevils in charge. Make them advisers and auditors yes, but not put decisions on them. Self-governance as much as possible should be encouraged as long as everyone follows our directions.

Yog said:

Ok, very basic layout. On cyberdevils - the cat is out of the bag (elder Skavis recognized what we were doing).

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Thats inaccurate.

Leinth Skavis saw us put a cyberdevil in a computer, and we told him we can pull others from our aura with prep.
He doesnt know we can put cyberdevils in phones or anything else electronic. He hasnt seen us do this.
He doesnt know its no-risk for Molly, and that she can do it at will without prior preparation.

And given as HMP costs 1 Essence per use, we cant exactly afford to spam it the way you'd like.

DragonParadox said:

Yes, that is very much in theme for an infernal charm.

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They are Whampires. Supernatural resilience.
Addiction isnt going to be an issue for them. Not given how the Hunger treats all such physical interlopers on its claimed territory.

DragonParadox said:

Deborah and Almaty are from Eritrea. Molly does not know that yet, but she will soon. Biblical names are all over the place so it's hard to place them

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Hmm.
So human trafficking victim, which explains the no papers bit. Probably sexual abuse victim as well, unless the baby is not her own, and given as she's presumably breastfeeding, its hers.

And the fact that the kid is only three months suggests....things about a situation bad enough to make a woman flee underground with a nursing child.

DragonParadox said:

You could certainly do something like this, it would be its own action of course and also you would probably need someone other than Thomas for the front man, he is already CEO of one shell company.

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He can be CEO of as many companies as he wants. Musk is CEO of 5 companies after all

Thing is that its just good infosec security and legal practice for Molly to keep the money and business guy formally separate from the person who has to deal with all the societal outcasts with sketchy legal histories.
Ask Thomas for help informally where relevant, but not

We could probably use Isabella as a figurehead CEO with a cyberdevil minder and a formal paycheck.
Which might have the ancillary benefit of getting her to develop some empathy.
But thats contingent on a bunch of things we arent sure of resolving yet.

I just realized with Maggot Mana Plague (••) we could get Broken Seeker to work for us. Whatever the black council is offering it a steady supply of empowering food beats that offer.

I realize that Broken Seeker is the evilest thing that we have encountered so far by a few country miles. But I have to admit getting it's muscle on our side is tempting and we would have the leverage to basically brainwash it to have any intimacys we want.

fictionfan said:

I just realized with Maggot Mana Plague (••) we could get Broken Seeker to work for us. Whatever the black council is offering it a steady supply of empowering food beats it. I realize that Broken Seeker is the evilest thing that we have encountered so far by a few country miles. But I have to admit getting it's muscle on our side is tempting.

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#naagloshi life

Its a naagloshii.
It was essentially a minor god that refused to return to heaven/a divine realm in favor of staying on Earth and torturing people.
In several thousand years it hasnt changed its mind, or had remorse.

It has no requirement for empowering food. It does this shit because it ENJOYS inflicing pain and fear.

Converting one is not a matter of offering it a better deal or consequences, like with the more rational Whampires.
You need to change its mind and very nature. Thats not the sort of thing that a 2 dot charm is supposed to handle; thats the realm of a plot arc, possibly multiple plot arcs of roleplaying.

Its probably easier to convert Evil Bob.