Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
We dont care about Essence regen.
We care about not getting tired in the middle of a fight, or during a chase scene, or while trying to run or fly while carrying people.

I consider that a edge case since we have never had a fight that lasted more than 5 minutes and it seems unlikely that it will happen very often at all. And if it did running out of essanse would be a much bigger problem so we are going to try and avoid that.

I am not claiming those other 1 dots charms aren't useful in certain conditions. I am just saying that the situations that they are used are not common or the sort of situation that we can or want to force to happen. A charm that isn't useful every arc isn't that useful in general.

DragonParadox · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
Merry Christmas DP. And thanks for the update.

COMMENTARY

Going to point out that the woman is just barely stopping herself from chiding us about revealing personal secrets carelessly.
And essentially wondering why our father isnt stopping us. She is the third person to do this, after Harry and Bob.
It would be nice if we actually paid attention.

-Note when I said people keep their secrets?
Exhibit A: Ms Moskowitz here brought an invisible companion to this conversation, and she didnt mention it to anyone.
Its four feet tall, and material enough to block air currents, so its not just an immaterial spirit.

Its either an invisible construct of some sort. Or its some denizen of the NeverNever. Possibly shen. Possibly Fae.
DPoE didnt proc, so it isnt a CoD.
Makes a good argument for Hellscry Chakra and All Things Betray.

-The woman couldnt resist taking a jab at the White Council, even now.

She really does feel bitter towards them.
I'm guessing she's lost people before, and the White Council's protection isnt as comprehensive as she would like.
Nevermind that there are good reasons there.

Wasnt that long ago that the Red Court had a local presence, but with Dresden wiping out Bianca's court, and winning that duel with Ortega, Chicago has been a lot safer on the street level than it was five years ago.

-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
People who have read the books starting from Storm Front will remember the name. And the implications.
Looks like we're getting involved in the events of White Night half a year or so early.

-Molly cant afford to stage a takeover. Not atm.

She has the stats to talk her way into control. But she'd be spreading herself a little thin to do so.
And frankly, her direct involvement is going to spook and scare off a bunch of the magical sensitives who would need the help and counselling.

What she can provide is logistics support and financing. Maybe advice.
Thats another 3-4 million trust we need to budget for to expand the Ordo Lebes into the Paranet.

Its actually worse than it first appears. The people we just told all this to are, in order:

-Ms Pauline Moskowitz, a hedge mage who seems well meaning, but whose loyalties, and critically, debts, we dont know.

-An invisible companion (name unknown, type unknown, sapience unknown) who is loyal to Ms Moskowitz, but who owes us no loyalty, and will presumably prioritize its own safety and that of Ms Moskowitz over our information security if anyone should attempt to coerce it.

-From Ms Moskowitz to a bunch of hedge mages associated with Ms Moskowitz, who we dont know personally, who owe us no loyalties, whose debts are unknown, and who are in general explicitly weak enough that a supernatural predator can coerce them for information. Or simply take it from them.

To put their weakness in some context: The Ordo Lebes and others being targeted and murdered by a single White Court vampire was most of the inciting plot of White Night, the next mainline Dresden Files book. They didnt notice the Skavis was a Whampire when it literally joined their coven. To be fair, Elaine didnt either.

And last of all:

-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
Aka Miss Demeter. Manager of Executive Priority Health. Gentleman John Marcone's mistress.

Yes, Helen Beckitt is a genuine and loyal member of the Ordo Lebes in canon. She's also an excon who went to jail because she was one of the patsies/financial backers of Victor Sells, the starter villain of the first Dresden book Storm Front. The other backer was her then-husband, who also went to jail, and died there.

When she got out of jail, Marcone hired her on as a ~~brothel madam~~ health gym manager.
She is his mistress. She's also the mother of that child that got shot during a gangwar who Marcone is guilty about.
She doesnt know the child is alive and in a vegetative state in a nursing home.

You never actually know who you are talking to.

