Will the mystic collapse rules still apply here? They seem to be based on paradox stuff from WoD, but DF magic doesn't have that flaw. Dresden could immolate a demon on national television and the consequences would be mostly political.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
No mystic collapse no, you can totally make a magic sword and it will keep working though the native magic of the age, particularly water magic will be able to wear them away. You are working off guesswork and how the rules used to be who knows how many turnings of the wheel away.
Yeah the crafting doesn't really look worth it compared to spending time and EXP on other stuff for me, so I'll wait and listen to how many people want it anyway. Hopefully we can get our stuff up and running first.
But, on a different note...
Starborn, Sidereals etc. I nearly want to say that Starborn may be the result of some insanely degraded Astrological working to fuck up Outsiders, like some people in Creation just had Destiny.
I don't know if the timeline checks out, though thinking about there is zero reason to believe other Exalts may not have been around at some point, similarly locked away but freed, even if it was not one big go like the Jade Prison.
The silver shine of the stars, and the candle reminds me of Lunars, but that's not a big surprise. If Outsiders, who are kind of like Unshaped, are the target who better to base it on than the Lunars who are supposed to be border-guards and Stewards of Creation?
This is some wild speculation, but the worst that can happen is I'm wrong, and soulgazes (even if you dont know what a symbol means) and Starborn (which we know barely anything of) stuff are usually important, even if you dont know how if you see something.
But, on a different note...
Usually, I wouldn't really give this a lot of thought, but stars are pretty important in both settings.
Starborn, Sidereals etc. I nearly want to say that Starborn may be the result of some insanely degraded Astrological working to fuck up Outsiders, like some people in Creation just had Destiny.
I don't know if the timeline checks out, though thinking about there is zero reason to believe other Exalts may not have been around at some point, similarly locked away but freed, even if it was not one big go like the Jade Prison.
The silver shine of the stars, and the candle reminds me of Lunars, but that's not a big surprise. If Outsiders, who are kind of like Unshaped, are the target who better to base it on than the Lunars who are supposed to be border-guards and Stewards of Creation?
This is some wild speculation, but the worst that can happen is I'm wrong, and soulgazes (even if you dont know what a symbol means) and Starborn (which we know barely anything of) stuff are usually important, even if you dont know how if you see something.
She does. Harry has had a close shave with death every 3 months or so.
She wants to mitigate that and so do we.
She ALSO wants him to take the coin, but thats a slow seduction
Get the training charm and put Harry thou some good old hellfire training.
I think that one turns people into bakemono?
This is Harry, he'd just find a bigger pileup.
Its like his Motivation or something. Think the strategy might be to give him a dependent so he has problems not solvable by dying heroically. Either that or someone willing to follow him into the most insane furballs, so he's at least careful not to drag a friend to death.
Creatures of darkness so eh. That is just something we are going to have to deal with as a lot of charms do that.
Yeah, but she also has to know how Molly feels about Harry. Lash doesn't need to do anything to get what she claims she wants, so she must at least partially want something else.
Vote closed, looks like we are listening to the shadow of the Fallen. You are definitely getting that essence from the urge as well as an interesting conversation.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, I'd never consider this if we didn't have Impervious Primacy Mantle, which is a straight up "Nobody can violate your free will without your consent", power. None of that "Seven words to hack someone's brain down a course of no return or put them back on the right path" nonsense.
But yeah, keep in mind that WoD works on different magic rules than Dresden Files, it does not have "You can't have cool things" baked in at the bones, as there's still plenty of magic to be found in it and reality doesn't just throw it out by definition. It'd be weird if we were limited to just aping the gimmicks of other splats and utterly incapable of making neat things, you know?
But yeah, keep in mind that WoD works on different magic rules than Dresden Files, it does not have "You can't have cool things" baked in at the bones, as there's still plenty of magic to be found in it and reality doesn't just throw it out by definition. It'd be weird if we were limited to just aping the gimmicks of other splats and utterly incapable of making neat things, you know?
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
I completely forgot that the mystic urge or whatever makes us want to figure out mystical mysteries and forgotten knowledge. Would we have had to make a willpower roll if we chose not to hear her out? If so we'd probably succeed because WP 9 but there's a chance we could have failed.
- Location
- florida
This is pretty great question, and we should go right for the throat in turning Lasciel.
"How do we convince this person to join our side?" Is pretty tasty.
*sigh* He really is.
Her being completely genuine and honest here about trying to keep Harry alive here could be a danger as well.
She might be confident enough in her ability to corrupt him, but not in her ability to keep him alive.
If she decides to ping us for that...
Though this also might be an oblique attempt to get us killed by throwing us at the threats harry usually faces.
