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The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone

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[x] Plan: Mandate and Outback Prep

So, until a better plan comes along Ill stick to this.

Also just wanna point out that we don't necessarily have to engage the fortified worlds right away. Our priority should be establishing Mandate-wide naval dominance and then aerospace advantage. With that done, we can pick worlds at our leisure.

Preferably, get footholds on ones where friendly forces are strongest. From there we can branch out. If mandate worlds arent self sufficient, this would easily help facilitate letting enemy forces wither on the vine.
 
I'm honestly not a fan of the Mandate and Outback Prep approach. It feels like we're splitting our attention too much between the two areas, where I feel that the Mandate by far deserves more immediate attention and committed resources. As far as I know, the Outback is simmering with tensions, but the Mandate has boiled over into full blown civil war.

I feel that we should be nailing the Mandate with our full attention so we can quickly bowl them over, secure the aftermath, and THEN turn our attention to the Outback afterward.
 
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Kelenas said:
Taurian Concordat
[x] Sunflower Harbours: Temporary assemblages of metal and composite in the shape of the eponymous flower, sunflower harbours are useful for the short-term in-situ support of naval vessels. [Bonus to naval supply situation in a totally hypothetical future conflict]
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Would you consider constructing it on Mandate instead of near Outbreak?

The Mandate is the biggest focus right now. We can build it later in the next turn or two.
 
Aztez Fan said:
You know for all the memes of them not wearing armor, their infantry pretty much wear gyros and the heaviest armor you can imagine made of advanced materials (helps infantry got elemental genes mixed in there). Although again, our only equal is 2000lys away.
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Um? No? Their infantry have a lot more toys and training then our own infantry does. Look at the research tree. Every Blue and Dark Orange tech is something they have access too. The only things they shouldn't have is stuff from our specific tech tree. So we are not equal or even really rivals with the clans yet.
 
I think a fight between our Power armor infantry and clan elementals would be a toss up. Where they send a point of 5 we send a squad of 12. Add gauss weapons to the mix and that fight I'd gonna be bloody for both sides.
 
Silversun17 said:
I think a fight between our Power armor infantry and clan elementals would be a toss up. Where they send a point of 5 we send a squad of 12. Add gauss weapons to the mix and that fight I'd gonna be bloody for both sides.
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Sheilds should help, but Infantry and BA PPC's are frankly deadly as hell so at best it's a stop gap at that scale.
 
Silversun17 said:
If we end up being able to flip our PAL troops into light BA then the equation changes HARD. Especially if project tribal goes through meaning every tank and mech Can have a fire team (6) of light BA tag along.
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Keep in mind Infantry scale ppc's are weirdly a tried and true technology. And do frankly stupid damage, a Support PPC inveneted by the Terrna hegemony in 2470 requires 5 people to use and does 1.58 damage per shot. The one later used for battle armor invented by the combine in 2436 does 2 damage and requires a vehicle or later BA to use. The Man-Pack Partical cannon invented in 2436 does 0.72 damage, and only needs someone with a gyo, exo skeleton, or is just really buff. In short the power of the Towed PPC needs five people for 1.58 damage, the Vehicle/Ba scale does 2 damage for one suit. And 5 buff dudes with Man-packs can do 3.6 damage.

Things get real stupid, very fast when ti comes to PPC's, if only because, the Combine are unholy wizards when it comes to that technology. And while it's never stated i'd be surprised if the PPC compositor wasn't made by them either. Tangent aside, against our sheilds Five buff clanenrs can do 7.2 damage to them. So assuming standard BA shielding is like 30 points (that's being generous when compared to mech ones) that'll get ripped apart in like 4 turns without crits. Which is still impressive. But considering i doubt we'll get Standard BA shields by then, oh boy.
 
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Aztez Fan said:
Keep in mind Infantry scale ppc's are weirdly a tried and true technology. And do frankly stupid damage, a Support PPC inveneted by the Terrna hegemony in 2470 requires 5 people to use and does 1.58 damage per shot. The one later used for battle armor invented by the combine in 2436 does 2 damage and requires a vehicle or later BA to use. The Man-Pack Partical cannon invented in 2436 does 0.72 damage, and only needs someone with a gyo, exo skeleton, or is just really buff. In short the power of the Towed PPC needs five people for 1.58 damage, the Vehicle/Ba scale does 2 damage for one suit. And 5 buff dudes with Man-packs can do 3.6 damage.

