- Location
- washington
thaaaats not all that hard for lesser things. Also what qualifies as beat?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
The Surrender Oaths were given freely. Well, after a military defeat, but still given freely.
And even with them, malicious compliance was very much an option.
Hence sorcerers were circumspect when dealing with the more powerful entities, Oaths or not.
There are charms that allow you enslave some dark entities, and other charms that make you supernaturally persuasive.
Most of them have a limited time duration, and it doesnt change the essential nature of the entity; its not "good", just following the orders its been given.
And like I said, malicious compliance. And enemies breaking your control magic.
There is a reason why everyone is so big on willing confederates; reduces the chances of a backstab when you slip up or mispeak.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Continue the account of the day for one or more of your siblings
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.
If you manage to go full on Devil Tiger and I am not even guaranteeing that you can, but if you somehow manage it then enslaving Dark capital P powers to your indefatigable will would be in the cards. Mind at that point 'good' will be hard to gleam from the vast distance of your dread gaze.
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View: https://youtu.be/HZ7wB4rm5Hw
Yeah, welcome to the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Hard to enslave capital D Dark powers without becoming the new Dark power.
Lol.
Obviously, Molly will use whatsisface to craft a ring of Power.
Not the One Ring, certainly, but somewhere in the weight class of the Three.
I mean, Dragon. Pillar of Creation, Dresdenverse version.
Cars, bikes, flying cloaks, et cetera; none of them have the narrative weight to be worth making from what was a pillar of the Dresdenverse cosmology prior to his death.
Plus, there's some symmetry in turning the remains of a dude who went to human sacrificr back to good, or at least neutral purposes. Make lesser items from his hoard, if we can get it.
Or from the Lords of Outer Night.
Anyway, here's a stunt:
[X] Continue the account of the day for one or more of your siblings
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.
-[X]Stunt: Charity's gaze makes you abruptly aware of how many times you've bled on your dress today.
===
I just realized that, assuming we're in July, school should be out for summer in Chicago until sometime in August or September.
Maybe Molly and her sibs are attending summer classes?
Someone with experience of the K12 system might weigh in there.
Or we might consider shifting dates into August, which is when school begins again.
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Huh, thought it would be the last days of school with it starting up again in mid September. I can't really change the dates because of canon... so I'm going to change how the school year works in this version of Earth. Not like that is in canon.
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In regards to what we should / could use the dragon bones, hide, meat and blood for (assuming the blood and meat are still good, since it's unlikely that mundane bacteria and rot would dare touch draconic remains).
According to WoJ ""Dragons" are elemental forces of the cosmos in the more Asian sense of the concept, semi-divine beings who were once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who were responsible for their orderly procession."
From this follow several things:
1) Before using draconic remains we should learn what parts of the mortal universe it was in charge of
2) We should also learn who is in charge of said parts of the mortal universe now. There's a non-zero chance that we can stake a claim. Michael has right of conquest, but can't take the position due to being a knight of the Cross. We are his heir. Unless the mantle has been inherited already (and there's a non-zero chance that Charity could have it, as she was present, is a magical talent, and White God works in mysterious ways), that is.
3) Regardless of what we learn and do at the second point, the best use of draconic remains would obviously be something to do with the parts of the mortal universe the dragon was in charge of.
4) We need to actually learn how physically large the dragon was. If it was as large as a large building, we could and should use its bones in construction of a ritual sight. Something like this, but with dragon, instead of mammoth bones might not be a full manse, but if located in an appropriate location, I think it could come close. A place to concentrate essence in, and try to approach the glories of Creation. Perhaps a mystical fortress.
5) In terms of personal equipment, if we use it for such, I believe our priorities should be, in no particular order:
5.1) Long range mobility, ie transportation. The ability to travel opens us to new plot lines, which is the best thing. I'm not thinking motorcycle, though. I am thinking personal spaceship, with CCC thrown into its creation, and all the excellencies. This would give us global mobility.
5.2) Protection of ourselves and our allies, both our father and Harry. This is important, both for IC reasons and OOC reasons. Do I really need to explain why Molly would want to protect her father?
