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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Kill the old Vampire
-[X] Activate Melee Excellency and Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (both reflexive, 2 Essence cost)
-[X] (Stunt) There is nothing left to say. They want to protect not the masquerade in general, but the crimes of their kind in particular and you have no reason to aquiescence to that. As you call on the armor of ruin around you bright light spills from your soul, starkly showing the girl's shocked expression and the Elder's lighting-fast attempt to draw his gun. Your sword is in your hand as you jump forward in a thrust hopefully strong enough to break through a true Elders hardened body.
 
[X] Let the two vampires go, odds are they will try again, but maybe Agent Greene will get the evidence to Dedalus before she is killed
-[X] Once they are gone return to speak to Agent Greene
-[X] Have your cyberdemons acquire all of Agent Greene's evidence. Apply new ones to her devices if necessary.
-[X] Leak evidence to Murphy
-[X][Stunt] Alas, I still have questions for her. Try again another day.

Why not play into the misconception?
 
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LightLan said:
Why not play into the misconception?
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Because then we'll have a very dangerous enemy looking into this.

A Vampire Elder might be terrifying if he is in front of you, but he is certainly much worse if you currently can't see him.
Straight combat is a much better option than trying to counter his efforts to bury this issue without knowing what he is doing.

Frankly, in an ambush he could propably even kill us. A Celerity-enhanced surprise-attack, without having up VLE or Steelskin, is absolutly deadly.
 
Advisory: Thomas Raith works for us and may be exposed to risk(Edit: Righteously deserved or otherwise I don't know) depending on the outcome of these events.
 
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Starting a fight here will do all of:

1)kill Greene, because why wouldn't he target her to force us to defend her
2) kill Sitha, because the instant she acts against us our boon ends
3) be loud
4) place us in a place with fresh corpses when we win
5) might still leave us with an enemy if he simply chooses to run. People can do that.
 
[X] Offer to wipe off the evidence of Raith crimes off all of Agent Green's devices
-[X] You will see what crimes Sarah Greene has discovered and, if needed, mettle out justice yourself
-[X] Introduce yourself to your new minion; if her elder attacks on hearing your name, it wouldn't have worked anyway
--[X] If combat starts activate Melee Excellency and Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (both reflexive, 2 Essence cost)
-[X] STUNT: "I see. I understand your worries. There is, however, a piece of critical information you are missing. I am, and will always be, Molly Carpenter, daughter of MIchael Carpenter" you say, bracing for a sudden attack, your hand resting against your chest, ready to draw Usum forth, power of your soul ready to explode out of your body. "If there are crimes against children and innocent Sarah has discovered, I will see them, and mettle the justice out myself, as befits my father's daughter. I will then talk to Sarah, for there is much she, and you, don't know about what killed her husband and on whose orders. I believe this will satisfy everyone here - the wicked get punished, the innocent get protected, and the masquerade stands for now"

Something like this. A compromise. He's not a Raith, so them actually suffering for their crimes shouldn't bother him that much. In fact, it even benefits him, probably, unless he was personally involved in them. We might involve Murphy in shutting down whatever the operation is.

If anyone knows how to introduce ourselves without giving away parts of our true name, please tell me. That's the worst part of the stunt for me.
 
LightLan said:
1)kill Greene, because why wouldn't he target her to force us to defend her
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He won't have time for the if we jump instantly into melee.
You don't go out of your way to kill bystanders if you are barely surviving the sword-wielding maniac in your face.
LightLan said:
2) kill Sitha, because the instant she acts against us our boon ends
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He hunger has already calmed down as far as I can tell.
But even if not, she might die if she stands against us, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.
LightLan said:
3) be loud
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Depending on the situation. We are inside the house now and it is still raining a lot. Unless he has a very loud gun I doubt any neighbour hears us.

And we can remove the corpses with TTC, now that the Elder ensured we don't have to hurry to save Green's life.
 
