Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Fascinating difference to the Shih, or those half-vampire order.

They hunt, even though they are barely greater than mortals, while these practicioners merely try to survive.
I would guess it's as much a matter of mindset as of powers, since a decent Sorcerer isn't actually weaker than any of the minor splats.
Sorcerer are very weak without prep work. Basicly all their power is in rituals, and the like. And for mortals even the combat paths are not really combat viable, they simply cannot roll enough dice to have better then 40% to fry their opponent, before they get pasted. And that is for a high level scorer, lower tier sorcerers are much slower on the cast.
 
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[X] As a powerful but ultimately human ally, a force for good that is ready to stand against the powers preying against them, a resource they could call upon
-[X] Etiquette and Leadership excellencies, Empathy too if needed
-[X] Consult with dad on how to make this work. He has a lot of experience meeting powerful men and things that only pretend to be men.
-[X] TTC and BSM for makeup, hair styling, clothes selection and such to make yourself look like the image you want to present
-[X] STUNT: Your day starts with making yourself look human. This is a but more literal for you than for many girls your age. Strange looking machinery scrubs your skin, washes and styles your hair, applies make up with micron scale precision. Your mom serves as the judge to how you look. In the front yard Black Rider waits to ferry you to the meeting place.

I am tempted with "Molly" option and stunting bringing them home-made cookies.

The point is honesty. To show them that we are not deceiving them, yet not scare them away. Consulting with dad is because he has been in a lot of meetings, and probably knows how to do "be not afraid" correctly.

And most importantly of all, we don't want them to think of us as "other". If we are to make paranet, and a better one than in Canon, that's critical. And making it is critical in empowering them.
 
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I think I am explaining badly. The lock is not flimsy. It would take about as much effort to break it, as breaking a door - that's the criterion @DragonParadox established for CCC to trigger. Doable with our strength and sword, but taking effort, and probably at least a turn of time. The binding is "if we try to leave the room, our armored ankle bracelet will shock our leg, causing it to spasm and preventing us from moving".

CCC should trigger in this situation. Same as with having a door locked with an electronic lock in our workshop, which was the initial example of CCC utility, or having someone (the monk teaching us) making an oath not to let us leave, unless we master his lesson, which is an IC example of Molly considering CCC abuse (discarded because of social niceties, not because it wouldn't work). CCC isn't limited to helping us achieve the easiest escape possible (such as breaking the window, or turning off electricity to stop the lock from working, or using flight to escape the monk). As long as we are working towards escaping, it should work.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree in a few places.

A one turn loss is a serious problem in an environment we can't control. Training in a safe place is one thing, but being hobbled outside of that is asking for someone to exploit it.

There's also the matter of impact on the scene in a less mechanical level. Lots of creatures, in particular those of Winter, have a whole thing about testing strength and exploiting weakness.

Inviting them to test us isn't ideal, because it could easily end with us needing to ends fights that never needed to start in the first place.

Think back to when we recruited the ghouls. Usum warned us that being modern human polite would read as weakness, even with the demon empress aura she was slapping them with. At which point we'd need to kill one just to establish our credentials.

Being restrained could easily map to the same sort of thing.
So you tell her, not the details, not why you had come to be in Actis Tor in pain and doubt, that in that endless chill you had found a crown meant for a mortal brow, a weapon fit for your hand that wished to be wielded and by its power you escaped...
Not as bad as it could have been, but more information than I'd preferred for us to share.

We really need to get better about this in the future though; information sharing is dangerous. The rule of thumb should be to share nothing unless it's necessary to meet some specific goal, you have some trust in the person you're sharing with, and a good idea of the risks if it gets out. Which is why the idea of agreeing to share something without knowing what would be asked made me so twitchy.

It's the little things that can really make you regret leaking. An IRL example of this sort of thing would be various times where the press has caught wind of test events and training exercises for the military from catering orders and hotel bookings.