Things get real stupid, very fast when ti comes to PPC's, if only because, the Combine are unholy wizards when it comes to that technology. And while it's never stated i'd be surprised if the PPC compositor wasn't made by them either. Tangent aside, against our sheilds Five buff clanenrs can do 7.2 damage to them. So assuming standard BA shielding is like 30 points (that's being generous when compared to mech ones) that'll get ripped apart in like 4 turns without crits. Which is still impressive. But considering i doubt we'll get Standard BA shields by then, oh boy.
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I'm not factoring in sheilds for my evaluation of us vs clan infantry wise. Our BA squads being large enough for actual fire and manuiver tactics should be a lot more deadly then packing sheilds (fire team A shoots at elementals to force them into cover, fire team B flanks and catches elementals in cross fire)
 
Notably the tech tree seems to indicate that we can hypothetically make better battle armor than the clans, though I'm not sure if we'll need something like an elemental in order to actually make full use of them. Although really, making a person without fragile and delicate bones and organs would let us really push the envelope for the amount of power we can put in those limbs, which means with enough cyberization we wouldn't even need elementals.

Aztez Fan said:
Keep in mind Infantry scale ppc's are weirdly a tried and true technology. And do frankly stupid damage, a Support PPC inveneted by the Terrna hegemony in 2470 requires 5 people to use and does 1.58 damage per shot. The one later used for battle armor invented by the combine in 2436 does 2 damage and requires a vehicle or later BA to use. The Man-Pack Partical cannon invented in 2436 does 0.72 damage, and only needs someone with a gyo, exo skeleton, or is just really buff. In short the power of the Towed PPC needs five people for 1.58 damage, the Vehicle/Ba scale does 2 damage for one suit. And 5 buff dudes with Man-packs can do 3.6 damage.

Things get real stupid, very fast when ti comes to PPC's, if only because, the Combine are unholy wizards when it comes to that technology. And while it's never stated i'd be surprised if the PPC compositor wasn't made by them either. Tangent aside, against our sheilds Five buff clanenrs can do 7.2 damage to them. So assuming standard BA shielding is like 30 points (that's being generous when compared to mech ones) that'll get ripped apart in like 4 turns without crits. Which is still impressive. But considering i doubt we'll get Standard BA shields by then, oh boy.
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I mean, there also aren't any clanner battle armors with mounted ppcs, and most infantry scale things die if five dudes shoot them for a prolonged period of time.
Silversun17 said:
I'm not factoring in sheilds for my evaluation of us vs clan infantry wise. Our BA squads being large enough for actual fire and manuiver tactics should be a lot more deadly then packing sheilds (fire team A shoots at elementals to force them into cover, fire team B flanks and catches elementals in cross fire)
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Being able to shoot back is a great way to deal with people shooting at you, having another guy shoot them while you're shooting back is even better.
 
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Silversun17 said:
I'm not factoring in sheilds for my evaluation of us vs clan infantry wise. Our BA squads being large enough for actual fire and manuiver tactics should be a lot more deadly then packing sheilds (fire team A shoots at elementals to force them into cover, fire team B flanks and catches elementals in cross fire)
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Suppose the big thing is mainly training, an Elemental's training is going to be far higher then our's no matter what we do. And frankly while IS standard was good, the casualties i recall where painful at the start. And as comstar learned, you can have alll the training and doctrine, but without literally fighting it wont trump experience. So for that situation, the Elementals would be smart enough to see such a tactic coming, and do as much as possible to prevent getting trapped in such a crossfire. Like idk.....Flying?
 
Aztez Fan said:
Suppose the big thing is mainly training, an Elemental's training is going to be far higher then our's no matter what we do. And frankly while IS standard was good, the casualties i recall where painful at the start. And as comstar learned, you can have alll the training and doctrine, but without literally fighting it wont trump experience. So for that situation, the Elementals would be smart enough to see such a tactic coming, and do as much as possible to prevent getting trapped in such a crossfire. Like idk.....Flying?
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And our forces can pursue also BA has a limited number of jumps per battle so by constantly flushing them out we can run them out.

Also you know the nickname of flying soliders? Skeet.
 
Silversun17 said:
And our forces can pursue also BA has a limited number of jumps per battle so by constantly flushing them out we can run them out.

