Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Ebenezer was his teacher. He lived with him on his farm for between eighteen months and three years. Dude defends him in Council. His staff is carved from a branch of a tree on his farm.
I read the "I don't know" as a literal "I don't know". As in 'I can not predict the outcomes of telling him about Warlock-on-Council'.

Your phrasing of "Still has doubts" has, in my mind, implications of "I (Harry) think that teach will do stuff that results in avoidable suffering/mor suffering than the alternative" and that just wasn't the vibe I got.


Basically. I; someone who has not read any Harry Dresden books, think that the sort of person who did the stuff in the quoted bit of your post, is likely to take good enough-ish actions in response to this info.

Don't know him? We had an entire updoot or two with him!
He seemed like a cool guy and I really liked the cut of his jib.

And I would prefer that he knows that there is a warlock on the Council that gives him orders as opposed to Harry running around alone with this info.

Other background stuff happens, and Mr. McNotScrooge might do some things differently knowing that (at least) one of the people telling him what needs to be done is a little bit... ehhhhh *wriggles hand*
 
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Dr. Hans Ulrich Speer, Bone Digger, Stone Breaker
Johann of Cleaves, Wizard, Pianist, Lover of Flames
Katrina Sigfriddotir, the Forsaken Sister
Lucian of Cephaloedium, the Thrice Betrayer, Namshiel's Bearer
Marcus Scribonius Libo Drusus, the Hollow Seer
Theodosius Cristos, the Broken Bridge
Dutifully you recount the whole names and titles, all six of them and you guess Gorfel makes seven.
In order of age, by my best guess, and looking at the names:
-Lucian aka Thorned Namshiel (circa Christ)
-Marcus Drusus (Western Roman Empire)
-Katrina Sigfridottir (First millenium/early second millenium Norse)
-Johann of Cleaves (Dark Ages/Medieval Europe)
-Speer/Theodosius Cristos(post-Renaissance)

The most striking thing here is that judging by their names, all of them, besides Speer and Cristos, should be much, much older than Kemmler. Which makes the Society that Gorfel belongs to much older than Kemmler, and older than the Third Reich.
Number 7 would have been Kemmler, not Gorfel. Which means that seat is empty.

Im getting the feeling that these are Gorfel's bosses, not his colleagues.
He's probably the equivalent of middle-management, and those guys, judgimg by their antecedents, are C-suite.
Which explains why he's out here trying to steal demonhunter bones for a powerup.
 
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I read the "I don't know" as a literal "I don't know". As in 'I can not predict the outcomes of telling him about Warlock-on-Council'.
Your phrasing of "Still has doubts" has, in my mind, implications of "I (Harry) think that teach will do stuff that results in avoidable suffering/mor suffering than the alternative" and that just wasn't the vibe I got.

Basically. I; someone who has not read any Harry Dresden books, think that the sort of person who did the stuff in the quoted bit of your post, is likely to take good enough-ish actions in response to this info.

Don't know him? We had an entire updoot or two with him!
He seemed like a cool guy and I really liked the cut of his jib.

And I would prefer that he knows that there is a warlock on the Council that gives him orders as opposed to Harry running around alone with this info. Other background stuff happens, and Mr. McNotScrooge might do some things differently knowing that (at least) one of the people telling him what needs to be done is a little bit... ehhhhh *wriggles hand*
1)Read that again.
He said I dont know what Ebenezer would do. When we're dealing with incomplete information, thats very fucking bad.
Especially since we have no way of knowing IC that Peabody is also a thing, and that Nemesis is also running a very long game.

2) Yes. Ebenezer's solution could be much worse than the problem.
This is the dude who caused the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-1812. Who set off the Krakatoa eruption in 1883, and caused the Tunguska explosion of 1908.

If Ebenezar decides that its worth dying to kill a warlock on the Council, or that a mass casualty event is necessary, we have no way of stopping him or knowing what the results are, or who replaces him. This is not an unprecedented situation; Dresden suicided to spite Mab in canon, requiring Demonreach, Mab and Uriel to keep him alive, and his absence fucked up Chicago.

