Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I really wonder if we couldn't just claim we are a Wizard and cast "Summon Diamond".

After all Harry the Wizard is in the phonebook.

Sure, nobody not in the know would believe it, but we don't have to care about that.
 
You are indeed under no legal obligation to reveal trade secrets, but strictly legal tools are not the only issue at hand, there are all sorts of ways the government could make your life hard to get you to show them the goose that lays the diamond eggs and that is not even mentioning industrial espionage.
Sounds like a reason to buy the organization sabotage charm if they do that :)
 
That would be a waste of a good prison sentence. We should spend the time in jail turning the entire prison population and the guards into our personal cult that we train to super human extent.

Yeah, the funny thing with CCC is that it doesn't encourage you to escape fast, on the contrary, you are better while there, why not stay a little and enjoy the bonuses? As long as you can say *it's to get out eventually* you can milk the imprisonment for all these sweet, sweet successes.
 
Hmm... vote looks too close to call at just one vote difference with discussion ongoing. I think I'm going to leave this up until tomorrow.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 10, 2023 at 1:19 PM, finished with 176 posts and 44 votes.

  • [X] A small mining operation, try to make diamonds that could pass for natural
    [X] An innovative diamond creating start up, make high quality but obviously artificial diamonds
    -[X] Have Thomas gather the list of properties for sale, then use the Crown on the list to arrange them starting from the one that has the most unclaimed and undiscovered supernatural power within its borders, including buried underneath it. Use the sales announcements of the properties to check what kind of magical power each one has.
    --[X] Have Thomas gather the list of properties for sale, then use the Crown on the list to arrange them starting from the one that has the most unclaimed and undiscovered supernatural power within its borders, including buried underneath it. Use the sales announcements of the properties to check what kind of magical power each one has.
    -[X] Ask Thomas if he'd be willing to be the public owner of the company to reduce the odds of investigation from interest parties
    -[X] Ask Thomas to set up the diamond mining company as an entity in his name, to be used to sell our highest quality diamonds.
    —[X] Any diamond that isn't up to snuff should be stockpiled in Molly's room.
    -[X] Ask Thomas to begin looking into the process of setting up a pair of jewelry supply companies, one somewhere outside the country that isn't interested in looking into foreign business and one in the US. The former of which at least should be as difficult as possible to trace to either of them.
    —[X] Long term the goal is to launder the artificial diamonds through the overseas supply company to the local one, while very carefully paying all relevant taxes and avoiding lies on any part of the operation past the necessary deceptions on ownership and gem source. No need to invite trouble.
    [X] Plan Magical Diamond in the Rough
    [X] Actually you have another idea
    -[X] Claim both. You will sell diamonds that pass as natural as diamonds obtained from the mine, and diamonds that don't, as artificial ones, made in the facility located in Africa where the "mine" is.
    --[X] Have Thomas put it in his name.
    -[x] A mysterious startup with a reclusive genius gives cover for all sorts of other inventions and technologies. It can charter airplanes and order exotic supplies, or hire people for whimsical tasks.
    -[X] Have Thomas put it in his name.
    -[X] LLC named Green Sun Investments
    [X] Plan Diamond in the Rough
    [x]Null
 
You are indeed under no legal obligation to reveal trade secrets, but strictly legal tools are not the only issue at hand, there are all sorts of ways the government could make your life hard to get you to show them the goose that lays the diamond eggs and that is not even mentioning industrial espionage.
That would be Plot.
Industrial espionage involves stealing documents or bribing employees.
Not an issue here.

===
Theranos claimed a revolutionary new blood testing procedure that would have drastically improved military diagnostics as well as civilian ones. They actively advertised. Their market valuation hit the double digit billions. Ex-SecState George Schultz and Henry Kissinger were on the board. So was ex-four star Marine General John Mattis.

Nobody in govt paid enough attention to realize it was a scam for ten years.

I doubt the government has any interest in a small, private, domestic company producing boutique amounts of cosmetic gemstones. And their pressure levers are limited against domestic targets that arent breaking the law.
Actually easier to fuck with foreign companies, or companies with foreign operations, that way.

Their assumption is going to be more along the lines of "an existing maker has a new storefront" or some other chicanery.
 
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Ok for this kind of inspection, there is still:


That, a new scientific process is way more interesting than one little diamond mine.

