Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

we can use this guy as a focus while we're here I think we can also surmise another focus from the stuff in his house like the trapped spirits we can ask for example where everyone associated with spirit binders of the kemmlerites are currently in this city. We can also use this opportunity to use the crown to learn everything this retired man knows about these guys. We can use the crown more than once while we're in here if we want right?
 
[x] use the crown on Matthews, query all of the names of members of Kemmler organization and their rank he knew about.
[x] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information

Use the crown on this guy to to avoid burning the question about the organization as a whole.
 
Offhand why do we care much about the names unless we can use the names as focuses for the crown? for finding said individuals also the names he knows probably aren't all of them and I doubt everyone is firmly part of the same group.
 
can't we just straight up ask where gorfel and his associates are now along with stuff like defenses we have a lot of crown options?
Unless something has gone very wrong, Gorfel is in custody of the White Council by now. He has probably already been executed.

I don't have anything against trying to learn who these people are and where they're at, but that's not the next clue we should be looking for. We have to be careful about how we ask questions, and a lot of information we may learn isn't going to be relevant to us.

As demonstrated by Gorfel having to pay a visit to Matthews for information when he was going to be operating in the Chicago area, they don't have any local supernatural assets to speak of. Probably means they don't have an extensive muggle network, either. It won't do us any good to learn that they're all based in Argentina or Germany, or wherever else Nazi warlocks hang out.

That also lends more credence to my assumption that the sniper was a local contractor rather than a member of the Society.

If we decide to sit down and start querying the Crown for more in-depth information on Matthews' former associates, this isn't the place to do it. That can be done back in Chicago behind friendly wards rather than out in the middle of nowhere with who knows what lurking in the background. We've already spent Essence quite liberally today. No need to drain ourselves dangerously when there is a not insignificant chance of combat in the near future.
 
Unless something has gone very wrong, Gorfel is in custody of the White Council by now. He has probably already been executed.

I don't have anything against trying to learn who these people are and where they're at, but that's not the next clue we should be looking for. We have to be careful about how we ask questions, and a lot of information we may learn isn't going to be relevant to us.

As demonstrated by Gorfel having to pay a visit to Matthews for information when he was going to be operating in the Chicago area, they don't have any local supernatural assets to speak of. Probably means they don't have an extensive muggle network, either. It won't do us any good to learn that they're all based in Argentina or Germany, or wherever else Nazi warlocks hang out.

That also lends more credence to my assumption that the sniper was a local contractor rather than a member of the Society.

If we decide to sit down and start querying the Crown for more in-depth information on Matthews' former associates, this isn't the place to do it. That can be done back in Chicago behind friendly wards rather than out in the middle of nowhere with who knows what lurking in the background. We've already spent Essence quite liberally today. No need to drain ourselves dangerously when there is a not insignificant chance of combat in the near future.
I'm aware gorfels probably been executed hes the less important part of the question though now that I think about it good chances it tells us what afterlife gorfels in so that'd be neat to know.

Still unsure what we want names for and we'll probably have some previously discovered name overlap nothing wrong with that. Just it'd be nice to know personal things about them like powers rather than rank or can we actually use the names for anything like the crown?
 
[X] Ask more questions
-[X] Ask Mathews to explain in general terms how his old compatriots preferred to operate. Any sort of standard procedures that he or they used to follow, or how he used to prefer to solve problems when he ran with them.


I don't want to trigger his oath, but I'm hoping some insight into how they think will help us get a better idea of what they're doing and how they'll react later on.

His old information isn't directly useful, so I wouldn't qualify it as leading ruin to them, but these guys are old too so the mindset should still give us something to work with.
 
[x] use the crown on Matthews, query all of the names of members of Kemmler organization and their rank he knew about.
[x] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information

I don't completely like this plan since no ones told me what we'd use the names for its the one I want the most though.

I am against entering the Nevernever, we lack the spell to allow us to enter or leave at will. Nor have we done the work of setting up agents in the Nevernever.
Being honest even once essence 5 going into the nevernever isn't completely risk free though I'll be far far far more confident then. The nevernever holds many many many things after all some in layers so deep it may as well not exist of course plenty of closer layers and layers we would want to go in which are dangerous though also its hard to travel the nevernever at least until we have powers for that. Not that I'm saying we shouldn't ever go in the nevernever even far before essence 5 its a place often of last resort even for many wizards if they don't have safe routes for a reason though. Given there are also basically infinite safe routes on top of the infinite dangerous ones and many things in between.
 
