Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Names for cover companies should be the auditory equivalent of beige paint. Something like Chicago Synthetics, Lakeside Technologies, or Hillcrest Dynamics.
We don't actually want attention, so something that would stand out from a list is less useful.

The threadmark title is a duplicate of the last one.
It occurs to me that Molly doesn't really have any use for her piercings anymore. She is far more metal in her Sunday best then the radist rockstar ever. When it comes to image control her piercings don't do anything for her.

I think that one of the canon Infernals actually wore a nuns habit (which makes no sense in creation where nuns aren't a thing, but whatever).
Not sure I totally agree with that. Molly's look is partially a rebellion thing, but she kept it up long enough that I think she either genuinely had or else genuinely developed a taste for the aesthetic on its own merits.

Being infernal, or almost any celestial exalt type, seems like the sort of thing to give you the confidence to pull off anything you care to wear, but not necessarily change it that much if you're already comfortable.
 
Names for cover companies should be the auditory equivalent of beige paint. Something like Chicago Synthetics, Lakeside Technologies, or Hillcrest Dynamics.
We don't actually want attention, so something that would stand out from a list is less useful.
Good point. I agree with this, @Yog. Neat names are fun, but in this case we're probably better off being as thoroughly bland as possible. Any chance you could update the name in your plan?
 
[X] [Name] Chicago Synthetics
[X] [Warehouse] Buy
[X] [Greene] Go to his house to use the Crown on the murder scene and talk to his wife

Just to get one on the board. The name seems suitably boring for what we need.

It's also worth remembering, for those of you who don't agree or don't care about proverbially speeding in a stolen car, that this company is probably going to be dead and buried in a few months anyway. We just need it until we get something less labor intensive going.

No reason to waste the good references on a corporate mayfly.
 
If we can actually find and get Green's killer properly arrested it will likely very much improve Harry's relationship with Chicago PD. Of course if it's a fairy or something that is likely impossible. Very hard to arrest something with no identity.
 
[X] [Name] Chicago Synthetics
[X] [Warehouse] Buy
[X] [Greene] Go to his house to use the Crown on the murder scene and talk to his wife
 
Later, once we have deniable financial systems set up for stuff, we could set something up we're meant to be found through.

Tool Transcending Consultations, Green Sun Security, Mo Kongporated, or whatever, but we should stick to doing that sort of thing during efforts meant to grab attention.
 
[X] [Name] Chicago Synthetics
[X] [Warehouse] Buy
[X] [Greene] Go to his house to use the Crown on the murder scene and talk to his wife
 
So uh, why do we want to talk to the widow? Is it just out of abstract desire to do what seems right, or is there something we are planning to get out of it?

Because from my perspective it looks like we would be causing her extra grief for no real purpose.
 
Good point. I agree with this, @Yog. Neat names are fun, but in this case we're probably better off being as thoroughly bland as possible. Any chance you could update the name in your plan?
Yeah, sure.

[X] [Name] Chicago Synthetics
[X] [Warehouse] Buy
[X] [Greene] Go to his house to use the Crown on the murder scene and talk to his wife
-[x] wet yourself beforehand. You suspect that you are going to want all your charm for this.
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] All Things Betray
-[X] STUNT: The you who is walking up the stairs of detective Greene's house under the heavy autumn rain is not the you who goes to school or slays vampires. She is, in fact, closest to the you who goes to church - proper, respectable and respectful. Someone who a still-grieving trained to fight widow would at least start listening, when you tell her some very unbelievable things. Gone are the piercings, and bright colors - a neat, if inexpensive business suit takes their place. The lack of an umbrella only slightly mars your look. Bracing yourself, you expand your senses and prepare yourself for a hard talk, even as you push the doorbell's button.

It occurs to me that Molly doesn't really have any use for her piercings anymore. She is far more metal in her Sunday best then the radist rockstar ever. When it comes to image control her piercings don't do anything for her.

