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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
OOC: Tiff is short for Tiffany which comes from the Greek Theophania which is traditionally given to girls born on the Feast of the Epiphany, which is obviously no a day a Fallen Angel would like.
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It is also a part of the William the Cognisby poem. But as is with any ancient badly translated poem, there was actually no Tiffany at all. It's just some rando a Scottish translator put there because 'lol, why not?'.

Ah, Medieval sources. You love to see it.
 
[X] Nope, nope, nope, not listening to Fallen Angels, especially when they sound reasonable

Ah, a typical Demon power play.
 
[X] Hear her out, it's not like she can make you do anything

Rather than seeing this as a chance to get Dresden to pick up the Coin, I see this as a chance to pull Lash off to the side of the Angels earlier. If she's a component Soul of the true Lasciel then she'll have more agency than the Lash from the books, but she'll also be bound tighter I believe. She could do with more than 1 person pulling on the Light's side of the tug of war.
 
[X] Hear her out, it's not like she can make you do anything

"Once per scene The Infernal may replenish one point of Essence whenever she learns secretive or forbidden lore of the supernatural world, or binds an unwholesome being into her service."

It's free Essence!
 
Might as well hear what she has to say. We can always disregard it if we disagree with her or don't believe what she says.

[X] Hear her out, it's not like she can make you do anything
 
[X] Hear her out, it's not like she can make you do anything

I wonder what secrets we could rip from her with the crown? Her greatest fear? Her greatest love? What she most wishes we would not know?

And then if she doesnt count as lasciel we might be able to do it again.
 
Fallen are infamous for their manipulative ability. Letting them talk is only a little less dangerous than letting them cast. We aren't ready for that.

[X] Nope, nope, nope, not listening to Fallen Angels, especially when they sound reasonable

She's already lying by the way; as noted in canon, Harry could have picked up the kid instead of the coin. Not that I expect her to tell the truth, but she's clearly running a con right now that benefits from Molly engaging while she's still mortal enough to sway easily.

Valkhir said:
Next time we see a Warden, let's use Crown of Eyes on his sword and find out how to make one. Even if we can't do it ourselves we can have Harry or some Warlock minion do it later.
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That's probably not in the cards. I see no reason that we couldn't learn that information but the crafting of independently and persistently magical items, especially high grade ones, is hard.

The person making one died before Harry joined the Wardens, and he just never got one or any equivalent kit. That includes a period of time in which he was fighting a war with them, and years of time after that.

There are some good reasons why this wasn't as dumb a plan as that would be for muggles, but it still illustrates the point.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Fallen are infamous for their manipulative ability. Letting them talk is only a little less dangerous than letting them cast. We aren't ready for that.
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Impervious Primacy?
The Infernal refuses, with utter and immovable implacability, to permit any force in the cosmos to gainsay her will.

System: Any attempt to cause or force the Infernal to betray, undermine, or abandon her Intimacies automatically fails. Furthermore, she may reflexively spend 1 Essence or 1 Willpower to become immune to all thought and emotion-altering magic for the rest of the scene.
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While the second half is against magical manipulation, the first half should apply to regular social attacks as well.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Fallen are infamous for their manipulative ability. Letting them talk is only a little less dangerous than letting them cast. We aren't ready for that.

[X] Nope, nope, nope, not listening to Fallen Angels, especially when they sound reasonable

She's already lying by the way; as noted in canon, Harry could have picked up the kid instead of the coin. Not that I expect her to tell the truth, but she's clearly running a con right now that benefits from Molly engaging while she's still mortal enough to sway easily.


That's probably not in the cards. I see no reason that we couldn't learn that information but the crafting of independently and persistently magical items, especially high grade ones, is hard.

The person making one died before Harry joined the Wardens, and he just never got one or any equivalent kit. That includes a period of time in which he was fighting a war with them, and years of time after that.

There are some good reasons why this wasn't as dumb a plan as that would be for muggles, but it still illustrates the point.
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It should be noted that when Harry tells Michael what he did in canon, not only does it turn out Michael knew, but he is also grateful, he does not see some kind of intrinsic failure in grabbing for the coin and not the kid, just a man acting on sheer panicked instinct when he saw a two year old facing a fate worse than death.
 
Artemis1992 said:
While the second half is against magical manipulation, the first half should apply to regular social attacks as well.
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That only applies to social attacks that attempt to change her intimacies. That doesn't mean Lash can't make social attacks to convince us that particular actions would benefit the people we have them with, or just use them as an in to gain trust so she can talk us into doing things that don't touch on an intimacy.

She could also be digging for information working with her gives her opportunities to get us to do things that can act as observable tests for the exaltation.

My guess is that her current plan is mostly focused on gathering information and building a connection so that she can exploit it later rather than trying to get us to fulfill a particular goal though.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Impervious Primacy?

While the second half is against magical manipulation, the first half should apply to regular social attacks as well.
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The key word here is forced as in if you think of an act as betrayal you cannot be made to do it, but the charm is not going to magically make sure that every decision you make with regards to your intimacies is positive in the long run. Molly still has to make a judgement call on that.
 
DragonParadox said:
It should be noted that when Harry tells Michael what he did in canon, not only does it turn out Michael knew, but he is also grateful, he does not see some kind of intrinsic failure in grabbing for the coin and not the kid, just a man acting on sheer panicked instinct when he saw a two year old facing a fate worse than death.
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True, but Micheal doesn't know what's going on inside of Harry's head. We know from Dresden's conversation with goatee!Harry/his id that the instinct in question was partially motivated by wanting the power. Which is something Lash should know.
 
BronzeTongue said:
True, but Micheal doesn't know what's going on inside of Harry's head. We know from Dresden's conversation with goatee!Harry/his id that the instinct in question was partially motivated by wanting the power. Which is something Lash should know.
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Ah, but that is not Harry, that is Harry's subconscious, here of all places the two are distinct. When she says Harry she means the part of him that is presently exploring the USS Hellfire which she made clear at the start of the conversation. She is not doing anything as crude as lying is my point.
 
If we're going to use the crown here I'd be tempted to go for something more general than specific tactics since the information could be useful in other contexts.

Something like "what did Lasciel Fall for?" Could tell us a lot about her and the fallen in general. Though I guess we could also try asking something like that about their faction as a whole.
 
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