So in conclusion:

We literally just watched Kattrin Sigfriddsdottir try to EAT a death god for power, something with no real modern precedent.
Then we just went out and blithely announced that our power is designed for humans and is inheritable.
To a person/people who told us their group is too weak to fight off attack.

When this gets out, half the powerhungry practitioners out there are going to go look for more Exalted shards, and get themselves and other people in trouble. The other half are going to try to figure out how to pry this loose from us.
And it wont just be evil people doing this: see The Warrior short story.

There is a bloody good reason why the default regarding information sharing is: Shut The Fuck Up.
If you are not absolutely sure they have need to know, and can keep their own mouths shut? Shut the fuck up.
You will often risk more harm than good.

And you give other people concerns about your ability or willingness to keep their secrets when you cant keep yours.

Wizards dont give power point presentations about their powers or early training.
Mab doesnt talk about her affair with the first Merlin, or how she ended up Winter Queen. Harry does not advertise that he's been guarding Fidelacchius for the last two years.

Ebenezar McCoy hasnt actually told Dresden that he's his grandfather.
Harry hasnt told Ebenezar, his last teacher and the man who saved his life, that he has a halfbrother who's a Whampire.
Thomas hasnt told Harry that he's a Venator.

For the record Molly never said her power is inheritable, all she said was that it was meant for a human, it could well be that it is a once and done deal, that is not inherently unheard of just rare. Also there is no implication that there are more of these things out there in what Molly said.

As for why Michael let Molly talk, because it is fundamentally not his call, he is not bound to respect the free will of others by some metaphysical aspect of reality, but he has come away from his job with a healthy respect for the capacity of others to make their own choices. Molly has chosen to give up one of her secrets for an in with some good hearted, as far as he can tell, local practitioners. There is nothing morally wrong with that and to make Molly morally responsible for what other people or monsters may torture out of said local practitioners would be putting an unfair degree of blame on her in his estimation.

Artemis1992 · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
Wizards dont give power point presentations about their powers or early training.
Mab doesnt talk about her affair with the first Merlin, or how she ended up Winter Queen. Harry does not advertise that he's been guarding Fidelacchius for the last two years.

Ebenezar McCoy hasnt actually told Dresden that he's his grandfather.
Harry hasnt told Ebenezar, his last teacher and the man who saved his life, that he has a halfbrother who's a Whampire.
Thomas hasnt told Harry that he's a Venator.

And they might have avoided some trouble and confusion if they had shared with trusted people.
As for the consequences you outlined, I kinda doubt that minor practicioners going after our Exaltation is a big problem.
Nothing short of Merlin himself with some decades of reasearch-time could seperate us from it while alive.

So at most we have a few more people with an opportunistic interest in killing us, but the kind of people willing to fight a combat-specced Exalted for a small chance at more power rarely get old enough to become good Sorcerers.

I'm more worried about all the Vampires, Fey, Warlocks, minions of the Yama-Kings and other serious hostile forces.

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
Cellphones dont work underground.
They dont work out in the wilderness, or in the NeverNever, or anywhere that the physical infrastructure of a transmitter network lacks coverage or does not exist. They cannot reach across the dimensional barrier to every citizen sworn to us in our Hell.

And we do not have the Essence capacity to mass HMP cellphones anyway.

All of those problems have fixes. We can take over a satellite. Or quick set up things underground. As for our hell I don't know how that might work because we don't have it yet. Also it seems very optimistic to think that on average we are going to gain more than 1 minions a day that could use a cyberdevil cellphone a day and we can certainly afford that.

Prospalz · Dec 25, 2022

Artemis1992 said:
So at most we have a few more people with an opportunistic interest in killing us, but the kind of people willing to fight a combat-specced Exalted for a small chance at more power rarely get old enough to become good Sorcerers.

Not that 14+ points of soak and a blade of aggravated damage isn't terrifying for DF street level stuff, but we are sure asf not a combat build yet. Speaking of native charms only, we don't have Opened Eye of the Hurricane, we don't have Spattered Grease* and no multi-attack charm, we don't have surprise negators or self-revival charms and we are E2. BSM isn't set up to be active at will, too. Nvm periphery stuff.