5.3) Tools. Magical tools. Things to make wonders with. Yes, we have "don't need tools" charm, but that's for mundane stuff. For magical, we could use benefits of tools that have conceptual links to certain domains, if we want to make stuff affecting things in that domain.
5.4) Scrying devices. I mean, depending on how strong the connections are, using dragon's skull / brain to make a scrying device that would be able to peek at everything / something that the Dragon was in charge of might be viable.
According to WoJ ""Dragons" are elemental forces of the cosmos in the more Asian sense of the concept, semi-divine beings who were once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who were responsible for their orderly procession."
From this follow several things:
1) Before using draconic remains we should learn what parts of the mortal universe it was in charge of
2) We should also learn who is in charge of said parts of the mortal universe now. There's a non-zero chance that we can stake a claim. Michael has right of conquest, but can't take the position due to being a knight of the Cross. We are his heir. Unless the mantle has been inherited already (and there's a non-zero chance that Charity could have it, as she was present, is a magical talent, and White God works in mysterious ways), that is.
3) Regardless of what we learn and do at the second point, the best use of draconic remains would obviously be something to do with the parts of the mortal universe the dragon was in charge of.
4) We need to actually learn how physically large the dragon was. If it was as large as a large building, we could and should use its bones in construction of a ritual sight. Something like this, but with dragon, instead of mammoth bones might not be a full manse, but if located in an appropriate location, I think it could come close. A place to concentrate essence in, and try to approach the glories of Creation. Perhaps a mystical fortress.
5) In terms of personal equipment, if we use it for such, I believe our priorities should be, in no particular order:
5.1) Long range mobility, ie transportation. The ability to travel opens us to new plot lines, which is the best thing. I'm not thinking motorcycle, though. I am thinking personal spaceship, with CCC thrown into its creation, and all the excellencies. This would give us global mobility.
5.2) Protection of ourselves and our allies, both our father and Harry. This is important, both for IC reasons and OOC reasons. Do I really need to explain why Molly would want to protect her father?
5.3) Tools. Magical tools. Things to make wonders with. Yes, we have "don't need tools" charm, but that's for mundane stuff. For magical, we could use benefits of tools that have conceptual links to certain domains, if we want to make stuff affecting things in that domain.
5.4) Scrying devices. I mean, depending on how strong the connections are, using dragon's skull / brain to make a scrying device that would be able to peek at everything / something that the Dragon was in charge of might be viable.
According to the Illnois education website
School holidays started Tuesday July 4 and ended Monday September 4.
So not very far off.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Stuff like snow days can push the start of vacation later, so maybe this year had a couple more weeks off for various reasons?
1)Dragons were retired from their original jobs.
Whoever is in charge chose to mix things up, so things changed. I think the roles were eliminated.
2)No there isnt. Right of conquest is not a thing in this cosmology, else Dresden would be both Summer Lady and Winter Lady as well as Winter Knight by this point in canon.
3)True
4)Dresdenverse Dragons are shapeshifters. When Dresden met Ferrovax he was dressed as a Roman centurion IIRC
5)The Ways exist for travel if you're a wizard or a supernatural. Dresden's mother, and I quote, "could be in Beijing at breakfast, Rome at lunch, Seattle for supper and stop for coffee in Sydney."
6)Michael's family are protected while he's on the job. While we will add on to it, its worth keeping in mind that we're not going to match the protection provided by Heaven's security squad.
7)We have Dont Need Tools The Charm for magical stuff on the purchase list.
Its a 4 or 5 dot charm iirc.
We wouldnt even be able to make purely magic stuff without it.
8)Divination is a Sorcerers Path purchase if we want it. Dont need a Dragon for precog and prophecy.
In the modern era of the Internet circa 2006, distant places have news online if they are mundane; if they are magical they are probably warded against magical surveillance.
👍
- Location
- washington
we can match actually as they can't do anything to pure mortals. regular gunman can shoot up micahels house.