Yzarc said:
So how does human trafficking come into this? Is it a assumption or something I missed?
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Greene's widow was a spy for House Raith in the FBI anti-human trafficking unit. The fact House Raith thought they needed a spy there suggests quite loudly that the Raith family has involvement there. When House Raith refused to help her seek revenge against her husband's killer, she started investigating House Raith and apparently has good evidence against them she intended to give to what is most likely Daedalus.
 
Yzarc said:
So how does human trafficking come into this? Is it a assumption or something I missed?
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As I understand it, she was a mole of Raiths in FBI Crimes against Children and Human Trafficking department. She was satisfied enough to report to them, and cover for at least some of their actions, diverting FBI's attention. Then her husband got murdered in an obviously (to her) supernatural way. She asked her Raith handlers to exact revenge on her behalf (which likely led to Lara trying to buy Black Rider), but they told her that they wouldn't go out on a limb for her (likely because we got involved, so it's partially our fault the situation is how it is). She decided "ok then, I'll take revenge on my own, including against you, who abandoned me in my time of need". She dug, backtracking whatever evidence she hid for Raiths in the past, and uncovered something big enough to threaten the masquerade. She is now planning to give it to Daedalus to harm Raiths in revenge.

At least this is my interpretation.
 
Artemis1992 said:
At the very least we would hurt the vampires.

Long term evidence of human trafficking is a godsend for someone interested in taking action against the literal or metaphorical bloodsuckers out there.

If this is good evidence, and the vamps wouldn't care if it wasn't, then the FBI could actually do shit like freeze accounts, arrest human collaborators and such. Not just Daedalus-goons going in and dying but proper anti-mafia methods reducing the power and influence of those that live of human suffering.

I don't really think this will escalating to the full breaking of the masquerade, but turning parts of the US-Goverment enforcement apperatus against the White Court is an unequivocally good outcome for me.
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I'm not enthused about the white court either, but random vacillation isn't a good idea either and we already set up a situation where immediate violence is against our interests.

There's also the issue of who'd be acting here. The US government, for sure how it sometimes appears, isn't actually full of fuckups; it can do some pretty remarkable things. However the people who know what's going on aren't competent and the people who are competent don't know what's going on.

Killing the vamp and starting a scuffle between the feds and the white court is just making a mess that probably won't do shit for the victims.

I'm not sure what the solution is for the general problem yet, but I'm pretty confident following through on a revenge scheme we haven't even seen the contents of isn't it.

Destroying the data only stops us from immediately proving things in court, we'd still be able to question Greene and use the crown to pick this situation apart ourselves.

Worst comes to worst we can break the conspiracy ourselves later.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Destroying the data only stops us from immediately proving things in court, we'd still be able to question Greene and use the crown to pick this situation apart ourselves.

Worst comes to worst we can break the conspiracy ourselves later.
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Green is dead in a few days, if she doesn't get full protection and propably even then.

Her secured evidence is the treasure here, not herself.
If that gets lost the Raith will certainly never let her gather new evidence.
 
Random thought: Could Thomas be protected from risk via an immunity deal/testimony against House Raith? Is it within our capabilities to get him one?
 
[X] Kill the old Vampire
-[X] Activate Melee Excellency and Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (both reflexive, 2 Essence cost)
-[X] (Stunt) There is nothing left to say. They want to protect not the masquerade in general, but the crimes of their kind in particular and you have no reason to aquiescence to that. As you call on the armor of ruin around you bright light spills from your soul, starkly showing the girl's shocked expression and the Elder's lighting-fast attempt to draw his gun. Your sword is in your hand as you jump forward in a thrust hopefully strong enough to break through a true Elders hardened body.



If we let human trafficking go here, there is no point to us having been exalted, there is no claims of morality or need that we can make that doesn't make it an evil action. If we back down now and be forced to protectet the monsters out of some stupid desire to take the easy way out, i don't think molly should be able to look herself i the face after that.

You don't bend to the worlds whims when it suggests you take the easy, you tell it to shut up and burn down the world so a new one may be forged.
 
