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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
Unfortunately, Peabody is still undercover in the White Council.
So any report that Dresden or McCoy makes to the Senior Council is going straight to Nemesis and the Black Council.
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If you're worried about the Black Council finding out that we Exalted, it's a bit late for that, surely? We Exalted in the middle of Winter and followed up by beating up a Winter lieutenant, so Maeve/Nemesis is almost certainly already aware.
 
[X] Simply that you are not a danger and that you can no longer wield mortal sorcery and thus not under the mandate of the Seven Laws
 
uju32 said:
-Given how difficult it is to hide an anima flare, one wonders if McCoy is hiding the anima flare itself, or just making it impossible to distinguish the source.

Hmm.
The first option is probably not true, since I suspect she can learn how to wield Dresdenverse magic just fine, just without the same limitations that vanilla mortals do, and more like say the Fae.
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We took anima control we don't start showing until we spend 4 essence.
 
uju32 said:
-I dont think it was a coincidence that the spymaster of Heaven arranged for the White Council's Blackstaff to overhear that a Knight of the Cross had received explicit reassurances about his daughter's entanglement with an Infernal Exaltation.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Uriel. We owe you one.
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I think it's Lash`s doing. It's her talking to us which enables Uriel to make a move to correct the scales.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
We took anima control we don't start showing until we spend 4 essence.
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You flared intentionally to get the sword sheathed in fire on the first turn in addition to the excellency.

As for how he is hiding it, well he has been the White Council's assassin for a long time, one can assume he is used to having to hide things that are normally really hard to hide. Don't expect ordinary wizards to be able to pull the same tricks as him, though other Senior Council members will have their own specialties that are not 'killing things and hiding'.
 
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[X] Simply that you are not a danger and that you can no longer wield mortal sorcery and thus not under the mandate of the Seven Laws
 
DragonParadox said:
Actually wait I misread the text, it says 'a clone within her presence' so you would have to figure out some way to count as 'present' for for your clones at all times to pull off the trick above.
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That's fairly Easy, in my estimation, in DF Thalmatugy is the Magic of Like Attracts Like, simply have one of the mortal molly's cast a linking spell between Molly Prime and Molly Sleeping Beauty (The Molly With No Memories or Experiences) with a set of paired rings so they always count as touching one another.
 
DragonParadox said:
You cannot train up the magic talent of Joe Normal to do more than make circles and participate in rituals which mostly run on their own magic.
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I'm less interested in our clones doing magic than I am in them, say, actually maintaining the human part of our existence since our path will stray ever farther. Maybe even give our mother what she wants, perhaps the changeling child flipped on its head so things are strangely better. Go to the university, keep up with friends, basically to be who we should have been. The 'us' who is a thing of ice and fire and eyes would sleep better.
 
Modus_Tollens said:
I'm less interested in our clones doing magic than I am in them, say, actually maintaining the human part of our existence since our path will stray ever farther. Maybe even give our mother what she wants, perhaps the changeling child flipped on its head so things are strangely better. Go to the university, keep up with friends, basically to be who we should have been. The 'us' who is a thing of ice and fire and eyes would sleep better.
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By the time we get the Charm it's propably too late for this.
Our clone will remember being us after all.
 
Modus_Tollens said:
I'm less interested in our clones doing magic than I am in them, say, actually maintaining the human part of our existence since our path will stray ever farther. Maybe even give our mother what she wants, perhaps the changeling child flipped on its head so things are strangely better. Go to the university, keep up with friends, basically to be who we should have been. The 'us' who is a thing of ice and fire and eyes would sleep better.
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But she would still be you, she would still know more of the occult than most mortal practitioners learn in a lifetime, she would still have your curiosity for the otherworldly, if not the Urge of infernal Exaltation and when the cards are down she is still an aspect of a demon flayed apart in flesh and spirit and set loose. Clones are loyal but they are not puppets so if you ask one to live a normal life she is more likely to play the part than fully embrace the mundane.

Granted 'ritualist Molly' or 'supernatural consultant for Special Operations Molly' would likely fit what Charity would like of her daughter more, but she is not going to forget that you are out there was well.
 
Rob Rimsill said:
If you're worried about the Black Council finding out that we Exalted, it's a bit late for that, surely? We Exalted in the middle of Winter and followed up by beating up a Winter lieutenant, so Maeve/Nemesis is almost certainly already aware.
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We dont know when Maeve was infected by Nemesis, just that she was infected by Cold Days.
The Leanansidhe has been infected back in Grave Peril and is currently being treated by Mab, but when Maeve was exposed is up in the air. No way of knowing.

And given that Mab doesnt tell Maeve everything anyway, even if she was infected she would not necessarily know.

