Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Yeah, Matthew seems like an bad fit. Yes he is right here, but otherwise hes not really qualified. Maybe better to plan to summon someone else up who wants it? Or just naturally let it go to whoever is "next in line"?

Or best case would be rigging up some sort of empty vessel to hold it for us while we talk to Mab. Then we can give it to Mab to give to whoever she wants. But I'm not sure if we can exactly do that. We have a lot of magical expertise here but something like that sounds like it would be a bigger project. Maybe we can make something temporary?
Maybe if we bound Evil Bob tight enough he couldn't even think to get out of it we could use him as a temporary receptacle (or not so temporary) prior to forging him into a fetish. I'm thinking a book bound in Valkyrie skin.

Necronomicon 2: Necro Harder.
-[] The Hell of Burrowing Maggots Charm: Mercy in Servitude (•): Our minions no longer suffer torment while serving our will. 4 XP
Still think False Springs Beckons would work better for that purpose, given it's not restricted to Formori and explicitly alleviates stuff like Frenzy (what the bulk of Vamps and Ghouls are gonna be suffering from). Also it's only 3 XP.
"The practice of necromancy, hard was my battle against the madman Kemmler and near to the cusp of oblivion it brought me, until by guile and by chance I could be certain that his doom had come and he could not be sure that his death curse would be the end of me. He vowed then that he would not seek to slay be, but to cripple the mantle I bore. He said onto me I am one and I am great in mind and spirit, Enlightened to the truth of the world, but men are many and we only grow more so. How long until another and another like me rises and the power cracked in your hand should break."
"The practice of Necromancy" should probably be its own sentence given it's a continuation of the previous thought, and the following thought doesn't flow directly from it.
me
unto
 
-[q]*Call out to Matthews* "We're trying to figure something out and are wondering if you'd be interested". *Explain the Pros and Cons of becoming the new Eldest Ankou*
 
How would giving the mantle to Matthews not piss off Mab?

He has no reason to follow Mab's orders.

It'll be worse than an Ankou.
 
Maybe if we bound Evil Bob tight enough he couldn't even think to get out of it we could use him as a temporary receptacle (or not so temporary) prior to forging him into a fetish. I'm thinking a book bound in Valkyrie skin.

Necronomicon 2: Necro Harder.
Better yet, a Valkyrie skull. There just happens to be one of those available... :whistle:

Seriously, though, using Evil Bob as anything other than sword fodder would be a bad idea.
How would giving the mantle to Matthews not piss off Mab?

He has no reason to follow Mab's orders.

It'll be worse than an Ankou.
The Mantle is still bound to Winter, I believe? Accepting the Mantle is tantamount to choosing to become a Winter Fey.
 
How would giving the mantle to Matthews not piss off Mab?

He has no reason to follow Mab's orders.

It'll be worse than an Ankou.

Political Protection from the White Council if he works for Mab. Power to defend himself against hostile Kemmlerites, Immortality, etc. He's got grandchildren to look after too after all. Mab's backing is a big deal. The thing with that though is you're working for Mab. Question is whether or not he thinks its worth it.
 
Something else that hasn't come up:

Has Mathews done any Black Magic while being forced to work for Katarina?
We did see many many corpses and while I hope those were all done by Katarina, Corpse Taker and Evil Bob, we can't be sure.
The Mantle is still bound to Winter, I believe? Accepting the Mantle is tantamount to choosing to become a Winter Fey.
If it's not, then Mathews will be yet another independent party. Truly pissing of Mab hard.
What does our nice occult rating say to that?
 
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Something else that hasn't come up:

Has Mathews done any Black Magic while being forced to work for Katarina?
We did see many many corpses and while I hope those were all done by Katarina, Corpse Taker and Evil Bob, we can't be sure.

If it's not, then Mathews will be yet another independent party. Truly pissing of Mab hard.
What does our nice occult rating say to that?
If he was forced to use Black Magic, It's an easy escape route from Warden Swords if he signs on with Mab.
 
Still think False Springs Beckons would work better for that purpose, given it's not restricted to Formori and explicitly alleviates stuff like Frenzy (what the bulk of Vamps and Ghouls are gonna be suffering from). Also it's only 3 XP.
False Spring Beckons is a 3-dot charm, so it costs 9 XP. Mercy in Servitude is a 1-dot charm that costs 4. Also, FSB needs to spend 1 essence per person per week to renew, while MiS applies automatically to all of our minions for no cost. And I'm pretty sure we have Word of QM that Frenzy is included in the things that MiS covers, and that both ghouls and vampires qualify for MiS.