We are still at the point where stuff like forty malks is a legit threat, instead of something we effortlessly steamroll.

*which isn't shitty splash acid charm, but reflexive infinite counter-attacks charm

DragonParadox · Dec 25, 2022

Prospalz said:
Not that 14+ points of soak and a blade of aggravated damage isn't terrifying for DF street level stuff, but we are sure asf not a combat build yet. Speaking of native charms only, we don't have Opened Eye of the Hurricane, we don't have Spattered Grease* and no multi-attack charm, we don't have surprise negators or self-revival charms and we are E2. BSM isn't set up to be active at will, too. Nvm periphery stuff.

We are still at the point where stuff like forty malks is a legit threat, instead of something we effortlessly steamroll.

*which isn't shitty splash acid charm, but reflexive infinite counter-attacks charm

You do have a surprise negator as long as your anima is up, it is one of the things your crown does.

Earth-Destroyer · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
Cellphones dont work underground.
They dont work out in the wilderness, or in the NeverNever, or anywhere that the physical infrastructure of a transmitter network lacks coverage or does not exist. They cannot reach across the dimensional barrier to every citizen sworn to us in our Hell.

And we do not have the Essence capacity to mass HMP cellphones anyway.

True but if we HMP the cell towers we gain a city wide spy network.

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

Prospalz said:
We are still at the point where stuff like forty malks is a legit threat, instead of something we effortlessly steamroll.

They might be a legit threat in the sense that it is statically possible that we lose if all the Malk attack us with no regard for their individual self preservation, but there is no version of that fight where the Malk win. Losing at least half your number is a lose no matter how you slice it.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

Earth-Destroyer said:
Their not exalted. Exalted get much much reduced xp cost and training time compared to mortals. For mortals I think it is 10xp per dot. Maxing a single path is 150 xp, for a mortal that is decades of work generally. For Molly it is just 34xp.
One of the reason VEE is so powerful is it just skips all that and goes straight to results.

This is not accurate.
Path of Power Sorcerers are 10XP for the first dot. Subsequent dots are 5x (current rating) XP
Maxing a 5 dot Path is 60XP. Same amount will buy you 3x dots in 2 different Paths, and 2 dots in a third Path.

Sorcerer Revised Sorcerers are 7XP for the first dot, and 7x(current rating)XP for subsequent dots.
Maxing a 5 dot Path is 77XP.
Same amount will buy you 3 dots in 2 Paths, 2 dots in a 3rd Path, and 1 dot in a 4th Path.

As a general rule, its more cost efficient to not focus on one Path alone.
XP gain is a matter of QM pacing.
Not a feature of the class.

fictionfan said:
I consider that a edge case since we have never had a fight that lasted more than 5 minutes and it seems unlikely that it will happen very often at all. And if it did running out of essanse would be a much bigger problem so we are going to try and avoid that.
I am not claiming those other 1 dots charms aren't useful in certain conditions. I am just saying that the situations that they are used are not common or the sort of situation that we can or want to force to happen. A charm that isn't useful every arc isn't that useful in general.

No it is not

We literally have only been in the business for a month and half.
In that time, the Kattrin case had us driving four hour round trips to Old Man Mathew's place and spelunking underground. The Pathfinder case involved a six hour roadtrip to Cleveland.

You vastly underestimate the effort involved here.

Artemis1992 said:
And they might have avoided some trouble and confusion if they had shared with trusted people.
As for the consequences you outlined, I kinda doubt that minor practicioners going after our Exaltation is a big problem.
Nothing short of Merlin himself with some decades of reasearch-time could seperate us from it while alive.

So at most we have a few more people with an opportunistic interest in killing us, but the kind of people willing to fight a combat-specced Exalted for a small chance at more power rarely get old enough to become good Sorcerers.
I'm more worried about all the Vampires, Fey, Warlocks, minions of the Yama-Kings and other serious hostile forces.