I think that one of the canon Infernals actually wore a nuns habit (which makes no sense in creation where nuns aren't a thing, but whatever).
Well, on the pragmatic side, piercings give you additional places to anchor magical enchanted rings to.
Being infernal, or almost any celestial exalt type, seems like the sort of thing to give you the confidence to pull off anything you care to wear, but not necessarily change it that much if you're already comfortable.
I mean, almost by definition whatever we wear will be the height of fashion because we are wearing it - we are the Celestial Exalt, after all.
If we can actually find and get Green's killer properly arrested it will likely very much improve Harry's relationship with Chicago PD. Of course if it's a fairy or something that is likely impossible. Very hard to arrest something with no identity.
Daedalus thought that the killer was some sort of supernatural entity of high classification. Chances are we'll be killing, not arresting it. Unless we can intimidate it into serving its sentence dutifully.
 
[X] Yog

I honestly don't care much about Greene. But the opportunity to snoop around is kinda fun, so I'm going to go with Yog's plan.
 
[X] Yog

While I don't mind talking to Greene's wife, please tell me that we're not going to vote to meet the families of every random supernatural attack victim we come across? Especially to break the mask for them needlessly?
 
[X] Yog

While I don't mind talking to Greene's wife, please tell me that we're not going to vote to meet the families of every random supernatural attack victim we come across? Especially to break the mask for them needlessly?
While in general my position is that masquerade that isn't primarily about protecting humanity (and it isn't) should be abolished (in a controlled fashion to prevent mass civil disruptions), in this specific case my reasoning in that we could get an ally on the inside of FBI out of this. Revenge is an easy motivator, and if we can get her revenge for her husband, she should be grateful.
 
While in general my position is that masquerade that isn't primarily about protecting humanity (and it isn't) should be abolished (in a controlled fashion to prevent mass civil disruptions), in this specific case my reasoning in that we could get an ally on the inside of FBI out of this. Revenge is an easy motivator, and if we can get her revenge for her husband, she should be grateful.
Are you sure? Because we don't know anything about her, she may have hated her husband, or gone into a deep depression, or not the revenge type, etc. While I'm voting for you on this, this action seems like a bit of a waste of time and that we'll spend at least one more update on it before heading back to fulfill our plans.

And in Dresden the masquerade was never for the protection of mankind or because the supernatural is afraid of it, only the naive and the novice believe that (I am still in disbelief that Molly said that rubbish to her friends when she was introducing things, she should have known better ). It is only in practice because the supernatural super powers don't want to spend resources on unnecessary war and (my personal headcanon) because humanity has the interest of the White God.

We've had conversations on this subject before, and we agree that the collective effort of humanity, something which in itself is nearly impossible to muster, is a threat only to the mid-level and low-level powers, even with atomic bombs and other modern weapons.
 
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Daedalus thought that the killer was some sort of supernatural entity of high classification. Chances are we'll be killing, not arresting it. Unless we can intimidate it into serving its sentence dutifully.
Shame we haven't taken any of the curses there are a few that would work for that. Mostly in our favored hells.
 
Are you sure? Because we don't know anything about her, she may have hated her husband, or gone into a deep depression, or not the revenge type, etc. While I'm voting for you on this, this action seems like a bit of a waste of time and that we'll spend at least one more update on it before heading back to fulfill our plans.
That's true. There's a moral argument that she deserves at least some closure. Pragmatically we don't want her to blame Dresden (because with how he got off, she'd be pretty justified in still thinking he was responsible). Opportunistically an ally in the FBI would be useful, and she might become one, depending on how this goes.
And in Dresden the masquerade was never for the protection of mankind or because the supernatural is afraid of it, only the geniuses and novices believe that (still I am in disbelief that Molly said that rubbish to her friends when she was introducing things, she should have known better ). It is only in practice because the supernatural super powers don't want to spend resources on unnecessary war and (my personal headcanon) because humanity has the interest of the White God.
Word of Jim on the issue is that humanity as a whole is actually a force that represents serious danger to supernaturals:
(and shouldn't the black court be the most numerous? in blood rites, ebenezer mentioned after a few weeks, there would be dozens or even hundreds of vamps, so y don't the black court vamps just settle down in africa or india and start biting away?)
Nukes. :)
You get all /that/ assertive, and you risk stirring mortals into awareness. And we monkeys are /dangerous/ in large groups, especially with all our ferromancy (technology).
There's also a psychological issue on behalf of the vampires. Bear in mind that evolution made a pretty brutal selection among the Black Court. The ones who survived and prospered were those who avoided notice, respected the potential danger mortals represented, and who were generally quick to leave town rather than charge into a confrontation.
In any personal-scale conflict, a mature BC vamp is gonna tear holes through any mortal or White Court vampire. But the mortals started cheating, and doing all their fighting in angry mobs, and creating weapons that were ridiculously overpowered for the job of killing one another which could actually inconvenience, wound, or even kill a BC vamp. Murphy did all right in that BC nest, because she had allies, appropriate weapons and (most importantly) knowledge and a plan.
Yes, the answer was about Black Court vampires, but the phrasing and logic applies in general. There's nothing speaking about easy to exploit weaknesses. Only that a large sum of mortals equipped with "cheating" technology (ferromancy, and isn't that an interesting word) would be a danger in direct confrontation against vampire-level supernaturals.
 
