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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
[X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
-[x] Molly holds her little sister by her side as the church bell rings, shifting her feet to draw on her full height, and staring Mrs Evans in the eye, smiling like a shark... or a dragon. "Mrs Evans, I'm 'certain' our mother would be as happy to hear your comments as she was the last time." Molly briefly considered bringing up the Lord's comment about not casting the first stone, but remembered her father's explanation of the Third Commandment, so tried a different track. "And I'm certain my father will want to be aware of your comments as well."
 
Lots of choices again.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Aug 12, 2022 at 7:53 PM, finished with 60 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
    -[x] Molly holds her little sister by her side as the church bell rings, shifting her feet to draw on her full height, and staring Mrs Evans in the eye, smiling like a shark... or a dragon. "Mrs Evans, I'm 'certain' our mother would be as happy to hear your comments as she was the last time." Molly briefly considered bringing up the Lord's comment about not casting the first stone, but remembered her father's explanation of the Third Commandment, so tried a different track. "And I'm certain my father will want to be aware of your comments as well."
    [x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
    -[x] use excellency
    -[x] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
    -[x] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
    -[x] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
    [x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
    [x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
    -[X] It would be easy to frighten her. To let the chill of hell into your breath, coloring your words and actions. To look and see her most guarded, shameful secret laid bare and use it against her. You do not. Your power has better applications. You are capable of subtler, gentler things. You know that the mightiest weapon of her God is, at its core, love - you have felt it against your blade and soul. It is that knowledge you try to instill in her through your words.
    [X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
    -[X] Stunt: "Maybe sanctimonious shrews should keep their opinions to themselves? That seems less likely to inspire violent teens to...act out, don't you think?"
    [X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
    -[X] Stunt: "You think a story about slaying vampires is too violent? There's nothing wrong with smiting the wicked to preserve the innocent. If you really think violence should be avoided altogether... You sure don't act like you're trying to avoid it."
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Azais said:
[X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
-[x] Molly holds her little sister by her side as the church bell rings, shifting her feet to draw on her full height, and staring Mrs Evans in the eye, smiling like a shark... or a dragon. "Mrs Evans, I'm 'certain' our mother would be as happy to hear your comments as she was the last time." Molly briefly considered bringing up the Lord's comment about not casting the first stone, but remembered her father's explanation of the Third Commandment, so tried a different track. "And I'm certain my father will want to be aware of your comments as well."
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I kinda feel this is gonna make us have to deal with her again when it loops back to us.
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
the DragonBard said:
Really doesn't seem like it's IC for Molly.
Michael, yeah, but not Molly.

We're just basically saying 'back off or you'll have to deal with Charity again.'
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I mean fair and vote for whatcha want could just loop back to her being a problem later though. Admittedly not an important one just one where an update has a vote option directed towards her rather than directed towards something else.
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
if our charisma and empathy weren't fairly high plus the excellency I'd imagine she'd interrupt us mid speech you know as people do.
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
the DragonBard said:
Really doesn't seem like it's IC for Molly.
Michael, yeah, but not Molly.
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That's fair to an extent, but I don't totally agree. Molly might not have True Faith as an ability on her character sheet, but she does have earnest faith. Despite her many problems with authority, which really says something about what it means to her.

The other tricky subject is the balance of classic teenage obliviousness vs. the sort of fine tuned sense for emotional and mental states that Molly awoke to as a wizard. That speaks to a desire to see and understand other people in the most direct possible way.

While she's lost that sense for the moment, she does have three dots in empathy in addition to taking it as a key skill. She's not quite mr. Rogers, but she's still up there in terms of people you're likely to encounter in the day to day life of a mortal.

So empathizing with people, to manipulate but also to experience their perspective as they do, should be in her wheelhouse to an extent.

This seems like a good balance between old blind spots and new insights in line with her general beliefs.