You never know what little thing will fit together with puzzle pieces already in someone else's hands to form a picture you don't want them to have. You can't keep some things perfectly secret but you can make it harder to pick them out, and consequently raise the barrier to entry for even being able to try getting clever.


That image might be a little bit hard to sell, in a vacuum. In all honesty, if we could lean on Michael again for that "Knight of the cross is vouching for you" rep, that would be great.
we probably don't want to come on too strong at first anyway, because being a protector also makes you a dangerous person to be near in the first place.

Working our way up to it would give us space to develop relationships without spooking them.

Given what we've already shared and who Molly actually is playing up being a young giant might be a good bet.

The implications of Molly's power are pretty bad from a direct observation perspective, so the point on youth and just a dash of inexperience would be helpful in taking some of the teeth out of the concerns without revealing new information.

It's also close enough to the truth to make it easy to maintain for Molly until we have more specific requirements.

[X] Plan A Growing Girl
-[X] As someone who has found and claimed great power that is still growing into her grasp of it.

Something like this, might need a little more detail to shape it further.
 
Sorcerer are very weak without prep work. Basicly all their power is in rituals, and the like. And for mortals even the combat paths are not really combat viable, they simply cannot roll enough dice to have better then 40% to fry their opponent, before they get pasted. And that is for a high level scorer, lower tier sorcerers are much slower on the cast.
Mortal self-defence enhanced by Enchantment, Alchemy and Fortune or such would still give them a fair chance.
And if you really need to fry a guy with the Hellfire Path you can spend mana on ensuring success, assuming you have any.
Even the Alpha's basic shapeshifting gives them a fair shot at some minor threats.

I'm not saying that a community of minor practicioners could stand when the Red Court or a Fey-Lord sends a real killteam, but they could deal with most lone predators.
 
[X] As a powerful but ultimately human ally, a force for good that is ready to stand against the powers preying against them, a resource they could call upon
-[X] Etiquette and Leadership excellencies, Empathy too if needed
-[X] Consult with dad on how to make this work. He has a lot of experience meeting powerful men and things that only pretend to be men.
-[X] TTC and BSM for makeup, hair styling, clothes selection and such to make yourself look like the image you want to present
-[X] STUNT: Your day starts with making yourself look human. This is a but more literal for you than for many girls your age. Strange looking machinery scrubs your skin, washes and styles your hair, applies make up with micron scale precision. Your mom serves as the judge to how you look. In the front yard Black Rider waits to ferry you to the meeting place.

I am tempted with "Molly" option and stunting bringing them home-made cookies.

The point is honesty. To show them that we are not deceiving them, yet not scare them away. Consulting with dad is because he has been in a lot of meetings, and probably knows how to do "be not afraid" correctly.

And most importantly of all, we don't want them to think of us as "other". If we are to make paranet, and a better one than in Canon, that's critical. And making it is critical in empowering them.
You're pushing too far, too fast. Nobody does anything for free in their world, and we are pretty scary on a number of levels.

Better to focus on establishing something powerful but non-threatening before we get into emphasizing our potential as a resource.
 
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree in a few places.

A one turn loss is a serious problem in an environment we can't control. Training in a safe place is one thing, but being hobbled outside of that is asking for someone to exploit it.

There's also the matter of impact on the scene in a less mechanical level. Lots of creatures, in particular those of Winter, have a whole thing about testing strength and exploiting weakness.

Inviting them to test us isn't ideal, because it could easily end with us needing to ends fights that never needed to start in the first place.

Think back to when we recruited the ghouls. Usum warned us that being modern human polite would read as weakness, even with the demon empress aura she was slapping them with. At which point we'd need to kill one just to establish our credentials.

Being restrained could easily map to the same sort of thing.
Which is why this isn't a gimp suit of resplendent glory, but an ankle monitor that locks us in a room, and triggers if we try to leave the scene, rather than if we try to move/ make a couple of steps.

It has its drawbacks, but mostly I think those would be of "fleeing enemy gets to escape" type, rather than "we are put in danger".

