- Location
- washington
They might be aiming for the newer mantle.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
OK then, showtime.
If the Ankou mantle isn't inherently bound in obedience to Winter, that just makes it all the more attractive to kick the can down the road until Molly is powerful enough to transfer it to one of the devils of her personal hell to give it the ability to act independently in the material world.
1)Molly does not need special measures to make the inhabitants of her Hell to act independently in the material world.
She just needs to bring them through.
2)Molly could just make her own Mantles, with blackjack and hookers, if she thinks its necessary for some reason.
All she needs is the magic Crafting Charm + Ancient Sorcery. Add Craft 5 if you want to stack successes.
No disputes with Winter, and its customized.
Its not like making minor gods is something unprecedented.
Sidereal Exalts get to turn people into dragons for a scene, and literally one of the options for an Infernal Exalted familiar makes them a minor hearth divinity that resurrects when killed as long as the Exalt is alive.
Putting this here
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SUMMARY
1)The Fae have always been the footsoldiers guarding the Outer Gates, its just that before it was more of a coalition, with their getting backup from other Powers. They only got autonomy in the last couple thousand years.
2)The Eye of Balor is powerful enough to maybe kill Uriel, if he did literally nothing to stop it and just stood in its beam
3)There were originally forty or fifty thousand Starborn in this cycle.
4)Drakul invented Black Court vampires. His son Dracula created the Black Court.
5)The 1994 disappearance of Milwaukee was set off by a fight between the Summer Knight and Winter Knight
6)Adult wizards largely consider tools like shield bracelets and blasting rods as a crutch.
7)Odin has Soulfire, which is what he has over the other gods, and is how he creates einherjar
Spoilered for the convenience of others.
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SPOILER WARNING
That's actually interesting because we've talked about that on the podcast several times. I think we all agreed on that even if there's a lot of realities there's one Uriel above all realities, is that how you see it?
Sort of. Yeah I mean Uriel's an archangel so he's like-he's kinda omnipresent in the universe in many ways. He's one of God's deputies he kind of has enormous amounts of power, all the archangels do. But yeah that would be the case, is that when you get to the really high levels of power, beings like Uriel are the same everywhere they go. So poor Uriel has to deal with millions and millions of Harry Dresdens because they're always causing problems and they're always making choices and they're always creating new branches for the universe so poor Uriel just has to deal with so many copies of this guy.
There are actually multiple Uriels but they're all kind of copies of the same guy.
No, no. There's one Uriel and he's everywhere. He just exists through all of the bits of time, but for example if you go to an alternate reality there would be a parallel Mab and the two Mabs would be parallel and they probably would be able to like know about each other and talk to each other if they wanted to but they're just really fucking busy they've got a lot to do. But Mab next door would be like "you work for me next door? Well now you work for me, while you're here you work for me".
Why not take advantage?
Yeah exactly, I mean it's Mab, what other way could she react you know. But she's-Mab is tremendously powerful but she's not powerful on a scale like Uriel is where he's in the parallel realities next door and spreading out and so on.
How do the Mothers compare to Uriel? Are they in all realities or are they in parallel?
They're much closer to Uriel because-well I don't want to talk about that yet I'll put it in the books. But the Mothers are much closer to being Uriel they're essentially nigh-unto being gods on the level with you know like Zeus or the Native American gods or the Hindu gods or something like that, they're kind of on that same scale.
So all the big things that stayed immortal and godly and powerful and have to-
And kind of had to take a step back from all the mortal affairs that were going on as a result. Most of the gods did that they were just sort of "okay we're gonna take a step back, we're not really gonna be involved, we're gonna become professional wrestlers" you know that sort of thing.
Sort of. Yeah I mean Uriel's an archangel so he's like-he's kinda omnipresent in the universe in many ways. He's one of God's deputies he kind of has enormous amounts of power, all the archangels do. But yeah that would be the case, is that when you get to the really high levels of power, beings like Uriel are the same everywhere they go. So poor Uriel has to deal with millions and millions of Harry Dresdens because they're always causing problems and they're always making choices and they're always creating new branches for the universe so poor Uriel just has to deal with so many copies of this guy.
There are actually multiple Uriels but they're all kind of copies of the same guy.
No, no. There's one Uriel and he's everywhere. He just exists through all of the bits of time, but for example if you go to an alternate reality there would be a parallel Mab and the two Mabs would be parallel and they probably would be able to like know about each other and talk to each other if they wanted to but they're just really fucking busy they've got a lot to do. But Mab next door would be like "you work for me next door? Well now you work for me, while you're here you work for me".
Why not take advantage?
Yeah exactly, I mean it's Mab, what other way could she react you know. But she's-Mab is tremendously powerful but she's not powerful on a scale like Uriel is where he's in the parallel realities next door and spreading out and so on.
How do the Mothers compare to Uriel? Are they in all realities or are they in parallel?
They're much closer to Uriel because-well I don't want to talk about that yet I'll put it in the books. But the Mothers are much closer to being Uriel they're essentially nigh-unto being gods on the level with you know like Zeus or the Native American gods or the Hindu gods or something like that, they're kind of on that same scale.