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For further investigations. Like, Cowl's identity is unknown in canon. Learning it and other identities of Kemmler's disciples would be a great boon for white hats. It would also upset a great number of plans.
sad it would end up non canon but yeah that makes some sense also we're already in au territory so its fine. Though honestly the question we used on gorfel probably should have netted us more names. But, being honest some names are just that names they won't actually help us find them or fight them in any way unless we can use the names as a focus for the crown.
 
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Skimmed it and mostly looked at the passives, my bad.

I suppose we need this at some point if we plan on hanging out with Dresden long term. Though I think in the immediate term we'd be better off trading TLF and DPE for Anonymity Through Propriety. Environmental damage and social boosts against some monsters are nice, but the ability to stroll through a police department, the mayor's office, and the offices of various valuable publicly traded corporations and place cyber devils pretty much wherever we like is very tempting at this stage in Molly's development.
I dont think I agree. Given the profusion of vampires, ghosts and dark fae in the setting, we are going to run into a lot more situations where the social buff from DPE will matter for gathering intelligence or just avoiding unnecessary fights.
And TLF makes things like choking from smoke in a burning building a non-issue.

If we can fly, we can actually break into said buildings from the roof and wander around at night at will.
Or frankly, we can bluff and talk our way in through the front door.
Manipulation + Subterfuge, then pump an Excellency.


These are some quite good points so let me address them, first off it is worth recalling how confused Dresden was by Mouse, it took him quite a while to even realize even the general sense of that Mouse was and even so he kept being surprised by his abilities. One can argue that cyber devils are a lot more common and a lot more likely to make trouble for a wizard than foo dog scions so Ebenezer would have taught him about them. But we also have to keep in mind that Ebenezer had according to the timeline three years to teach Harry between the ages of 16 and 19. Three years in which to teach this volatile teenager who had already broken the Laws how and why to use magic so he does not end up dead. One can well imagine the particulars of tech-possessing demons being pushed to the back of the line, at least the details of where they come from.

Now you are right Harry was not surprised by the notion of cyber devils, but well, he has four occult and for him details about the Yama Kings and the nature of the Wicked City would be the fifth dot.
Fair enough.

Its worth noting that Harry is often used as the audience surrogate for info dumps, so he's often portrayed as ignorant of things that he should by all rights have had drilled into his head by his teachers or by Bob.
So there's that.

I mean, thats the only reason for things like being suprised by Fidelacchius and Esperacchius in Dead Beat after having met and worked with Amoracchius and its wielder several books before.


You know, as another potential money-making scheme to add to the pile…
1)Most wizards live outside the US. Shipping costs are nontrivial.

2)They would have to be able to trust that we left nothing behind that can later be used as a tracker or an arcane focus to guide magic in on them.Or even a delayed activation carbomb.
We dont have that sort of reputation; those who do, like the svartalfar, have a track record.

3)They would also have to be sure that whatever means of shipping that stuff is secure, and noone else can slip stuff into it between our workshop and delivery. Like a car bomb.
Which is a significant issue in and of itself.

Its a nice idea, but I dont expect it to be feasible.
Wizards are paranoid enough in the normal run of things, let alone five years into the Vampire War.

Wanted to add my two cents with a new idea. Since we are dealing with nazis, and in general later, recovering lost art could be a profitable and respectable enterprise. With paintings alone there are bounties in the millions. And there's more than paintings out there. It could be both a source of profit, and of experience. Fun expeditions, busting international mafias and looting nazi archives.
Meh. Its just art. Might be my bias, but original art isnt that interesting.

Futhermore, while some of these are lying forgotten in one spot or the other?
A lot of these things are in private collections of very rich, unscrupulous people, behind shitloads of security. And we dont have the Larceny or charms to break in and out undetected; rejiggering for it is a nontrivial expense.

If there is a plot relevant item? Yes. If we stumble across some yes.
But I dont really expect Molly to do an Indiana Jones for the hell of it.
Unless something has gone very wrong, Gorfel is in custody of the White Council by now. He has probably already been executed.