They did. The people they didnt tell to, by definition, had no need to know.
A lot of the advocates of more liberal information dispersal would have just gotten a whole lot more people killed to no advantage.

I always wonder how people walk in and immediately decide that an entire society's way of doing things with the experience of a couple thousand years is dumb and stupid because we're a PC.
Especially in settings defined by information management.

Their success is not a problem. The consequences of their failure is.
Molly feels like an archdevil. Go send a stream of moderately talented or desperate mages into the arms of the various Hells, who are willing to trade Infernal Investiture for just a couple considerations.

And the fact that we know it cant be pried loose from us short of our death does not stop other people from trying.
Or just trying to kill us.
Even in failure, collateral damage is very much a thing in this universe, and our friends dont get fiat protection.

Our enemies are under no obligation to come to us face to face.
See The Warrior short story where some dumbfuck priest kidnapped Alicia at softball practice, put a bomb on her and used her as a hostage in order to get his hands on Amoracchius and Fidelacchius.

fictionfan said:
All of those problems have fixes. We can take over a satellite. Or quick set up things underground. As for our hell I don't know how that might work because we don't have it yet. Also it seems very optimistic to think that on average we are going to gain more than 1 minions that could use a cyberdevil cellphone a day and we can certainly afford that.

No they dont.
Cellphones do not work off communication satellites. Putting a cyberdevil there wont change that; they arent compatible, and dont have the broadcast power.

And no, you cant quick set up things underground either. Else we would already have done so

Do you realize how many people lose cellphones every day?
Or have them stolen? Especially in cities?
As of 2012, 30 million cellphones went missing in the US every year according to CNBC.

Artemis1992 · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
I always wonder how people walk in and immediately decide that an entire society's way of doing things with the experience of a couple thousand years is dumb and stupid because we're a PC.
Especially in settings defined by information management.

To be fair, it worked quite well in ASwaH by DragonParadox.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

Earth-Destroyer said:
True but if we HMP the cell towers we gain a city wide spy network.

Thats not even vaguely feasible.
There's several hundred celltowers and antennae in Chicago alone.
That sort of thing will involve physically infiltrating the local exchanges and putting a cyberdevil there.

And probably raising our Cyberdevils Background to 3-4.

Artemis1992 said:
To be fair, it worked quite well in ASwaH by DragonParadox.

Fair. But that's a different setting.

This is the Dresden Files, where the Oblivion War is a thing, against Old Ones where just knowing about them gives them power. Where Bram Stoker writing Dracula broke the Black Court as a major supernatural power. Where Lovecraft writing his books gave the Old Ones a magical foothold in our reality and got him killed.

Where the White Council spent decades going after every copy of Kemmler's bibliography they could find.

Changes happened because one vampire put together the fact that Dresden was LeFay's kid and McCoy's grandkid and that Susan's baby daddy was Dresden into an attempt at a war-altering magical assassination.
There is plenty of precedent for knowing to shut the fuck up if you've read the books.

Pardon my french.

DragonParadox · Dec 25, 2022

Changing the world because you do not like the shape of it is entirely within the purview of this quest, you are one of the Infernal Exalted, crowned with darkness, ice and flame. The wheel turns, the sixth age comes...

Just do not expect taking a hammer to the very pillars of the setting to be clean or bloodless.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

DragonParadox said:
For the record Molly never said her power is inheritable, all she said was that it was meant for a human, it could well be that it is a once and done deal, that is not inherently unheard of just rare. Also there is no implication that there are more of these things out there in what Molly said.

As for why Michael let Molly talk, because it is fundamentally not his call, he is not bound to respect the free will of others by some metaphysical aspect of reality, but he has come away from his job with a healthy respect for the capacity of others to make their own choices. Molly has chosen to give up one of her secrets for an in with some good hearted, as far as he can tell, local practitioners. There is nothing morally wrong with that and to make Molly morally responsible for what other people or monsters may torture out of said local practitioners would be putting an unfair degree of blame on her in his estimation.