So all the big things that stayed immortal and godly and powerful and have to-
And kind of had to take a step back from all the mortal affairs that were going on as a result. Most of the gods did that they were just sort of "okay we're gonna take a step back, we're not really gonna be involved, we're gonna become professional wrestlers" you know that sort of thing.
Well speaking of sweeping through people, so... Ethniu has this superweapon, the Eye of Balor, now that Harry has it is that the kind of weapon that someone even of the level of Mother Winter would appreciate or would she just kind of find that thing quaint and be like "aw that's cute but"?
Oh no, no, that was a weapon of Balor, he was a titan. He was one of the big bads of-he was the big bad of Celtic mythology. But yeah Balor's weapon is something that was so formidable that /the gods/ had to be afraid of it, it was something that-there were multiple stories about it, yeah I mean they're all gonna be impressed. You know at the end of the day when somebody puts a .44 magnum in your face he's got a .44 magnum in your face and that's what Dresden has, the Eye of Balor is a .44 magnum to anybody, it's dangerous.
Is it even like dangerous to Uriel? Or his boss?
If Uriel just stood there in it, yeah, I mean he wouldn't, it could kill him I mean it's- again it's one of those- I mean Uriel is... he's so powerful that he's not even on the scale with everybody else. I mean yeah maybe the Eye of Balor could disintegrate Uriel if Uriel couldn't just immediately teleport anywhere or make the energy go somewhere else or basically do anything at all to defend himself. If he just stood there like a dummy, sure somebody could kill him with the Eye of Balor. He's not going to, freaking archangel.
Well as a quick follow-up then, is that-cause we know um the faerie courts and the queens and stuff they were kind of- they had to come into being for a reason, was that part of Mab's mantle's creation-to be able to stand up to kinds of things like that as like a failsafe?
I don't want to tell you too much about it just yet, but yeah I mean essentially you know Mab has a role and a purpose. So for her to be where she is, yeah is was kind of her duty to be able to stand up to threats like that. She wasn't really anticipated to /have to/ stand up to a titan because everybody was pretty sure they were all taken care of but you know Ethniu's been laying low, biding her time. But at the same time, they did what was appropriate they got everybody together to take on the threat, or at least everybody they could.
So I know I was speaking about- you're probably just gonna hit me with a- you're not gonna tell me now, but somewhere down the line will we know who Mab was?
Yeah, I guess. That'll be something that comes in a little bit more towards the end but she's- you know she's one of these people who- we don't really know what's gonna happen to humans when we start living a really long time. We don't really know what's gonna happen to us and so to create Mab I just sort of extrapolated what happens to people as they- kind of the psychology of people as they get older while subtracting everything that goes along with degenerating, she doesn't degenerate. And the way I look at it she's just become more and more and more and more just sort of rational and grounded in this function of what she's doing to where every part of her psychology, every part of who she is as a person has become subsumed by needing to pursue this necessary function which is defending the mortal world.
So as long as she's doing that I mean that is all she can think about that's all she does and something that she's been doing for so long that it's just routine at this point. I mean, for her it's like "alright yeah, get up, do exercises, have breakfast, kill some enemies, go over here- torment some enemies, threaten some enemies, alright good, work day done." And it never really stops to occur to her- she never really stops to think "should I really be doing this?" because that's never a part of her calculation, her calculation is always "what I'm doing is necessary for the survival of the world, so I could worry about whether this is good or evil, right or wrong, but you know what I think I'll just do my job and move along to the next step" you know. Yeah I don't know what's gonna happen to humans when we start living a really long time but I don't know if it's gonna be very good for us, we'll have to see
Oh no, no, that was a weapon of Balor, he was a titan. He was one of the big bads of-he was the big bad of Celtic mythology. But yeah Balor's weapon is something that was so formidable that /the gods/ had to be afraid of it, it was something that-there were multiple stories about it, yeah I mean they're all gonna be impressed. You know at the end of the day when somebody puts a .44 magnum in your face he's got a .44 magnum in your face and that's what Dresden has, the Eye of Balor is a .44 magnum to anybody, it's dangerous.
Is it even like dangerous to Uriel? Or his boss?
If Uriel just stood there in it, yeah, I mean he wouldn't, it could kill him I mean it's- again it's one of those- I mean Uriel is... he's so powerful that he's not even on the scale with everybody else. I mean yeah maybe the Eye of Balor could disintegrate Uriel if Uriel couldn't just immediately teleport anywhere or make the energy go somewhere else or basically do anything at all to defend himself. If he just stood there like a dummy, sure somebody could kill him with the Eye of Balor. He's not going to, freaking archangel.
Well as a quick follow-up then, is that-cause we know um the faerie courts and the queens and stuff they were kind of- they had to come into being for a reason, was that part of Mab's mantle's creation-to be able to stand up to kinds of things like that as like a failsafe?
