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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Tiz Goldeneye said:
There is a reason for the use of 3, while I can't say how much of this applies to Dresen cannon there are a ton of numerology implications of the number 3. First, and the most basic reason often used 3 is the least amount of sides that can be used to form a polygon, and it therefore represents stability. Second, 3 is a representation of unity because it takes the principles of identification found in the ideas of man being created first as 1 and woman being created second as 2, therefore a union between the two is the next step up, and again leads to stability. Third, 3 has a ton of mythological implications and therefore gets relied upon in magic a lot due the law of threefold resonance (which honestly deserves it's own spot) there were three witches in Macbeth, three Norns, three Fates who watched over the loom in Greek myth, three great gods in Greek myth, not to mention the correlation to the concept of the three domains of land sea and sky, there are three names of Ra, in Christianity God has three parts. There are so many things that make 3 pop up as significant, that I'm willing to trust in it, if nothing else the concept of a "stable union" when applied to our energy should help.

[X] 2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X] Use Occult Excellency
-[X] Use Crown of Eyes on the Cauldron for ways to make the power channeling through it safer
-[X] Lydia uses Intelligence Excellency
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Okay, that made up my mind for me.
Paradoxically, its sometimes more dangerous to do too much than too little.

Finally got a stunt I could live with.

VOTE
[X]2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X]Molly: 1 temporary Willpower: Autosuccess
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Focus: Cauldron contents, ladle. Aim: Optimizing safety.
-[X]Occult Excellency: 1 mote
-[X]Lydia: Intelligence Excellency + Mentor Background: 1 mote
-[X]STUNT: You hesitate for a moment at the smell of ash and brine, fascinated despite yourself at how much resemblance this portion of the ritual bore to the principles of alchemy as you've been learning them. Mistress, Usum whispers a reminder, and you stop woolgathering. Extending your senses towards the magic cauldron, you focus on the ladle as it mixes the contents and look for an answer. In response, you begin to mold Essence for entry into the brew even as Usum calls out adjustments. "Ladies," you remember to warn "We are both going to glow like something out of the Old Testament, or a Japanese animation show for several minutes. Its normal. Lydia, on my mark."


Expenditure
Molly: 4 motes, 1 temporary WP
Lydia: 2 motes

RATIONALE
All in.

Molly has 10/12 Essence left.
2 Essence into the pot, 1 Essence to Occult Excellency and 1 mote on Crown is 4 Essence, leaving us with 6/12 Essence left over.
Burn 1 Willpower for an autosux, leaving us with 8/9 Willpower.

Lydia has 5/6 Essence left.
1 Essence into the pot, 1 Essence on Intelligence Excellency, leaving her with 3/6 Essence.

Molly Occult dicepool: Intelligence 4 + Occult 5 + Excellency 9 + Stunt 2 = 20 dice
Lydia Intelligence dicepool: Intelligence 4 + Occult 1 + Excellency 5 + Stunt 2 = 12 dice.

I will assume every other practitioner here(besides Lydia) is going to spend Willpower for an automatic success.
Which eliminates the possibility of a botch(botch is no successes and at least one 1)

Oh, and warning the other ladies here. We are about to spend enough Essence to activate our anima banners.
Lydia is familiar with it, none of the rest are. And popping a banner that looks like an Old Testament angel out of the Book of Ezekiel might.....ruffle some feathers if it comes without warning.
 
[X]2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X]Molly: 1 temporary Willpower: Autosuccess
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Focus: Cauldron contents, ladle. Aim: Optimizing safety.
-[X]Occult Excellency: 1 mote
-[X]Lydia: Intelligence Excellency + Mentor Background: 1 mote
-[X]STUNT: You hesitate for a moment at the smell of ash and brine, fascinated despite yourself at how much resemblance this portion of the ritual bore to the principles of alchemy as you've been learning them. Mistress, Usum whispers a reminder, and you stop woolgathering. Extending your senses towards the magic cauldron, you focus on the ladle as it mixes the contents and look for an answer. In response, you begin to mold Essence for entry into the brew even as Usum calls out adjustments. "Ladies," you remember to warn "We are both going to glow like something out of the Old Testament, or a Japanese animation show for several minutes. Its normal. Lydia, on my mark."
 
fictionfan said:
It definitely was. It isn't as if the fire mage doesn't know how fires work. They just considered it a small price to pay for home security.
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She isnt a fire mage.