🤷
Free will. Very much going to be a "Regulations are written in blood" moment for Molly, or so it looks like to me.
If the dice are kind, the costs wont be too high.
But I wouldnt get my hopes up.

DragonParadox said:
Changing the world because you do not like the shape of it is entirely within the purview of this quest, you are one of the Infernal Exalted, crowned with darkness, ice and flame. The wheel turns, the sixth age comes...
Just do not expect taking a hammer to the very pillars of the setting to be clean or bloodless.

Noted.

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

[x]You're powerful and willing to take them on as minions if they volunteer, but honestly you can't really see them being all that helpful to you so you would rather just be friendly without obligations for now.

Sort of like Bai Majin in forge of destiny. At least how she was introduced. Powerful, scary without even trying, but does not really hold any ill will by default. The sort of person that you might take steps to get as your roommate if you were scared of the general neighborhood.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

Im not really inspired for a writein.
So Im approval voting @BronzeTongue and @Goldfish

VOTE
[X] As Molly Carpenter, a newly active member of the greater supernatural community, previously aware of its existence but largely sheltered from it due to our age and parental concerns.
-[X] Use Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies, with an aim toward easing the concerns and misgivings of those who might react negatively to our apparent nature.

[X] Plan A Growing Girl
-[X] As someone who has found and claimed great power that is still growing into her grasp of it.

BronzeTongue · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
Merry Christmas DP. And thanks for the update.

COMMENTARY

Going to point out that the woman is just barely stopping herself from chiding us about revealing personal secrets carelessly.
And essentially wondering why our father isnt stopping us. She is the third person to do this, after Harry and Bob.
It would be nice if we actually paid attention.

-Note when I said people keep their secrets?
Exhibit A: Ms Moskowitz here brought an invisible companion to this conversation, and she didnt mention it to anyone.
Its four feet tall, and material enough to block air currents, so its not just an immaterial spirit.

Its either an invisible construct of some sort. Or its some denizen of the NeverNever. Possibly shen. Possibly Fae.
DPoE didnt proc, so it isnt a CoD.
Makes a good argument for Hellscry Chakra and All Things Betray.

-The woman couldnt resist taking a jab at the White Council, even now.

She really does feel bitter towards them.
I'm guessing she's lost people before, and the White Council's protection isnt as comprehensive as she would like.
Nevermind that there are good reasons there.

Wasnt that long ago that the Red Court had a local presence, but with Dresden wiping out Bianca's court, and winning that duel with Ortega, Chicago has been a lot safer on the street level than it was five years ago.

-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
People who have read the books starting from Storm Front will remember the name. And the implications.
Looks like we're getting involved in the events of White Night half a year or so early.

-Molly cant afford to stage a takeover. Not atm.

She has the stats to talk her way into control. But she'd be spreading herself a little thin to do so.
And frankly, her direct involvement is going to spook and scare off a bunch of the magical sensitives who would need the help and counselling.

What she can provide is logistics support and financing. Maybe advice.
Thats another 3-4 million trust we need to budget for to expand the Ordo Lebes into the Paranet.

Its actually worse than it first appears. The people we just told all this to are, in order:

-Ms Pauline Moskowitz, a hedge mage who seems well meaning, but whose loyalties, and critically, debts, we dont know.

-An invisible companion (name unknown, type unknown, sapience unknown) who is loyal to Ms Moskowitz, but who owes us no loyalty, and will presumably prioritize its own safety and that of Ms Moskowitz over our information security if anyone should attempt to coerce it.

-From Ms Moskowitz to a bunch of hedge mages associated with Ms Moskowitz, who we dont know personally, who owe us no loyalties, whose debts are unknown, and who are in general explicitly weak enough that a supernatural predator can coerce them for information. Or simply take it from them.

To put their weakness in some context: The Ordo Lebes and others being targeted and murdered by a single White Court vampire was most of the inciting plot of White Night, the next mainline Dresden Files book. They didnt notice the Skavis was a Whampire when it literally joined their coven. To be fair, Elaine didnt either.