Also you know the nickname of flying soliders? Skeet.
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Frankly, the issue comes down to just Elemetals being more experienced, and while their culture demands battle, their thick skulls at least recognize when their foes are more numerus, and will change tactics accordingly to face against a numerically superior foe.
 
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Aztez Fan said:
Frankly, the issue comes down to just Elemetals being more experienced, and while their culture demands battle, their thick skulls at least recognize when their foes are more numerus, and will change tactics accordingly to face against a numerically superior foe.
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I'm not saying we are gonna steamroller them but our troops have the numbers, doctrine and gear to make them really have to work for any win even if an elemental is better on a 1 to 1 basis.
 
Silversun17 said:
I'm not saying we are gonna steamroller them but our troops have the numbers, doctrine and gear to make them really have to work for any win even if an elemental is better on a 1 to 1 basis.
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Guess we'll just have to see if they'll even apear. Or if someone else for some reason invents battle armor before us. Even if it's probably a boondoggle.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Aztez Fan on Jan 31, 2023 at 9:28 PM, finished with 123 posts and 18 votes.
  • [x] Plan: Mandate and Outback Prep
    [X]Blitzkrieg
    [x] Dispatch "Trainers" (Mandate): By dispatching a battalion of cybernetically-enhanced special forces units to assist rebel forces, the Republic can covertly strike against targets that would otherwise be impregnable to them.
    [x] Sabotage Nuclear Defences [Hard]: Using agents across the Mandate, we can attempt to sabotage all known and suspected nuclear weapon systems before they can be turned against our forces.
    [X]Blitzkrieg
    -[X] Sunflower Harbours: Temporary assemblages of metal and composite in the shape of the eponymous flower, sunflower harbours are useful for the short-term in-situ support of naval vessels. [+6 Naval Support Capacity]
    -[X] Plant False Intelligence [Easy]: By hiding our real manoeuvres and planting false intelligence amongst Concordat and Coalition civilians, we can disguise the scale of our operations and convince the Mandate that we mean to attack elsewhere should it be looking.
    -[X] Target Will to Fight [Easy]: By targeting Mandate loyalists with propaganda, we can hopefully attack their will to fight against rebels and possibly even convince some to swap sides.
    -[X] Survey Loyalist defences [Medium]: Using agents already embedded in the Mandate, we can survey their defences ahead of time and dramatically reduce their effectiveness so long as the intel is no more than 3 months old.
    -[X] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Easy]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of Mandate ammunition and supplies at the worst possible moment.
    -[X] Mass Decapitation Strike [Medium]: By covertly deploying cybernetically-enhanced special forces units through rebel-held space and holding them near the targets, we can trigger a massive decapitation strike against Mandate personnel at our leisure
    -[X] Air and Space Monitoring Disruption [Medium]: Using those agents not forced to evacuate due to the chaos of the civil war, we can attempt to blind Mandate Air and Space sensors during the initial invasion period.
    -[X] Sabotage Nuclear Defences [Hard]: Using agents across the Mandate, we can attempt to sabotage all known and suspected nuclear weapon systems before they can be turned against our forces.
    -[X] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (9 Noctis BG, 9 Damascus, 12 Hasta IIId, 4th Army, 3 divisions 2nd Army, 14 Battlemech regiments, 1 MAWLR II pack): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Pluto, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
    -[X] Begin Operation Pluto.
    -[X] EX-108 "Wildfire"
    -[X] CD-1 'Bjorn'
    -[X]SAD-03 'Facehugger'
    [x] License Production of Advanced Ammunition: Giving the Confederation blueprints for the construction of specialist ballistic rounds and missiles will allow them to produce a number of projectile types for use by their military. Though the nation lacks the kind of facilities needed to construct these in large quantities, enough could be produced to provide a notable benefit. [-2 influence]
    [x] Sunflower Harbours: Temporary assemblages of metal and composite in the shape of the eponymous flower, sunflower harbours are useful for the short-term in-situ support of naval vessels. [Bonus to naval supply situation in a totally hypothetical future conflict]
    [x] Construct a military defence station over [LOCATION]
    -[x] Mantharaka
    [x] Construct a military defence station over [LOCATION]
    -[x] Contrilla
    [x] Dispatch Material Aid (Combat Vehicles, Mandate): With the Celestial Mandate undergoing a civil war, rebel forces need heavy metal to help level the playing field. On the plus side, we no longer need to smuggle them in! [-40,000,000 C-Bills]