I am also not planning to tell Mab or anyone else about using ccc. We establish the conditions before calling her. If we want to use ccc in combat, we either use non-verbal controls (up to and including direct neural interfaces which should probably be available with advanced tech kingdom), or pre-made commands code word commands, like "chair" meaning "don't let me leave this room for the next ten minutes or until all enemies are subdued, whichever comes first". We will obviously need to work details out, like the exact terms of our "imprisonment" for a number of situations, but it should be doable, and -3 difficulty on all rolls towards achieving a goal is too tempting to pass by. And I don't consider this cheese. Using Prince of Ruin Attitude to make communism work, or to give Mars magnetic field (since right now it's core is non functional in generating it), or to cause volcano eruptions is cheese. This isn't. Speaking of, @DragonParadox , can we use Prince of Ruin Attitude to restore ozone layer, terraform planets (since they are non-functional in the sense that they don't support life), and cause volcano eruptions by reigniting cold volcanoes? Oh, and to reanimate bodies of our servants who don't have souls.

I have put a lot of thought in it, and I thank you for the criticism, as it helps me refine the concept.

If fae do discover that we cannot leave... Now, that's a question on how they would react. On one hand, if they don't know about ccc, this looks like some sort of a handicap. Mab is smart enough to deduce that this is probably a part of some ritual. She won't be able to feel its effects, however... Whether she's going to be offended is a question.
 
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Mortal self-defence enhanced by Enchantment, Alchemy and Fortune or such would still give them a fair chance.
And if you really need to fry a guy with the Hellfire Path you can spend mana on ensuring success, assuming you have any.
Even the Alpha's basic shapeshifting gives them a fair shot at some minor threats.

I'm not saying that a community of minor practicioners could stand when the Red Court or a Fey-Lord sends a real killteam, but they could deal with most lone predators.
Their not exalted. Exalted get much much reduced xp cost and training time compared to mortals. For mortals I think it is 10xp per dot. Maxing a single path is 150 xp, for a mortal that is decades of work generally. For Molly it is just 34xp.

One of the reason VEE is so powerful is it just skips all that and goes straight to results.
 
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You're pushing too far, too fast. Nobody does anything for free in their world, and we are pretty scary on a number of levels.

Better to focus on establishing something powerful but non-threatening before we get into emphasizing our potential as a resource.
Charities exist. We are a daughter of a Knight of the Cross. We have a suitable backstory, which we shared (Arctis Tor imprisonment) to want to protect others from going through similar events.

I don't expect them to trust us immediately, but I want them to know that we are there, and what we are about. Eventually someone will contact us for help, and it'll go great. They'll share their experiences, and trust will increase.
 
Speaking of, @DragonParadox , can we use Prince of Ruin Attitude to restore ozone layer, terraform planets (since they are non-functional in the sense that they don't support life), and cause volcano eruptions by reigniting cold volcanoes?

I have put a lot of thought in it, and I thank you for the criticism, as it helps me refine the concept.

If fae do discover that we cannot leave... Now, that's a question on how they would react. On one hand, if they don't know about ccc, this looks like some sort of a handicap. Mab is smart enough to deduce that this is probably a part of some ritual. She won't be able to feel its effects, however... Whether she's going to be offended is a question.

Planets are not technological So Prince of Ruin Attitude does not work. For something to be 'broken' or 'nonfunctional' it has to have served that function in the past, not just 'done the thing' served a function which implies the intent of some intelligent creator/designer. Mars back when it could support life did not function for the benefit of said life, but if you found a broken Rimworld that you could restore with PRA.
 
Which is why this isn't a gimp suit of resplendent glory, but an ankle monitor that locks us in a room, and triggers if we try to leave the scene, rather than if we try to move/ make a couple of steps.

It has its drawbacks, but mostly I think those would be of "fleeing enemy gets to escape" type, rather than "we are put in danger".