I don't want to tell you too much about it just yet, but yeah I mean essentially you know Mab has a role and a purpose. So for her to be where she is, yeah is was kind of her duty to be able to stand up to threats like that. She wasn't really anticipated to /have to/ stand up to a titan because everybody was pretty sure they were all taken care of but you know Ethniu's been laying low, biding her time. But at the same time, they did what was appropriate they got everybody together to take on the threat, or at least everybody they could.
So I know I was speaking about- you're probably just gonna hit me with a- you're not gonna tell me now, but somewhere down the line will we know who Mab was?
Yeah, I guess. That'll be something that comes in a little bit more towards the end but she's- you know she's one of these people who- we don't really know what's gonna happen to humans when we start living a really long time. We don't really know what's gonna happen to us and so to create Mab I just sort of extrapolated what happens to people as they- kind of the psychology of people as they get older while subtracting everything that goes along with degenerating, she doesn't degenerate. And the way I look at it she's just become more and more and more and more just sort of rational and grounded in this function of what she's doing to where every part of her psychology, every part of who she is as a person has become subsumed by needing to pursue this necessary function which is defending the mortal world.
So as long as she's doing that I mean that is all she can think about that's all she does and something that she's been doing for so long that it's just routine at this point. I mean, for her it's like "alright yeah, get up, do exercises, have breakfast, kill some enemies, go over here- torment some enemies, threaten some enemies, alright good, work day done." And it never really stops to occur to her- she never really stops to think "should I really be doing this?" because that's never a part of her calculation, her calculation is always "what I'm doing is necessary for the survival of the world, so I could worry about whether this is good or evil, right or wrong, but you know what I think I'll just do my job and move along to the next step" you know. Yeah I don't know what's gonna happen to humans when we start living a really long time but I don't know if it's gonna be very good for us, we'll have to see
So in the same vein of enforcers and fighters like that we've seen on the faerie side malks and fetches and the gruffs, are there any other races like that that have like a patriarch, like an eldest mantle and someone at the top?
Probably yeah, I mean, there's probably an eldest goblin- there's definitely an eldest goblin that's the Erlking, that's kind of what he amounts to. Basically of anything there's gonna be an eldest mantle somewhere because that's really important to the fae, they respect things that have been around a while. And things that go by quickly, like most mortals, they're fairly meh.
Probably yeah, I mean, there's probably an eldest goblin- there's definitely an eldest goblin that's the Erlking, that's kind of what he amounts to. Basically of anything there's gonna be an eldest mantle somewhere because that's really important to the fae, they respect things that have been around a while. And things that go by quickly, like most mortals, they're fairly meh.
So um, her- slight tangent based on her role which is to be kind of like at the gates when Mab's busy and all that stuff, as far as the guardianship of the gates over time, has it kind of been a cycle where one pantheon falls, the next one picks it up because the other one lost worship and this one got stronger? Or has there always been kind of like a coalition of whichever was top dog at the time was the one in charge?
It's almost always been a bit of a coalition. The fae have always kind of been the foot-soldiers of what was going on, but it's been more recently that they've been given autonomy, which is to say Mab and Titania. And when I say recently I mean like within the past few thousand years. As far as the immortal things are concerned, recent events are, you know, human history.
And were they kind of- to circumvent that whole problem of a continual transition because it seems like if you're losing power based on faith you'd want something a little more permanent like a mantle that goes and stays empowered at all times.
It was less about that... less about the whole thing running on faith and more about the fact that occasionally things got bad and the fae needed backup and that would be when "okay we've got to cover this one, who's got this one? Uhh how about Asgard? Yeah Asgard gets this one, go guys" you know like that. And that was how it went for a long time, pre-history that was pretty much how it went. But as things have gone on, the past couple of thousand years has been mostly the fae in charge. Because essentially they got a sponsor and then they were able to get some actual leadership put in place so.
They got a sponsor?
Yeah I've actually told everybody about it already, it's in the books, you'll have to come up with it yourselves.
Reread!
I know right? That's the next year of our life.
I'll give you a hint, reread Skin Game.
It's almost always been a bit of a coalition. The fae have always kind of been the foot-soldiers of what was going on, but it's been more recently that they've been given autonomy, which is to say Mab and Titania. And when I say recently I mean like within the past few thousand years. As far as the immortal things are concerned, recent events are, you know, human history.
And were they kind of- to circumvent that whole problem of a continual transition because it seems like if you're losing power based on faith you'd want something a little more permanent like a mantle that goes and stays empowered at all times.
It was less about that... less about the whole thing running on faith and more about the fact that occasionally things got bad and the fae needed backup and that would be when "okay we've got to cover this one, who's got this one? Uhh how about Asgard? Yeah Asgard gets this one, go guys" you know like that. And that was how it went for a long time, pre-history that was pretty much how it went. But as things have gone on, the past couple of thousand years has been mostly the fae in charge. Because essentially they got a sponsor and then they were able to get some actual leadership put in place so.
They got a sponsor?
Yeah I've actually told everybody about it already, it's in the books, you'll have to come up with it yourselves.
Reread!
I know right? That's the next year of our life.