[x] WRITE IN - Not your mantle, not your decision. Lay out the options, but otherwise sit back and let the people this actually impacts decide.
-[x] "I can see three solutions. Summon Mab and bargain, but she seek her own ends and cares not for any of us. Summon a lesser Ankou to take the mantle, but do you trust any of the lesser Ankou still bound to Winter to not be an enemy you are empowering? Finally, Matthews could take up the mantle. It would allow him to potentially be free of the bindings he is under, but perhaps at the cost of much deeper bindings. I would not begrudge him this choice though, but let's be clear, it would need to be HIS choice. I will not prevent one unwilling sacrifice only to offer up another. The decision is yours Arawn."
 
I don't understand the obsession with granting Mathews the mantle.

That said: Would Mathews automatically be under Mab's/Winter's authority by accepting it? @DragonParadox

Both whether he even wants it and how much it'd piss off Mab matters to the current vote and it's in doubt.

Given the Necromancers wanted the mantle, I doubt it.
False Spring Beckons is a 3-dot charm, so it costs 9 XP. Mercy in Servitude is a 1-dot charm that costs 4. Also, FSB needs to spend 1 essence per person per week to renew, while MiS applies automatically to all of our minions for no cost. And I'm pretty sure we have Word of QM that Frenzy is included in the things that MiS covers, and that both ghouls and vampires qualify for MiS.
Mercy doesn't work for Rosie while FSB does.
Nitpicking: It's also 1 essence per person per <essence rating>'s weeks. Which is currently two weeks.
 
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I don't understand the obsession with granting Mathews the mantle.

That said: Would Mathews automatically be under Mab's/Winter's authority by accepting it? @DragonParadox

Both whether he even wants it and how much it'd piss off Mab matters to the current vote and it's in doubt.

Given the Necromancers wanted the mantle, I doubt it.

Mercy doesn't work for Rosie while FSB does.
Nitpicking: It's also 1 essence per person per <essence rating>'s weeks. Which is currently two weeks.

No... but it would be suicide for him to try to run off with it, he is not an age old death god.
 
[x] WRITE IN - Not your mantle, not your decision. Lay out the options, but otherwise sit back and let the people this actually impacts decide.
-[x] "I can see three solutions. Summon Mab and bargain, but she seek her own ends and cares not for any of us. Summon a lesser Ankou to take the mantle, but do you trust any of the lesser Ankou still bound to Winter to not be an enemy you are empowering? Finally, Matthews could take up the mantle. It would allow him to potentially be free of the bindings he is under, but perhaps at the cost of much deeper bindings. I would not begrudge him this choice though, but let's be clear, it would need to be HIS choice. I will not prevent one unwilling sacrifice only to offer up another. The decision is yours Arawn."
 
Tactics for the negotiation:
Lydia does not have to accept.

That is the biggest pressure point we have.
Remind her of how little life can mean with the example being Loyd Slate.
She'll definitely get more, but she'll still be serving Winter.

Ankou is self-describing and we need to blunt Mab's anger.
Point out we give her what she needs, if not what she wants and that there wasn't a guarantee she'd get either if she tried.
 
[x] WRITE IN - Not your mantle, not your decision. Lay out the options, but otherwise sit back and let the people this actually impacts decide.
-[x] "I can see three solutions. Summon Mab and bargain, but she seek her own ends and cares not for any of us. Summon a lesser Ankou to take the mantle, but do you trust any of the lesser Ankou still bound to Winter to not be an enemy you are empowering? Finally, Matthews could take up the mantle. It would allow him to potentially be free of the bindings he is under, but perhaps at the cost of much deeper bindings. I would not begrudge him this choice though, but let's be clear, it would need to be HIS choice. I will not prevent one unwilling sacrifice only to offer up another. The decision is yours Arawn."
 
