Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] No, leave be for now
[X] Yes
-[X] Cyberdevils for a more secure and magically hardened line of communication
I think we should leave money for later. It's the kind of thing that can causes issues and we're still new to the group.
Its also not needed yet because we're likely to be involved in anything that gets big enough to warrant tapping an emergency fund like that, and we can just give whoever needs it the resources they require then.
After the first time that happens we'll have the perfect opportunity to make the general fund without bruising egos or causing similar problems.
-[X] Cyberdevils for a more secure and magically hardened line of communication
I think we should leave money for later. It's the kind of thing that can causes issues and we're still new to the group.
Its also not needed yet because we're likely to be involved in anything that gets big enough to warrant tapping an emergency fund like that, and we can just give whoever needs it the resources they require then.
After the first time that happens we'll have the perfect opportunity to make the general fund without bruising egos or causing similar problems.
[X] Yes
-[X] Leadership excellency
-[X] Cyberdevils for a more secure and magically hardened line of communication
[X] Ask Pauline for the list of the haunted properties she knows of, starting with the most problematic. This sounds right up Lydia's alley, and you could probably get some nice deals on those, once they are exorcised.
[X] Ask Anna for a private tour of the museum's collection, especially the most magically interesting objects. Those sound like something to use the Crown on.
-[X] Leadership excellency
-[X] Cyberdevils for a more secure and magically hardened line of communication
[X] Ask Pauline for the list of the haunted properties she knows of, starting with the most problematic. This sounds right up Lydia's alley, and you could probably get some nice deals on those, once they are exorcised.
[X] Ask Anna for a private tour of the museum's collection, especially the most magically interesting objects. Those sound like something to use the Crown on.
[X] Yog
Yes, strangers.
The average Illnois public high school has around 490 students, which is around 20-30 students less than the US national average.
Thats an average of a hundred and sixty some students per grade. Not counting teachers. An apartment building can have a close to a hundred apartments. A neighborhood can have even more residences.
So, again, like I said, strangers.
1)That's inaccurate.
The whole point of the scheme was that the White Council was distracted with the other war and thus a window of vulnerability existed if they threw in with the Reds, and they could do it covertly. Furthermore, the perpetrator(s) when seen, deliberately dressed like Warden(s) to foster distrust between the White Council and the human magical community.
Which is why despite the murders starting in four other cities on the west coast, which is Ramirez's stomping grounds, neither he nor any White Council affiliated wizard ever heard about it, and why the Ordo went to the trouble of hiring an investigator(Elaine) with no affiliation with the White Council.
Dresden himself?
Only got his heads up from Murphy and Chicago law enforcement, not the magical community, and when he went asking questions in the community where he prevented the Darkhallow, he was treated as a suspect.
MacAnally literally asked him if he was the killer. Mac!
Dude who called him in on an (unpaid) missing women report that sent him tangling with a grendelkin. Who was aware of his palling around with Knights. Asked him if he was murdering magical women.
2)Thats inaccurate. Vampires eat your life energy, directly or not. There's no indication that talents taste better; we literally see Thomas eat a sorceress in the Backup short story, and we know Dresden got fed on in Grave Peril. The only entity we know that gets power from killing the magically gifted are skinwalkers, and for them its wizards. Minor talents dont seem to count.
The Fomor had an interest in kidnapping minor talents, but the Fomor doesnt have the clout to operate openly on land.
Not until after Changes.
For Reds at least, magical skill carries over, so a sorcerer would be able to translate his human knowledge and ability at magic into whatever the Rampire equivalent is.
But there is no textev I recall in the books or RPG for minor practitioners in general being of interest.
Else the Reds who dominate Latin America, which is 8% of the world's population, would have scoured it for them and tried to weaponize them in the ongoing war against the White Council.
3)The Paranet is independent from Harry. Deliberately so, in fact.
He helped found them. He funded them with financial reparations extorted from the White Court, but he doesnt call the shots there.
They call him in, or some other trusted Warden, where necessary, but they arent considered one of his adjuncts for the purpose of enemy retaliation.