I'll give you a hint, reread Skin Game.
Yeah we get some more information in Battle Ground so the question then became... we've had for a while that she was born in the right time frame I think is as close as we got and so we're like "is there /a/ starborn or not?" and obviously in Battle Ground there are multiple now and they're concurrently operating so it opens up some more of those questions.
Yeah there were forty or fifty thousand at first.
What.
Starborn.
Since the beginning of time or right now?
No there were forty or fifty thousand starborn in this cycle at first.
And then they get whittled down.
Yeah it's been about close to forty years there ain't so many of them left.
So is being starborn a pre... do you have to have been mortal to be a starborn?
You just have to have been in the right place. Really you just have to have been unlucky.
Yeah there were forty or fifty thousand at first.
What.
Starborn.
Since the beginning of time or right now?
No there were forty or fifty thousand starborn in this cycle at first.
And then they get whittled down.
Yeah it's been about close to forty years there ain't so many of them left.
So is being starborn a pre... do you have to have been mortal to be a starborn?
You just have to have been in the right place. Really you just have to have been unlucky.
So at least on his more historical timeframe um, I was wondering, there seems to be a slight discrepancy at least on how old the Black Court is because, is that just because Drakul and Drakula (go away book bot) I assume they're older than their historical personas?
Yes, Drakul especially. Drakul has been somebody that popped up in various places in history. I mean history's full of little monsters that aren't really particularly remembered and he's been several of them.
So kind of like Odin with his Beowulf and all that.
Yeah exactly. Once you're immortal and you're interacting with mortals and you know they're just a pain unless you deal with them Memento style, you know, by vanishing from their memory. It just makes life simpler for you when you're an immortal. Oh my gosh, the humans and their issues.
Is his son old enough, how old essentially is the Black Court? Are they the oldest court or are they just...
Okay the Black Court itself is not too much older than Drakula cause has the one who really kind of went crazy making more vampires. His father didn't he just wanted a small handpicked crew of people who were awesome and that was his way of making supersoldiers, was Black Court vampires. But Drakula wanted more of that and sort of let it loose into the world and his father was very displeased.
So it was Drakul who made the Black Court vampires?
Yeah.
We were a little confused, we weren't sure if it was Drakula and Drakul was like "that's a neat thing you made there son, I'm taking it".
Drakul made them, Drakula was the one who made them popular I suppose is the way to think of it. But you've actually seen how Drakul operates, that's just how he's gone through his whole career. Is with this tight group of enforcers and then himself being awesome.
When we saw that scene in the graveyard and I saw that Mavra was the drummer I was like "who are these other guys if she's drumming?"
The old guard, the ones who are still alive, the ones who lived.
Yes, Drakul especially. Drakul has been somebody that popped up in various places in history. I mean history's full of little monsters that aren't really particularly remembered and he's been several of them.
So kind of like Odin with his Beowulf and all that.
Yeah exactly. Once you're immortal and you're interacting with mortals and you know they're just a pain unless you deal with them Memento style, you know, by vanishing from their memory. It just makes life simpler for you when you're an immortal. Oh my gosh, the humans and their issues.
Is his son old enough, how old essentially is the Black Court? Are they the oldest court or are they just...
Okay the Black Court itself is not too much older than Drakula cause has the one who really kind of went crazy making more vampires. His father didn't he just wanted a small handpicked crew of people who were awesome and that was his way of making supersoldiers, was Black Court vampires. But Drakula wanted more of that and sort of let it loose into the world and his father was very displeased.
So it was Drakul who made the Black Court vampires?
Yeah.
We were a little confused, we weren't sure if it was Drakula and Drakul was like "that's a neat thing you made there son, I'm taking it".
Drakul made them, Drakula was the one who made them popular I suppose is the way to think of it. But you've actually seen how Drakul operates, that's just how he's gone through his whole career. Is with this tight group of enforcers and then himself being awesome.
When we saw that scene in the graveyard and I saw that Mavra was the drummer I was like "who are these other guys if she's drumming?"
The old guard, the ones who are still alive, the ones who lived.
Kind of random question, in Peace Talks and Battle Ground Harry still talks like he's poor, what happened to his diamonds?
Oh he still has them he's just not spending them. Two million in diamonds is not nearly as much diamonds as you'd think it is (we need somebody to sit down and get the details on the size and quality of the diamonds to explain how twenty pounds of diamonds becomes two million). Especially when you've got to go trade, when you've got to go pawn so you can't drop too many of them in one place at one time.
That's when the police comes knocking.
Yeah, yeah. So his diamond wealth is sort of trickle wealth he's got to use a little bit carefully.
So we've now seen essentially all the accorded nations basically in one big fight. And you've put that in the books that the accords are something fairly recent and it seems like they stem from the kind of throwaway mention of the Unseelie Incursion in 1994 that comes up in Storm Front and is never talked about again.
That's right.
Are there any particular details or reasons for that event we could get?
I will tell you that it originated in a clash between the Summer and the Winter Knight and it just got out of hand and then things just got completely crazy and I kind of know the story of it in my head, I keep thinking that maybe I should write it up a bit eventually.
