Remove ads

Renascence: A Homura Quest

Honorifics or Western-style Titles? I've used both before, which is bothersomely inconsistent

  • Japanese Honorifics (-san, -sama, -dono, -chan, -kun, -senpai, etcetera)

    Votes: 12 33.3%

  • Western Titles (Mister, Miss, job titles, Lord, Lady, etcetera)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Use whichever works better for a given sentence.

    Votes: 24 66.7%
  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
Reader mode
After trying to revise my plan, Spi.Guyver's plan is pretty close to what it turned into. We'll want to eventually start ramping up the Ambition a bit, but with our Development still low, Ambition 5 is probably fine. I dropped out the Akemi Madness from the Time Stop Spell Creation, as well as swapping it to Researching A Theoretical Spell. I left it on the Big Ben investigation.

[X] Plan When In London...
[Investigative Actions: 2]
-[X] Detective Agency (0/100)
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Galahad
--[X] with Kyouko
[Social Actions: 1]
-[X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
[Home Actions: 2]
-[X] Investigation: Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
--[X] with Kyouko
[Mission Actions: 1]
-[X] Meet with King Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
[Creative Actions: 1]
-[X] Research A Theoretical Spell
--[X] A more efficient Time Stop
--[X] Ambition 5
[Training Actions: 1]
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Clocksmithing
[Sleep Actions: 4]
-[X] Investigation: Big Ben
--[X] with Kyouko
---[X] using Akemi Madness
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Development
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
 
My thinking on having Akemi Madness for the spell creation is that it's essentially a sanity drop, which is more useful for creating spells. Even if the Sanity drop from Bloodheat doesn't hit in the same action that triggers it, when Homura is using Akemi Madness her actions are similar to have dropped a few points in Sanity at minimum. Add this to the fact that we're trying to create a spell for manipulating time, which is associated with clocks, and I figured it had good synergy with the Creative Action. And well, it's good thematically if nothing else. I also wanted at least a second Akemi Madness action and didn't want to do so while exploring, investigating or socialling as that could potentially be counter productive.

Now that I think about it, I'm of two minds when it comes to using Akemi Madness for Big Ben. On the one hand it makes sense since CLOCKS! On the other, having Homura run around out in the open under Akemi Madness feels like a less than stellar idea.

EDIT: Actually, while thinking things over, @Higure, can I get some clarification on the Bloodheat mechanics? Does Bloodheat apply it's Sanity penalty to Sanity at the end of the turn? If so, how do you calculate the -5 to Bloodheat for every action not taken while in Akemi Madness? Is that actually every Turn and you hadn't yet solidified the terminology? If it is indeed every Action and not every Turn, how do you determine which Actions are after the uses of Akemi Madness? Using my vote as an example I presume both Sleep Actions are after the last application of Akemi Madness, while the bulk of the exploring and investigating is before.

Then there's also the option that Bloodheat applies it's penalty at the end of each Action. If that's the case, does Bloodheat apply it's penalty for every Action in which the gauge for Bloodheat has anything in it or only the Actions which activated Akemi Madness? Does the Bloodheat reduction apply before or after the Sanity penalty?

This actually effects how I end up voting as I need to keep all this in mind. Presuming all changes are applied at the end of the turn in an order of accumulated Bloodhead, Sanity changes, and finally lowering Bloodheat, my vote has Akemi Madness giving Homura -40 Sanity, which is then neutralized by Sleep Actions. If the end of Turn order of application is all changes to Bloodheat, then Sanity changes, Sanity will go up by 10, presuming only two Actions are considered having been spent after Akemi Madness. If the penalty applies at every Action, then Homura can be getting hit by up to 95 Sanity loss after all changes are considered if it doesn't do anything while Sleeping and while if it does apply we lose 150 Sanity.