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Also crafting is going to be less screwed! Hooray!
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- Location
- florida
Is he gonna tell us what he saw in our soul?
Good question. Reciprocity, then? That's a fine value to base it on.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Molly: "Gotta admit, I was surprised to learn that you've got an attractive woman with great fashion sense trapped in the basement of your soul. Kinky!"
Arc 0 Post 15: Of the Affairs of Wizards
Of the Affairs of Wizards
5th of July 2006 A.D.
There is a part of you that urges to just go, just run. It's what your dad would say and it's definitely what mom would say, but you are not just the girl who heard those warnings, you aren't even just the magician stumbling around in the dark. If you do not even have the courage to sit down and talk to the shadow of one of the Fallen than what business do you have fantasizing about how you are going to fight and win against the Denarians in the flesh. So you square your shoulders and give the unfairly fashionable Fallen your best 'don't screw with me' smile. "I'm listening."
For her part Lasciel does not smile as you had thought she might and there is no gleam of triumph in those emerald eyes. "I want you to refuse being a formal apprenticeship with Dresden and the Doom of Damocles that would doubtless come of it if the White Council even considers going though with it."
'Huh?' not being a very dignified response you just wait for her explanation.
"Harry is going to explain the Council when you get back, the Council and the Laws. Short version because our time is limited the White Council is the gathering of all wizards in good standing, it is an administrative word as much as a metaphysical one. If you have the breadth of power, but not the formal training they call you a sorcerer and if you break one of the Seven Laws you are called a warlock."
"The Seven laws are in order 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'," she sounds them off with portentous tone, slowly in spite of earlier saying she had to hurry "'Thou Shalt Not Transform Others','Thou Shalt Not Invade the Mind of Another', 'Thou Shalt Not Enthrall Another''..."
You start guiltily as your own misdeed comes into it. So it turns out it would be this White Council which will punish you somehow not the Chicago PD, which you are not... you do not think you aught to fight. You had hurt Rose and Nelson and they are like the wizard government. Do they have wizard jail you wonder.
Lasciel just keeps going and you have the odd though that this is what she might have sounded like before her Fall, you are not scared, but it is kind of dizzying to know you are in front of a being that had in someway stood in the presence of God, that was old beyond reckoning.
"'Thou Shalt Not Reach Beyond the Borders of Life', 'Thou Shalt Not Swim Against the Currents of Time' and finally 'Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates'."
You are about to ask what the Outer Gates are since that was the only one that wasn't clear when she continues: "To do do any of this by power of mortal sorcery is to alter subtly alter the foundations of your mind, making you more inclined to do so again, so the young magician who finds his power and wants to try a Jedi Mind Trick for real will eventually, after enough uses, of that power surround himself with mind thralls if left unchecked, it's an addiction."
All the times you had begged Rosie to stop using flash though your mind. "I can't Molly I can't." You shift uneasily in your seat and open your mouth to ask if there is like magic rehab, but Lasciel is still speaking.
"The White Council has only one punishment for warlocks, whether they have broken the Laws once or a thousand times, death."
"What the fuck!" the words burst from your mouth, then you blush, before realizing that a devil would not care about swearing.
"Yes quite, do you remember what I said about Harry's first teacher well Justin," she speaks the name in the tone of someone describing a particularly warty toad. "Wanted to make Harry oh and his first lover Elaine into thralls."
At any other time, in any other place the words 'lover' and 'Harry' next to one another would have your ears perking up like a Loony Toon, but you are still processing the whole 'The wizard government wants to summarily execute you' thing though... "How do I know you are not lying?"
Lasciel pauses and thinks, as though suddenly presented with a quandary, when she speaks finally it is in the more normal voice she'd used before. "Most of this you can check with Harry and for the rest of it well..." she waves a hand at you in a gesture that feels like it was made for a fan in some Parisian Salon. "You can always question your flighty spark of Intelectus . 'How did Lasciel lie to me?' and if I did you will know. "
"How do I know it will work on you?" you press, unwilling to just let her set the tone.
"I have just witnessed you pick out not one but two conversations between wizards of significant skill from across the world and the ages and you picked just the right ones that Harry would be able to infer an improvement to Soulgazing which was applicable to the place you were in. I am quite certain you can read my honesty if you so choose so it makes sense for me not to lie." For just a moment a shadow steals across her composed features. It almost looks like fear.
You should probably be feeling as satisfied as you are. She has some evil plan, she has some evil plan, you keep telling yourself, but you want to hear the story. "So about Harry?"
"Justin DuMorne enslaved Elaine and tried to do the same to Harry, he failed and so Harry fled, a dark spirit on his trail. Through the aid of one of the ladies of the Winter Court whom his mother had made matrina, ah sorry that is godmother he bested the spirit and returned to save Elaine..."