Helen Beckitt was a part time assistant to the black magic sorcerer Victor Sells. Victor Sells education had significant gaps in it as well, wnich was how Dresden punked him so easily once he was ID'd. He would have been the person who taught her and her husband, so I expect you'll find some of the same gaps in her understanding unless she's had the time and resources to fill them in.

And no, setting your house on fire is not a small price to pay.
Because the fire might kill you.
BronzeTongue said:
Being fair, the stunt could be taken as somewhat condescending. They clearly weren't planning to put enough juice in to directly start a fire and just accept the possibility of it being insufficient. The only thing they didn't consider was blinding bystanders.
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It wasnt their intent.
But they were talking heat here, and once magic is converted to actual physics stuff, it appears to mostly obey physical laws.
Like the square cube law.

The amount of radiant heat involved in that sort of pulse will set wood and curtains and paint on fire.
Hell, it'll set people on fire.

If she was talking radiation, thats even worse.
Neither alpha nor beta particles have much, if any penetration through clothes, so she'd have to be dealing with enough gamma to give a person immediate full body burns.

So you're talking enough gamma to kill everyone in the apartment block.
There's a reason that the fire option is DC8 while the curse option is DC7; way too easy to fuck that up.
Or succeed entirely too well.

IIRC, Harry's initial wards used electricity; it wasnt until Death Masks that he got proficient enough to include shit like fire and ice.
 
Goldfish said:
The curse is going to end up being a Fate-sundering Entropy Enema of Doom at this rate.
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Thats success, init? :V
If someone, or a group of someones, try to break into your apartment and are simultaneously cursed with temporary blindness, afflicted with full body muscle cramps and have an attack of violent diarrhea, all at the same time?

They are just as disabled as your blowing their heads off.
And you dont have to worry about magic murder charges either.
 
I was just reading the one dot Sidereal charms and the amount of overlap between being a Sidereal and being a Knight of the Cross is freaky. Mikelle could have about half those 1 dot charms and if wouldn't change anything, but to give him a mechanics base for the things he already does.

I think it is possible to create a mechanically optimized Sidereal well having them be completely unaware that they have any magic or are anything but a mundane human.
 
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[X] Just 1 Essence, you do not want to mingle too many sorts of eldritch power in this, old Cauldron or no
 
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[X] 2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X]Molly: 1 temporary Willpower: Autosuccess
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Focus: Cauldron contents, ladle. Aim: Optimizing safety.
-[X]Occult Excellency: 1 mote
-[X]Lydia: Intelligence Excellency + Mentor Background: 1 mote
-[X]STUNT: You hesitate for a moment at the smell of ash and brine, fascinated despite yourself at how much resemblance this portion of the ritual bore to the principles of alchemy as you've been learning them. Mistress, Usum whispers a reminder, and you stop woolgathering. Extending your senses towards the magic cauldron, you focus on the ladle as it mixes the contents and look for an answer. In response, you begin to mold Essence for entry into the brew even as Usum calls out adjustments. "Ladies," you remember to warn "We are both going to glow like something out of the Old Testament, or a Japanese animation show for several minutes. Its normal. Lydia, on my mark."
 