Edit: nicodemus can also notably stand right outside the lawn and not be attacked also fairly sure they can't attack if at any point a denarian surrenders. Now if a naagloshi walked onto michaels lawn it would be nuked into oblivion same for even really really really powerful supernatural beings even stronger than them. Its an end game for almost anything if it walks on michaels lawn if its not a pure (relative fairly sure wizards can as long as they leave their magic outside the threshold and similar mortals of that nature like scions probably) mortal.
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Michael has been a Knight of the Cross for more than twenty years. His residence is public knowledge.
They have had ample opportunity to do so.
So why havent they?
Perhaps its because "coincidence" has always seemed to favor their safety and survival.
Like Dresden saving pregnant Charity's life from Kravos. Or everyone making it to a panic room when fetches attacked the house, or Dresden being in town to go save Molly from Arctis Tor, or just happening to be at their house at the same time that a bunch of hobgoblins attacked, or literally giving Butters a lightsaber when Nicky attempted to attack.
We arent going to be capable of matching the comprehensiveness of the direct and indirect protections on that family for a long, long time, if ever.
- Location
- washington
I mean they did in canon? It explicitly happened in one book where they shot up michaels house. they did end up safe in the end though due to harry of course. the mortals shooting them up weren't touched at all by the angels.
Edit: Like clearly there is some level of chance manipulation white god clearly prefers people protecting themselves though so we could always add defenses that you know allow us to beat up mortals shooting us up someday. Also you know its a quest with quest mechanics I doubt dp is gonna allow fate saves the day every single time. Even in the books they get injured all the time and only barely win and often pyrrhic victories where their enemies get away.
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1) Can you give me some quotes on that, please? Wiki doesn't mention that. And even if that's true, history remains, and conceptual links remain, I believe.
2) True, there's no direct right of conquest and the mantle goes to whoever is closest that is compatible. There is a question, if a small one, of whether Charity was compatible. And there's a question of whether craconic domains behave similarly to fae mantles.
4) Dragons are shapeshifters, yes, but I assume that he fought MIchael in a "winged lizard" mode, or reverted to it after death or his remains could be reverted to such a state, otherwise the whole endevour is pointless anyway. however, you bring up a good point - as an inherent shapeshifter, draconic remains could probably be used as a focus for magical shapeshifting tools. Either objects that change shape, such as a shapeshifting armor / weapon / transportation device, or a foci to allow shapeshifting ("always be yourself, unless you can be a dragon; in that case always be a dragon" as the saying goes)
5) That is true, but ways can be monitored, and are hostile to a lot of travelers. Mundane fast travel and orbital superiority give us a factor of surprise and the ultimate high ground. Very few magical factions have dedicated anti-air defenses, as far as I understand
6) Michael's family is. He still needs armor on the job, and we could provide upgrades to what he now has, I believe.
7) That is true, but, if I understand correctly, having magical tools of exceptional quality might give us bonuses.
8) Having a foci helps, like how having Little Chicago helped Dresden's divinations.
- Location
- washington
white god helps those who help themselves and michaels house cannot ward off normies and it was made very clear when dresden repeatedly voiced it when nicodemus hired thugs were shooting up the place.
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Like I said, the level of direct and indirect defenses around that family are well beyond our capabilities, and its not limited to their house.Chance manipulation like that does not happen by mistake.
The fact that the family has come under attack at least three times in five years(Kravos, Fetches, Hobgoblins) without actual damage should tell you just how well protected they are. And noone has managed to successfully hit them while they are at school, or in church, or somewhere nice and vulnerable either.
Not all protection involves big flashy bodyguards and obvious measures. Especially when you're dealing with Dresdenverse angels.
1) Dragons:
2)As far as I am aware, and as it has been described, Dragon is not a Mantle, its a species.Word of Jim said:6. ferrovax – is this because he's the OLDEST dragon? (i thought it was an empty boast) or because he's a dragon?
Ferrovax feels absolutely no need to boast. It's because he /is/ a Dragon, large D, an elemental force of the cosmos. He isn't some kind of Smaug hanging around a nice apartment. He's a Dragon in a more Asian sense of the concept, a semi-divine being who was once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who was responsible for their orderly procession. There /are/ Smauglike dragons (though not nearly as many now as there have been in the past, thanks George!) but they are essentially nothing but emissaries and servitors created in the image of the real thing.