OctarineShrike said:
Crown of Eyes Question idea: Which Individual aware of the supernatural is in the strongest position to influence Daedalus?
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Considering how much of a pain in the ass they can be it might be worth who has influence over it in a general sense and then investigate everyone on the list. That way we can get an idea of what mundane forces are involved in it as well.
Artemis1992 said:
Green is dead in a few days, if she doesn't get full protection and propably even then.

Her secured evidence is the treasure here, not herself.
If that gets lost the Raith will certainly never let her gather new evidence.
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The premise of the deal we make with them would be deleting the evidence in exchange for them not killing Greene.

We don't need her to gather new information, she can tell us her conclusions and we can act on them if we want to. Or we can just ask the crown "What information was on this computer related to the operations of the white court?"

No result we get would be immediately useful to convict anyone, but we can still vote to stab them over it.

Edit:

And really, killing the older vampire doesn't actually do anything about the human trafficking ring. We still have to do that all ourselves, because Daedalus can't find its own ass with a map and two task forces.
 
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Acolyte said:
If we let human trafficking go here, there is no point to us having been exalted, there is no claims of morality or need that we can make that doesn't make it an evil action. If we back down now and be forced to protectet the monsters out of some stupid desire to take the easy way out, i don't think molly should be able to look herself i the face after that.
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We don't need to fight him to not let the trafficking go.

All we need to do is to secure the evidence.
Getting him to leave is more than sufficient for that.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Considering how much of a pain in the ass they can be it might be worth who has influence over it in a general sense and then investigate everyone on the list. That way we can get an idea of what mundane forces are involved in it as well.

The premise of the deal we make with them would be deleting the evidence in exchange for them not killing Greene.

We don't need her to gather new information, she can tell us her conclusions and we can act on them if we want to. Or we can just ask the crown "What information was on this computer related to the operations of the white court?"

No result we get would be immediately useful to convict anyone, but we can still vote to stab them over it.

Edit:

And really, killing the older vampire doesn't actually do anything about the human trafficking ring. We still have to do that all ourselves, because Daedalus can't find its own ass with a map and two task forces.
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We can't stab the entire White Court ourselves.

Using Green's evidence to let the FBI and Daedalus do the stabbing is our best way to hurt the White Court.

And if they are smart enough to get the mundane parts of FBI and other law-enforcement involved they can really damage those involved with mundane crimes, like human trafficking.
You don't need superpowers to freeze mafia-accounts.
 
LightLan said:
We don't need to fight him to not let the trafficking go.

All we need to do is to secure the evidence.
Getting him to leave is more than sufficient for that.
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Moreover, we don't need to break the masquerade to punish those involved. "Knight of the Cross (adjacent force) expressed displeasure at a supernatural force with sword and fire for harming innocents" is "business as usual" for supernatural community. Most would just nod at that, and go on with their business, reminded that humans have protectors.
 
OctarineShrike said:
Frankly Greene's widow probably deserves some kind of punishment if she wasn't enthralled as well ethically speaking.
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Since she flipped she probably wasn't enthralled. Which isn't super surprising since most varieties of mind control in the Dresden Files have unfortunate long term consequences on the subject, especially for long term ones.

White court vamps can be less damaging than some others, in particular other vampires, but the more delicate and long term the position the more that risk starts to matter.

Having your FBI mole start to act oddly because the SAN chip damage finally piled up into something noteworthy is less than ideal.
 
Yog said:
Moreover, we don't need to break the masquerade to punish those involved. "Knight of the Cross (adjacent force) expressed displeasure at a supernatural force with sword and fire for harming innocents" is "business as usual" for supernatural community. Most would just nod at that, and go on with their business, reminded that humans have protectors.
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The fire and sword approach is very inefficient against large-scale crime.

Going full superhero, saving a few people and killing a few vamps is more likely to get us attacked by the mortal authorities than to change anything substantial.
And charging in to kill Lara or some stunt like that would propably get us killed.

There's a giant mechanism for punishing crimes in America, we are much better of using it than ignoring it.
 
Crown of eyes question Idea: Are there any circumstances I might consider mitigating behind Greene's Widow's decision to spy for House Raith?
 
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