My math works like this for per Action penalties:
----Creative Action Activates Akemi Madness, Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20, Sanity -20
----Training Action Activates Akemi Madness, Bloodheat 20 + 20 = 40, Sanity -20 - 40 = -60
----Sleep Action Does not Activate Akemi Madness, Sanity -60 - 40 = -100, Bloodheat 40 - 5 = 35
----Sleep Action Does not Activate Akemi Madness, Sanity -100 - 35 = -135, Bloodheat 35 - 5 = 30
----If impossible for -Sanity while sleeping: Sanity -135 + 20 = -115, Sanity -115 + 20 = -95
----If Bloodheat causes Sanity loss while Sleeping: Sanity -135 - 30 = -165 + 20 = -145, Bloodheat 30 - 5 = 25, Sanity -145 - 25 = -170 + 20 = -150

It works like this for end of Turn penalties, Bloodheat Reduction applied after Sanity Modifying:
------Akemi Madness activation 2. Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20 + 20 = 40
------Sleep Actions 2: Modifier 0 + 20 = 20 + 20 = 40
------ Final Sanity Modifier: 0 - 40 = -40 + 40 = 0

If it applies at End of Turn but only on final Bloodheat total from all events:
-----Akemi Madness Activates: Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20
-----Akemi Madness Activates: Bloodheat 20 + 20 = 40
-----No Akemi Madness: Bloodheat 40 - 5 = 35
-----No Akemi Madness: Bloodheat 35 - 5 = 30
-----Sleep Modifier: 0 + 20 = 20
-----Sleep Modifier: 20 + 20 = 40
-----Final Sanity Modifier: 0 - 30 = -30 + 40 = 10
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan When In London...
[Investigative Actions: 2]
-[X] Detective Agency (0/100)
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Galahad
--[X] with Kyouko
[Social Actions: 1]
-[X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
[Home Actions: 2]
-[X] Investigation: Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
--[X] with Kyouko
[Mission Actions: 1]
-[X] Meet with King Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
[Creative Actions: 1]
-[X] Research A Theoretical Spell
--[X] A more efficient Time Stop
--[X] Ambition 5
[Training Actions: 1]
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Clocksmithing
[Sleep Actions: 4]
-[X] Investigation: Big Ben
--[X] with Kyouko
---[X] using Akemi Madness
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Development
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
 
Spi.Guyver said:
My thinking on having Akemi Madness for the spell creation is that it's essentially a sanity drop, which is more useful for creating spells. Even if the Sanity drop from Bloodheat doesn't hit in the same action that triggers it, when Homura is using Akemi Madness her actions are similar to have dropped a few points in Sanity at minimum. Add this to the fact that we're trying to create a spell for manipulating time, which is associated with clocks, and I figured it had good synergy with the Creative Action. And well, it's good thematically if nothing else. I also wanted at least a second Akemi Madness action and didn't want to do so while exploring, investigating or socialling as that could potentially be counter productive.

Now that I think about it, I'm of two minds when it comes to using Akemi Madness for Big Ben. On the one hand it makes sense since CLOCKS! On the other, having Homura run around out in the open under Akemi Madness feels like a less than stellar idea.

EDIT: Actually, while thinking things over, @Higure, can I get some clarification on the Bloodheat mechanics? Does Bloodheat apply it's Sanity penalty to Sanity at the end of the turn? If so, how do you calculate the -5 to Bloodheat for every action not taken while in Akemi Madness? Is that actually every Turn and you hadn't yet solidified the terminology? If it is indeed every Action and not every Turn, how do you determine which Actions are after the uses of Akemi Madness? Using my vote as an example I presume both Sleep Actions are after the last application of Akemi Madness, while the bulk of the exploring and investigating is before.

Then there's also the option that Bloodheat applies it's penalty at the end of each Action. If that's the case, does Bloodheat apply it's penalty for every Action in which the gauge for Bloodheat has anything in it or only the Actions which activated Akemi Madness? Does the Bloodheat reduction apply before or after the Sanity penalty?

This actually effects how I end up voting as I need to keep all this in mind. Presuming all changes are applied at the end of the turn in an order of accumulated Bloodhead, Sanity changes, and finally lowering Bloodheat, my vote has Akemi Madness giving Homura -40 Sanity, which is then neutralized by Sleep Actions. If the end of Turn order of application is all changes to Bloodheat, then Sanity changes, Sanity will go up by 10, presuming only two Actions are considered having been spent after Akemi Madness. If the penalty applies at every Action, then Homura can be getting hit by up to 95 Sanity loss after all changes are considered if it doesn't do anything while Sleeping and while if it does apply we lose 150 Sanity.

