The only way I see us making much in the way of social gains against Charity of all people is through blatant magical manipulation, or whatever Exalted BS we might be able to pull. She just doesn't have that sort of acceptance in her worldview. IIRC, in the books she barely accepted the idea of Molly learning regular mortal magic, so getting her onboard the Exalted train isn't going to come easy or quick.
Whatever we do, though, it needs to be true to the character of Molly as she is at this point in time rather than what makes the most sense to us, the questors. There will be time for that later, after she's had a chance to grow and develop as a character after this divergence.
Why is asking her about why she hates magic not a social gain for you?
Learning how people think and feel is important! It's the foundation of effective communication and would help us deal with our own issues with our mother and help her connect with us.
I am fine with people skipping it, but people not seeing that as Valuable is incredibly worrying. We are supposed to at least partially be a social build.
Not that big a deal, pretty sure it is even in the rules that if an exalted spends a few months in constant contact with someone, they just win at social. As no mortal can resist long term exposure to exalted level social.
The only Infernal Charm I can think of that would specifically help with this is...Glories That Never Were.
Which I didn't see in Kakuri and is thus probably just not in ExWoD.
It was an Ebon Dragon Charm with...every implication that carries though.
Kakuri doesn't have it, but it does have Golden Years Tarnished Black, which is one of its pre-requisites, so way later it should not be impossible to maybe recreate it also as a 5 dot. Wether that's actually a good idea is a different question.
It does illustrate Infernal social magic though.
Glories That Never Were
Cost:—(+1m)
Mins: Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Unreasoning Prejudice Infliction
Sometimes the Ebon Dragon is best served by whiter lies than himself, veiling inconvenient truths behind the mists of nostalgia. By paying an extra mote while using Golden Years Tarnished Black, the Infernal ruins the targeted memory in a much more unorthodox manner. The victim retains and idealizes everything she finds good about the memory. At the same time, she forgets everything bad about the topic and/or minimizes the importance of bad elements as the Infernal chooses.
For example, an aging Dynast can be made to remember the reign of the Scarlet Empress as a halcyon time of justice and peace, completely overlooking the tyranny and oppression of her totalitarian regime. A molested child can be made to adore her father once more. Most usefully, the Infernal can help a mortal enemy remember how much she enjoys his charming company and flattering praise, never mind those times he slept with her daughter, murdered her husband and burned down her house.
If the victim doesn't already have a positive Intimacy to a particular memory, whitewashing the recollection with Glories That Never Were instantly creates such an Intimacy with a Storyteller-approved emotional context chosen by the victim's player. An existing positive Intimacy becomes enchanted by the Charm. Healing memory damage and Intimacy gain inflicted by Glories That Never Were generally requires the same process as the basic function of Golden Years Tarnished Black (as modified by Unreasoning Prejudice Infliction). However, victims also add half their Willpower rating as an MDV bonus to resist all external attempts to weaken or remove the Intimacy associated with an idealized memory. This bonus reflects the way minds doggedly cling to delusions of better times in the bleak world that is Creation. Hope is often all people have, however false.
With Essence 4+, Glories That Never Were gets worse. If the bolstered positive Intimacy is removed by any means while its associated memory remains damaged, the victim experiences a sudden wave of despair as she comprehends the inherent ugliness of truth. This overreaction drags her mind to the opposite extreme like a swinging pendulum, changing the way her memories distort to match the base ruin inflicted by Golden Years Tarnished Black. What was pure good becomes hateful. Furthermore, a new enchanted Intimacy instantly forms toward the subject as per all rules of Golden Years Tarnished Black.
Edit: What I mean to say is...don't rely on Infernal Social on people you don't rule over (Lanka) or ...that.
Kakuri isn't the Ebon Dragon, but its the same style.
Edit 2: That's not to say it wouldn't be useful, even to Molly.
Bind and force demons to help and assist people, make them do good and periodically hit the with Glories and Golden Years. It would be an interesting use at least.
The funny thing is that blood apes are one of the more straightforward goon-types.
They're big, angry, and literally bloodthirsty. On top of that, if you want more blood apes for some god-forsaken reason, all you need are a set of needles, knowledge of where to stick the needles, and some way of convincing the murder gorilla not to maul your face off when you make them howl in such a way that the sound curdles into another extra-exploitable minion.
Agatas are super-cool because they're flying jewel wasps that are too pretty to smack, but they're also known to sometimes dump their riders mid-air because they got weirdly philosophical.
The only Infernal Charm I can think of that would specifically help with this is...Glories That Never Were.
Which I didn't see in Kakuri and is thus probably just not in ExWoD.
It was an Ebon Dragon Charm with...every implication that carries though.
Kakuri doesn't have it, but it does have Golden Years Tarnished Black, which is one of its pre-requisites, so way later it should not be impossible to maybe recreate it also as a 5 dot. Wether that's actually a good idea is a different question.
It does illustrate Infernal social magic though.
