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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
Not really. At least not in the Dresden Files.

Dresdenverse Gods dont appear to need worship to live; it might make them powerful to begin with(seems a reasonable assumption, but no textev IIRC) but they dont need the empowerment to live or maintain power levels.The Hecatean Hag that was trying to ascend had no worshippers and was seeking none.

They just need to be remembered to affect the mortal world as gods, but they dont need worship to live.
The Oblivion War, for example, is being fought to lock a whole bunch of gods away from our reality; noone involved seems to think it will kill them, just stop them being able to affect the mortal world.
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I would say the sort of beings the Oblivion war targets are a whole lot more hardy than any Old Gods and I cannot say more than that without spoilers

Prospalz said:
Understandable. Could she use it to power Path magic, at least?

...Do I understand correctly that it does actually work perfectly fine for Molly?
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  1. Path magic does not need Mana when you can throw as many successes at it as an Exalt can so the mana path is kind of superfluous.
  2. Ah... no I was referring to the bleach bath special (TM) letting her regen Essence
 
BronzeTongue said:
Did we get a ruling about this? Cause if we can effectively teleport around following water sources we can basically zoom around the continental US with as much ease as the great lakes. The US has an absolutely crap ton of rivers and water routes, especially if you don't need to worry about navigating them with a boat.

Historically exploiting even the subset that can be traveled by boat was critical to the economic development of the United States.
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Yes, here:
DragonParadox said:
  1. You get to come out at whatever part of the body of water you like, yes that means you can cross the Atlantic in one use of the charm, strong but seems to be very much Rules as intended for the charm's fluff
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uju32 said:
Sure, its huge.
But none of which is relevant to Molly's shortterm aims prior to November, when she turns 18.

We arent going diving, or travelling across the ocean, or crawling random treasure wrecks. We get nothing from it that would help, and might draw unnecessary aggro either by poking in claimed territory, or when we try to dispose of whatever we recover.
And we're nowhere near strong enough to be confident of soloing strong mobs in their home territory.

Maybe when we have unlocked magic crafting or Alchemy and Enchanting, there might be a need. And hopefully we'll be stronger.
RVD's travel options are largely irrelevant right now.
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Why not? We can get XP quite quickly with this. This is exactly an option to gain XP before meeting Mab. Do a bunch of short term low hanging fruit side-quests to gain XP.
uju32 said:
Good, not great. Cha/Man 3 + Etiquette 3 is 6 dice. With Excellency, 12.
Remember Charity beating us at social combat? There is a non-zero number of people in our vicinity whose social offense is so-so at best, but whose social defenses are top-tier for one reason or another.

And we wont often get warning when Players rock up to play social combat.
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Difficulty modifiers and dice adders are far more relevant here. I see more opportunity to gain XP in technology excellency than I do in etiquette 4.
 
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uju32 said:
1)I dont recall Lydia having a perfect attack. Can you recall the page?
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It got edited out, but here's a quote of me quoting the original charm to pull up that section of the discussion.

BronzeTongue said:
I still think this is too much. Terrestrials get perfect attacks that do stuff on the order of dealing fixed amounts of damage and maybe a special effect like knockdown. They don't get to play the essence boosted super damage dice games celestials do unless someone gives them MA that allow it. That's part of why the Siddies were needed for the usurpation to work.

A terrestrial shouldn't hit as hard as a celestial right out of the box, they should need to take MA powers to bridge the gap.

They're supposed to be a lower order of magnitude exalt, not just solaroids with smaller gas tanks.

Her native perfect should be something like the shout charm I posted, with a little perfect damage and some nice debuff instead of letting her throw her entire attack and damage dice pools as unblockable lethal damage.
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uju32 said:
2) We dont know what happened. While I certainly am not inclined to be charitable, I think I should point out Dresden summoning the Erl King and binding him in a circle during Dead Beat as a reminder that under the right circumstances, mortals enjoy certain advantages over deities with assigned roles.
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Not being able to handle this one way or another is a critical issue for someone whose job is to hunt necromancers. I don't expect him to be perfect, but getting played that hard when he was specifically coming for them isn't really filling me with confidence in him.