That would be cool. Was the Summer Knight the one from Summer Knight, the guy who dies in that book?
Yeah, Roland Reuel vs Lloyd Slate. It started with those two.
Oh he still has them he's just not spending them. Two million in diamonds is not nearly as much diamonds as you'd think it is (we need somebody to sit down and get the details on the size and quality of the diamonds to explain how twenty pounds of diamonds becomes two million). Especially when you've got to go trade, when you've got to go pawn so you can't drop too many of them in one place at one time.
That's when the police comes knocking.
Yeah, yeah. So his diamond wealth is sort of trickle wealth he's got to use a little bit carefully.
So we've now seen essentially all the accorded nations basically in one big fight. And you've put that in the books that the accords are something fairly recent and it seems like they stem from the kind of throwaway mention of the Unseelie Incursion in 1994 that comes up in Storm Front and is never talked about again.
That's right.
Are there any particular details or reasons for that event we could get?
I will tell you that it originated in a clash between the Summer and the Winter Knight and it just got out of hand and then things just got completely crazy and I kind of know the story of it in my head, I keep thinking that maybe I should write it up a bit eventually.
That would be cool. Was the Summer Knight the one from Summer Knight, the guy who dies in that book?
Yeah, Roland Reuel vs Lloyd Slate. It started with those two.
What equipment, if any, of Harry's survived the fire and will he ever get it back?
Very little. In fact, nothing really was magically useful after the fire at his place and there was very little left. Alcohol-based fires burn really hot and it's kind of an issue. As far as getting it back he has to build back and that'll be part of what he's doing, I mean that's part of why we're taking Twelve Months here Dresden hasn't had time to make good equipment I mean he's been making schlocky equipment for the past three books.
Yeah we were talking about it before.
Yeah he's just been- really he's just been throwing stuff together because he hasn't really had a base of operation or really much in the way of resources, that's gonna change now.
Well combined with Mab's training it has forced him to become a lot better without equipment so I'm looking forward to seeing how he will be with equipment again.
Well equipment is- generally speaking the White Council thinks of equipment as a crutch (not that it stops Eb, Langtry or Klaus). They're willing to allow that you can take a staff with you because it's so useful you can use it for so many things so a staff is considered fine but everybody else using equipment they must be a kid because that's kid stuff. Kids make toys because they can't really control their own power, they haven't learned how yet. Dresden makes toys to help him control his power because he hasn't learned how yet, he's gonna be looked at as kind of less than a full adult wizard until he starts doing things without using varous goo-gahs.
Like simply willing a shield into existence.
Yeah it's like you don't have a shield bracelet you just make a shield happen, that's what you're supposed to do as a wizard.
Very little. In fact, nothing really was magically useful after the fire at his place and there was very little left. Alcohol-based fires burn really hot and it's kind of an issue. As far as getting it back he has to build back and that'll be part of what he's doing, I mean that's part of why we're taking Twelve Months here Dresden hasn't had time to make good equipment I mean he's been making schlocky equipment for the past three books.
Yeah we were talking about it before.
Yeah he's just been- really he's just been throwing stuff together because he hasn't really had a base of operation or really much in the way of resources, that's gonna change now.
Well combined with Mab's training it has forced him to become a lot better without equipment so I'm looking forward to seeing how he will be with equipment again.
Well equipment is- generally speaking the White Council thinks of equipment as a crutch (not that it stops Eb, Langtry or Klaus). They're willing to allow that you can take a staff with you because it's so useful you can use it for so many things so a staff is considered fine but everybody else using equipment they must be a kid because that's kid stuff. Kids make toys because they can't really control their own power, they haven't learned how yet. Dresden makes toys to help him control his power because he hasn't learned how yet, he's gonna be looked at as kind of less than a full adult wizard until he starts doing things without using varous goo-gahs.
Like simply willing a shield into existence.
Yeah it's like you don't have a shield bracelet you just make a shield happen, that's what you're supposed to do as a wizard.
Okay, so we wanted to ask about dragons because it's another one of the things where it's like if you go back in enough history that the story feels like it's changed or maybe we're just getting two pieces of the story right. So when Ebenezar says that he was responsible for Tunguska and Dresden says that the last dragon died there, was that the same event?
I don't think it was the last time a dragon was killed but it was one of the times a dragon was killed. Dragons getting killed is a big deal they're events like Tunguska.
And Eb was involved in that?
Yes.
Alright.
So was the resulting explosion, was it his power that's needed to take out the dragon or is that the result of the dragon essentially blowing up?
Well I'm not gonna tell you that. I mean we've got to have Harry worry about that when he's fighting his own dragon, don't we.
Of course.
What does Vadderung have on Ferrovax that kept Ferro from ratting out Dresden during Peace Talks?
The fact that Vadderung could have started a fight that killed Ferrovax. Yeah I mean they could have gone- that was all they were doing- they were sitting there waiting for one of them to pull the trigger. They were basically two gun fighters that were sitting there for the whole meeting with a hand on a pistol the whole time. And that was their dynamic. Ferrovax does not like Vadderung at all.