Ebenezer McCoy raised Dresden for the last years of his adolesence. He was formative in what Dresden is.
You should be fucking wary about what information you give to a guy whose idea of removing a threat is orbital bombardment of an estate where the hostile lived, collateral damage be damned.

2)Ebenezer McCoy is ALSO Senior Council.
He doesnt take orders from the Senior Council, he acts for them. Think of an autonomous CIA; thats what the Blackstaff is, not a subordinate or an employee.
 
I read the "I don't know" as a literal "I don't know". As in 'I can not predict the outcomes of telling him about Warlock-on-Counc
This is a quote from a conversation betwee Dresden and McCoy in Blood Rites, when Dresden just found out that McCoy was the Blackstaff, and indeed that the Blackstaff is a thing:
"Casaverde," Ebenezar said, his voice shaking. "Tunguska. New Madrid. Krakatoa. A dozen more. God help me, a dozen more at least." -Blood Rites
When Dresden says he doesnt know what Ebenezer will do, there's very good reason for it.
Because Ebenezer has admitted to him to have a bodycount in the hundreds of thousands of lives; just New Madrid and Krakatoa put him in the six figures easily.

And dont forget that he acts for the White Council. He is against black magic, but he's also for the survival of the WC. If he decides that Molly Carpenter knowing of the WC being infiltrated is too much of a security risk to the WC's corporate legitimacy, Molly's life is not more important than that of the other dead.

You really should know the man better before making assumptions about what he will or will not do.
 
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1)Read that again.
He said I dont know what Ebenezer would do. When we're dealing with incomplete information, thats very fucking bad.
Especially since we have no way of knowing IC that Peabody is also a thing, and that Nemesis is also running a very long game.

2) Yes. Ebenezer's solution could be much worse than the problem.
This is the dude who caused the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-1812. Who set off the Krakatoa eruption in 1883, and caused the Tunguska explosion of 1908.

If Ebenezar decides that its worth dying to kill a warlock on the Council, or that a mass casualty event is necessary, we have no way of stopping him or knowing what the results are, or who replaces him. This is not an unprecedented situation; Dresden suicided to spite Mab in canon, requiring Demonreach, Mab and Uriel to keep him alive, and his absence fucked up Chicago.

Ebenezer McCoy raised Dresden for the last years of his adolesence. He was formative in what Dresden is.
You should be fucking wary about what information you give to a guy whose idea of removing a threat is orbital bombardment of an estate where the hostile lived, collateral damage be damned.

2)Ebenezer McCoy is ALSO Senior Council.
He doesnt take orders from the Senior Council, he acts for them. Think of an autonomous CIA; thats what the Blackstaff is, not a subordinate or an employee.
note you didn't contradict this he was blackstaff before senior council though their not mutually exclusive.
 
note you didn't contradict this he was blackstaff before senior council though their not mutually exclusive.
The Senior Council does not give the Blackstaff orders.
Im not even sure they appoint him, as opposed to the previous holder choosing his/her successor.
I wasnt kidding when I compared him to an autonomous CIA.

The Blackstaff is empowered to break the Laws of Magic.
The Council cant give him orders to do so because they would be breaking the laws of magic to do so.
Thats my recollection anyway.
 
The Senior Council does not give the Blackstaff orders.
Im not even sure they appoint him, as opposed to the previous holder choosing his/her successor.
I wasnt kidding when I compared him to an autonomous CIA.

The Blackstaff is empowered to break the Laws of Magic.
The Council cant give him orders to do so because they would be breaking the laws of magic to do so.
Thats my recollection anyway.
just mentioning their not mutually exclusive also you could be right its not like there's any say on it though. White council can probably point them in a certain direction and inform them of stuff though and obviously being blackstaff they can make their own decisions from there.
 
'I can handle it,' doesn't seem to cut it, but part of you does think you can handle it, that you can handle all this stuff, wizard, madman and Fallen Angels given enough time.
What do you do with the list of names and titles?
She might be right there, even though she knows dickall about the Dresdenverse magical community.
But she has no way of being sure that she can protect the people around her

Literally less than a week since Queen Mab's fetches invaded her family home and beat up her junior brother.
This is definitely something that affects her calculations.
Surviving an attack is scant comfort if they collateral your family or friends.