Glories That Never Were
Cost:–(+1m)
Mins: Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Unreasoning Prejudice Infliction
Sometimes the Ebon Dragon is best served by whiter lies than himself, veiling inconvenient truths behind the mists of nostalgia. By paying an extra mote while using Golden Years Tarnished Black, the Infernal ruins the targeted memory in a much more unorthodox manner. The victim retains and idealizes everything she finds good about the memory. At the same time, she forgets everything bad about the topic and/or minimizes the importance of bad elements as the Infernal chooses.
For example, an aging Dynast can be made to remember the reign of the Scarlet Empress as a halcyon time of justice and peace, completely overlooking the tyranny and oppression of her totalitarian regime. A molested child can be made to adore her father once more. Most usefully, the Infernal can help a mortal enemy remember how much she enjoys his charming company and flattering praise, never mind those times he slept with her daughter, murdered her husband and burned down her house.
If the victim doesn't already have a positive Intimacy to a particular memory, whitewashing the recollection with Glories That Never Were instantly creates such an Intimacy with a Storyteller-approved emotional context chosen by the victim's player. An existing positive Intimacy becomes enchanted by the Charm. Healing memory damage and Intimacy gain inflicted by Glories That Never Were generally requires the same process as the basic function of Golden Years Tarnished Black (as modified by Unreasoning Prejudice Infliction). However, victims also add half their Willpower rating as an MDV bonus to resist all external attempts to weaken or remove the Intimacy associated with an idealized memory. This bonus reflects the way minds doggedly cling to delusions of better times in the bleak world that is Creation. Hope is often all people have, however false.
With Essence 4+, Glories That Never Were gets worse. If the bolstered positive Intimacy is removed by any means while its associated memory remains damaged, the victim experiences a sudden wave of despair as she comprehends the inherent ugliness of truth. This overreaction drags her mind to the opposite extreme like a swinging pendulum, changing the way her memories distort to match the base ruin inflicted by Golden Years Tarnished Black. What was pure good becomes hateful. Furthermore, a new enchanted Intimacy instantly forms toward the subject as per all rules of Golden Years Tarnished Black.
That sounds like it could turn mom right back into a Warlock by altering all her memories of that period of her life into good ones.
Which is cool, but not the most productive option.
[X] Ask her why she hates magic so much (Empathy+Charisma)
-[X] "It's not like it's some coin I can just pick up and throw away if I have to." You add. "Even if I could put this particular deal down, that doesn't change what's already happened in the past--I don't think the option of completely turning away is there anymore, and even if it was, I'm not sure it'd be the right idea. All of this happened because I was being an idiot, because I didn't know what I was doing and thought that I did, and that's not going to change unless I decide to start paying attention and taking responsibility. But I don't want that to cut me off from you and everyone else either. So yeah, I'll go, we'll see what's going on, but if there isn't an easy solution, what happens then? Does the fact I have power now mean that I don't get to be with everyone?"
--[X] Use Excellency
---[X] If Charity clams up anyway, find out what her deal is with Crown of Eyes, this isn't the time for secrets anymore.
I think it's a pretty decent stunt, all things considered.
Er... guys Molly feels really guilty for the mind control at least when it comes to Rosanne, even if she had mind altering charms she would not use them on her mother.
That sounds like it could turn mom right back into a Warlock by altering all her memories of that period of her life into good ones.
Which is cool, but not the most productive option.
... guys Molly feels really guilty for the mind control at least when it comes to Rosanne, even if she had mind altering charms she would not use them on her mother.
OK, let's see how this goes. I will tell you now that you are basically turning one intimacy against the other as far as Charity is concerned, she loves her family, but she also has Magic (fear and hatred)
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jul 3, 2022 at 11:46 PM, finished with 85 posts and 11 votes.
[X] Ask her why she hates magic so much (Empathy+Charisma) -[X] "It's not like it's some coin I can just pick up and throw away if I have to." You add. "Even if I could put this particular deal down, that doesn't change what's already happened in the past--I don't think the option of completely turning away is there anymore, and even if it was, I'm not sure it'd be the right idea. All of this happened because I was being an idiot, because I didn't know what I was doing and thought that I did, and that's not going to change unless I decide to start paying attention and taking responsibility. But I don't want that to cut me off from you and everyone else either. So yeah, I'll go, we'll see what's going on, but if there isn't an easy solution, what happens then? Does the fact I have power now mean that I don't get to be with everyone?"
--[X] Use Excellency
---[X] If Charity clams up anyway, find out what her deal is with Crown of Eyes, this isn't the time for secrets anymore.
[X] Ask her why she hates magic so much (Empathy+Charisma) -[X] "What can I say to you that will make you believe that this isn't malicious, what can I say... I can't say anything that will change your mind because nothing can be convincingly said to you that you won't dismiss out of hand because you believe that I'm either not in control of my own actions or am being manipulated by something, so regardless of if you believe me I'm telling you that I'm in complete control of myself and this power, hell if needs be after all this fairy bullshit is dealt with we can have others verify but until then can you at least stop treating me like I'm sick or ill."
OK, let's see how this goes. I will tell you now that you are basically turning one intimacy against the other as far as Chatty is concerned, she loves her family, but she also has Magic (fear and hatred)
