The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

[x] Plan: Getting the new folk settled in
[x] Yes - Nendumir
[x] Yes - Grazur
[x] Yes - Garin

Cool quest, I do think the locals accepted us and we them a little too smoothly, but at the end of the day Elrond is a master diplomat, if anyone can finesse a dawi in diplomacy it's him.
 
What kind of infrastructure do you have in mind? Watchtowers at intervals to bridge the distance?
Something like that, ideally we would work together with the elves and humans to create a warning network like the beacons of gondor and Rohan.

We could also look into getting an underway passage with guard points at set intervals.

This could be a first step in trying to create not only a viable outpost but also a safe road for trade and information network.
 
Something like that, ideally we would work together with the elves and humans to create a warning network like the beacons of gondor and Rohan.

We could also look into getting an underway passage with guard points at set intervals.

This could be a first step in trying to create not only a viable outpost but also a safe road for trade and information network.
I was going to suggest an underway, but i thought you'd think I was mocking you.
Digging an underway, even a tiny one, over several hundred miles with a few hundred dwarfs is not feasible though:
Assume a dwarf walks 3 miles an hour for 10 hours a day, seven days a week, for three weeks (several weeks). That's 630 miles.
 
An underway like that one would be simply way to large for our current abilities.
It would take so much time that we should surerly find sulphur in our mines before.
 
A part of me wants to go searching Eriador and the Blue Mountains for ruins and treasures from older ages and recent but also older ones.
 
Once Grazur has those maps he might come back to us with more suggestions along those lines. I'd be ok sending people out to explore locations that don't have Balrogs in them.
 
Long Term Planning

I wanted to see what everyone thinks of our long-term plans. Currently we don't see a way of getting back to our homeland as such it seems reasonable to assume that we are trying to create a place for our Dawi to prosper for many generations to come. In my mind this includes the following:

  • Food & Shelter
  • Safety
  • Production & Research
  • Trade

Food and Shelter

Food and shelter seems fairly easy and we have most of this in place and we will add more as we gain more people. Here we should make a plan to diversify our food-sources so that we are not at risk in case of plagues or droughts. We should create some way of storing water as well. Currently we have or are building:

  • Western Extensive Farms (Noldor Vegetables) *
  • Eastern Extensive Farms (Dawi Grain) (Maybe we can rotate Dawi and Noldor Crops here?)
  • Northern Goatherd
  • Orchard *

  • Guest Shelter in Kazad Urbaz *
  • Guest Housing in Surface Hold *
  • Riding Grounds in Kazad Urbaz *
  • Stables in Surface Hold *

  • Crop Storehouse in Surface Hold
  • Ale Storehouse in Surface Hold
  • Sulphur Storehall in West Hold *
  • Under- Cropstorehall in Nothern Peak Underhall (Tear down and create Underway Hub?)

We need to have a look at our storage and move it around a bit to make the best use of the space we have and to have the storehalls close to our resources.

Safety
Safety can be split up into three main branches.

  • Armies
  • Fortifications
  • Force-Multipliers

In regards to armies our main goal will be to increase the amount of able-bodied Dawi and to equip them, this we will be able to do once we can smelt our iron and have our Runelord work his Runes.

In regards to fortifications we already have quite a lot but we are missing artillery and ideally more big runes, this should be our primary goal once we have our Engineer Hall, in part as a normal defense but primarily as dragon-defense. I would like to see a barracks and armory in every Hold to make sure we can react to a threat from any direction and can fall back to any position in the Karak. We should also look into creating a safe route to any outposts we create like the Sulphur-Outpost, for example beacons like the beacons of Gondor and regular checkpoints. This would not only protect us but also enable a safe route for trade. Maybe look into creating an underway that can be used as an escape route. Currently we need an armory and barracks in Kazad Urbaz and the West Peak. Ideally in the Surface Hold as well but I don't think we have room.

Force-Multipliers is where we can really shine, we have access to things this world has never seen in the form of our Runes and Gunpowder. It is imperative that these secrets do not fall into the wrong hands. Can you imagine an army of Orcs with guns or what Sauron could do with perverted Dawi Runes? It would spell our doom for sure. As such I propose that we never trade these technologies but to our most trusted allies and only if there is no other alternative. We should focus our research and production to create static defenses with Runes and gunpowder first before we equip our throngs so as to minimize the risk of these technologies falling into the wrong hands.

Production & Research
We are well on our way here, we are creating many of the halls we need and we mostly lack basic resources like iron or wood but we are working on that. Once we have a steady supply of resources we can work on advanced arms, and once we have more Runesmith apprentices we can work on creating more runes/rune-combinations.