I am also not planning to tell Mab or anyone else about using ccc. We establish the conditions before calling her. If we want to use ccc in combat, we either use non-verbal controls (up to and including direct neural interfaces which should probably be available with advanced tech kingdom), or pre-made commands code word commands, like "chair" meaning "don't let me leave this room for the next ten minutes or until all enemies are subdued, whichever comes first". We will obviously need to work details out, like the exact terms of our "imprisonment" for a number of situations, but it should be doable, and -3 difficulty on all rolls towards achieving a goal is too tempting to pass by. And I don't consider this cheese. Using Prince of Ruin Attitude to make communism work, or to give Mars magnetic field (since right now it's core is non functional in generating it), or to cause volcano eruptions is cheese. This isn't. Speaking of, @DragonParadox , can we use Prince of Ruin Attitude to restore ozone layer, terraform planets (since they are non-functional in the sense that they don't support life), and cause volcano eruptions by reigniting cold volcanoes? Oh, and to reanimate bodies of our servants who don't have souls.

I have put a lot of thought in it, and I thank you for the criticism, as it helps me refine the concept.

If fae do discover that we cannot leave... Now, that's a question on how they would react. On one hand, if they don't know about ccc, this looks like some sort of a handicap. Mab is smart enough to deduce that this is probably a part of some ritual. She won't be able to feel its effects, however... Whether she's going to be offended is a question.
If we start doing this it will be noticed and exploited against us. Observing the weird details of supernatural stuff and exploiting the fine print is the bread and butter if wizards and most near mortal supernatural entities.
Charities exist. We are a daughter of a Knight of the Cross. We have a suitable backstory, which we shared (Arctis Tor imprisonment) to want to protect others from going through similar events.

I don't expect them to trust us immediately, but I want them to know that we are there, and what we are about. Eventually someone will contact us for help, and it'll go great. They'll share their experiences, and trust will increase.
Charities exist on the mortal end of the street; these people live in a world in which they are food that gets by on being slightly harder to get at then the average bag of Doritos and that is the context they're viewing us in.
 
Planets are not technological So Prince of Ruin Attitude does not work. For something to be 'broken' or 'nonfunctional' it has to have served that function in the past, not just 'done the thing' served a function which implies the intent of some intelligent creator/designer. Mars back when it could support life did not function for the benefit of said life, but if you found a broken Rimworld that you could restore with PRA.
We need to find Autochtonia! And yes, I realize that won't work, because that's intruding upon a different Primordial's mythos.

Also, a bit more seriously - could we heal defects of our servants' bodies (such as blindness, or non-functional limbs) with Prince of Ruin Attititude? "Your body is a machine", and all, and we believe in intelligent creator (is Molly a creationst or does she belive in evolution, by the way). Or is this too dehumanizing?
 
We need to find Autochtonia! And yes, I realize that won't work, because that's intruding upon a different Primordial's mythos.

Also, a bit more seriously - could we heal defects of our servants' bodies (such as blindness, or non-functional limbs) with Prince of Ruin Attititude? "Your body is a machine", and all, and we believe in intelligent creator (is Molly a creationst or does she belive in evolution, by the way). Or is this too dehumanizing?

Bodies are not machine-like to fall under the purview of the Wicked City from which you took the charm, at least not organic bodies.
 
If we start doing this it will be noticed and exploited against us. Observing the weird details of supernatural stuff and exploiting the fine print is the bread and butter if wizards and most near mortal supernatural entities.
Which is why we don't use it constantly, and obfuscate it with some made-up rituals and such. Maybe put a show of drinking some sort of potion.
hmmm

"Looks at Hell and Kingdom allowing tech-hells"

HMMMMMM
I'll note that there is a giant technological moon-sized labyrinth buried under the ice of the Fivefold Courts, which might or might not be the shadow of a memory of Malfeas (or Autochton). And I didn't even plan it this way, really.
 
