Remove ads

The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

Reader mode
argenten said:
The issue here isn't that Thrain took *just* the jewels, but all the other treasure too. Yeah Fram offered a mocking response with the teeth necklace but in this case we'll need to frame it carefully to not trigger his gold madness.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Like I said, Dawi retribution is not proportionate. The Grobi killed a few dozen of our warriors, we killed thousands. A single merchant steals one coin from you, we level his whole city. When we see a huge pile of gold before us do you really think we won't retrieve it as well as part of our righteous retribution? If we are to pass accurate judgement, we have to understand Dawi mentality.
 
AzureShogun said:
What are demographics like for our Hold right now? The Throngs have discrete numbers, but I'd be interested to know how large the other clans are, breakdown of age-groups and stuff like that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A Clan has 1 or 2 Elders who are responsible for handing out Reckonings within the Clan and are generally the leading example of their Clan craft. Then you'll have maybe ten Elders, or particularly old Longbeards close enough to be treated like it, who will be spread across the specialisations of the Clan so you can train new Beardlings into those specialisations.
There's then about a hundred Longbeards, three hundred Greybeards and two hundred Beardlings. Garazi will vary a bit between clans, Farmer and Brewer Clans tend to have more than Miner and Warrior Clans. But you get about a hundred of them per clan as well. So a Clan has about 500 adults and about 100 children at the moment.
 
Sertorius said:
Like I said, Dawi retribution is not proportionate. The Grobi killed a few dozen of our warriors, we killed thousands. A single merchant steals one coin from you, we level his whole city. When we see a huge pile of gold before us do you really think we won't retrieve it as well as part of our righteous retribution? If we are to pass accurate judgement, we have to understand Dawi mentality.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Except, even if I were to accept that leaning into the caricature take...we're not dealing with Dawi. We are dealing with Dwarves. Who have a very different culture and history, so we're going to also need to understand their mentality too. And the Dawi are actually rather level when it comes to repaying Grudges not borne of blood or death. Fram did not slay dwarves, he did not invade a Khazad or hold...at most he slew a dragon and claimed its horde all his own, and when asked for Dwarvish treasures, he gave a 'gift' as much scorn as it was mocking...so yes, even by Dawi standards, it was excessive.
 
Sertorius said:
Like I said, Dawi retribution is not proportionate. The Grobi killed a few dozen of our warriors, we killed thousands. A single merchant steals one coin from you, we level his whole city. When we see a huge pile of gold before us do you really think we won't retrieve it as well as part of our righteous retribution? If we are to pass accurate judgement, we have to understand Dawi mentality.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

But Dawi are also honorable to a fault. They will not let a boon go unanswered, they honor their oaths and respect their alliances. They reward their friends and fight against impossible odds to fulfill what was promised, it pains them not to. That is why the Dawi will lavish great rewards on those who aid their kin, supporting them for many generations.

So while a Dwarfs wrath can be disproportionate, so can their friendship.

Also, alot of the stories of Dawi destroying a fortress without good cause are exaggerated. Like that time they destroyed a fortress for being shortchanged, they did ask for the missing money first and where mocked and scorned for it. Only after that slight did they dismantle the fortress.
 
Last edited:
argenten said:
Except, even if I were to accept that leaning into the caricature take...we're not dealing with Dawi. We are dealing with Dwarves. Who have a very different culture and history, so we're going to also need to understand their mentality too. And the Dawi are actually rather level when it comes to repaying Grudges not borne of blood or death. Fram did not slay dwarves, he did not invade a Khazad or hold...at most he slew a dragon and claimed its horde all his own, and when asked for Dwarvish treasures, he gave a 'gift' as much scorn as it was mocking...so yes, even by Dawi standards, it was excessive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would point out that they didn't ask for just the dwarvish treasure. They said that they're property was among the hoard and were demanding the hoard in it's entirety.

If they were just asking for, and took, what was theirs there wouldn't be this much of a problem. Instead they demanded and took all of it.
 
You guys forget one thing.

Even if these Dwarves are different from us, they still will be judged not according to their standards, but to Dawi standards. We will put ourselves in their shoes and see, whether we would have done the same in their situation. And there is a good chance that would have been the case. That's all I'm saying.
 
Last edited:
I'm wondering if we can get the Naugrim to give up some useful information in the Misty Mountains by asking for tales and legends and such, playing on their ego and pride.