Is it more personal? Does he have any connection to being the world serpent or is that just because they're on the same powerlevel?
You'll have to see.
He's not gonna answer that one.
Nothing ventured.
Alright, are Hugin and Munin primarily bodyguards or do they function as spies as well?
Oh Hugin and Munin? Mostly bodyguards. They can go out and do stuff but they're not somebody that Odin sends out on a regular basis to do stuff. Odin sends them out on missions along the lines of "alright, Loki got Thor in trouble again, go arrange things so Thor can get out, don't let him know you're there," that's the kind of mission Hugin and Munin get. They do a lot of cleanup behind the scenes and they kind of resent the other gods, they don't have to do all the work.
They resent people like Harry.
Well, they just sort of dislike humans. Humans are complicated, they're always doing things, they're always changing, humans are the worst.
Nobody likes humans.
Really, I mean honestly.
Not even humans.
So the einherjar are revenants, they're people returned, how is that magic related to necromancy and the fact that the einherjar don't need a drum but they are dead and returned?
It's not necromancy it's something else (the soulfire + necromancy mystery remains)- it's one of those things that.... yeah I'll just tell you, I don't know if this is gonna come out anywhere, it's soulfire.
Holy fuck.
Where could that possibly come up? I mean, we don't know anybody who has that power, so.
Yeah that's kind of what Odin's got over the other gods and why the gods don't mess with him, Odin's got fuckin soulfire unintelligble but I heard "can be real".
That's handy. Is that something he got as essentially a result of staying mortal and active in all this? The kind of thing he couldn't have ever gotten if he had stayed what he once was?
That seems like a very clever theory.
I don't think it was the last time a dragon was killed but it was one of the times a dragon was killed. Dragons getting killed is a big deal they're events like Tunguska.
And Eb was involved in that?
Yes.
Alright.
So was the resulting explosion, was it his power that's needed to take out the dragon or is that the result of the dragon essentially blowing up?
Well I'm not gonna tell you that. I mean we've got to have Harry worry about that when he's fighting his own dragon, don't we.
Of course.
What does Vadderung have on Ferrovax that kept Ferro from ratting out Dresden during Peace Talks?
The fact that Vadderung could have started a fight that killed Ferrovax. Yeah I mean they could have gone- that was all they were doing- they were sitting there waiting for one of them to pull the trigger. They were basically two gun fighters that were sitting there for the whole meeting with a hand on a pistol the whole time. And that was their dynamic. Ferrovax does not like Vadderung at all.
Is it more personal? Does he have any connection to being the world serpent or is that just because they're on the same powerlevel?
You'll have to see.
He's not gonna answer that one.
Nothing ventured.
Alright, are Hugin and Munin primarily bodyguards or do they function as spies as well?
Oh Hugin and Munin? Mostly bodyguards. They can go out and do stuff but they're not somebody that Odin sends out on a regular basis to do stuff. Odin sends them out on missions along the lines of "alright, Loki got Thor in trouble again, go arrange things so Thor can get out, don't let him know you're there," that's the kind of mission Hugin and Munin get. They do a lot of cleanup behind the scenes and they kind of resent the other gods, they don't have to do all the work.
They resent people like Harry.
Well, they just sort of dislike humans. Humans are complicated, they're always doing things, they're always changing, humans are the worst.
Nobody likes humans.
Really, I mean honestly.
Not even humans.
So the einherjar are revenants, they're people returned, how is that magic related to necromancy and the fact that the einherjar don't need a drum but they are dead and returned?
It's not necromancy it's something else (the soulfire + necromancy mystery remains)- it's one of those things that.... yeah I'll just tell you, I don't know if this is gonna come out anywhere, it's soulfire.
Holy fuck.
Where could that possibly come up? I mean, we don't know anybody who has that power, so.
Yeah that's kind of what Odin's got over the other gods and why the gods don't mess with him, Odin's got fuckin soulfire unintelligble but I heard "can be real".
That's handy. Is that something he got as essentially a result of staying mortal and active in all this? The kind of thing he couldn't have ever gotten if he had stayed what he once was?
That seems like a very clever theory.
SUMMARY
1)The Fae have always been the footsoldiers guarding the Outer Gates, its just that before it was more of a coalition, with their getting backup from other Powers. They only got autonomy in the last couple thousand years.
2)The Eye of Balor is powerful enough to maybe kill Uriel, if he did literally nothing to stop it and just stood in its beam
3)There were originally forty or fifty thousand Starborn in this cycle.
4)Drakul invented Black Court vampires. His son Dracula created the Black Court.
5)The 1994 disappearance of Milwaukee was set off by a fight between the Summer Knight and Winter Knight
6)Adult wizards largely consider tools like shield bracelets and blasting rods as a crutch.
7)Odin has Soulfire, which is what he has over the other gods, and is how he creates einherjar
Spoilered for the convenience of others.
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Even as a fey mantle it'd still be valuable, but point taken.