My main proposal here is that we diversify our holds, create a theme for each hold. For Example: The Western Hold is quickly becoming our hub for Engineering and Guns, we could probably move our workshop, smelting and forging here as well. The main risks of doing this would be that in case we loose on hold to an enemy it could cripple our economy/production capability. It could also create tensions and groupings among our clans but since we are the only Dawi here I see this as a small risk.

If we decide to separate the holds by theme, I propose an additional vote @Warkeymon to decide what goes in which hold.

I also suggest we move the housing of each clan to the respective holds as well as having some food/water storage and a tavern in each hold.

Trade
This is also well on its way, but I suggest doing more work in Kazad Urbaz to create a flourishing hub of trade. My main goal here is what I already described in "Safety", create a safe route where merchants can travel that goes through our hold, we can thereby lure traders to us that originally want to trade somewhere else simply because the safe roads go by our holds.

Conclusion
My main conclusion is this:

  • Separate holds by theme
  • Guard or force-multipliers
  • Focus on setting up artillery and big runes to guard against dragons
  • Move storage to make the best use of our space
  • Create a safe route for trade and our outposts
  • Make a list of halls that we want in every hold
I was going to suggest an underway, but i thought you'd think I was mocking you.
Digging an underway, even a tiny one, over several hundred miles with a few hundred dwarfs is not feasible though:
Assume a dwarf walks 3 miles an hour for 10 hours a day, seven days a week, for three weeks (several weeks). That's 630 miles.
Haha I wouldn't think you were mocking me but yeah, once you put it that way it's clear it's too big an undertaking now, we will have to revisit it in the future.
 
Last edited:
If we decide to separate the holds by theme, I propose an additional vote @Warkeymon to decide what goes in which hold.
I think we'll have a short time skip at about turn 25 once the next generation has had time to settle in and you'll vote on the end set up of each hold-area and Urbaz as in relocating halls rather than building new things. Then we'll move from there to a more outpost/mega-project focused turn system.
 
Why rotate Noldor and Dawi crop in a field if the other field is kept always with Noldor crops?
I hate the guest housing in the surface hold, it is a migthy waste of space wood and dice.
The storehalls are already close to the resources, except the storehalls who have been designed to be used in the case of a siege.
The undercrop storehall is there for a siege.
There is no water consuption meccanic only ale one, a water storehall would be a waste.
Beacons need to be manned, unaccetable for the sulphur way to much distance, unnecessary for Urbaz.
Baracks are kinda misnomed, here they are a place to put Dawi without a big clan, it doesn't really take part in the defense.
Armoury in the surface hold is a waste of space, our throngs spend most of their time on the walls armed and guarding.
No problem with an armoury for evry peak but it is the lowest of priority to me.
Our runelord isn't Snorry, we will not get enough runic weapons to equip our armies except heroes.
We already decided to specialize the peaks, Jreengus is already doing it, moving facilities already built is also a big waste of dice, giving themes is fine, being hard about it no, no need for a vote it would just make stuff more complex and less flexible for no reason.
Our tavern is huge for a reason, one for evry peak is a waste of dice, this is the kind of neat stuff we could do after we have done evrything we could possibly need.
Also as you said theming to hard a peak is dangerous, and gives no benefit.
The general storing place is supposed to be under the valley, since there will be no door in it if an enemy has reached the place likely we have already lost.
Warkey ninjad me, not moving halls and not writing detailed list are something to avoid with our current 1 year sistem.
With time skips in place it does make sense.
 
I think we'll have a short time skip at about turn 25 once the next generation has had time to settle in and you'll vote on the end set up of each hold-area and Urbaz as in relocating halls rather than building new things. Then we'll move from there to a more outpost/mega-project focused turn system.
Sounds good!

Another question I wanted to run by you: Can we rotate the crops we farm between Dawi and Noldor crop or even split the farm in two?

Why rotate Noldor and Dawi crop in a field if the other field is kept always with Noldor crops?
Currently we have an Orchard and Noldor Vegetable but we don't have Noldor Crops.

I agree that it's best to do it in a time-skip and that we vote on what goes where then.

Why would we need crop storage in the underhold if we will already have storage under the surface hold. As you point out, if we don't have an entrance there enemies have to go through the front anyway.

Again, this is supposed to be a discussion about our long-term plans, not something we try to do next turn. Of course we can't build all the beacons in the next turn but it might be something we want to plan for now. To have an idea of what we want to do instead of just building everything. Once we have the Outpost-megastructure system in place it makes more sense to go into the specifics, this was just supposed to be a discussion about which direction we want to move in

I hate the guest housing in the surface hold, it is a migthy waste of space wood and dice.
Where are the Eotheod supposed to live?

Our tavern is huge for a reason, one for evry peak is a waste of dice, this is the kind of neat stuff we could do after we have done evrything we could possibly need.
Dawi would have to walk quite a ways to get to our tavern. Doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint for me not to have a tavern in every hold.