What do you do with the list of names and titles?

[] Keep it for Harry alone, he will try to investigate it until he has some other source to quote to the Council
[] Offer it to Ebeneezer, you trust the canny old man even on such short acquaintance
[] Offer it freely to the Senior Council, prove that you can be an asset they cannot deny and dare not move against
VOTE
[X] Keep it for Harry alone, he will try to investigate it until he has some other source to quote to the Council




REASONS
1) She knows and trusts Harry. She's known him for at least five years, since the events of Grave Peril.
She has Soulgazed him.

He has risked his life for both her and her family repeatedly; before saving her from Arctis Tor, he saved Charity from Kravos when she was pregnant with Harry Junior, which is why Junior is named after him. Her father knows and trusts Harry and his judgement. Two other Knights of the Cross, Shiro when he was alive, and Sanya now, trusted Harry and his judgement.

She has entrusted him with most of her occult secrets, and he has entrusted her with some of his, namely Lash.
Harry already knows that she has some form of intellectus.
YES.

2) We've met Ebenezer McCoy once, and we've seen him in Dresden's memories/temporal history.
We like him at first meeting IC, but we know literally nothing about the man, his professional judgement, or how he would react to such sensitive information.

We certainly have not entrusted him with any of our secrets besides "no longer a purely mortal spellcaster" which is by Word of QM obvious to anyone with magic senses; the self-contained Darkhallow that is an Infernal Exalt is apparently not subtle.
And Harry, the dude who knows him best, is outright expressing reservations about his potential reaction to this information.

NO. Not until and unless we know him better, or conditions change.


3) She doesnt know the Senior Council. Nor does she have reason right now to trust their judgement.
She knows that the head of the Senior Council is antagonistic towards Harry Dresden.
And she's been warned to keep her intellectus as secret as possible.

NO.
====
Thomas Raith and Karrin Murphy both came to save her from Arctis Tor.

She owes them her life. She's positively inclined towards them, and would intervene to fuck with whoever fucks with them on general principles. She still isnt going to be sharing secrets of her power with them unless its absolutely necessary until she knows a lot more about their judgement and likely reactions.

Same principle here.
 
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[X] Keep it for Harry alone, he will try to investigate it until he has some other source to quote to the Council
 
[X] Keep it for Harry alone, he will try to investigate it until he has some other source to quote to the Council

We can afford to slow down and not escalate this to the top right away. Probably.
 
you know harry also isn't ready for this shit right? He literally can't do anything against the wizard either without bringing it up to the senior council. Harry is a good wrecking ball hes not a one man army and he can't do this shit alone.
 
We could use a question just to dig up who's using black magic on the council.
Exalts, definition of Go Big or Go Home.
Sure, we could use the next time we meet a Senior Council member to ask "which living Senior Council member is using black magic."
Problem is that its not just about who is using black magic on the Senior Council.
There are multiple bad guy factions in play.

That question would not have caught Samuel Peabody, who was not on the Senior Council, but was their secretary, and used the opportunity to whammy them, and was apparently aligned with Nemesis. It would catch Ebenezer McCoy, who does use black magic when necessary, but is authorized to do it secretly.

If anyone on the Council is under the influence of a loved one or associate, you have much the same effect.
And with no independent proof, its just your word against theirs.

Remember that Ebenezer has not Soulgazed Molly.
He has seen her in action, but doesnt know what her Power feels like from the inside.
He doesnt have the shadow of a Fallen Angel in his head telling him "Wow this is BIG"

If we told Harry to tell him, he would be taking Harry's word for this. And thats not the same thing.
you know harry also isn't ready for this shit right? He literally can't do anything against the wizard either without bringing it up to the senior council. Harry is a good wrecking ball hes not a one man army and he can't do this shit alone.
You are overlooking Dresden's primary mundane talent: Harry is an experienced investigator.
Its his livelihood, and his career, to dig up evidence that will convince people.
Thats quite separate from his killiness.

As of this point in the timeline, Harry has foiled the FBI hexenwulfen in Full Moon, uncovered Kravos' plan in Grave Peril, Aurora's plan back in Summer Knight, Nicky's plot in Death Masks, and the entropy curse murders in Blood Rites.
He has a canon record for pulling off this sort of investigation successfully.