The problem is not the confontration between individual supernaturals and angry mobs, the problem is what would happen if there were large-scale confrontations between say USA and Winter, because the latter is allowing its citizens to freely hunt in America.

That one would be ugly and propably have no real winners.
With the minor supernaturals, like Changelings and practicioners propably loosing the most as a side-effect of the actual confrontation.
 
The problem is not the confontration between individual supernaturals and angry mobs, the problem is what would happen if there were large-scale confrontations between say USA and Winter, because the latter is allowing its citizens to freely hunt in America.

That one would be ugly and propably have no real winners.
With the minor supernaturals, like Changelings and practicioners propably loosing the most as a side-effect of the actual confrontation.
Oh, agreed. But both USA government (and UN assembly in general, representing huamnity as a whole) and Winter are not stupid, and would know that in an all-out conflict there will be no winners. The point is that the conflict wouldn't be "Winter wipes out all human resistance while suffering no casualties, Mab installs Winter Knight as the Emperor of USA". It would be "everyone loses". Mundane humanity fully aware of supernatural is a peer opponent (or at least peer-ish), not cattle. It needs to be worked around, bargained and compromised with, or everyone loses. This means that masquerade as it stands now is primarily for the benefit of supernatural factions.
 
Oh, agreed. But both USA government (and UN assembly in general, representing huamnity as a whole) and Winter are not stupid, and would know that in an all-out conflict there will be no winners. The point is that the conflict wouldn't be "Winter wipes out all human resistance while suffering no casualties, Mab installs Winter Knight as the Emperor of USA". It would be "everyone loses". Mundane humanity fully aware of supernatural is a peer opponent (or at least peer-ish), not cattle. It needs to be worked around, bargained and compromised with, or everyone loses. This means that masquerade as it stands now is primarily for the benefit of supernatural factions.
Not sure about the conclusion.
The biggest benefactors of the Masquerade are indeed the individual or minor supernaturals.
The Practicioners who can avoid witchhunts in most countries, of course also the ghouls and vampires who can relativly freely prey on humans. And possibly the Wizards who can act with some impunity by their own laws without much concern for the states they live in.

But the risk of going from this balance that kinda favors the supernatural factions to full openness is real devastation and war.
Mab herself might be somewhat above the threat, but the Red Court can get bombed like any hostile force and the White Council is also at serious risk of loosing any generally known assets, like their HQ in Edinburgh.
While in retaliation mundane states and the humans living therein could suffer a lot of damage.

I'm generally in favor of breaking the masquerade, but looking at the current crop of world leaders I'm not sure we can expect reasonable reactions with decent outcomes.
 
Catching up.
COMMENTARY
-So extraterrestrial life. None of which has been to Earth, or has any relevance to Earthside affairs afaik.

-The life thing basically is Catholic/Christian creation myth, with a sidepiece of the Flood destroying the nephilim.
People focusing on the jaguars thing as a sign of Mesoamerican significance are missing the fact that its very similar to the Flood myth of the Old Testament, and several other cultures as well.

Murdering the Red Court is certainly on our list of things to do; this doesnt really change anything there.

-Brown University. Over in Rhodes Island.
Founded in 1794.
Exactly the sort of information I expect that would be in the supernatural grapevine anyway.