Regardless of big D or little d, dragons almost universally resent humanity for usurping the balance of power in the world.
2009 Independence signing
Q: Will we see Ferro again?
A: Yes, he'll be back for the apocalyptic trilogy.
2010 Bitten by Books Q&A:
#189 "Was Sirothrax a major dragon like Ferrovax or a minor dragon?"
He was the real deal, though he was in some ways the weakest of the remaining great dragons.
Ferrovax wouldn't have given a damn about some nobody minor dragon being slain.
#228 "Is the Eldest gruff ever going to make another appearance? And in a match of Him and Lea vs Ferrovax, who would you bet on?"
Ferrovax would crush them both, if they had time to get ready, got to pick the time and place, and pulled out every resource at their disposal. It would be brief and brutal, like watching Tyson in his prime, when the fights were all 30 seconds long, except replacing his opponent with a 15 year old blind girl.
There's just no comparison, there. Lea and Elder gruff are deadly beings. But Ferrovax is a force of nature. MAB would be loathe to take on Ferro, at least head-on.
2011 NYC Signing Q&A
When are we going to hear more about drakes and dragons?
like Ferrovax? Ferrovax will probably come in real late in the case books and we might see some dragon action about that. I've got a good idea for it and it is suitably cool. But we'll get there at some point. I hope so. I'll be terribly disappointed if it isn't, and (little fake shake to his voice) everyone will yell at me on Twitter.
2011 Atlanta Signing
You mentioned that Mister Ferro won't be back until the Apocalyptic Trilogy, right? [Jim: Probably not.] Will we see other dragons before that?
A: How many dragons do you guys want? [audience: "All of them!"] Actually, we're darn close. There's only like three or four of them left in the world. Which is why killing one is kind of a big deal. Also, its going to totally upset all kinds of things if that happens. So: of course. You can't just go 'I slew a dragon!' 'Greaaaaat. You did what? You did what?' That's the kind of reaction you garner, especially from people who are defenders of the status quo, which is pretty much everyone.
2014 AMA
1) What ever happened to Siriothrax's hoard? Did any of the magical powerups in the series we've seen so far originate there?
1) Heh, it's still right where it was. NO ONE wants to pick up anything from a Dragon's hoard. Talk about Death Curses…
The other dragon still walking the earth is named Pyrovax
Once & Future Podcast @~60m
Dragons are the kind of forces that you put in charge of things like..
"It's time for another ice age, you- go handle that."
"We really need this continent to be split by a giant river, arrange it."
"Ok."
That's the kind of thing that Dragons would be doing
2016 DF Reddit podcast Q&A
What did Ferrovax receive at Bianca's party?
He got gold and gems. Not like a ton, it was several million dollars worth.
Was it infected?
Come on! Please.
A type of person. Only so many Great Dragons existed, and there dont seem to be any replacements of the dead, or anyone inheriting their roles or power.
3)We dont know anything about what their fight was like. With the Sword of Love in the mix, you really cant assume anything, since its explicitly the role of a Sword to balance the scales for its wielder. Whether that means forcing Siriothrax into humanoid form, or turning Michael into a discount Saber throwing Excaliblasts, or a knockoff Sidereal.
4) Thats a problem for other people who need to git gud. Molly's an Infernal.
She has disguise charms to look like other people, including fae, stealth charms to move unnoticed, and survival charms to travel comfortably and fed in the wilderness, with or without a party. She has got charms for crossing into the Nevernever, and Exalted Sorcery for doing opening portals.
We can take a car or bike or SUV across the Ways to make our travel faster if we are travelling with a party.
Or we can unlock Flight and fly if we're alone.
5)Michael doesnt need better antimagic armor; thats what the Sword is for.
Better ordinary armor maybe, but you dont need magic or enchantments for that. And its more for Molly's peace of mind than anything else.
If you look at the other knights we have seen? Sanya has been rolling around in a bulletproof vest and nothing more for at least five years that we know, Sword in one hand and AK in the other. Shiro wore no armor whatsoever prior to his death that I can recall. Butters doesnt have heavy armor that I know of as of Cold Days.