The tone could probably use some work, but I think it's a decent fit for the context.

firefrog600 said:
if our charisma and empathy weren't fairly high plus the excellency I'd imagine she'd interrupt us mid speech you know as people do.
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My bet is that if she tries it'll be at the break point where Molly sighs. Thing is, the part immediately after that is applicable to any response she can give, with the possible exception of complete contrition. Even then it still mostly works.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That's fair to an extent, but I don't totally agree. Molly might not have True Faith as an ability on her character sheet, but she does have earnest faith. Despite her many problems with authority, which really says something about what it means to her.

The other tricky subject is the balance of classic teenage obliviousness vs. the sort of fine tuned sense for emotional and mental states that Molly awoke to as a wizard. That speaks to a desire to see and understand other people in the most direct possible way.

While she's lost that sense for the moment, she does have three dots in empathy in addition to taking it as a key skill. She's not quite mr. Rogers, but she's still up there in terms of people you're likely to encounter in the day to day life of a mortal.

So empathizing with people, to manipulate but also to experience their perspective as they do, should be in her wheelhouse to an extent.

This seems like a good balance between old blind spots and new insights in line with her general beliefs.

The tone could probably use some work, but I think it's a decent fit for the context.


My bet is that if she tries it'll be at the break point where Molly sighs. Thing is, the part immediately after that is applicable to any response she can give, with the possible exception of complete contrition. Even then it still mostly works.
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in fairness 6 combined dots and excellency we should have the center of attention until we fully finish it near supernatural levels of speech. Like you wait and watch when looking at that you don't interrupt.

Edit: Our mom while mostly mundane her will is not shes faced down the supernatural and went into what may as well of been hell for her child and will not back down.
 
[X] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[X] use excellency
-[X] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[X] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[X] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"

Its fair.
 
[x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[x] use excellency
-[x] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[x] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[x] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
 
BronzeTongue said:
-[] "Has this ever helped?"
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Amused: It has not ever helped. But it has never been about helping. It has been about power, and the excising of that power via the cudgel of dishonestly associating contextual violence with immorality.

But it pleases me to see the bullshit laid bare.

Mrs Evans will not become a better person from this, because this interaction did not start from a compassionate foundation.

She will bluster, and will either retreat into sophistry, or cut to the case, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

---

I know what I am calling her via the implication of the italicised part above[1]. I am doing so knowingly, as an adult who interacts with sophists frequently.

[1]Authoritarian, to a significant degree.

[X] BronzeTounge
 
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Double post - so as to be explicit via the timing of my message:

@BronzeTongue I like your vote. I am voting for it. But Mrs Evans will not be reached by this. Because this not addressing the core of why she said what she said.

It's a good write in, and (imo) better for Molly and her sibs than bothering to try and help Mrs Evans not be a shitty human.

To reach an adult, to teach them values arising from a foundation of compassion... those who's neural net has become more ridged with age is a very difficult thing. Where is the line between communication and literal mind control?
----
My point is. I like your write in. It is sincere and have a preference for sincerity.

But I am voting for it for Matthew, and a lesser extent Molly.
Mrs Evans will not become more than she is from this.

(Probably. Unless the dicegods shine upon us to an unreasonable degree.)
 
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Yeah, its nice but its pretty much... not really going to change her ways. Or do anything but temporarily annoy or placate her.

Doubt intimidation would drag real change out of her either.

Thats a good point about it being for Matthews benefit though, not this hags.
 
I really don't know why people want to go soft on her, the other option isn't really hard at all and this lady had insulted both Molly and her brother, this is not even the first time and after receiving several warnings from Charity. I don't see IC why a teenager, when she clearly feels angry, is right and a suitable target would not use Intimidation.

I hope this doesn't signal a possible trend of votes from White Knights that SV, from experience, often likes to do in quests.
 
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Azais said:
I really don't know why people want to go soft on her, the other option isn't really hard at all and this lady had insulted both Molly and her brother, this not even the first time and after receiving several warnings from Charity. I don't see CI why a teenager, when she clearly feels angry, is right and a suitable target would not bully her.

I hope this doesn't signal a possible trend of votes from White Knights that SV, from experience, often likes to do in quests.
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Attempt at reassurance:
I for one will not be attempting to have Molly act as some idealised Saint.