=====
On a tangent?
@DragonParadox
Molly at 17 is five foot eleven inches tall, like her mother Charity.
Thats according to the semiofficial Dresdenverse timeline maintained by some of his superfans and betas on the author website
MICHAEL'S KIDS, CIRCA PROVEN GUILTY [p. 62]:

Margaret Katherine Amanda (Molly) – 17. She is 14 in DM (thanks, Zarrot!); therefore, her birthday is after July and before late February, when DM takes place. (However, Jim gives her age as 19 in White Night, though less than a year has gone by between PG and WN. Clearly, Molly has recently spent time in a DeLorean or a spaceship cunningly disguised as a Police Box.) She's an inch or so under six feet, like her mother, and naturally blonde, though she's taken to dyeing her hair in crazy colors: cotton candy pink and blue in PG, bleached white in WN.
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www.jim-butcher.com

Series Timeline

TABLE OF CONTENTS Pre-Storm Front Timeline Storm Front and beyond Character Timelines Some Explanations While we know Storm Front takes place within a couple years of 2000, it’s impossible to…
www.jim-butcher.com
 
Artemis1992 said:
By the time we get the Charm it's propably too late for this.
Our clone will remember being us after all.
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As long as a part of us has a desire for such things, even if it would normally be lost in glare of other desires, it wouldn't be too late. We love our family, we love our friends, but there is just so much more out there. I think it would be something more tolerable if we know that the mirror cracked and some of us went one way, some the other, and all of it is being experienced.

I wouldn't expect the other us... and I don't even like to think of this as a clone... to forget magic. Just be able to handle the shit we can't. As bad as Harry is at managing his personal life, we are probably going to be worse without this. We can make a fine lasagna but we probably won't even be on the grid for large, large stretches of time.

If we have wants that are smothered beneath other, mutually exclusive wants? Suddenly those wants aren't mutually exclusive.
 
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Modus_Tollens said:
As long as a part of us has a desire for such things, even if it would normally be lost in glare of other desires, it wouldn't be too late. We love our family, we love our friends, but there is just so much more out there. I think it would be something more tolerable if we know that the mirror cracked and some of us went one way, some the other, and all of it is being experienced.

I wouldn't expect the other us... and I don't even like to think of this as a clone... to forget magic. Just be able to handle the shit we can't. As bad as Harry is at managing his personal life, we are probably going to be worse without this. We can make a fine lasagna but we probably won't even be on the grid for large, large stretches of time.

If we have wants that are smothered beneath other, mutually exclusive wants? Suddenly those wants aren't mutually exclusive.
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I just think using a magic born of ths Hell of Being Flayed Alive to create clones from the flayed streamers of your Essence to relive normal mortal life is a bit ... well, I'll just say it fits with Solars, specifically First Age Solars.

Its a bit counterintuitive and going "surely just throwing power at it will make it work like I think it should".

Since unless we devour them and gain the memories, theres no satisfaction of any hypothetical urge for a "normal life" (Exaltations don't even bind to people who'd have that iirc).

And having it live with Charity and gain friends is just an extremely elaborate lie
 
[X] Offer to help as you can in the war the Council is fighting, you have no qualms that the Red Court is an evil that must be defeated at all costs after what you have seen today
 
Looking at Nemesis it seems to be a nasty piece of work.
Not dangeorus to us personally, Solariods are immune to most kinds of possession and we can protect ourselves with Impervious Primacy Mantle from any direct control.
If it is possible to infect us, we could surpress it with Impervious Primacy Mantle until we buy Ego-Infused Pattern Primacy as an absolute defence against anything trying to "transform, infect, taint, transport, or control her body or spirit".

But of course the bigger issue is the other people it controls, not its relativly low chance of exerting direct influence on us.
 
Valkhir said:
Since unless we devour them and gain the memories, theres no satisfaction of any hypothetical urge for a "normal life" (Exaltations don't even bind to people who'd have that iirc).

And having it live with Charity and gain friends is just an extremely elaborate lie
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Molly would regularly absorb that clone and recreate a new one with the merged memories, so from the perspective of any one clone instance they'd just taken a brief break from their exciting magical life to chill with her family, while both the clone and original would have the memory of having a healthy 'work'/life balance.
 
I like immortality as much as the next guy, but that Clone Charm just sounds viscerally disturbing. If Molly is cool with it, great. For some reason, however, I think she would any away from it.
 
Alratan said:
Molly would regularly absorb that clone and recreate a new one with the merged memories, so from the perspective of any one clone instance they'd just taken a brief break from their exciting magical life to chill with her family, while both the clone and original would have the memory of having a healthy 'work'/life balance.
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Well, some questions or problems.

Why do you assume the clones would...want to do that? DP already elaborated above.

Another is that Charity and others would still know.

Also reminds me too much of Fiend/Ebon Dragon style "lying and false hope are kindness" stuff some Infernals can fall into.