And last of all:

-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
Aka Miss Demeter. Manager of Executive Priority Health. Gentleman John Marcone's mistress.

Yes, Helen Beckitt is a genuine and loyal member of the Ordo Lebes in canon. She's also an excon who went to jail because she was one of the patsies/financial backers of Victor Sells, the starter villain of the first Dresden book Storm Front. The other backer was her then-husband, who also went to jail, and died there.

When she got out of jail, Marcone hired her on as a ~~brothel madam~~ health gym manager.
She is his mistress. She's also the mother of that child that got shot during a gangwar who Marcone is guilty about.
She doesnt know the child is alive and in a vegetative state in a nursing home.

You never actually know who you are talking to.

So in conclusion:

We literally just watched Kattrin Sigfriddsdottir try to EAT a death god for power, something with no real modern precedent.
Then we just went out and blithely announced that our power is designed for humans and is inheritable.
To a person/people who told us their group is too weak to fight off attack.

When this gets out, half the powerhungry practitioners out there are going to go look for more Exalted shards, and get themselves and other people in trouble. The other half are going to try to figure out how to pry this loose from us.
And it wont just be evil people doing this: see The Warrior short story.

There is a bloody good reason why the default regarding information sharing is: Shut The Fuck Up.
If you are not absolutely sure they have need to know, and can keep their own mouths shut? Shut the fuck up.
You will often risk more harm than good.

And you give other people concerns about your ability or willingness to keep their secrets when you cant keep yours.

Wizards dont give power point presentations about their powers or early training.
Mab doesnt talk about her affair with the first Merlin, or how she ended up Winter Queen. Harry does not advertise that he's been guarding Fidelacchius for the last two years.

Ebenezar McCoy hasnt actually told Dresden that he's his grandfather.
Harry hasnt told Ebenezar, his last teacher and the man who saved his life, that he has a halfbrother who's a Whampire.
Thomas hasnt told Harry that he's a Venator.

Yeah, I hadn't considered that aspect of things but it's a good point. Which is really the perfect object lesson in why rule one is "don't say shit".

I don't think we're going to learn this lesson properly until someone demonstrates on screen that this isn't Harry Potter by burning us with our oversharing.

DragonParadox said:
For the record Molly never said her power is inheritable, all she said was that it was meant for a human, it could well be that it is a once and done deal, that is not inherently unheard of just rare. Also there is no implication that there are more of these things out there in what Molly said.

As for why Michael let Molly talk, because it is fundamentally not his call, he is not bound to respect the free will of others by some metaphysical aspect of reality, but he has come away from his job with a healthy respect for the capacity of others to make their own choices. Molly has chosen to give up one of her secrets for an in with some good hearted, as far as he can tell, local practitioners. There is nothing morally wrong with that and to make Molly morally responsible for what other people or monsters may torture out of said local practitioners would be putting an unfair degree of blame on her in his estimation.

What does blame have to do with it though?

You don't have to be at fundamental moral fault for the consequences to be your problem. Information that's available can be used to inform decisions which previously would have to be based on the next best thing to random guesses.

I wouldn't call it catastrophic, but our current policy does seem to be setting us up for an object lesson in why some social norms extend across supernatural groups ranging from one dot sorcerers all the way to the white god.

Edit:
Approval voting goldfish's plan as well.

[X] As Molly Carpenter, a newly active member of the greater supernatural community, previously aware of its existence but largely sheltered from it due to our age and parental concerns.
-[X] Use Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies, with an aim toward easing the concerns and misgivings of those who might react negatively to our apparent nature.

[X] Plan A Growing Girl
-[X] As someone who has found and claimed great power that is still growing into her grasp of it.

DragonParadox · Dec 25, 2022

BronzeTongue said:
Yeah, I hadn't considered that aspect of things but it's a good point. Which is really the perfect object lesson in why rule one is "don't say shit".