Merry Christmas y'all.
Only to make them send a message. Which is extremely masquerade breaking. It is possible that we might someday have a message so important that every children toy for miles around should join in saying it, but it feels like an edge case.
Not every major encounter in Dresden Files happens inside a city. The events of War Cry happened out in the countryside. So did the events of Ghoul Goblin. Camp Kaboom was out in the boonies as well. The final confrontation of Blood Masks happened out on the Raith estate, well away from outsiders. Same with the final fight of White Night and Death Rites.

Furthermore, its a long established fact that a favored strat for a lot of supernatural predators(AND a lot of wizards) is to shut down technology. Its a cheap spell, easy to use, and scales very high indeed.

In Small Favor, the Brothers Gruff attack on the Carpenter household started with shutting down power to the entire housing block.
In the same book, the hob attack on the Union Station railway station started with making tech unusable.
In Turn Coat, the naagloshii shut down every electronic device in the Raith estate before ragdolling them.

In Dead Beat, the Heirs of Kemmler shut down power and most phones and radios in the entire fucking city of Chicago.
Only some landlines worked.

Being able to ignore power constraints and simply make public access communication work is a boon without price.
So is being able to fuck with enemy radio comms and use it to directly social all their troops at once.
We DID just see a Rampire Bloodpack using tactical radios.

And that assumes that Molly doesnt figure out how to be selective about which speakers she activates; nothing in the charm says we must activate every speaker grille in our range every time we use it.

There is this amazing thing called cell phones. Or even cell phones with cyberdevils in them.
Cellphones dont work underground.
They dont work out in the wilderness, or in the NeverNever, or anywhere that the physical infrastructure of a transmitter network lacks coverage or does not exist. They cannot reach across the dimensional barrier to every citizen sworn to us in our Hell.

And we do not have the Essence capacity to mass HMP cellphones anyway.
don't think that we have ever had reason to keep moving for 24 hours or even the time to.
We dont care about Essence regen.
We care about not getting tired in the middle of a fight, or during a chase scene, or while trying to run or fly while carrying people.

Bolded bit specifically are of interest.
Reflexive running might also be interesting, there is a bunch of stuff in Skinned Alive that requires Infernal to be moving to work. Nobody cares about Essence regen, sure.
Yeah.
Note that as written, that means that we can rock on a hammock, or a swing or rocking chair, and activate that effect.
Great for pulling all-nighters.
 
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[X] As Molly Carpenter, a newly active member of the greater supernatural community, previously aware of its existence but largely sheltered from it due to our age and parental concerns.
-[X] Use Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies, with an aim toward easing the concerns and misgivings of those who might react negatively to our apparent nature.
 
Merry Christmas DP. And thanks for the update.

COMMENTARY
"You know it's not something that is done very often, answering that many questions." Pauline shifts uncomfortably on her seat not-quite-looking at dad .
Going to point out that the woman is just barely stopping herself from chiding us about revealing personal secrets carelessly.
And essentially wondering why our father isnt stopping us. She is the third person to do this, after Harry and Bob.
It would be nice if we actually paid attention.


-Note when I said people keep their secrets?
Exhibit A: Ms Moskowitz here brought an invisible companion to this conversation, and she didnt mention it to anyone.
Its four feet tall, and material enough to block air currents, so its not just an immaterial spirit.

Its either an invisible construct of some sort. Or its some denizen of the NeverNever. Possibly shen. Possibly Fae.
DPoE didnt proc, so it isnt a CoD.
Makes a good argument for Hellscry Chakra and All Things Betray.


-The woman couldnt resist taking a jab at the White Council, even now.
"This is a world at war and it has been so long before the White Council noticed that vampires are indeed terrible." She laughs, sharp and hollow.
She really does feel bitter towards them.
I'm guessing she's lost people before, and the White Council's protection isnt as comprehensive as she would like.
Nevermind that there are good reasons there.

Wasnt that long ago that the Red Court had a local presence, but with Dresden wiping out Bianca's court, and winning that duel with Ortega, Chicago has been a lot safer on the street level than it was five years ago.


-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
People who have read the books starting from Storm Front will remember the name. And the implications.
Looks like we're getting involved in the events of White Night half a year or so early.