Each Knight does what they're comfortable with. And it seems to work out for them. Kinda like the paradigm of a Mage.
6)I cant really say.
Exalted yes, but in ExWoD those sorts of tool bonuses doesnt seem to apply that I've seen in the book.
Could be wrong of course.
7)Little Chicago was a masterwork of sympathetic magic, with samples taken from all over Chicago incorporated into its structure.
And yet for all that time and investment, Dresden uses it to find stuff, not to perform realtime surveillance of locations of interest at will. You're asking for something closer to a Palantir from LoTR, and I dont know if thats even doable.
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- Location
- washington
there is literally zero defenses aside from personal choice to protect oneself against other mortals. Nonthing supports there being anything White Gods not gonna prevent the murder of some humans by other humans as far as I know its all a choice.
Like your kinda saying shit like harrys efforts to protect people time and time again is just God harrys saved plenty of people time and time again who aren't the carpenters. Sure some die hes still saved other groups time and time again though.
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That is not true.
It was not coincidence that after the events of Skin Game, Butters drew Fidelacchius outside Michael's house just in time to scare away Nicky and his cultists from the home.
The White God is big on free will, but his agents have a Sidereal-like facility for arranging coincidences to protect his agents.
- Location
- washington
ehhh maybe that doesn't change the fact that hes not gonna prevent free will being ennacted and clearly only free will can beat free will in these instances. All these scenarios where they were beaten were due to the efforts of those with free will. Now is God making a rube goldberg machine with people somewhat probably is it all in accordance to their free will also yes. If they ever chose to just give up I'm sure they'd die too. Like we can put some defenses and that will essentially be ennacting our own free will its not gonna not help just cause you say we can't beat the defenses. Like sure the anti supernatural defenses no way we can beat those good chances mab themselves could walk on michaels lawn to attack them and would get crushed. But we can place some defenses against random gunners so no one gets injured white gods shit hasn't prevented injuries just people winning if barely and at great risk.
Edit: Also you know there aren't any actual wards on our building its 'just' guard angels who are supremely powerful when defending against things that aren't mortal.
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Looking at those names, Ferrovax, Pyrovax, and Sirovax I'm tempted to assign them elemental domains. Not sure what Sirovax would be, but to my ear at least that sounds like a wind/air related prefix.
It'd be funny if for exalted crossover purposes they're literally the elemental dragons. As in, if we invoke that earth dragon ritual spell we literally mail some essence to Ferrovax at his old address.
Proven Guilty chapter 30
Dresden had been in that house multiple times over multiple years before.
And he'd never noticed that this was there, even when he had a Fallen's shadow in his head.
And this was before the Angel brute squad began to show up when Michael retired.
Do not mistake subtlety for nonexistence. Or assume that there is only one layer to the defenses around that family.
The people running his protection detail have been playing Xanatos Speed Chess against much graver threats for millenia.
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- Location
- washington
fair again though doesn't do shit against free will and there's no reason unless its an exp cost we can't eventually make stuff that makes bullets less useful against our families house.
Lol.
That could be an option for what to do with Siriothrax's corpse that would match the narrative weight of his death: Make a new elemental dragon to bolster Earth's stability against the Outsiders.
Are you a bad enough sorcerer/crafter to make a replacement?
- Location
- washington
that seems well above our pay grade lol.
.
Let me be clear here: if a set of mundanes really wanted to kill Michael's family and they didnt have angelic protection?
None of this would help.
Bulletproof gear is not going to do much about people throwing grenades and firing RPGs.
It wont do anything about car bombs parked outside the house. Or pipe bombs under their car.
Nothing about getting run over by a car as school was let out.
It wont do anything about a gas leak and an initiator to blow the house up, or just to poison everyone in their sleep.
It wont stop them blowing up the church on Sunday when everyone goes to service.
Or setting the school on fire and locking the fire safety doors.
I could go on.
Molly is a bad bitch and would survive. Everyone else would die.
There is a reason I refer to layered protection. Most of the defenses around the Carpenter family you will never even see, because when they are working correctly everything looks fine.