Thats not what we just did.
Yeah.
Shaping up to be one of those teachable moments about overreach, imo.
... How is the number of people in a group relates to us being able to have friends, including close friends, in that group? The argument, as I understand it, wasn't "they can hurt anyone in our school to make us hurt". It was "we have mundane friends, including close ones, from school. Those could be hurt to attack us". Unless you posit that Molly doesn't have mundane friends, or should abandon them.
For those at home keeping track, a listing of current organizations and associated flash points
Jade Dogs: Winter Court/unaffiliated/???
Thomas Raith/Justine(?): White Court/Nemesis(?)
Ordo Lebes/Helen Beckitt: White Council/Marcone
Thats the flashpoints each organization brings with them.
Not counting whatever enemies Molly brings with her, like the Denarians or the Thule Society.
VOTE
[X] No, leave be for now
I am not in favor of letting people know we can bug cellphones. Especially since Beckitt canonically works for Marcone.
None of these people have any ability to keep secrets from motivated opposition. Furthermore, they dont really need the ability to magicproof their electronics anyway. They arent wizards, they dont mess with magic strong enough to fry electronics.
And we sure as hell aint got any free money right now
In the future maybe. Not at the moment.
- Location
- Germany
I'm thinking of it as a safety in emergencies.
You can't call for help if you are abducted, killed or charmed by a Whampire.
But your devil-phone can.
[X] No, leave be for now
Until we get training charms and bureaucracy enhancers, we should keep things low key.
Until we get training charms and bureaucracy enhancers, we should keep things low key.
With the explosion in population post industrialization the White Council is quite overwhelmed by the number of emerging talents, this was the case even pre-Vampire War, but it is worse now. Under those circumstances triage has been enacted. Given how destructive warlocks can be the enforcement arm cannot be ignored, but outreach? Community building, like Harry did with Paranet? That has sadly fallen off all the more so as wizards fall behind the tech curve because of the techbane. you are not going to find many snail mail correspondence circles in 2006. While it is true that the perpetrator in White Night worked to exploit distrust between the Council and the community of magic users as Harry himself talks about at the beginning of the book that distrust is older than this one incident, and that is because while the cutting off of heads never fell off other aspects of engagement did. It is as though the government kept up the police force, but slashed education and healthcare into the ground
- Location
- Brazil
@Yog could you take cyberdevil out of your plan? Practitioners can have senses that detect them and they are dark beings made of alienation, if I were part of a magical group that suddenly started distributing things to them I would be rightly alarmed, to say the least.
I doubt we can't convince them to take it but it will take a hit to our reputation and I think they are one of the things we should only give away when they were really ours instead of what is basically an informal self-help group for people of middle-age.
At least the other two I agree, Lydia can resolve the ghosts without difficulty and gain some XP of her own, and I am very interested in the possible magic objects and who knows, if they have some interesting ones we can make a deal / buy for them.
[X] No, leave be for now
I doubt we can't convince them to take it but it will take a hit to our reputation and I think they are one of the things we should only give away when they were really ours instead of what is basically an informal self-help group for people of middle-age.
At least the other two I agree, Lydia can resolve the ghosts without difficulty and gain some XP of her own, and I am very interested in the possible magic objects and who knows, if they have some interesting ones we can make a deal / buy for them.
[X] No, leave be for now
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So... The big cost/benefit analysis is the question "how unique is our ability to summon cyberdevils?". We are probably the only one who can summon them en-masse and have magically ensured perfect loyalty. They are also almost certainly rare to nonexistent in the Western world. But, with how they were set up, I kinda expect mortals to also be able to summon them, if with much more effort, and having to bargain for their loyalty. Enma-O and the likes should be able to command them.
We can reasonably guess that the devils can't be detected easily. Can they be exorcised easily? Probably also not, at least not without the possessed objects' destruction. Do we risk them being known about? ... I am torn on this. We probably don't want to create an arms race here.