I still think it's a fey mantle though, because it shares too much functional overlap with how a lot of similar fey mantles work.
However, based on the WoJ I posted I think Mab will probably still be able to pull fey voodoo on it, because obligations don't need to be two sided in the supernatural sense for them. As long as her mantle acknowledges it the link is real for her.
That's not what they're doing though, or at least not necessarily.
The black feast is for eating the entirety of the target through sympathy and the power they want is the stuff he got under his Arawn name from Kemmler. My assumption is that they'll discard the Ankou mantle or somehow destroy it.
Any plan that involves screwing people more powerful than us while they're watching and we have no leverage is a bad plan.
This is solidly in "Mug Darkseid with a revolver" territory.
- Location
- Germany
This
After a certain level of Arete you become less dependant on Foci.
That works pretty well for the Mage-Adaption.
After a certain level of Arete you become less dependant on Foci.
Winning Vote
Arc 2 Post 48: Lights Out
Lights Out
22st of July 2006 A.D.
The four of you depart in a flurry of encouragement and last minute advice, of words spoken and unspoken, from dad critiquing the the way you hold your low guard in spite of himself to mom interrogating a stone-faced Gard about the driver to Daniel just looking at Lydia. You would tease him, but you have butterflies in your stomach yourself, not at the thought of fighting, or getting hurt, but loosing. This wasn't just about stopping the bad guys, saving the kind, these were the machinations of Powers and Principalities.
As the lights of the city raced over the darkened glass, like a swarm of photo-electric fireflies you wonder at the people walking their dogs, going out on dates and hanging out with friends. How is it fair that they know nothing of what is going on? How is it right that they do not even understand the risks that are being taken a few miles from them, the dance of death and madness? Just because the things hiding in the shadows had made a deal, just because Queen Mab had mediated an Accord, the same Queen Mab who was now pulling strings to turn the confrontation to her will. And the White Council, the ones who were most aligned with the interests of not just other wizards, but regular people well their only representative in the car was in her pocket and trying to get out of it
It strikes you suddenly that the person who was most like the blinded people of the streets outside was Hendricks, he didn't have magical power, nor special blood, nor yet a crown of shadow and flame forged in a time before time.
"Are you worried?" you ask softly turning towards him a little.
"What's worry gonna do for me?" he turns the question around at you.
Rather than answer you just nod and check Clippy again to see where Black Rider is. On track thankfully, between the darkness and the shorter route he can take the great black bulk of the car slides into the parking lot about five minutes before you get there.
Lighting disconnected or damaged comes the factual message that does little justice to the sight that greets you as Hendricks drives up. There's no one in the wide square before the entrance the slight of passing headlights rolling wages of pale color quickly swallowed up by the dark. Ahead the museum looks almost like an old roman temple, the priests of knowledge gone, the fires guttered out.
As you get out of the car Gard checks her axe then the gun hidden on her belt and Lydia looks around the roofs, but Harry takes a more direct approach. "No one move for a bit I'm going to try to take a look at this."
There is nothing to mark the opening of the Sight, most perilous of all wizard's senses, other than the sudden darkening of his expression: "There's some kind of necromantic working leading to the water, but it's not active, less like a thread and more like a pipe waiting for the flood and there is a a black air about the place, like a cemetery on overdrive, not sure if it's meant to keep people out or if that is just a 'happy' byproduct."
"Sooo... do we break in?" Lydia asks hesitantly. "I mean won't there be guards and stuff?"
"This looks like a ritual site and for them to use such a public place means they don't plan to be quiet," Harry explains. "Anyone with eyes to see will know some serious bad mojo went on here and even the people who do not care about that on its own are going to care about the risk of exposure. It's going down tonight."
The first thing to go down is the door as the sword that is Usum cleaves though oak and steel beside Gard's axe... there is no alarm.
"Hexus!" Harry calls out, raising the rune carved rod.
As the hair on the back of your head stands on end the cameras all around you sputter and die for good.
The four of your rush through thee domed entry hall down corridors replete with the works of industry and progress now shrouded in the patina of older darker things. The creaking reconstruction of an old coal mine echoes with the sounds of distant coughing from no mortal mouth, curtains of artificial mist once harmlessly impressive now twist and warp into the shape of faces in agony, limbs bent and broken as wraiths too weak to be refuse to be not, suckling at the edges of blackest power. Eyepieces meant to showcase the ordered dance of matter to the curious public now glow poisoned blue.
"Oh no!" Lydia stops dead in the middle of a hallway pointing up.
Following her hand you spot what seems at first to be a mannequin, some oversized puppet meant to descent as part of the experience, but then you catch sight of a pale face caught in the throes of unspeakable agony, frozen in death and as the light of Harry's staff reaches up you see that the strings are the man's own entrails glistening red and black.
Your stomach churns and part of you wants to just vomit and curl up into a ball, wanting someone anyone to fix this... but you know there is no fixing it now, there is only avenging it and it's up to you.