    [x] Prepare War Material Stockpiles: In order to ensure ORDI units fighting in Mandate space will have access to all the resources they need, we should build up stockpiles in nearby systems that can be drawn on as needed. [+0.5 ground support capacity]
    [x] Preplaced Petrusite Supplies: By moving Petrusite stocks ahead of the Republic's forces and building depots in strategic areas, we can more effectively support both naval and ground forces. [+0.25 Ground Support Capacity, +1 Naval Support Capacity]
    [x] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (specify the forces being deployed): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Pluto, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
    -[x]
    [x] CD-1 'Bjorn'
    [x] 'Mace' Squad Support Platform
    [x] Shoulder-mounted micro-missile launchers (MiML)
    [x] EX-017 "Auger"
    [X] Plan Kneecap the Mandate
    [x] Emplace And Prepare Assault Forces (specify the forces being deployed): With every member of the ORDI contributing to Operation Pluto, we should probably assign forces sooner rather than later…
    [X] Plant False Intelligence [Easy]: By hiding our real manoeuvres and planting false intelligence amongst Concordat and Coalition civilians, we can disguise the scale of our operations and convince the Mandate that we mean to attack elsewhere should it be looking.
    [X] Sabotage Loyalist war industry [Easy]: Through the use of subtle and widespread sabotage, we can disrupt the flow of essential war materials to loyalist forces fighting against rebels.
    [X] Target Will to Fight [Easy]: By targeting Mandate loyalists with propaganda, we can hopefully attack their will to fight against rebels and possibly even convince some to swap sides.
    [X] Survey Loyalist defences [Medium]: Using agents already embedded in the Mandate, we can survey their defences ahead of time and dramatically reduce their effectiveness so long as the intel is no more than 3 months old.
    [X] Begin Operation Pluto.
    [X] Ammunition and Supply Sabotage [Easy]: By laying the groundwork ahead of time, we can trigger a widescale sabotage of Mandate ammunition and supplies at the worst possible moment.
    [X] Mass Decapitation Strike [Medium]: By covertly deploying cybernetically-enhanced special forces units through rebel-held space and holding them near the targets, we can trigger a massive decapitation strike against Mandate personnel at our leisure
    [X] 'Mace' Squad Support Platform: Designed by Pharaoh Automata Solutions, the Mace SSP is a largely autonomous weapons platform designed to support squads of infantry with heavy weapons fire from afar. Roughly humanoid in shape, the Mace can provide accurate fire support on the move while keeping up with dismounted infantry. More heavily armoured than ordinary infantry, the Mace features advanced target discrimination systems and can wield weapons intended for power armour units. While too expensive to replace human infantry, the Mace's strength, accuracy, and lack of ability to complain make it an excellent heavy weapons platform.
    [X] Shoulder-mounted micro-missile launchers (MiML): Developed by Lacus Odii State Enterprise for ordinary infantry, shoulder-mounted micro-missile systems are intended for use against power armour systems, other infantry, and battlefield automata. Able to use fragmentation, anti-vehicle, Petrusite, and numerous other warheads, MiMLs offer infantry increased lethality against hard and swarming targets, though at a price high enough that only one or two members of a squad can be outfitted with the system.
    [X] EX-108 "Wildfire"
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10-7 right now. We got a whole week so who knows what will happen.
 
Kanata.EXE said:
Would you consider constructing it on Mandate instead of near Outbreak?

The Mandate is the biggest focus right now. We can build it later in the next turn or two.
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Only very reluctantly. As I said in the plan, I'm trying to keep in mind that we're very likely to fight the FedSuns in the near future as well, and trying to do some prepwork for that, and I think that the increased naval capacity would be more worthwhile against the FedSuns than the Mandate.
 
Kelenas said:
Only very reluctantly. As I said in the plan, I'm trying to keep in mind that we're very likely to fight the FedSuns in the near future as well, and trying to do some prepwork for that, and I think that the increased naval capacity would be more worthwhile against the FedSuns than the Mandate.
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I'm concerned that prepping too fast on fedsun side will provoke them into kicking this into a two front war for the ORDI sooner. We need to damage the mandate enough we can afford a pivot to face the fed suns before we push too much In that area.
 
What do you guys think of having "Search for Available Mercenary Units" as one of the potential actions, at least for next warturn?
 
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