We can reasonably guess that the devils can't be detected easily. Can they be exorcised easily? Probably also not, at least not without the possessed objects' destruction. Do we risk them being known about? ... I am torn on this. We probably don't want to create an arms race here.
What you are describing is basic autocracy situation. Or, rather, transition to autocracy, where the most promoted trait in the government population is (political) passivity, and not interacting with the government agencies. You are likely to see a lot of resentment, especially if the government is not seen as providing security for the population in exchange, and a lot of passive resistance of "I haven't seen nothing, officer" kind. This is a situation ripe for a revolution, not through violent means, but through building parallel governing bodies. Stuff like courts, self-policing, social security, medical care, etc. And we can provide at least parts of those.
Others have voted for this plan, so changing it is problematic (this is a constant issue with how voting-by-name works, as it locks you into a certain vote).
If you like them, I would encourage you to vote for them - there's nothing stopping you from adding them to your vote. You might notice that I specifically put them not as subvotes, but as separate additional actions, so they would be counted separately from the main vote.
[X] Ask Pauline for the list of the haunted properties she knows of, starting with the most problematic. This sounds right up Lydia's alley, and you could probably get some nice deals on those, once they are exorcised.
[X] Ask Anna for a private tour of the museum's collection, especially the most magically interesting objects. Those sound like something to use the Crown on.
[X] Ask Anna for a private tour of the museum's collection, especially the most magically interesting objects. Those sound like something to use the Crown on.
As widely scattered as the magical population is within the mundane world and as great as the individual disparity is between minor talent and wizard you cannot really have a revolution is the thing, Anna and Abby cannot take to the streets outside the White Council's headquarters in Edinburgh, firstly because they could not find the place and secondly even if they could, a couple of wizards would be enough to brush off any number of minor talents.
There is also the fact that of the population of minor talents engagement in the supernatural world is variable. If you live in a real world autocracy you cannot just decide to disengage but as a minor talent you can choose that, up to and including cutting yourself off entirely as Charity did. This gives a safety valve that real world situations of this kind cannot parallel (open borders can kind of do that, just push the dissidents overseas, but by definition that will only get rid of the ones who have the resources to leave so you are left with plenty of discontent).
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Which should tell you something about the expectations of the community. People thought that the warden commander might be a serial killer going after minor talents, and went to an external investigator before involving him or reaching out to the council to ask what the hell was going on.
A point is regularly made that the white council kills warlocks, but rarely does anything more involved in the lives of minor talents on an institutional level. Individual members do, but the wardens don't have a 911 line and no one really expects them to protect them on an individual level. Which is why people were so ready to believe the deception.
The white council isn't evil and they do care on some level but their first, second, and third priorities are enforcing the laws of magic on wizard tier talents. Butcher himself describes them as being inspired by professional organizations like the bar association on a base level. Everything else comes after that.
The distrust was already there, and made for a convenient cover to sow confusion.
But this is getting a bit far afield from the point, which is that no major organization actually gives a shit about the ordo. Which is actively demonstrated by the way the council didn't even notice the serial killers running around in their uniforms and in how none of the victims went to them until it hit Chicago. Where Dresden, who is noted to be unusually involved with stuff like this, gets tipped off for reasons unrelated to his position on the council.
Fair enough on the white court, but minor boosts are still something for the reds.
The fomor might not be able to operate openly right now, but they are far from the only things out there. The supernatural world has a lot more players than we actually get introduced to in the books.
The entire reaction of minor talents implies a lot about the existence of a food chain around them.
The paranet was founded and funded by him, and had to get by on his reputation to get started. He was also regularly involved in its operations and receiving intelligence from them on supernatural events.
He didn't give himself a title, but he was effectively running the place for a significant period of time. It was also a materially useful source of information to him which would be trivial to figure out for his enemies and still no one bothered to attack it when they wanted to go after him.
This you have a point on though.
[X] No, leave be for now
Read the question I was answering.