Perhaps Im being a little grumpy, but I still think we burned questioms to no real utility.
At least the QM had fun.
Now that we have all of those coordinates for the locations of life throughout the universe, could we conceivably reach some of them using the NeverNever as a shortcut? If possible, it seems like something that would require us to delve incredibly deep into the NeverNever, so the danger would probably be appropriately outrageous. A long-term stretch goal if there ever was one, years from now when we're powerful enough to want to explore a bit further afield than our own cosmic backyard.
The use of a base 8 numbering system implies there's at least some intelligent life, but that doesnt mean that there's technological life, or carbon-oxygen life. An Avatar-style intelligent ecology like Pandora would be life. Space whales grazing on the currents of solar wind would be life. A society of energy life forms on the surface of a star would still be life.

All of which would be fascinating in an intellectual sense, and none of which have any relevance to us in the next couple of decades.

This seems workable. I mean you would still have to pay for the power, but you could certainly draw it and it would take a hell of a lot less time than figuring out how to plug a microwave into the Dragon Line.
Much more prudent to arrange taps into physically adjacent power lines, I think, than to try to arrange a dedicated line from a property that can be linked to our civilian identity. Especially since there are hard limits to what energy draw is reasonable in a residential or light industrial neighborhood.

Then diversify power sources next time we upgrade the Dragons Nest to Tier 2.

I mean, Last Station is historically, structurally, and more importantly, thematically linked to the Chicago rapid transit train system, which runs on 600 volt direct current. Molly can pull power from there and it would probably be well within the margin of error of routine power losses.

Peak electricity use of the Empire State Building around 2010 was allegedly 9.5MW according to Scientific American.
We can come in much, much, much lower than that.
I'm really starting to get into that "God is an overgrown Siddie" theory.They must be pretty careful right now, another Exalted showing up, one very hard to manipulate via Fate, can be a big asset, but could also ruin the whole deal.
Doubt that very much.
Sids dont wield the sort of power that angels do, let alone the White God.

2) Murphy's armor we should be making. So, barring magical materials, the strongest and lightest material we are likely to use is carbon based (carbon nanotubes, diamonds, etc). The strongest mystical carbon we are likely to get would be willingly sacrificed human ashes. We should aim for ones with the strongest resonance to Murphy. What does this mean in practice? If I was disregarding social issues, I would aim for Murphy's father's ashes (with Lydia talking to his ghost to get his agreement). However, that's basically impossible. Plus he's a suicide victim, so his ghost might be in hell (rescue him as a favor to Murphy? Something to think about).
1)That does not follow. Dresdenverse craft isnt big on the use of human remains.
Neither is Exalted actually; ghosts and souls sure, but human ashes no.
Dunno WoD well enough to speak definitively.

Regardless of which, Karrin certainly isnt going to be thrilled to be wearing her father's corpse.
Nor will her family be enthused that someone desecrated the grave and made off with the body.
Not exactly Balenciaga.


2)Captain Jack Murphy allegedly committed suicide. Whether that was suicide or "suicide" has never been addressed in the story.
Nevertheless, as of Ghost Story his soul was explicitly working for Uriel's shop in some sort of covert ops halfway house for the dead who werent ready to pass on to the afterlife proper. Dresden met him.

He's not in Lydia's jurisdiction. His ghost isnt floating around to be summoned.


3)Until we have Exalted Crafting or Enchantment?
We actually cant make any armor for Murphy thats better than her standard kevlar vest for day to day work.

Thought it was stated they had them sealed away, but the gods were still alive.
Most likely caught them in a vulnerable position, and used magic to seal them away.
The RPG and part of Changes imply the gods are alive, just imprisoned.

It's really not as it's a very easily exposable thing which our enemies could use patsies to poke holes at. We can win the lottery then go into different businesses.
If you're not passing synthetic stones off as natural and are paying your taxes, there's literally nothing to poke at.
Thats precisely why we voted to simply claim to be selling synthetics.
Do not mistake a preference for a low profile for actual legal liability.



COMMENTARY

-North Lawndale is 90% black, with a median household income of $26k.