[X] 2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X]Molly: 1 temporary Willpower: Autosuccess
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Focus: Cauldron contents, ladle. Aim: Optimizing safety.
-[X]Occult Excellency: 1 mote
-[X] Leadership excellency to inspire and motivate the coven to do their best
-[X]Lydia: Intelligence Excellency + Mentor Background: 1 mote
-[X]STUNT: You hesitate for a moment at the smell of ash and brine, fascinated despite yourself at how much resemblance this portion of the ritual bore to the principles of alchemy as you've been learning them. Mistress, Usum whispers a reminder, and you stop woolgathering. Extending your senses towards the magic cauldron, you focus on the ladle as it mixes the contents and look for an answer. In response, you begin to mold Essence for entry into the brew even as Usum calls out adjustments. "Ladies," you remember to warn, to all the world a reassuring picture of perfect confidence "We are both going to glow like something out of the Old Testament, or a Japanese animation show for several minutes. Its normal. Lydia, on my mark. Let's all do our best here."

I added leadership excellency and modified the stunt a bit. The excellency is to make sure the coven members don't panic and do their best. A lot depends on them. Otherwise, yeah, this is a good vote.
 
If we want to convince Harry Dresden to accept a cyberdevil cellphone the best way to do it would be to give one to our Dad first. Harry has a very high regard for Mikelle's judgement.
 
uju32 said:
Helen Beckitt was a part time assistant to the black magic sorcerer Victor Sells. Victor Sells education had significant gaps in it as well, wnich was how Dresden punked him so easily once he was ID'd. He would have been the person who taught her and her husband, so I expect you'll find some of the same gaps in her understanding unless she's had the time and resources to fill them in.
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... Do we need to have a lecture about the Laws with them? I don't want them to have their heads chopped off.
uju32 said:
Thats success, init? :V
If someone, or a group of someones, try to break into your apartment and are simultaneously cursed with temporary blindness, afflicted with full body muscle cramps and have an attack of violent diarrhea, all at the same time?

They are just as disabled as your blowing their heads off.
And you dont have to worry about magic murder charges either.
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Actually, there's a big question here that will need to be checked - if the mortal sorcery is empowered beyond its basic intent by Exalted Power, does it still corrupt the mortal sorcerer due to breaking the Laws (that only happen due to said infusion of power)? Basically, if we accumulate, I don't know 30+ successes between us and Lydia on the ill fortune ritual and engrave "Pleasing to the Ebon Dragon" seal on the apartment's door or something equally as ridiculous, with ill fortune of the attackers manifesting in "a random tear in the reality drags you into hell, never to be seen again" tier of effects, would the mortal caster of the ritual still be on the hook for Law breaking? Both politically (i.e. if they will be persecuted for it), and metaphysically (i.e. if they will suffer soul corruption for it)?
 
[X]2 Essence from you and one fron Lydia, that is... proportional and if you time it right three is one of the numbers of great significance
-[X]Molly: 1 temporary Willpower: Autosuccess
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Focus: Cauldron contents, ladle. Aim: Optimizing safety.
-[X]Occult Excellency: 1 mote
-[X]Lydia: Intelligence Excellency + Mentor Background: 1 mote
-[X]STUNT: You hesitate for a moment at the smell of ash and brine, fascinated despite yourself at how much resemblance this portion of the ritual bore to the principles of alchemy as you've been learning them. Mistress, Usum whispers a reminder, and you stop woolgathering. Extending your senses towards the magic cauldron, you focus on the ladle as it mixes the contents and look for an answer. In response, you begin to mold Essence for entry into the brew even as Usum calls out adjustments. "Ladies," you remember to warn "We are both going to glow like something out of the Old Testament, or a Japanese animation show for several minutes. Its normal. Lydia, on my mark."
 