Oh sure it's interesting, but from my experience that generally translates to "Huh neat," and maybe a offhand mention at the dinner table vs "WE MUST FIND THE SECRETS." I really think DP is also overestimating how "golden goose" a business with an expected turnaround of a few hundred thousand max in revenue would be for a city the size of Chicago. Like small scale boutique crafting is small scale boutique crafting, the revenue from Molly's Diamonds R Us is not making or breaking the budget.

Yes the gov has all sorts of levers to pull to hypothetically make Molly's life difficult but generally ime the gov does not care how the goose is cooked so long each Dep gets what they want (Finance gets paid, Inspectors don't see anything that looks like it'll kill someone in the next week, etc). If someone does start pulling shit I'd really expect it to be from someone using this as an excuse vs someone legit being that interested in this small kooky business out of the many weird things that already exist in Chicago. And in that case anything with any legal trail could hypothetically be used for that.
 
Then there's Airbus' Pleiades and Spot satellites, EROS out of Israel, NASA's Landsat program et cetera.
Your cow pasture will show up as a cow pasture.
It's 2006, not 1966.
Again, how often are the images updated? If it's less often than once per half a year, that's not an issue at all.
New process. Original Character, Do Not Steal. :V
Not to sound like a broken record, but we are literally under no obligation to share the specifics, any more than say Coca Cola has to share their drink formula or KFC their spice formula.
They do have to share their formulas, though, in order to show that they are safe and have jo stuff like coke or meth in them. And they have to pass safety inspections. It should be far easier to bribe a local African government than USA federal government.

The safety regulations aren't just something to wave away. You can't just say "no, there are no dangers involved in my new undisclosed innovative diamond making process". You have to demonstrate that there are no dangerous chemicals, flammable or explosive materials involved, etc.

And then there's an issue of economy of scale. You made a new and very cheap process and aren't expanding? Someone will want to buy it off you. And when you won't agree, that's going to cause interest. And I got the impression we didn't want interest directed at us from the mundane world.

Make no mistake, a startup is probably viable, but that's the path of Molly becoming new Elon Musk eventually.
 
Seriou
Oh sure it's interesting, but from my experience that generally translates to "Huh neat," and maybe a offhand mention at the dinner table vs "WE MUST FIND THE SECRETS." I really think DP is also overestimating how "golden goose" a business with an expected turnaround of a few hundred thousand max in revenue would be for a city the size of Chicago. Like small scale boutique crafting is small scale boutique crafting, the revenue from Molly's Diamonds R Us is not making or breaking the budget.

Yes the gov has all sorts of levers to pull to hypothetically make Molly's life difficult but generally ime the gov does not care how the goose is cooked so long each Dep gets what they want (Finance gets paid, Inspectors don't see anything that looks like it'll kill someone in the next week, etc). If someone does start pulling shit I'd really expect it to be from someone using this as an excuse vs someone legit being that interested in this small kooky business out of the many weird things that already exist in Chicago. And in that case anything with any legal trail could hypothetically be used for that.
Off by one or two orders of magnitude revenue there.
But the basic argument is sound.

I mean, we just literally lived through the entire cryptocurrency kerfluffle.
It was obviously a scam. People warned it was a scam. The US government didnt raise a finger and let it play out as tens and hundreds of millions of dollars sloshed around, only getting involved when obvious crimes were committed.

When its not immediately criminal, the US govt will demonstrably let a lot of fishy stuff run on. It is patient.
Hell, anyone remember how long Bernie Madoff ran his Ponzi scheme?

Again, how often are the images updated? If it's less often than once per half a year, that's not an issue at all.
Landsat and Digital Global were allegedly weekly back then.
I know that PlanetLabs is within a day, but PlanetLabs was only formed in 2010.

They do have to share their formulas, though, in order to show that they are safe and have jo stuff like coke or meth in them. And they have to pass safety inspections. It should be far easier to bribe a local African government than USA federal governmen
No they dont.
That is done by food and health inspectors checking the finished products.
Which are freely available.

The safety regulations aren't just something to wave away. You can't just say "no, there are no dangers involved in my new undisclosed innovative diamond making process". You have to demonstrate that there are no dangerous chemicals, flammable or explosive materials involved, etc.
Previously addressed.
With the actual commetary of someone with some insight into US regulatory schemes.

And then there's an issue of economy of scale. You made a new and very cheap process and aren't expanding? Someone will want to buy it off you. And when you won't agree, that's going to cause interest. And I got the impression we didn't want interest directed at us from the mundane world.

Make no mistake, a startup is probably viable, but that's the path of Molly becoming new Elon Musk eventually.
The fact that you arent selling the process implies that it doesnt scale.
So will there be some interest? Yes.
But nothing more than that.