[x] WRITE IN - Not your mantle, not your decision. Lay out the options, but otherwise sit back and let the people this actually impacts decide.
-[x] "I can see three solutions. Summon Mab and bargain, but she seek her own ends and cares not for any of us. Summon a lesser Ankou to take the mantle, but do you trust any of the lesser Ankou still bound to Winter to not be an enemy you are empowering? Finally, Matthews could take up the mantle. It would allow him to potentially be free of the bindings he is under, but perhaps at the cost of much deeper bindings. I would not begrudge him this choice though, but let's be clear, it would need to be HIS choice. I will not prevent one unwilling sacrifice only to offer up another. The decision is yours Arawn."
 
This whole thing has been about making his mantle our problem because Arawn's issues are too big to stay in his lane. It's a bit weird to suddenly leave off at this point. Especially because we haven't answered his question.

Ideally the answer to "what do we give Mab" is that it's less of a headache to eat the food in front of her than it is to go hunting, and Arawn shoots to the bottom of her priority list even if he doesn't necessarily fall off.

Sweetening the pot might be worth our time, but that is a dangerous game to play so I'd only try it if we can't make the rolls to convince her of the first point.

Maybe we could play a money laundering game? Use the crown to acquire a secret she'd like to know, and then offer to share if she accepts the deal. I'm going to make the assumption that people like Arawn and Mab can't read our character sheet at a glance, is preserving just how good the crown of eyes is could be worth our time.

We don't even need to burn our general winter question to do this either. We can do something similar to what we did with Harry's cat. Ask for secret knowledge that Mab would consider worth writing off her revenge for assuming she also gets back the mantle.
 
Maybe we could play a money laundering game? Use the crown to acquire a secret she'd like to know, and then offer to share if she accepts the deal. I'm going to make the assumption that people like Arawn and Mab can't read our character sheet at a glance, is preserving just how good the crown of eyes is could be worth our time.

We don't even need to burn our general winter question to do this either. We can do something similar to what we did with Harry's cat. Ask for secret knowledge that Mab would consider worth writing off her revenge for assuming she also gets back the mantle.
I don't like that idea at all, dude. The very fact that we could provide information valuable to Mab that she wants and didn't already have would make us much more interesting than we already are. At the very least she would want our source, which we could not provide, and at worst she could decide to co-opt us entirely.
 
[X] Plan Chewing What We Bit Off
-[X] Use the crown of eyes on Arawn, seeking a secret Mab would take in exchange for letting him, but not his mantle, go.
-[X] Present the options of giving the mantle to Matthews or a lesser Ankou and ask for input.
-[X] Whichever route is chosen, the new Eldest Ankou will depart to carry a message for Winter's Queen, offering to negotiate settling her grudge with Arawn.
—[X] If possible include a hint of what we're offering. Nothing that could give away valuable information, but enough to identify the topic and general category of knowledge we're offering.
-[X] Avoid or outright refuse to explain how we know what we know if anyone asks.
-[X] Use social excellency during negotiations with Mab, and while composing the message to send her
-[X] Stunt: For a moment Molly's aura seems to sharpen without actually getting brighter, piercing without actually illuminating what it touches. With a breath she opens her eyes and looks at Arawn with countless flaming eyes. "Okay." Molly says as the world dwindles back to normalcy, "We can work with this."
 
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I don't understand the obsession with granting Mathews the mantle.
Because it solves multiple problems that Mathews is likely to have with the White Council and Thule Society both, and with ensuring the security of the newly Awakened granddaughter(s). And because the best hunter of human necromancers is someone with recent experience of humanity and human society.

A human is unlikely to have made the mistake Arawn did about human technology's destructiveness; the American Civil War killed around three quarters of a million soldiers and unknown numbers of civilians barely 40 years previously.
I don't like that idea at all, dude. The very fact that we could provide information valuable to Mab that she wants and didn't already have would make us much more interesting than we already are. At the very least she would want our source, which we could not provide, and at worst she could decide to co-opt us entirely.
1) Usum's shard was buried in the heart of Arctis Tor for centuries, if not millenia. We are already of extreme interest to her.
2)She has eyes and magical senses. She can see what we are.