My math works like this for per Action penalties:
----Creative Action Activates Akemi Madness, Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20, Sanity -20
----Training Action Activates Akemi Madness, Bloodheat 20 + 20 = 40, Sanity -20 - 40 = -60
----Sleep Action Does not Activate Akemi Madness, Sanity -60 - 40 = -100, Bloodheat 40 - 5 = 35
----Sleep Action Does not Activate Akemi Madness, Sanity -100 - 35 = -135, Bloodheat 35 - 5 = 30
----If impossible for -Sanity while sleeping: Sanity -135 + 20 = -115, Sanity -115 + 20 = -95
----If Bloodheat causes Sanity loss while Sleeping: Sanity -135 - 30 = -165 + 20 = -145, Bloodheat 30 - 5 = 25, Sanity -145 - 25 = -170 + 20 = -150

It works like this for end of Turn penalties, Bloodheat Reduction applied after Sanity Modifying:
------Akemi Madness activation 2. Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20 + 20 = 40
------Sleep Actions 2: Modifier 0 + 20 = 20 + 20 = 40
------ Final Sanity Modifier: 0 - 40 = -40 + 40 = 0

If it applies at End of Turn but only on final Bloodheat total from all events:
-----Akemi Madness Activates: Bloodheat 0 + 20 = 20
-----Akemi Madness Activates: Bloodheat 20 + 20 = 40
-----No Akemi Madness: Bloodheat 40 - 5 = 35
-----No Akemi Madness: Bloodheat 35 - 5 = 30
-----Sleep Modifier: 0 + 20 = 20
-----Sleep Modifier: 20 + 20 = 40
-----Final Sanity Modifier: 0 - 30 = -30 + 40 = 10
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bloodheat's applied at end of Turn, followed by deductions (like all non-critical Sanity shifts). Bloodheat's an isolated pool applied as a Sanity penalty, though, so Sleep and other Sanity restoration methods don't interact with it.
 
Alright, so in the example of my own vote, would Bloodheat be applying a 40 Sanity penalty (two instances of it bringing it 40 at it's highest level) or a 30 Sanity penalty (that maximum 40 Bloodheat, minus the two Actions I have listed after it each applying -5 to Bloodheat)?

Also, while I am aware that Sleep is a separate modifier that does not interact with Bloodheat, it is the only other predictable modifier of Sanity I am currently aware of for trying to calculate final Sanity changes. It's inclusion in the calculations was a result of that.
 
Last edited:
Spi.Guyver said:
Alright, so in the example of my own vote, would Bloodheat be applying a 40 Sanity penalty (two instances of it bringing it 40 at it's highest level) or a 30 Sanity penalty (that maximum 40 Bloodheat, minus the two Actions I have listed after it each applying -5 to Bloodheat)?

Also, while I am aware that Sleep is a separate modifier that does not interact with Bloodheat, it is the only other predictable modifier of Sanity I am currently aware of for trying to calculate final Sanity changes. It's inclusion in the calculations was a result of that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, I see, I misunderstood. So, Actions are not in chronological sequence at all, so your vote would produce:

(2 Madness Actions * 20) = 40 - (10 Actions * 5) = -10. As Bloodheat's floor is 0, Bloodheat would still be 0 at turn end.

Ah, that's fair. Sanity is intended to be a fairly opaque stat, so I suppose Sleep's most of what you have to work with.
 
Ah. So for Bloodheat to have an impact on Sanity at all we need to use it for at least three actions. That bears some consideration for what I end up voting for... Might want to edit my post to include Akemi Madness while visiting Big Ben with Kyouko...
 
In other recent news, due to the diligent efforts in training Melee, Homura now has Melee at Rank 39. Arcana!Kyouko has Melee at Rank 40, meaning that the two aren't that far apart (on paper) in terms of Melee skill. However, due to Arcana!Kyouko's Spear Specialist trait, she effectively has a Melee Rank of 60 when using a spear; It's what she trained herself to fight with her entire Magical Girl career.

This leads into a different point though: I suspect that each Arcana Puella Magi will have some focus that, even if Homura can meet it on paper, gives them an advantage in some situation. I can't think of what Mami's specialty might be off the top of my head, though it could very well be something related to Puella Magi Development explicitly using her Ribbons. Sayaka most likely as the Sword Specialist trait or is most of the way there, and as such, it explains why she is apparently so much better at Melee than Homura; She has that, and possibly EMIYA teaching her, to put her well above the curve in terms of melee skill.