"He killed him," you cut in, the shape of the thing falling into place in your mind.
"Incinerated him," the Fallen Angel confirms grimly. "He did not then know of any Laws, why would DuMorne teach him?"
"But they... the White Council obviously did not kill Harry, so they understood."
"One of the senior wizards intervened in a procedure that is almost never used known as the Doom of Damocles, he managed to sway thee quarters of the Council for the task and he took Harry on as his apprentice. I think you might even have caught a glimpse of him."
You feel a sudden surge of gratitude to the scruffy bearded wizard, just went to show that what mattered is on the inside. "Why is is almost never used, I mean there have to be plenty of cases of people breaking the Laws in ignorance or just under extreme circumstances."
"Because the punishment is only deferred not abolished and should the student be found to have used Black Magic one more time both he and his teacher both are killed. Such is the mercy of the White Council. It is often the Wardens who make that judgement, those who are judge jury and executioner and who have seen every manner of Black Magic excess time and time again. You can imagine they err on the side of rigor over mercy..."
It occurs to you that you are listening to the moral judgement of a devil, one of the Fallen for whom no evil is too great. "Why are you judging them?"
"Morality can be understood as an intellectual exercise, anthropologists do it all the time when dealing with their subjects," Lasciel counters. "But if you will not believe me believe your... God." the word seems to physically pain her to hack up, but she manages it, bringing a black handkerchief to her bloodied lips. "What is the purpose of the Knights of which your father is one"
"No..." you shake your head disbelieving. "You are not using that."
"I am as you so succinctly put it batting for the other side. The ability to be a hypocrite is one of the few perks I have."
You are about to say something snippy, but she just looks quietly sad. What good would it do to harp on? She has been punished far beyond what you could imagine.
"The purpose of the knights is to thwart the will of the Fallen and to save mortals from out machinations, including those we take as hosts. Among those are humans who wield sorcery of their own will and by our teaching and I assure you Nicodemus and Anduriel have no interest in the Seven Laws. "
"No kidding," you snark at her dry tone, almost feeling the edge of a smile on your face before you force it down.
"So it seems to be the opinion of One whom you revere that those the warlocks are not beyond redemption and yet behold the punishment is one for all and it is the one which cannot be reversed. Is that just by your lights Molly?"
You are silent for a long moment, hoping to stubborn her. When that does not work you sigh. "It's not, but I also don't want to die so I am not a neutral party."
Lasciel laughs, not like a giggle, but a full throated laugh. "You are delightful. Hopefully self-preservation leads you along the same path." Then in a more serious manner she adds."The Doom has been removed from Harry six years ago, but in those six years he has made many enemies among the council, including by being part of the inciting event of the War with the Red Court, many of the wizards on that Council will have lost friends and loved ones as part of the war and they will blame Harry. I hope you understand now why I asked you to refuse an apprenticeship and to see him placed again under the Doom."
For a long while there is quiet, broken only be the sound of the wind far off. "Here I'd hoped you would ask me to go fight monsters with him."
"You will do that anyway," she points out. "Me asking you would just make you more likely to second guess yourself."
She has a point. "So what am I supposed to..." you cut yourself off, reminding yourself of who you are about to ask advice. Yet... she is a skilled in this and she is at least constrained not to lie to you outright.
Do you ask for Lasciel's advice on an alternative if you should do as she asks?
[] Yes, it is useful to know even if you do not do it
[] No, not worth the risk... it might make too much sense
OOC: And... done. I was not expecting this conversation to be so long until I started at it.
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Planting the idea to use our Crown on her for when she lied to us is 99% one of her plans or gambits.
We also said to Harry we can do it once per subject, and this would use it on a very limited thing.
We could ask how to turn her to our side, her greatest secret or weakness, etc instead, so its in her best interest to prevent that.
We also said to Harry we can do it once per subject, and this would use it on a very limited thing.
We could ask how to turn her to our side, her greatest secret or weakness, etc instead, so its in her best interest to prevent that.
- Location
- Germany
Well, we can confidently state that we are not quite a mortal practicioner beholden to the Laws anymore.
A wizard with soulgaze can check.
Normally that wouldn't make a lick of difference, most people who try that would be executed anyway, since they are at best a non-human danger still.
But we'd have our father and possibly Dresden's supporters speaking for us, so that might work?
A wizard with soulgaze can check.
Normally that wouldn't make a lick of difference, most people who try that would be executed anyway, since they are at best a non-human danger still.
But we'd have our father and possibly Dresden's supporters speaking for us, so that might work?
Just keep in mind they would have to roll against seeing an Infernal Exaltation too so there is a risk there.