A smallscale operation that stays resolutely private, and shares no details of its proprietary process is weird.
But not an attention-drawing sensation, just a curiosity.


As opposed to someone bribing his way through a significant fraction of a Third World country's land licensing, solid mineral and export control bureaucracy, in the hope that noone from the United States, any other major economy or even a journalist will twig to such a massive bribery operation.

I mean, if you think that refusing to sell the process is going to draw attention?
What exactly do you think happens when Anglo-American or Ocetz or the like tries to buy the mine in order to expand it and you refuse? What happens if your local accomplices get greedy?

Or some journalist/activist comes sniffing around and they murder them?
Its a lot harder to keep any sort of control over things spiralling out of control when your conspiracy involves the cooperation of several hundred people across two different nations.
 
Its a lot harder to keep any sort of control over things spiralling out of control when your conspiracy involves the cooperation of several hundred people across two different nations.

What several hundreds people amongst several nations? The ones the update says won't be there? They only exists in your head, the update says:
Since you actually have the diamonds you would not need to actually own a proper mine. A hole in the ground would do as long as it had the right paperwork and that is... not hard to obtain if you grease some palms. As long as the overall volume remains relatively small no one in the business would care and the US Gouvernement would be more than happy with the import tax and sales tax on the stones.

There is no *hundreds of people across several countries there*, just some palms to grease.
 
What several hundreds people amongst several nations? The ones the update says won't be there? They only exists in your head, the update says:


There is no *hundreds of people across several countries there*, just some palms to grease.
And how many palms do you think that is?

To pull something like this off? You're dealing with multiple officials of at least four different national-level ministries: Land/Property, Solid Minerals/Mining, Customs/Export and Finance/Taxes. Not including the locals at the site. I wasn't joking when I said this would involve hundreds of people being seen and paid off, and staying paid off.

Theres a reason a lot of foreign companies hire local fixers for bribery.

I'll come back later and give a more detailed explanation.
 
I don't know how extensive a paper trails we are actually going for. It seems to me that making documentation for every step of import and export might draw more attention than it deflects. Thomas seems to more be going for he sells the Diamonds and if anyone asks questions he points at his official documents about owning a diamond mine and no one bothers to look deeper because in the end he is paying import and export taxes and the money isn't large scale enough to bother with.
 
I'm not denying that our business would be fishy as hell.
But you can't convict people for nothing and there is really nothing illegal in it.
If you cannot prove where they came from, police can totally confiscate your diamonds and any money that you have on suspicion of being involved in a crime. See Civil Forfeiture.

If we want to fabricate and distribute diamonds, we need to establish an official workshop and enough machinery inside it to sustain the fiction that we created a new process even if they couldn't actually do the job.
 
It occurs to me that if we get NSS (9 XP 3 dot favored hell) we could avoid this whole problem. We could blatantly just sell diamonds without paying taxes and everyone would just avoid talking about it.
 
On the other hand with the African mine plan we need to buy a hole in the ground, pay some laborers to mine some hundreds of pounds of rock and soil a month out of it , and GO THERE to deliver the diamonds so we can import them back and sell them through official channels with the proper paper trails.

Else we are better off staying strictly small time and selling them through Marcone at a loss.
 
On the other hand with the African mine plan we need to buy a hole in the ground, pay some laborers to mine some hundreds of pounds of rock and soil a month out of it , and GO THERE to deliver the diamonds so we can import them back and sell them through official channels with the proper paper trails.

Else we are better off staying strictly small time and selling them through Marcone at a loss.
That is what you call a revealing cover up. Much better to just have a small business with a boring name and official documents showing that we own a diamond mine. There are many more interesting things to investigate.
 
That is what you call a revealing cover up. Much better to just have a small business with a boring name and official documents showing that we own a diamond mine. There are many more interesting things to investigate.
Where are the official documents that prove that our diamonds passed through customs?
We do not have bureaucracy charms to grease those wheels.
 
If you cannot prove where they came from, police can totally confiscate your diamonds and any money that you have on suspicion of being involved in a crime. See Civil Forfeiture.

If we want to fabricate and distribute diamonds, we need to establish an official workshop and enough machinery inside it to sustain the fiction that we created a new process even if they couldn't actually do the job.
Worst case we can literally go into our parent's toolshed with a bag of coals and come out with diamonds, with only a bit of ominous green glowing in between.

But okay, if we do make a fake workshop, that's still cheaper and easier and more legal than a fake mine.
 
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