Finally... we've basically not used Arcana!Kyouko at all of late. While I can't recall who all knows about her presence, I do think that letting her work on Research or even other situations could be a valuable thing. Her Socialize is actually better than Homura's at 25, her baseline Magical Theory is significantly better at 20, her Development as well as 30. But most importantly of all: Her Puella Magi Magical Theory is at 50. Arcana!Kyouko is the best equipped personage we know of (other than maybe Oriko) for actually conducting rituals Workings. And this leads into a question.

@Higure , is it possible for Arcana!Kyouko to be Requested for help with Training? Or would that fall under requesting Kyouko proper, with Arcana!Kyouko giving mental pointers?
 
@catDreaming , are you willing to add a third Akemi Madness in somewhere? And maybe Kyouko for exploring Big Ben? For the Akemi Madness, I just want to slow our rising Sanity for the moment as if it gets too high it'll become harder for Homura to use magic, which is what she really needs for dealing with all this weirdness. It'll also open her up to possibilities with the various outside context problems like Nanoha, that Angel Witch that was fought at the movie theatre, Yuuko's shop and whatever the hell was up with Heracles and Sesshomaru.

For Kyouko it's two fold. On one hand when Homura's in CLOCKS! mode, she really needs someone to pull her away from it when the time comes. On another, I just like the interactions with Kyouko when Homura goes Akemi Madness on her.
 
catDreaming said:
@Higure , is it possible for Arcana!Kyouko to be Requested for help with Training? Or would that fall under requesting Kyouko proper, with Arcana!Kyouko giving mental pointers?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nope, Arcana Magi cannot provide training to each other--Homura just can't quite seem to grasp lessons from them, for some reason, and Kyouko likewise can't learn skills from Homura.
 
Spi.Guyver said:
@catDreaming , are you willing to add a third Akemi Madness in somewhere? And maybe Kyouko for exploring Big Ben? For the Akemi Madness, I just want to slow our rising Sanity for the moment as if it gets too high it'll become harder for Homura to use magic, which is what she really needs for dealing with all this weirdness. It'll also open her up to possibilities with the various outside context problems like Nanoha, that Angel Witch that was fought at the movie theatre, Yuuko's shop and whatever the hell was up with Heracles and Sesshomaru.

For Kyouko it's two fold. On one hand when Homura's in CLOCKS! mode, she really needs someone to pull her away from it when the time comes. On another, I just like the interactions with Kyouko when Homura goes Akemi Madness on her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can't honestly think of a third thing on my plan where Akemi Madness would actually do anything, aside from the Social Action with Kallen Stadtfield. I guess bumping it up to a 70% chance of success could be worth it. Kyouko is already Requested for the Big Ben investigation in my plan as well, as well as... well, a lot of things. Give me a few hours for a calculator to slave away at it, and we'll even know what the odds of Kyouko being ready for Social Link up are!

Edit: There's a 4.6% chance of putting Kyouko to the point where a Social action with her next turn is a guaranteed Link Up, based on my current plan. The chance is marginally higher if Akemi Madness is used on that Social Action next turn.

I also want to hold off a bit on it until we get whatever Clue or Breakthrough results from the Future Gadget Lab's Investigation (125 guaranteed Investigation progress is a guranteed numerical completion). Since Clues can be Missions, that's also another potential action to be taken upon our return to Mitakihara.

Higure said:
Nope, Arcana Magi cannot provide training to each other--Homura just can't quite seem to grasp lessons from them, for some reason, and Kyouko likewise can't learn skills from Homura.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is very good to know. As always, the insight is appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Huh. When I last checked your plan Kyouko wasn't in the Big Ben segment. Then the difference is I had Akemi Madness for attempting to create that new Time Stop. It feels appropriate cause clocks are associated with time, and on top of that Sanity is the enemy when it comes to trying to create magic. While Akemi Madness doesn't directly or immediately reduce Sanity, Homura's actions and thinking suggest she temporarily loses some points in Sanity while under the effects of Madness.

Also, currently we have something like +40 to Sanity coming from update, not counting any hidden bonuses or penalties we can't predict for, as the ten actions where Homura isn't using it completely remove any Bloodheat buildup, thus preventing the Madness from reducing Sanity. Her Sanity is already at 522 as of the last update, meaning we are starting to crawl towards the point where Homura is too reasonable to be able to effectively use Magic. I do not know what point it starts to actually effect the strength of her spells or her ability to produce new ones but more than 50% sane is more likely to cause those problems than less.