I don't think we're going to learn this lesson properly until someone demonstrates on screen that this isn't Harry Potter by burning us with our oversharing.

What does blame have to do with it though?

You don't have to be at fundamental moral fault for the consequences to be your problem. Information that's available can be used to inform decisions which previously would have to be based on the next best thing to random guesses.

I wouldn't call it catastrophic, but our current policy does seem to be setting us up for an object lesson in why some social norms extend across supernatural groups ranging from one dot sorcerers all the way to the white god.

I was answering specifically about why Michael did not speak up and it is because it is by his lights not his decision to make .

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

Mostly I think that we just want enough rep that we are known to exist and that the desperate will come to us before they risk summoning demons or Fey instead.

I personally want to spread the knowledge of Mercy in Servitude around but the thread in general doesn't seem to like that idea. Mostly because I feel like if people decide becoming our minion is a good deal then I agree. But the attitude of the thread seems to be that we need to be able to offer a lot more than that.

I'm fine with having loads of minions that just pay us a percentage of their income.

BronzeTongue · Dec 25, 2022

fictionfan said:
Mostly I think that we just want enough rep that we are known to exist and that the desperate will come to us before they risk summoning demons or Fey instead.

I personally want to spread the knowledge of Mercy in Servitude around but the thread in general doesn't seem to like that idea. Mostly because I feel like if people decide becoming our minion is a good deal then I agree. But the attitude of the thread seems to be that we need to be able to offer a lot more than that.

I see where you're going and getting a reputation that encourages people to join up is definitely something to work towards, but you're moving really fast.

These guys have had it beaten into their skull that no one bothers to pay attention to them unless they want to eat or somehow exploit them.

As insulting as the comparison is, there are parallels between this situation and gaining the trust of an abused animal. If we rush up and start talking about our hiring policies it's going to press half a dozen buttons labeled "Abort" in their brains.

It might actually make it harder to get at people without being nearly predatory about digging them up if we poison our rep early on.

Starting slower and getting a reputation as trustworthy and essentially human in mindset would allow us to interact more effectively with the community as a whole. Something that's both useful in its own right and potentially a more effective route to recruiting people.

Being plugged in means we can reach out before our potential recruits have hit rock bottom so hard they're willing to sell their minds and souls to get out again. A good record of that and people will send them to us without prompting instead of warning them away and forcing us to swim against the current to reach them in the first place.

Azais · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
🤷
Free will. Very much going to be a "Regulations are written in blood" moment for Molly, or so it looks like to me.
If the dice are kind, the costs wont be too high.
But I wouldnt get my hopes up.

Honestly I'm just hoping we get fucked up because of this to various updates and it's almost always the source of it the reasoning that "we have to give a full accounting of everything to anyone, even if they don't ask otherwise they're all going to come back against us".

I wish so much that people would want to be aless of a nice two shoes, even though we're an Infernal, because the way I see it, all the major supernatural powers will never take us seriously and will always find us some idiot kid with a lot of power that don't shut up, no one will ever trust us with a secret/something. Even the canon Molly was better than that.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

fictionfan said:
Mostly I think that we just want enough rep that we are known to exist and that the desperate will come to us before they risk summoning demons or Fey instead.

I personally want to spread the knowledge of Mercy in Servitude around but the thread in general doesn't seem to like that idea. Mostly because I feel like if people decide becoming our minion is a good deal then I agree. But the attitude of the thread seems to be that we need to be able to offer a lot more than that.

I'm fine with having loads of minions that just pay us a percentage of their income.

1)Dresden is an open wizard in Chicago, and yet when magical women were getting murdered in White Night, nobody came out and told him. He had to find out from Murphy asking for a consult.
The paranoia of the magical community is nothing we can do very much about.

Our goal is to establish a reputation and record without being automatically pigeonholed as evil.
Everything else is a bonus.
I certainly have no interest in becoming the alternative to demon summoning and fae bargains; just a Power with a human mindset.