On you run, shoes clanking almost obscenely loud in the silence between the sighs and moans of the dead, as though with unpious hands you had chosen to open a grave and turn the corpse about to see how it had died. No, you push off the feeling of trespass, recognizing it for what it is, the spoor of spiritual scavengers trying to keep others off their meal.
Looking around you see the others looking a bit more strained as well, but all still resolute, weapons in hand or in the case of Lydia hands slightly raised in some kind of martial arts style... and that is when you hear voices from the corridor ahead living voices accompanied by the harsh white light of flashlights. "Approach clear up to the science exhibit, LLE activity increasing in intensity and frequency, contact still not initiated..."
It does not take you more than a moment to figure out what you had found, Daedalus, the FBI is here.
What do you do?
[] Avoid them, a quick veil should be enough to cover you, but you will have to take a longer route to the Uboat
[] Try to cooperate, you are all on the same side against the likes of Katrina and Evil Bob
[] Write in
OOC: Not quite all the way to combat, but Gard just rolled six successes on six dice to hear those agents so I take that to mean they were making enough noise you could hear them talking in the middle of a thunderstorm and thus you have a clear path to avoid them if you want.
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Rolls
Lydia looks for any birds to question outside the Museum, there are none
Harry using the Sight, good success
Harry taking out the cameras, one roll for all of them, it is a pretty easy spell for him
Willpower Roll not to get mildly hexed:
Molly
Harry
Lydia
Gard
Gard to spot the Feds... make that everyone, everyone heard them
Lydia looks for any birds to question outside the Museum, there are none
Harry using the Sight, good success
Harry taking out the cameras, one roll for all of them, it is a pretty easy spell for him
Willpower Roll not to get mildly hexed:
Molly
Harry
Lydia
Gard
Gard to spot the Feds... make that everyone, everyone heard them
I still find their terminology sort of funny.
I can get not wanting to write reports that look silly to people who aren't in the know, but their refusal to use any of the established terminology in favor of sanitized acronym babble reads like the lingual equivalent of a little kid's security blanket.
Not that I expect them to know or believe everything from the outset, but by this point they should have a good idea of the basics for this kind of stuff.
No time to look at your phone right now, but that was not his voice.
So we have human sacrifice.
Shoestring, unsanctioned covert operation.
Flashlights means no NVGs, the lack of backup means no warrants to be here, and they're primarily armed with radios and firearms that can be hexed in an environment where the opposition has access to undead, both zombies and spectres, and time magic to boot.
The Librarians would know better than this.
They're all gonna die.
And in dying they'll give Kattrin bodies to throw around. Hell, I wont be surprised if Kattrin arranged for them to be here for exactly that purpose; we do know they were compromised to some degree, and if Gard can set up a mortal -repelling ward, odds are Kattrin could.
So their presence here is expected.
Point of correction:
Molly has Permanent Willpower 9, as per the winning chargen plan So Speaks Demon Empress.
She should be rolling 9d10S6, not 8d10S6.
QUESTION
How long does it take Gard to set up her mortal-repelling ward?
The impression she gave us ppeviously was that it was almost instantaneous; maybe one of those runestone things.
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I don't think we want that sort of attention. They'd be useful to work with, assuming they don't try to arrest us on the spot, but they'd definitely try to screw us over after the fact.
They pinned Dresden for a murder they were confident he didn't commit so that they could press gang him. I don't see why they wouldn't immediately turn around and do the same to us with this incident.
Perhaps they'd be more reasonable, but this is the problem with breaking faith like that; people can't trust you won't do it again whenever it suits you.
- She is still down one dot of willpower, she spent two and only recovered one
- Three turns so about 9 seconds, it is a bit more complicated than say dispelling since it works with minds.
- Location
- Earth
Some of that is currently spent IIRC.
- Location
- Germany
You usually roll permanent Willpower, unless specificied otherwise I think?
Temporary is for spending.
They're relying on radios in a tactical scenario against magic opposition.
Despite Wright being well aware of how electronic surveillance fails around magic. And I know even the White Council does not have shielded tactical radios.
They're sacrifices.
1) To my recollection, you spend temporary Willpower but you roll permanent Willpower.
So if you have, say, 6 temporary WP and 8 permanent WP (6/8), if you have to spend WP, you have only 6.
But in a situation where you have to roll WP, you roll 8.
2)Yeah, Im probably leaning towards going around and setting up the ward.
Or veiling and setting up the ward.
The only reason to keep these guys here is as sacrificial meatshields, amd that just provides lives to power up the necromancer
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Who is going to be casting this veil? Gard? Because neither Molly nor Dresden can.
Dresden does veils just fine.
He's not as good as the truly gifted, but he's a pretty competent generalist.
- Location
- Earth
Dresden can do Veils, though he isn't very good at them.
Harry can cast a veil, he is not good at it at this point, but it is one of those wizard basics he learned as an apprentice
Wait a second if you do not roll temp WP then what is the cost of spending it? Just vulnerability to things that specifically lower your Temp WP, presumably to zero?
The cost is not having more temp WP to spend later until you earn more. Like money.