In regards to drive, we can just put a demon in the rented car for the length of the trip.
DragonParadox said:
The way I see it being 'asleep' is the first step on the road to the grave. Gods need worship, not only to have mortals to interact with but to define and anchor their mantles. In energy terms there is no such thing as a free lunch, which means that you can only last in a coma for so long before you slip from slumber into non-existence. This feels consistent with canon and it has nice parallels to how gods work in Exalted as well. Not everything has changed after all.... just most things.
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That changes the equation a little; my understanding of canon was that losing worship didn't kill you, it just meant you had to hang out in the nevernever instead of the mortal world. Which is basically the majority of existence anyway.
 
Yog said:
Why not? We can get XP quite quickly with this. This is exactly an option to gain XP before meeting Mab.
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No we cant.

Earth is not free real estate.
Much of this territory has claimants, even places as remote as the Andes. Most shipwrecks of any value has claimants.
Attempting to launder this stuff will draw more attention than we can currently afford.

We dont need and cant afford the aggro when we have much less perilous ways of making money.
Yog said:
Difficulty modifiers and dice adders are far more relevant here. I see more opportunity to gain XP in technology excellency than I do in etiquette 4.
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I dont really agree.
Social combat is a very big deal.
 
DragonParadox said:
Path magic does not need Mana when you can throw as many successes at it as an Exalt can so the mana path is kind of superfluous.
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IIRC, a couple of really powerful spells and rituals needed 1 point of mana to activate? Might be misremembering, tho.
uju32 said:
Bond to a Dragons Nest, and her Essence regen goes up IIRC.
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I was mostly thinking about Infusion ** and other effects that would've allowed to expand Lydia's small essence pool into something far less limiting. Higher dots also allow a bunch of other cool things, but they are not super important rn.
 
DragonParadox said:
In such cases mana can be replaced on a one on one basis with Essence, still not really worth the buy from what I can see
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For someone who has 6 points of Essence at E2 and no way to quickly regain it, essence conservation is pretty important, and throwing away essence on something that could be powered with Mana kind of hurts. Given that mana stockpiling starts at 2 dots and gets better, it might be a decent buy for Lydia, if - big if - her Path XP costs are decent.

It is not a great buy, given that she can't convert mana into essence - alas, that would have been a pretty sharp boost - but if she does go deep into Sorcery...
 
DragonParadox said:
In such cases mana can be replaced on a one on one basis with Essence, still not really worth the buy from what I can see
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DragonParadox said:
Path magic does not need Mana when you can throw as many successes at it as an Exalt can so the mana path is kind of superfluous.
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I could swear there's a quote in the ExWoD book that Exalts can utilize their Essence as if it was Mana for the purpose of augmenting Path Sorcery.
 
uju32 said:
No we cant.

Earth is not free real estate.
Much of this territory has claimants, even places as remote as the Andes. Most shipwrecks of any value has claimants.
Attempting to launder this stuff will draw more attention than we can currently afford.

We dont need and cant afford the aggro when we have much less perilous ways of making money.
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You are both putting words into my mouth and making a very strong claim.

The words you are putting into my mouth are "we are going to be looking for treasure in terms of monetary value". The claim is "there are jo unclaimed or abandoned ruins, places of power or artifacts in the Earth's oceans". Even you used "most" rather than "all".

I am proposing looking for abandoned places and objects that no one has a claim to. That's specifically designed not to draw aggro. And I am specifically proposing to look for magic, not monetary, treasure

uju32 said:
I dont really agree.
Social combat is a very big deal.
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Yes it is, but we are good at it already.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Not being able to handle this one way or another is a critical issue for someone whose job is to hunt necromancers. I don't expect him to be perfect, but getting played that hard when he was specifically coming for them isn't really filling me with confidence in him.
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You have seen his big moment of failure and then him laying low to escape the consequences of it.
Against Kemmler, who is anything but the norm for Necromancer, or mortal mages at all.
The guy was a genius who could have gone on to be this world's Nagash if there hadn't been a lot of powerful actors working to kill him for good.

Before that Arawn had several centuries of success in his job.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I could swear there's a quote in the ExWoD book that Exalts can utilize their Essence as if it was Mana for the purpose of augmenting Path Sorcery.
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IIRC, I remember something like that. Even if it isn't a thing... It makes sense for it to be a thing?

But Lydia got pretty limited pool so I have been wondering if we can't do anything to effectively expand it, or pay for stuff with less valuable resources.
Yog said:
Yes it is, but we are good at it already.
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I am not looking forward to getting dunked on by Mab in social combat because she actually did prepare properly this once, and we decided to just waltz in with nothing but our broad-spectrum adjusters like BSM and No Honor.
 