Nah

Edit: I don't dislike the Charm itself, but if its going to be used for that nah.
Them doing research, helping us by being sniper support or a squad.
Creating alibis.
These are what seems better. And seeing as Molly herself is curious, seeks occult knowledge and is evidently up for killing Red Court it would be in line with their desires as well.
 
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Valkhir said:
Well, some questions or problems.

Why do you assume the clones would...want to do that? DP already elaborated above.

Another is that Charity and others would still know.

Also reminds me too much of Fiend/Ebon Dragon style "lying and false hope are kindness" stuff some Infernals can fall into.

Nah.
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Would Molly want to be able to take two or three days off 'work' at the drop of a hat any time she wanted while also being able to meet her commitments and go on adventures as well? She's a teenager (and, indeed, person) of course she would.

The clone isn't a permanent other person. With only a few days to diverge it's just another instance of Molly, particularly as the clone will remember previous times when she was in multiple places at once as her original self and as clones.

This is basically multi-presence with a bit of a lag in terms and of social activities. She can simultaneously go on an adventure with Harry, go to the cinema with friends; spend some time taking her young siblings to the zoo, and afterwards she and any clones she subsequently creates will remember them as if they did them personally.

It's not lying. The continuity of memory means that Molly is just able to be in more than one place at once, even if she can only use supernatural powers in one place at once.

You just describe it to Charity that way, as multi-presence rather than clones.
 
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Ok, vote closed, let's see how this conversation goes
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 19, 2022 at 1:01 PM, finished with 95 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X] Offer to help as you can in the war the Council is fighting, you have no qualms that the Red Court is an evil that must be defeated at all costs after what you have seen today
    [X] Simply that you are not a danger and that you can no longer wield mortal sorcery and thus not under the mandate of the Seven Laws
    [X] Offer to help in the Council's war. You managed to kill one of those things, and apparently that's a big deal... and it wasn't particularly difficult for you. All you're saying is - you want to help, and you think the Council needs that help, at least when it comes to fighting whatever those were.
    [x]Approach theme 1: You can't do normal magic any more but you don't need black magic induced madness to go mad with power, it just helps and you still have power as the dead outsider demonstrates.
    -[x]Approach Theme 2: Rosie didn't deserve what you did, and even if you could theoretically fix it, that would likely open up other ethical issues/rub salt on the wound.
    -[x]Offer to work with them, either with swords against the red court/outsiders or just spreading awareness of the dangers of black magic
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Goldfish said:
I like immortality as much as the next guy, but that Clone Charm just sounds viscerally disturbing. If Molly is cool with it, great. For some reason, however, I think she would any away from it.
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For an Infernal in regular Exalted this Charm would be the culmination of a long series of Charms delving deep into Adorjan's nature and mindset.

With that preparation it would be quite natural to split of parts of yourself, to create and destroy them at a whim. You have learned to let go at that point, or you wouldn't have delved so deep into Adorjan in the first place.

Isolated as Charms as in this setting, and without the connection to the Yozi, things get a bit weird though.
 
Modus_Tollens said:
As long as a part of us has a desire for such things, even if it would normally be lost in glare of other desires, it wouldn't be too late. We love our family, we love our friends, but there is just so much more out there. I think it would be something more tolerable if we know that the mirror cracked and some of us went one way, some the other, and all of it is being experienced.

I wouldn't expect the other us... and I don't even like to think of this as a clone... to forget magic. Just be able to handle the shit we can't. As bad as Harry is at managing his personal life, we are probably going to be worse without this. We can make a fine lasagna but we probably won't even be on the grid for large, large stretches of time.

If we have wants that are smothered beneath other, mutually exclusive wants? Suddenly those wants aren't mutually exclusive.
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Or we could go to school and hang out with our family the normal way?

If our family even qualifies as "normal" given our dads real job, and our moms second job arming and armoring him.

Also wizard friends and family.

If there was a deeper, stronger masquerade separating them and the supernatural...

It's not the age of sorrows, and it's not the world of darkness.

We can have friends and loved ones. While being supernatural, without being hunted by everyone on the planet.

...though results may vary. Hary and Michael might indeed put their loved ones in danger with their line of work.

But it's nothing like trying to run around shooting sunlight off in the age of sorrow.
 
Goldfish said:
I like immortality as much as the next guy, but that Clone Charm just sounds viscerally disturbing. If Molly is cool with it, great. For some reason, however, I think she would any away from it.
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Its essentially Naruto's Shadow Clone Technique.
The one he and a bunch of other major characters(Sarutobi, Kakashi) used for literally everything in the manga and anime series, including attritional combat techniques. Just that here the clones dont get magic powers unless Molly is in Shintai.

Even using one as a backup Horcrux is the equivalent of Naruto dropping a Sage Mode Clone to gather chakra as backup during the fight with Pain.
 
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