Baracks are kinda misnomed, here they are a place to put Dawi without a big clan, it doesn't really take part in the defense.
Fair point.
 
Last edited:
My main proposal here is that we diversify our holds, create a theme for each hold. For Example: The Western Hold is quickly becoming our hub for Engineering and Guns, we could probably move our workshop, smelting and forging here as wel
I don't think we should move the smelting or forging halls. We went all out for them where they are and right now they are next to the clanhall of the clan that uses them (the Warsmiths) we could move the warsmiths clan halls too but then we would be moving the royal clan away from the thronehall.

In my mind I have the North peak as being the war peak with the barracks, armoury training hall forges and stuff in it. I'm trying to turn the west peak into a Crafts district with the Engineers Stonemasons and Carpenters. Then the east peak would become the food/drink peak with the Farmers and Brewers. I don't know what to throw in the south peak though.

I hate the guest housing in the surface hold, it is a migthy waste of space wood and dice.
It won't cost wood because we have excavation dice and can use stone instead of wood. I will agree that I'm not thrilled about the space/dice requirements but we promised it to the King so I don't really see it as optional.

Why would we need crop storage in the underhold if we will already have storage under the surface hold. As you point out, if we don't have an entrance there enemies have to go through the front anyway.
It's unclear from this if you're aware that we already have crop storage in the underhold. We built it there because we didn't have hall space available elsewhere when we built it. I absolutely want to move it to the valley hold when we have free dice though, as the current storage only holds 50 crop and can't have any addons like huge and fortified.
 
I don't think we should move the smelting or forging halls. We went all out for them where they are and right now they are next to the clanhall of the clan that uses them (the Warsmiths) we could move the warsmiths clan halls too but then we would be moving the royal clan away from the thronehall.

In my mind I have the North peak as being the war peak with the barracks, armoury training hall forges and stuff in it. I'm trying to turn the west peak into a Crafts district with the Engineers Stonemasons and Carpenters. Then the east peak would become the food/drink peak with the Farmers and Brewers. I don't know what to throw in the south peak though.

It's unclear from this if you're aware that we already have crop storage in the underhold. We built it there because we didn't have hall space available elsewhere when we built it. I absolutely want to move it to the valley hold when we have free dice though, as the current storage only holds 50 crop and can't have any addons like huge and fortified.
I like your how you separated the holds, i agree with your reasoning. South hold could become a spiritual center maybe? Not moving the smelting and stuff makes sense.

Regarding the crop storage my point was to move it from the underhold, I agree with you completely to move it under the surface hold.
 
Can't move the spiritual stuff, sure the temple and the runesmith stuff can be moved easly, but the door of our burial chamber has the rune of gazul in it.
Not really enough hall to make a peak alone with just the temple and runelord and co.
Maybe we move the hospital also?
 
If we can't really move the spiritual stuff, what do you think about gyro copter hangars? If/when we get them ofc

Maybe we could also make it into an underway hub if we ever get one. Rain down fire from above and below kind of deal.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if we could make a master rune of mithril I kind of have omake idea for it but we don't have the stuff for our runelord cane test
 
Wouldn't the west peak be best suited for the gyro?
Since it has all the engeniering?
I mean fortified underway should be possible anyway, i think we should wait and see how much space we end up occuping, maybe we will found ourself too crammed with only 3 peak, the underway will realisticaly only lead to Urbaz and nowere else so I do not think would require more of the already huge defenses we are very close to have for the underground.
Fool do it, it could be a parallel reality stuff, if it is cool it migth persuade quester or give ideas to warkey.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't the west peak be best suited for the gyro?
Since it has all the engeniering?
I mean fortified underway should be possible anyway, i think we should wait and see how much space we end up occuping, maybe we will found ourself too crammed with only 3 peak, the underway will realisticaly only lead to Urbaz and nowere else so I do not think would require more of the already huge defenses we are very close to have for the underground.
Agreed that it makes sense in the west peak but I'm also worried about space. But yeah we have to wait and see, I'm just excited about the idea of massive hangar doors opening up and a fleet of gyros flying out to fight a dragon or nazgul or something xD
 
In my experience, the not steam gun of a gyro will down a fell beast very quickly, a gryobomber main weapon also.
Not big enough, immagine a fleet of thunderbarges.
 
The tabletop lore and videogame one.
One of the gun on the gyro can punch a hole trougt an ogre, a fell beast doesn't have much armor, so it should die pretty quickly to those weapons.
By the way the sterotype of Italians abusing the congiuntion a when speaking in english is true, I keep changing lots of them evry time i spell chek my posts.
 
Last edited:
I remember the QM saying that gyrocopters are beyond the ability of our loremasters (and therefore, also the enginiers).

Also, in my TT experience, the gyrocopters are a good contender to most annoying unit in the game, only superated by the lizardmen's skinks.
 
Back
Top