-Molly cant afford to stage a takeover. Not atm.

She has the stats to talk her way into control. But she'd be spreading herself a little thin to do so.
And frankly, her direct involvement is going to spook and scare off a bunch of the magical sensitives who would need the help and counselling.

What she can provide is logistics support and financing. Maybe advice.
Thats another 3-4 million trust we need to budget for to expand the Ordo Lebes into the Paranet.

Not as bad as it could have been, but more information than I'd preferred for us to share.
We really need to get better about this in the future though; information sharing is dangerous.
The rule of thumb should be to share nothing unless it's necessary to meet some specific goal, you have some trust in the person you're sharing with, and a good idea of the risks if it gets out. Which is why the idea of agreeing to share something without knowing what would b
Its actually worse than it first appears. The people we just told all this to are, in order:

-Ms Pauline Moskowitz, a hedge mage who seems well meaning, but whose loyalties, and critically, debts, we dont know.

-An invisible companion (name unknown, type unknown, sapience unknown) who is loyal to Ms Moskowitz, but who owes us no loyalty, and will presumably prioritize its own safety and that of Ms Moskowitz over our information security if anyone should attempt to coerce it.

-From Ms Moskowitz to a bunch of hedge mages associated with Ms Moskowitz, who we dont know personally, who owe us no loyalties, whose debts are unknown, and who are in general explicitly weak enough that a supernatural predator can coerce them for information. Or simply take it from them.

To put their weakness in some context: The Ordo Lebes and others being targeted and murdered by a single White Court vampire was most of the inciting plot of White Night, the next mainline Dresden Files book. They didnt notice the Skavis was a Whampire when it literally joined their coven. To be fair, Elaine didnt either.

And last of all:

-Mrs Helen Beckitt.
Aka Miss Demeter. Manager of Executive Priority Health. Gentleman John Marcone's mistress.

Yes, Helen Beckitt is a genuine and loyal member of the Ordo Lebes in canon. She's also an excon who went to jail because she was one of the patsies/financial backers of Victor Sells, the starter villain of the first Dresden book Storm Front. The other backer was her then-husband, who also went to jail, and died there.

When she got out of jail, Marcone hired her on as a brothel madam health gym manager.
She is his mistress. She's also the mother of that child that got shot during a gangwar who Marcone is guilty about.
She doesnt know the child is alive and in a vegetative state in a nursing home.

You never actually know who you are talking to.


So in conclusion:

We literally just watched Kattrin Sigfriddsdottir try to EAT a death god for power, something with no real modern precedent.
Then we just went out and blithely announced that our power is designed for humans and is inheritable.
To a person/people who told us their group is too weak to fight off attack.

When this gets out, half the powerhungry practitioners out there are going to go look for more Exalted shards, and get themselves and other people in trouble. The other half are going to try to figure out how to pry this loose from us.
And it wont just be evil people doing this: see The Warrior short story.


There is a bloody good reason why the default regarding information sharing is: Shut The Fuck Up.
If you are not absolutely sure they have need to know, and can keep their own mouths shut? Shut the fuck up.
You will often risk more harm than good.

And you give other people concerns about your ability or willingness to keep their secrets when you cant keep yours.

Wizards dont give power point presentations about their powers or early training.
Mab doesnt talk about her affair with the first Merlin, or how she ended up Winter Queen. Harry does not advertise that he's been guarding Fidelacchius for the last two years.

Ebenezar McCoy hasnt actually told Dresden that he's his grandfather.
Harry hasnt told Ebenezar, his last teacher and the man who saved his life, that he has a halfbrother who's a Whampire.
Thomas hasnt told Harry that he's a Venator.
 
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[X] As Molly Carpenter, a newly active member of the greater supernatural community, previously aware of its existence but largely sheltered from it due to our age and parental concerns.
-[X] Use Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies, with an aim toward easing the concerns and misgivings of those who might react negatively to our apparent nature.
 
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