Prospalz said:
I am not looking forward to getting dunked on by Mab in social combat because she actually did prepare properly this once, and we decided to just waltz in with nothing but our broad-spectrum adjusters like BSM and No Honor.
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If this was the last charm buy before meetings Mab, I'd be the first to go all in for social stats. It's not. We need to generate as much xp as we can right now, to be in the best position to meet Mab. As such, we need as many possibilities as we can. Etiquette is not an investment that is likely to bring in much xp in short term.

Either RVD (for visiting stuff) or technology excellency (for various types of renovations) would. At least in my opinion. And I am considering switching to RVD.

We will obviously need to up our game by thr time we meet Mab.
 
I may as well try making a plan here. Our upcoming concerns AFAIK are Rosie and protecting her against hostile spirits/ensuring she is not some destitute and homeless single mother. Preparing for another conversation with Mab. Talking to Odin. Finally there is Upgrading Porter's domain.

We've got supplies stashed in a walled off tunnel in the sewers of Cleaveland Ohio and have the skills/tools already. We need to get them into Chicago Undertown in Illinois(344.3 Miles via I80 W) or acquire another source of supplies. Potential approach. Get the White Court renegades in undertown to bring it in if they've got cars. Find a way in the Nevernever to shorten the distance between our stash and Chicago. We also need a higher technology rating for the best possible results. Nevernever plans necessitate Lydia's help or us purchasing a Charm/Calling the Calibration Gate. We could theoretically ask about what the fastest route is from the Carpenter household through the nevernever to that place in Cleaveland. The Nevernever however, is the kind of place that is worth making the effort to avoid unnecessary fights lest we get mote tapped.

Protecting Rosie against Hostile Spirits: Lydia's Ghost Warding Glyph. Approaching Mortimer Lindquist for help
Ensuring Rosie is not a Destitute Single Mother: Win the Lottery? Verdant Emptiness Endowment?
Easing Trauma: Mercy in Servitude if we decide to do that? Also VEE could do that.

Preparing for a conversation with Mab: Social training. Acquisition of things she considers worthwhile to transact for. We have the Gossamer but we could find other things or learn the Exorcism ritual.

Odin: Social Training.

Proposed Plan:

[x]Plan Nevernever
-[x]Ultimate Darkness Internalization(9 XP)
-[x]Stealth 2(5 XP)
-[x]Stealth Excellency(4 XP)
-[x]Technology 2(2 XP)
-[x]Etiquette 4(5 XP)
-[x]Athletics 2(2 XP)

We could theoretically drop the excellency to give Lydia someting, or take Calling the Calibration Gate at the cost of the extra Athletics dot

Edit: I just realized I may have forgotten something with the Price of Etiquette 4
 
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Artemis1992 said:
You have seen his big moment of failure and then him laying low to escape the consequences of it.
Against Kemmler, who is anything but the norm for Necromancer, or mortal mages at all.
The guy was a genius who could have gone on to be this world's Nagash if there hadn't been a lot of powerful actors working to kill him for good.

Before that Arawn had several centuries of success in his job.
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Then he failed complete against the exact necromancers he's necessary to control. You don't need a god to stomp on idiots playing with corpses in their sheds.

Corpsetaker and Holt punking him while he was in town hunting them is a damning failure.

Centuries of alleged success against unknown odds with unknown support don't exactly wipe
away his visible problems.
 
OctarineShrike said:
I may as well try making a plan here. Our upcoming concerns AFAIK are Rosie and protecting her against hostile spirits/ensuring she is not some destitute and homeless single mother. Preparing for another conversation with Mab. Talking to Odin. Finally there is Upgrading Porter's domain.
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Keep in mind that Lydia can open Ways to and from the Nevernever.
It's kinda suboptimal to take it ourselves.
 
@DragonParadox how practical is using the crown to ask for nevernever directions to a location from a location?

Edit: @Artemis1992 We shouldn't presume she'll be there for us all the time, she might have something pressing to do preventing her from acting as our Nevernever assistant.

Edit2: Artemis whose name doesn't end in 1992, if you saw yourself get tagged here it was a typo.
 
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Since my plan is a moot point then I'm just going with Uju's for the moment.

[X]Plan Water Dragon
--[X]Boiling Oil Mastery 4xp
--[X]Transcendent Lord of Flies 4xp
--[X]Mercy in Servitude 4xp
--[X]Etiquette 4 3xp
--[X]Technology 2 2xp
-[X] Lydia
--[X]Essence 2: 8XP
 
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