2)Demon summoning? Really not all that common, and demons have a bad rep anyway. Fae are way more likely.
Which is in part why I was so worked up about people advertising we got our hellish power as a human.
Because that is likely to drive an upsurge in people looking for hellish bargains. Which will be our problem sooner or later.

3)Mercy in Servitude works for bakemono.
Vampires and ghouls qualify. So do other forms of mutant humans; I suspect some Pathfinders would have qualified.
But vanilla humans do not. And vanilla humans are 99% of who we will interact with.

4)Why would they want to pay us their income?
We are not a government, or the mafia, and people have things to do with their money.
Why would we even want it?

Azais said:
Honestly I'm just hoping we get fucked up because of this to various updates and it's almost always the source of it the reasoning that "we have to give a full accounting of everything to anyone, even if they don't ask otherwise they're all going to come back against us".

I wish so much that people would want to be nothing less than a nice two shoes, even though we're an Infernal, because the way I see it, all the major supernatural powers will never take us seriously and will always find us some idiot kid with a lot of power that don't shut up, no one will ever trust us with a secret/something. Even the canon Molly was better than that.

???
Am I misunderstanding you?

I LOVE being underestimated.
Being underestimated is how you survive long enough to come into the fullness of your power without getting ambushed by several Lords of Outer Night at a nightclub, or having to face half a dozen Denarians in Undertown at Essence 2.

And age has nothing to do with it. The Archive is around 10 years old at this point in the timeline.
She was 7 when she was introduced.
Everyone takes her seriously.

BronzeTongue · Dec 25, 2022

Azais said:
Honestly I'm just hoping we get fucked up because of this to various updates and it's almost always the source of it the reasoning that "we have to give a full accounting of everything to anyone, even if they don't ask otherwise they're all going to come back against us".

I wish so much that people would want to be nothing less than a nice two shoes, even though we're an Infernal, because the way I see it, all the major supernatural powers will never take us seriously and will always find us some idiot kid with a lot of power that don't shut up, no one will ever trust us with a secret/something. Even the canon Molly was better than that.

That seems excessively negative; I'm not happy about our current approach, but I don't think we've terminally screwed ourselves yet. We certainly haven't given a full accounting to everyone who asks.

I also wouldn't connect being a goody two shoes with our oversharing problem. Being an infernal grade asshole in general wouldn't inherently make us safer in this regard.

Having a sense of ethics isn't the same as having no ability to keep a secret; see Harry and Micheal as examples.

You do have a point about not being taken seriously if we are as casual about information security in the future as we have been so far though.

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
4)Why would they want to pay us their income?
We are not a government, or the mafia, and people have things to do with their money.
Why would we even want it?

Because if they are paying us a percentage of their income then any action that they take to earn money counts as action in our service. Which allows us to spread Mercy in Servitude far and wide with about no effort on our part and not that much trouble on their part. I feel like I have brought this up many times. But I might not have been clear.

uju32 · Dec 25, 2022

fictionfan said:
Because if they are paying us a percentage of their income then any action that they take to earn money counts as action in our service. Which allows us to spread Mercy in Servitude far and wide with about no effort on our part and not that much trouble on their part. I feel like I have brought this up many times. But I might not have been clear.

1)It looks like a protection racket. Which is a bad look, and bad for our reputation.
2)Perverse incentive. I dont want to incentivize desperate people to do anything they can to make money we dont need.
3)Like I said, MiS does not work on vanilla humans. Just the bakemono adjacent.
So moot point anyway.

fictionfan · Dec 25, 2022

uju32 said:
1)It looks like a protection racket. Which is a bad look, and bad for our reputation.
2)Perverse incentive. I dont want to incentivize desperate people to do anything they can to make money we dont need.
3)Like I said, MiS does not work on vanilla humans. Just the bakemono adjacent.
So moot point anyway.

1)It kind of is. But I care more about being able to help people on a large scale then our reputation.
2)It does seem anymore likely to happen then it does at any church.
3) Of course only people that it actually helps are going to go for the deal.

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?