Fictionfan asked how Molly would treat her classmates and neighbors as strangers. I pointed out that her classmates and neighbors literally number in the high three or four digits of people, most of whom she doesnt even know by face.
Her friends? Literally two named characters.
Who we havent seen onscreen for a while, come to think of it.
Again, you're doing too much.
1)Hauntings are not something that affects property values.
There are hospitals that are in operation that have had ghosts for most of a century. Agatha Hagglethorn was a thing in the books as far back as Grave Peril.
2)The museums of Chicago are open to anyone with a ticket. We do not need to be seen with Anna in public to go to the museum.
Furthermore, Anna doesnt work for a museum, she works for the Art Institute. This place
I fai, to see why you think this collection will have anything of magical significance
If it gets out that we can stick cyberdevils in cellphones, those will be the first thing to get tossed by an enemy.
Without our being able to literally teleport, we do not have the response time to be relevant anyway. I dont see what it achieves that an emergency contact on the phone doesnt already.
And I see too many downsides for when it leaks. We really dont need to put hostiles on alert to trash all electronics.
Furthermore, many people arent actually comfortable with putting whats essentially a wiretap thats under someone else's control on their phones.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Not that I disagree with the intent of Yog's plan - and offering to help improve people's defensive enchanted objects appeals (espically if we do so in a way that puts a fair amount of focus on side objects being hard to notice, if possible), but there are other worthwhile things we should to spend our time on.
Also it reads as very heavy-handed. Very very heavy handed and not treating the people here with respect their are due for their care and cleverness for having survived this long as prey. Framing these suggestions differently would go some way in allivating that.
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@DragonParadoxsorry if this jas been brought up, but is it possible for Cyberdeamons to communicate with eachother remotly without needing to work through existing networks?
Related Idea: Inserted into a cyberdeamon phone is one end of a (tiny) paired magic item set - two linked "switch/button in a box"s.
When the cyberdeamon in the phone moves the switch, that movement is reflected/replicated in the other part of the pair. Or a colour change or temperature change or voltage change.
Basically morse code speeds of data transmission with unlimited range. (Edit: I intend for such a thing to be limited to people who know about cyberdeamons)
Edit: uju32 raised good points.
Also, I want to keep knowledge of Cyberdeamons limited to close trusted friends (Lydia), family and those few we have decided to trust entierly (Harry, Mouse and maybe Bob)
Also it reads as very heavy-handed. Very very heavy handed and not treating the people here with respect their are due for their care and cleverness for having survived this long as prey. Framing these suggestions differently would go some way in allivating that.
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@DragonParadoxsorry if this jas been brought up, but is it possible for Cyberdeamons to communicate with eachother remotly without needing to work through existing networks?
Related Idea: Inserted into a cyberdeamon phone is one end of a (tiny) paired magic item set - two linked "switch/button in a box"s.
When the cyberdeamon in the phone moves the switch, that movement is reflected/replicated in the other part of the pair. Or a colour change or temperature change or voltage change.
Basically morse code speeds of data transmission with unlimited range. (Edit: I intend for such a thing to be limited to people who know about cyberdeamons)
Edit: uju32 raised good points.
Also, I want to keep knowledge of Cyberdeamons limited to close trusted friends (Lydia), family and those few we have decided to trust entierly (Harry, Mouse and maybe Bob)
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All they get is 'being an AI', other than that any HMP device is just like out of the box
Franky all that sounds like a win for us one of the reason the Reds are doing so well in the war is having a tech edge.
They almost certainly do, otherwise there would be no reason for someone to stay away from them when closing a deal. And even if they do not, they still sound as a perfect type of objects for Lydia to handle and get XP from.
Ok, this is a brainfart on my part, correcting.
...
It's a museum after all. At least according to wikipedia. "one of the oldest and largest art museums in the world" in fact. It's also a research institute.
I want a backdoor tour, ideally when it's not open to the public. So we can actually use the crown to the fullest.
As to whether there's anything of magical significance - I don't know if there is, but we could check, and if there isn't, there's still a lot of history, which we could unveil as further XP sources.