Ebenezer is a wet works guy. He doesnt need to convince anyone other than himself.
 
@DragonParadox
Potential crafting idea with mundane utility: Magicbane shield (0-2 dots)
Faraday cage/shield against the techbane, for one(1) technological device. Must be in contact with said device to offer its protection, and may be made i appropriate form factors.

Example being a protective case(or a sticker) for a mobile phone; sticker might go inside the battery compartment to be lowprofile.
Or a set of grounding cables for a refridgerator or computer or TV.

0-1 dot(a pack of multiple copies count as 1 dot): Standard. Protects against the ambient techbane of serious magic practitioners
1-2 dot: Heavy-duty. Protects against weaponized effects aimed at an area.
2-3dot: Combat grade. Provides some protection against directed effects, and will shut down your device so it can be rebooted laterwithout permanent damage.

The aim is not to providr protection against techbane spells aimed specifically at your device at short range, just like a bullet at short range will go through most bulletproof vests.
But against AoE To Whom It May Concern effects or long range potshots, it should provide fairly reliable protection.
 
Sure, we could use the next time we meet a Senior Council member to ask "which living Senior Council member is using black magic."
Problem is that its not just about who is using black magic on the Senior Council.
There are multiple bad guy factions in play.

That question would not have caught Samuel Peabody, who was not on the Senior Council, but was their secretary, and used the opportunity to whammy them, and was apparently aligned with Nemesis. It would catch Ebenezer McCoy, who does use black magic when necessary, but is authorized to do it secretly.

If anyone on the Council is under the influence of a loved one or associate, you have much the same effect.
And with no independent proof, its just your word against theirs.

Remember that Ebenezer has not Soulgazed Molly.
He has seen her in action, but doesnt know what her Power feels like from the inside.
He doesnt have the shadow of a Fallen Angel in his head telling him "Wow this is BIG"

If we told Harry to tell him, he would be taking Harry's word for this. And thats not the same thing.

You are overlooking Dresden's primary mundane talent: Harry is an experienced investigator.
Its his livelihood, and his career, to dig up evidence that will convince people.
Thats quite separate from his killiness.

As of this point in the timeline, Harry has foiled the FBI hexenwulfen in Full Moon, uncovered Kravos' plan in Grave Peril, Aurora's plan back in Summer Knight, Nicky's plot in Death Masks, and the entropy curse murders in Blood Rites.
He has a canon record for pulling off this sort of investigation successfully.

Ebenezer is a wet works guy. He doesnt need to convince anyone other than himself.
I'm not overlooking what he can do I'm looking at how much heat he can acquire dresdens good the books have made it clear a lot of people are better than him in many ways and taking a fucking beating multiple times in EVERY SINGLE BOOK.
 
I read the "I don't know" as a literal "I don't know". As in 'I can not predict the outcomes of telling him about Warlock-on-Council'.
He's probably going to think that whatever pinged off of a senior council warlock is referring to him.

The senior council isn't a generic group or rank, each one has a specific job even though they go out of their way to downplay that aspect.

Blackstaff isn't just Ebenezer's title as black ops guy, it's an artifact that somehow converts the mental corruption of black magic into some other nebulously defined consequence he can sort of sleep off. It's the reason he can deorbit stuff into populated areas to kill a particular person and not be driven crazy by the casualties he causes doing so.


Incidentally, no matter how cool he is I'd rather not clue in the white council equivalent of the director of the CIA that we might be worth poking with a stick.

On a more IC level, we've met him once. It'd be crazy to trust him at this point.

It's not like Molly shouldn't know to take this seriously by now. Dresden warned her at the earliest opportunity, Lash tried to trick her into wasting a question in their first conversation, and Uriel made a personal visit to Micheal to deliver an offer. An offer that probably costs him more than the obvious to follow through on, since formally updating the duties of the knights sounds like one of those things that give the enemy a marker in the weird relationship between heaven and hell in DF.

It's clearly a big deal, and not something we should hint at unless we really have to.

[X] Keep it for Harry alone, he will try to investigate it until he has some other source to quote to the Council
 
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