-Basically, this place is poor as shit.
White blonde Molly with her hundred kay Merc sportscar are going to stand out like a cassocked priest in a whorehouse.
Very high chance of breakins, or activities masquerading as breakins, if any rumors about diamond testing get out.

Im halfway expecting someone to try to steal our car tires, like how Jason Todd first met Batman.


-$20k cash for a four thousand foot facility? With a parking lot?
Asbestos or not, either the seller is desperate, or Thomas is a very smooth talker.
Maybe both.


-The cameras are gone? Yeah, I have questions about who owns this place now,
That, and the fact that the steel table on which the body was allegedly dismembered wasnt confiscated and in police forensics is very much a sign that the fix is in.

Im betting that because we are buying this place through Thomas, they are unaware of any limks between the new buyer and the Greene case. I really want the receipts and financial records of the person or corporate entity who owned this facility before us.


-The perpetrator was either a shapeshifter or an illusionist. Could put up a veil.
Made sure that Greene died in agony over ten seconds or less, which suggests either animus or sadism; a victim taken by surprise should have died without even knowing what happened.

This sounds very much like Greene got murdered by one of the fetches from Proven Guilty.
Alternatively, a Malvora-adjacent Whampire, assuming that there was one with magic capabilities. Or a wizard.
But probably a fetch.

So uh, why do we want to talk to the widow? Is it just out of abstract desire to do what seems right, or is there something we are planning to get out of it? Because from my perspective it looks like we would be causing her extra grief for no real purpose.
Because Molly gets her best information face to face.
If the dude was murdered under a veil in his own backyard, either his wife didnt notice any blood in their backyard, it was cleaned up before she got home, or she cleaned it up. All are important pieces of information.
 
-The perpetrator was either a shapeshifter or an illusionist. Could put up a veil.
Made sure that Greene died in agony over ten seconds or less, which suggests either animus or sadism; a victim taken by surprise should have died without even knowing what happened.

This sounds very much like Greene got murdered by one of the fetches from Proven Guilty.
Alternatively, a Malvora-adjacent Whampire, assuming that there was one with magic capabilities. Or a wizard.
But probably a fetch.
Its also the Skinwalker M.O.
 
Not sure I totally agree with that. Molly's look is partially a rebellion thing, but she kept it up
Canonically she drops most, if not all of them as she gets older.
Yes, the answer was about Black Court vampires, but the phrasing and logic applies in general. There's nothing speaking about easy to exploit weaknesses. Only that a large sum of mortals equipped with "cheating" technology (ferromancy, and isn't that an interesting word) would be a danger in direct confrontation against vampire-level supernaturals.
No it doesnt.
Everyone wanted the Black Court's power broken for their own purposes, and nobody wants them rebuilding their power.
Not at all the same thing here.

Oh, agreed. But both USA government (and UN assembly in general, representing huamnity as a whole) and Winter are not stupid, and would know that in an all-out conflict there will be no winners. The point is that the conflict wouldn't be "Winter wipes out all human resistance while suffering no casualties, Mab installs Winter Knight as the Emperor of USA". It would be "everyone loses". Mundane humanity fully aware of supernatural is a peer opponent (or at least peer-ish), not cattle. It needs to be worked around, bargained and compromised with, or everyone loses. This means that masquerade as it stands now is primarily for the benefit of supernatural factions.
Winter vs the UN would be very much a case of "Winter wipes out all human resistance while suffering no casualties".
The power balance is adverse, even with most of Winter's purely military forces at the Outer Gates.
Thats why Summer exists, to oppose Winter. Else Winter would be able to roll the planet at its leisure if it saw the need.

They just dont.

Its the smaller scale powers that are a case of noone wins.
Because there you have the whole issue of Master/Stranger effects from people who can brainhack your commanders and travel through the NeverNever. Wanna find out what a motivated Whampire can do?

That... would not go well. The car is both alive and malicious.
Oh I know :V
This is still the sort of neighborhood where that would happen.
Or some unfortunate soul would try to mug Molly.

Its also the Skinwalker M.O.
That.....is a very good point.
Skinwalkers are supposed to be geographically limited most of the time, and lose power outside their territories.
But there's always exceptions.

Cant imagine how a homicide detective in Chicago would have managed to piss off a naagloshii.
 
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