I don't have anything against trying to learn who these people are and where they're at, but that's not the next clue we should be looking for. We have to be careful about how we ask questions, and a lot of information we may learn isn't going to be relevant to us.

As demonstrated by Gorfel having to pay a visit to Matthews for information when he was going to be operating in the Chicago area, they don't have any local supernatural assets to speak of. Probably means they don't have an extensive muggle network, either. It won't do us any good to learn that they're all based in Argentina or Germany, or wherever else Nazi warlocks hang out.

That also lends more credence to my assumption that the sniper was a local contractor rather than a member of the Society.


If we decide to sit down and start querying the Crown for more in-depth information on Matthews' former associates, this isn't the place to do it. That can be done back in Chicago behind friendly wards rather than out in the middle of nowhere with who knows what lurking in the background. We've already spent Essence quite liberally today. No need to drain ourselves dangerously when there is a not insignificant chance of combat in the near future.
Point of order:
Gorfel might have had no local supernatural assets. Especially if this was an off the books job for himself, or just a personal project on his own initiative, which is possible. That does not mean that the Thule Society does not have corporate assets in Chicago, or that other Thule Society agents dont .

Remember the ongoing internal power struggle between the Old Guard and The New Men.
I doubt they share unless absolutely necessary, any more than Grevane, Cowl and the Capriocorpus shared resources during the events of Dead Beat.

I am also pretty sure that sniper was not just some local contractor either. There's no DoorDash for assassinations; no freelance hitman is ready to take a sniper contract at less than an hour's notice on a Sunday afternoon in summer. Epecially not outside the home of a hard target like Dresden, who does have a reputation in the local underworld.

Not to mention that you have to have prescouted the location in order to find places with good firing angles.
And that you also have to be a good sniper.
There's a reason most known shootings are close range.

You only get that kind of response time and performance from an employee, and a dedicated one.



Commentary on the update later.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Do we remember how many months ago Ace the Nazi mook said he was put in hospital, and when Gorfels fixed him?
And what can Clippy tell us about when his accident took place from news reports? Vehicular road accident with two fatalities and one crippling certainly made the news, especially in the context of a police chase.

Im asking because it gives us a timeframe for when Gorfels became interested in Chicago.
 
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@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Do we remember how many months ago Ace the Nazi mook said he was put in hospital, and when Gorfels fixed him?
And what can Clippy tell us about when his accident took place from news reports? Vehicular road accident with two fatalities and one crippling certainly made the news, especially in the context of a police chase.

Im asking because it gives us a timeframe for when Gorfels became interested in Chicago.

The accident took place in December of last year and the and Gorfel showed up to fix Ace in January.
 
"You could, you never met him," Matthews shakes his head. "He was obsessed with immortality, the actual magical sort yes, but also legacy should the first fail, that's why he penned the Word and arranged for it to be copied and sent off far and wide, it is why he took apprentices. I heard him say once that only in being forgotten can oblivion be found."

Huh.

Given that the Oblivion War is a thing, I wonder if this is a lot more significant than Matthews realizes.
 
If we're going to do that, we should write in a specific question so that we can be specific with the link we use.

Kemmler's sore loser brigade could be a recurring problem, so I'd like to save questions that ping off the whole group if we can.

Maybe something like asking for the names of everyone who's ever worked with this guy as a practitioner?
Identities of everyone who ever was Kemmler's disciple is a pretty specific question. I feel that we are edging close to "never using a valuable resource for fearing wasting it". "Done is better than perfect" and "perfect is the enemy of good enough" are sayings for a reason. Yes, we'll be out of the question for Kemmler's apprentices, possibly. But it will still give us OCP actionable intelligence. One that could stop a legitimate worldwide threat at that (Cowl).
 
Identities of everyone who ever was Kemmler's disciple is a pretty specific question. I feel that we are edging close to "never using a valuable resource for fearing wasting it". "Done is better than perfect" and "perfect is the enemy of good enough" are sayings for a reason. Yes, we'll be out of the question for Kemmler's apprentices, possibly. But it will still give us OCP actionable intelligence. One that could stop a legitimate worldwide threat at that (Cowl).
note two things cowl actually says he disdains kemmler and that he wasn't his disciple good chance he was telling the truth. Honestly if cowl really is a white council member he might of helped murder kemmler.
 
note two things cowl actually says he disdains kemmler and that he wasn't his disciple good chance he was telling the truth. Honestly if cowl really is a white council member he might of helped murder kemmler.
Hmm, ok. Even without Cowl, rooting out every Kemmlerite is a very worthwhile thing to do. And this question paves the road to other questions about other things with other foci.
 