Yog said:
Actually, there's a big question here that will need to be checked - if the mortal sorcery is empowered beyond its basic intent by Exalted Power, does it still corrupt the mortal sorcerer due to breaking the Laws (that only happen due to said infusion of power)? Basically, if we accumulate, I don't know 30+ successes between us and Lydia on the ill fortune ritual and engrave "Pleasing to the Ebon Dragon" seal on the apartment's door or something equally as ridiculous, with ill fortune of the attackers manifesting in "a random tear in the reality drags you into hell, never to be seen again" tier of effects, would the mortal caster of the ritual still be on the hook for Law breaking? Both politically (i.e. if they will be persecuted for it), and metaphysically (i.e. if they will suffer soul corruption for it)?
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Intent matters.
Dresden had lethal wards on the door to his magic-room, IIRC, and he didn't worry about accidentally killing someone with it.
Same reason why it's mostly okay to curse someone who then turns out to be a reckless driver and dies on the street from a critical botch.
 
Yog said:
... Do we need to have a lecture about the Laws with them? I don't want them to have their heads chopped off.

Actually, there's a big question here that will need to be checked - if the mortal sorcery is empowered beyond its basic intent by Exalted Power, does it still corrupt the mortal sorcerer due to breaking the Laws (that only happen due to said infusion of power)? Basically, if we accumulate, I don't know 30+ successes between us and Lydia on the ill fortune ritual and engrave "Pleasing to the Ebon Dragon" seal on the apartment's door or something equally as ridiculous, with ill fortune of the attackers manifesting in "a random tear in the reality drags you into hell, never to be seen again" tier of effects, would the mortal caster of the ritual still be on the hook for Law breaking? Both politically (i.e. if they will be persecuted for it), and metaphysically (i.e. if they will suffer soul corruption for it)?
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My guess is no, since intent is a key part of how the corruption happens. That's the whole reason self defense is at least technically acknowledged as legitimate by the wardens.

If we build in extra stuff on top of what they make then we're the ones with the intent to do whatever it does.
 
Though keeping in mind theres a significant gap between not intending harm, not minding harm,and not expecting harm.

The ritual casters should be good, they don't expect much to happen. Harry likewise, his lightning wards are tied to a solid steel door and frame being forced, and the assumption is if they can dish it that hard they are neither human nor guest.

Might be harder to convince a Warden however, even if you are metaphysically in the clear, they can't know that
 
veekie said:
Though keeping in mind theres a significant gap between not intending harm, not minding harm,and not expecting harm.

The ritual casters should be good, they don't expect much to happen. Harry likewise, his lightning wards are tied to a solid steel door and frame being forced, and the assumption is if they can dish it that hard they are neither human nor guest.

Might be harder to convince a Warden however, even if you are metaphysically in the clear, they can't know that
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True, but I'm more concerned about the metaphysical issues* than the political ones at this level, for the moment at least.

A major subplot to the Dresden Files is the issue with the white council failing to modernize enough to handle industrial and post industrial population sizes, and how the vampire war hampered what little progress could be pushed past the internal political issues surrounding the topic.

The ward would basically need to explode spectacularly enough to catch national attention for the Wardens to give a shit at this point, and even then Dresden would be the one in charge of investigating it. If anyone is going to take a second look at a self defense claim instead of killing first and leaving the questions to someone who gives a shit it's him.

* As an aside, I'm annoyed by the direction the corruption of black magic took in the materials surrounding the books.

When first introduced, Harry's description of how it worked was rooted in the idea that you had to have supernaturally absolutely belief in your own right to do something in order to cast magic. Therefore stuff like killing people required you to believe you had the right to decide who lives and dies. "You make your choices and your choices make you" writ large.

It wasn't like warhammer warp corruption or something, which is what it seems to bend towards now.
 
Welp I'm home, I am also alas tired as hell, not sure I can get a decent update today and I do not want to risk writing a subpar one when this could get... er energetic with the current winning vote.
 
DragonParadox said:
Welp I'm home, I am also alas tired as hell, not sure I can get a decent update today and I do not want to risk writing a subpar one when this could get... er energetic with the current winning vote.
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Two parts cursed hellfire one part necromantic death god power, seasoned to taste with Salem brand witchcraft does sound like a hell of a drug. :V
 
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