There are limits and there are principles and there is----

People have inherent value
Everyone
A lot of egalitarian-leaning people with various forms of privilege (appear to me to) run the risk of diminishing the value of their own desires down to absolute nothing when confronted with the suffering of those trapped in significantly worse circumstances.

I'll not vote to be mean just because someone is being a dickhead.
I will not vote to allow assholes directly in front of Molly to blithely get away with power tripping or cruelty unless there is a greater circumstantial pressure (i.e. greater positive outcomes, generally) to do so. I don't want Molly to be that sort of person.


to quote a much wiser man than I: "Good is not nice"
 
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[x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[x] use excellency
-[x] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[x] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[x] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
BronzeTongue said:
That's an interesting direction to take, but your stunt doesn't really read that way to me; it just cuts off too soon.

The current version reads more like if someone insulted your taste in food and you replied by talking about the importance of getting enough cardio on a daily basis.

There's a place it could connect, but you didn't actually go there.
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Yeah, I ran out of steam there. The idea initially was pretty much what you went with, albeit with fewer bible quotations. I just couldn't do an actual speech, so I stopped at the idea behind what to say.
 
I don't think she's worth that.
I kinda really want to go for simplest version of intimidation.

[X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
-[X] (Excellency) Get up close in her personal space, look down on her and tell her that she should propably stop talking to or about you and your siblings or someday she might learn that TV-shows are far from the most violent things in this world.

There. Simple and easy and we put enough Dice into it that I'm optimistic it will last a while.
Trying to teach her something about God is nearly pointless, making her too afraid to talk back at us should be possible.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I don't think she's worth that.
I kinda really want to go for simplest version of intimidation.

[X] With subtle threats (Manipulation+Intimidation)
-[X] (Excellency) Get up close in her personal space, look down on her and tell her that she should propably stop talking to or about you and your siblings or someday she might learn that TV-shows are far from the most violent things in this world.

There. Simple and easy and we put enough Dice into it that I'm optimistic it will last a while.
Trying to teach her something about God is [removed error] pointless
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People like Mrs Evans ain't about compassion, or being good or any virtute. They're about fear[1] and control[1] and subjugation[1]
But she is of lesser importance here. She's worth fuck all. The important people here are Leech and Molly. Who Molly is and the lessons she teaches Leech.

And I for one see value in explicitly teaching teenagers that authoritarians are like... a thing, and that their opinions should be disregarded. There is an opportunity to do good here for Leech, and it lies in how Molly tells Mrs Evans to go fuck herself with the wide end of a rusty rake.[2]

[1] We all see people like that, their mindset.
[2] This is hyperbole. Such activity would put additional strain on the local healthcare system for no good purpose.

Edit: My point is, for Leech's sake, I think scaring the shitgibbon authoritarian is not the best move. Words of compassion, with a contextual explanation to Leech of why that approach was taken looks to be optimal in my view.

Edit2: Fuck I'm drunk and I'm in "do what I fuckin' want" mood:
[x] Diplomatically (Charisma+Empathy)
-[x] use excellency
-[x] "Has this ever helped?" Molly asked as she put a hand on Leech's shoulder. "If the goal is to convince people of something snide barbs aren't the way to go about it. If the goal is simply to make yourself feel better then you have more important business to deal with than ours."
-[x] Taking a deep breath, Molly sighs. "To be honest, you annoy me; but maybe this is a lesson for both of us. 'For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God' specifically."
-[x] "How about we both try to judge a little less instead of sniping at each other in front of a church?"
--[X] Go even further, and quietly ask the priest if you can deliver a sermon, or at least take up the sermon segment to give a reading to the congregation about the value of opposing authoritarianism.
--[X] use excellency (up to two essence) to help guide your words: Themes of understanding and acceptance of others, thoughtfulness and understanding one one's self: seek to understand why one believes what one believes, and the value and virtue and importance of opposing the efforts of the small minded and those who seek to control others.
 
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