The accident took place in December of last year and the and Gorfel showed up to fix Ace in January.
Thank you.

January is 4 months after the Darkhallow in October last year, and 6 months before July.
So we're looking at a six month window when Gorfel raised a personal goon squad in Chicago, given that Ace claimed, truly or falsely, that the sidewalk was his first mission.

Which would also correlate to a window when Marcone would have come into possession of demonhunter bones and gotten into negotiations about selling them on.


VOTE
[X] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information

People know that we went to Old Man Mathew's place.
If we move on from there to an alternative location, there's no guarantee anyone can follow the trail. This would also embolden any opposition looking to remove Dresden or us without attribution.

Thats just unwise.

Especially since we know its potentially in Gorfels skillset to have bound ghosts/spirits to guard that Way point and kill anyone who came sniffing along his trail. Or just to report to his colleagues.
And Molly cant see ghosts yet.

Go home, use this information, and if its necessary, come back loaded for ghost and/or fae.

Remember. We're out in a rural county two hours from Chicago.
We cannot fly, we do not have VLE or Windborn Stride or Transcendent Lord of Flies, and we have ppl with us to keep alive.
We do have a shintai to break out in extremis, but thats, I have been told, an extremis thing. Lets not waste it.
 
Identities of everyone who ever was Kemmler's disciple is a pretty specific question. I feel that we are edging close to "never using a valuable resource for fearing wasting it". "Done is better than perfect" and "perfect is the enemy of good enough" are sayings for a reason. Yes, we'll be out of the question for Kemmler's apprentices, possibly. But it will still give us OCP actionable intelligence. One that could stop a legitimate worldwide threat at that (Cowl).
Not time-sensitive right now.
We can literally ask this question when sitting on a couch drinking a cup of cocoa, now that we've met Mathews. And in the meantime, there might be other things worth noting.

Wait, and hold.
 
Hmm, ok. Even without Cowl, rooting out every Kemmlerite is a very worthwhile thing to do. And this question paves the road to other questions about other things with other foci.
no disagreement I just wanted to mention it not sure why he'd lie honestly its not like he was trying to convince harry hes a good guy or something.
 
I don't think a list of Kemmlerites is useful right now.

We already have a list of Thule members and we have barely started on hunting those down.
Don't start a second kill-list before finishing the first!

[x] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information
 
I don't think a list of Kemmlerites is useful right now.

We already have a list of Thule members and we have barely started on hunting those down.
Don't start a second kill-list before finishing the first!

[x] Return to Chicago to do more research with this new information
I don't feel like returning to this guy and we have a crown and our essence is going to regenerate I want to actually use the crown before leaving. its a thing we can use often and we have ways to regenerate our essence we should use it.
 
Not time-sensitive right now.
We can literally ask this question when sitting on a couch drinking a cup of cocoa, now that we've met Mathews. And in the meantime, there might be other things worth noting.

Wait, and hold.
Quiet reminder that we need to be looking at a thing to ask a question about it. However…

[X] Ask Harry if there's any particular reason why you shouldn't use the jailhouse as a focus for your Crown to ask where the other endpoint of the Way that Gorfel took is, or some similarly useful question we wouldn't have to go through the Fey for an answer for.
 
Identities of everyone who ever was Kemmler's disciple is a pretty specific question. I feel that we are edging close to "never using a valuable resource for fearing wasting it". "Done is better than perfect" and "perfect is the enemy of good enough" are sayings for a reason. Yes, we'll be out of the question for Kemmler's apprentices, possibly. But it will still give us OCP actionable intelligence. One that could stop a legitimate worldwide threat at that (Cowl).
Would rather burn the question of just everybody that his guy knows was disciple. Burn the question about him, while keeping the Kemmler question open. From that list we can leapfrog to other people to track down the operations.
 
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