Remember, supernatural superpower. Her intelligence network is superb.
There are very few things she doesnt have some idea about.
The thing is Arawn might not want to say how it would affect him, particularly in front of his daughter if the price is high. That would be a roll. I do not like slowing things down, but I think that is is very much the lesser evil to just dropping important information (or the awareness that he is not going to give it to you) in a comment. Also this whole thing takes place against the clock, other people are moving so the choice to try to get more information comes with its own costs, which you guys may or may not want to pay.
Fair.
I think we need to know . If we transfer the Mantle to someone else and Arawn starts melting down into a puddle of goo, Lydia is likely to try to make a deal for her father's life anyway. Only from a weaker position.

We still have the Empathy Excellency running, so we should use it.


VOTE
[X]Write-in: Ask Arawn what the effects on him, his daughter and his divinity of shedding the Mantle would be.
-[X]If he balks, Crown of Eyes using the museum dead as a focus. Ask about the consequences to the current bearer/wielder if the Mantle that was present when their ghosts were laid to rest is transferred.
-[X]Ask Arawn if he has some idea of preferred successors among the lesser Ankou
-[X]Ask Harry if he thinks Mathews can carry the responsibility of the Mantle; he's Soulgazed the dude, so he has the best independent assessment of Mr Mathews in the building.
-[X]STUNT: You close your eyes briefly, multiple scenarios running through your head simultaneously as your mind races. Finally, you open your eyes, the multitudinous eyes of your anima banner focusing on the old god before you. "I think Im going to need some clarifications."



REASONS
Front page says we still have 5 Essence. 3-4 Essence is my safety level for Mab Diplomacy.
That means we can, if absolutely necessary, spare 1 Essence to use Crown of Eyes.
We still have 2 turns of the social Excellency running, so we can use it.

Asking what happens to Arawn if Mantle is swapped is Important.
If he is going to deteriorate, we could very well have Lydia trying to make a deal anyway, only with less leverage. She already blundered into a disastrous one with the Corpsetaker. We dont want a scion of her strength making deals in desperation.
An ounce of prevention, et cetera.
 
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I don't like that idea at all, dude. The very fact that we could provide information valuable to Mab that she wants and didn't already have would make us much more interesting than we already are. At the very least she would want our source, which we could not provide, and at worst she could decide to co-opt us entirely.
As Uju said, we're already of interest. Beyond that, we're not going to get to prance out with everything we want.

Our resources are limited, so we need to use what we have to resolve this. We shouldn't be flashier than we need to be, but if we waffle here then we won't actually accomplish anything except giving Mab room to push us around in.
 
Maybe we could play a money laundering game? Use the crown to acquire a secret she'd like to know, and then offer to share if she accepts the deal. I'm going to make the assumption that people like Arawn and Mab can't read our character sheet at a glance, is preserving just how good the crown of eyes is could be worth our time.

We don't even need to burn our general winter question to do this either. We can do something similar to what we did with Harry's cat. Ask for secret knowledge that Mab would consider worth writing off her revenge for assuming she also gets back the mantle.

No, just absolutely positively no, DO NOT DO THE ACTION WHICH GOT BOB GOT Absolutely panicking please. We do not need to paint a target the size of the Sun on Molly's head. Especially since she will be questioning on how the hell a teenage girl got access to information even she would like to know.



"No, what she is actually planning," you say. "I have a form of intelectus that is only limited to asking one question about any one thing and that includes 'what did the person you witnessed on such and such date intend to do'. Used it on Mister." A part of you is really entertained at the notion of telling the Winter Queen that she had been unveiled by the presence of a sleeping cat, not that you are crazy enough to give the game away.

Bob is quiet for a long moment then, the lights of his eyes flaring then falling to am ember and it is only when he finally speaks in a fearful hush that you realize why: "Don't give that away, not to anyone, not to anything! You shouldn't even have told me. You'll be on the lit of every immortal with secrets to keep, which is to say every immortal not to mention that Council's going to scrutinize you with a fine toothed comb and then they will pull out the microscope. Keep it secret, keep it safe."

As Uju said, we're already of interest. Beyond that, we're not going to get to prance out with everything we want.

Our resources are limited, so we need to use what we have to resolve this. We shouldn't be flashier than we need to be, but if we waffle here then we won't actually accomplish anything except giving Mab room to push us around in.

There is a fundamental difference between the interest she has right now and the interest she will have upon learning of the Crown. I can absolutely guarantee that if Mab knew we had this, she can and will do every action possible to get her hands on it. Which is very significant to say the least in terms of forces and capabilities.
 
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