I would edit my own vote, but I do not believe people are likely to change the vote to it this late in the voting cycle, meaning I'm just casting a useless vote.
 
Votes locked. Expect an update this weekend.
Adhoc vote count started by catDreaming on Aug 2, 2022 at 11:39 PM, finished with 33 posts and 4 votes.
  • [X] Plan: When In London...
    -[X] Detective Agency (0/100)
    --[X] with Kyouko
    -[X] Galahad
    -[X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
    -[X] Investigation: Arthur
    -[X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
    -[X] Meet with King Arthur
    ---[X] using Akemi Madness
    --[X] Development
    -[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
    -[X] Research a Theoretical Spell
    --[X] A more efficient Time Stop
    --[X] Ambition 5
    -[X] Train A Skill
    --[X] Clocksmithing
    -[X] Investigation: Big Ben
    [X] Plan "Kyouko will hate us"
    [X] Plan Establishing Setting
    [X] Detective Agency (0/100)
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Galahad
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
    [X] Investigation: Arthur
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Meet with King Arthur
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Develop a Spell
    -[X] A more efficient Time Stop
    -[X] Ambition 5
    --[X] using Akemi Madness
    [X] Train a Skill
    -[X] Clocksmithing
    --[X] using Akemi Madness
    [X] Investigation: Big Ben
    -[X] with Kyouko
    [X] Train a Skill
    -[X] Development
    [X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
Click to expand...
 
Woops, forgot to revisit things. Well, the leading plan does seem fine, though maaaaybe using Akemi Madness while meeting King Arthur is asking for trouble. At least it'll be funny?
 
Macros said:
Woops, forgot to revisit things. Well, the leading plan does seem fine, though maaaaybe using Akemi Madness while meeting King Arthur is asking for trouble. At least it'll be funny?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The really funny thing is, when you go back and look at the actual vote itself, instead of using the vote tally, it's to meet Arthur with Kyouko not Akemi Madness. The Vote Tally moved Kyouko and Akemi Madness around a bit.

EDIT: For reference, here are said votes:
catDreaming said:
[X] Plan When In London...
[Investigative Actions: 2]
-[X] Detective Agency (0/100)
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Galahad
--[X] with Kyouko
[Social Actions: 1]
-[X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
[Home Actions: 2]
-[X] Investigation: Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
--[X] with Kyouko
[Mission Actions: 1]
-[X] Meet with King Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
[Creative Actions: 1]
-[X] Research A Theoretical Spell
--[X] A more efficient Time Stop
--[X] Ambition 5
[Training Actions: 1]
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Clocksmithing
[Sleep Actions: 4]
-[X] Investigation: Big Ben
--[X] with Kyouko
---[X] using Akemi Madness
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Development
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Muroxxas said:
[X] Plan When In London...
[Investigative Actions: 2]
-[X] Detective Agency (0/100)
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Galahad
--[X] with Kyouko
[Social Actions: 1]
-[X] Kallen Stadtfield (43/100)
[Home Actions: 2]
-[X] Investigation: Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
-[X] Investigation: Buckingham Palace
--[X] with Kyouko
[Mission Actions: 1]
-[X] Meet with King Arthur
--[X] with Kyouko
[Creative Actions: 1]
-[X] Research A Theoretical Spell
--[X] A more efficient Time Stop
--[X] Ambition 5
[Training Actions: 1]
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Clocksmithing
[Sleep Actions: 4]
-[X] Investigation: Big Ben
--[X] with Kyouko
---[X] using Akemi Madness
-[X] Train a Skill
--[X] Development
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
-[X] Sleep (Gain 20 + Modifiers Sanity)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
One way to check and make sure. @Higure, are you aware the tally program moved some stuff of the vote around, resulting in weird actions such as meeting King Arthur using Akemi Madness and doing something involving Development?
 
Thank @Macros for pointing out the meeting King Arthur using Akemi Madness part. I never would have noticed if not for that because I remembered that much of the original vote at least and simply skimmed the vote summary before he said so.
 
Seems like we dodged a bullet. Or the best character interaction in the whole quest. Possibly both. :V
 
I mean, there is a very real chance that we can do that tommorow in-quest. We just won't have the impact of the first meeting being done that way.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top