Sertorius said:
You guys forget one thing.

Even if these Dwarves are different from us, the still will be judged not according to their standards, but to Dawi standards. We will put ourselves in their shoes and see, whether we would have done the same in their situation. And there is a good chance that would have been the case. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Like the Noldor are judged as one would Elgi? These are not Dawi and it's clearly becoming dreadfully clear to the Dawi that is the case.
 
Last edited:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Like the Noldor are judged as one would Elgi? These are not Dawi and it's clearly becoming dreadfully clear to the Dawi that is the case.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That may be waaaaay more difficult to accept for the ultraconservative Dawi.

In any case, we will judge them according to Dawi standards, because they are the only standards we know and expect to be upheld. Really, anyone would do so, because that's the most logical thing to do. Not Umgi laws or Elgi laws, but Dawi laws are the only thing that applies. We are here for a Reckoning after all and whose law is that?
 
Lord of Udrabax
At Udrabax you spend some time conversing with the Lord of that Hall through Glorfindel. Write-In a topic be it from the Fated Place or Middle-Earth to discuss with the Lord of Udrabax.
[X] Write-In: Ask him of his clan and lineage's history, of the urk, grobi, and harbgrobi that plague these mountains. Speak of your slaying of the under city that was infested with the grobi so they might know that any such Grudges they bear against them can be struck out.

Glorfindel
Your journey saw plenty of time to speak with Glorfindel. Write-In a topic be it from the Fated Place or Middle-Earth to discuss with him.
[X] Write-In: Speak to him of the Great Eagles that circle your goat flocks, and of the one beardling that did good service in guarding a goat from them...if young enough to succumb to the allure of a youngling great eagle himself. Ask Glorfindel what he knows of the Gold Sickness these 'rings of sauron' cause, for if you are to mediate, you must be able to account for such alterations of the mind.

Thain son of Nain
You have been invited to stay in Silverplunge as a guest of Thain, son of Nain, and you might take the chance before returning home to speak with him again when he has calmed down. Write-In a topic be it from the Fated Place or Middle-Earth to discuss with him.
[X] Stay and Write-In:

"Greetings to you, Thain son of Nain, King of Khazad Dum. There is perhaps an error in translation on the matter. I do not seek to cajole you to into casting away what treasures are yours, nor supplant you from your Throne in your own Hold. I have come, because my kin and I have dealt with such as the Umgi Fram before. They are arrogant beyond their years, especially when they pull off such a feat as slaying a dragon, goes right to their beardling heads. I seek merely to prevent bad blood or lingering Grudges to settle when there is hope for a peaceful Reckoning. The Umgi wronged you, denied you the treasures that the fell beast Scatha and when you sought their restoration to you and your kin, he spat in your face with the 'gift' of teeth.

But did the beast known as Scatha the egregiously broad steal from others besides the Children of Durin? Would it not behoove those of wiser and elder years to show the Umgi how one *properly* verifies and returns a dragon's hoard to those it stole the wealth from? It would speak much to your wisdom and benevolence to meet with the Umgi even after they wronged you and to ensure that due recompense is granted, as well as showing the world that Dwarves will keep to the highest standards even when others fail.

Let your treasures remain in your vaults, guarded and treasured by your kin and kingdom once more. Any who claim gilt of Dwarven make can brooke naught but disappointment. Yet those treasures that Scatha tore from others, they might serve as a fine bequeathment to the Kin of Fram the Foolhardy Dragonslayer. Such fame and generosity will surely bring fresh trade and greater wealth to the Children of Durin as they revered not only for their sense of justice, but majesty. Let the Umgi keep their chastisement for the scorn they offered and leave with *some* of what they earned, if much less than they could have kept if they had simply returned the treasures of Khazad Dum to their true home."
 
Last edited:
Sertorius said:
You guys forget one thing.

Even if these Dwarves are different from us, they still will be judged not according to their standards, but to Dawi standards. We will put ourselves in their shoes and see, whether we would have done the same in their situation. And there is a good chance that would have been the case. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Agreed. And by Dawi standards they were a bunch of pricks.

Instead of just asking for what was theirs they demanded the hoard in its entirety. They offered no thanks for the slaying of the dragon or gifts for the deed. While they were offered a mocking gift it was one only slung at them after they demanded what was not theirs.

And then they decided to raid the town, killing its defenders and people, killing Fram, taking the entire hoard, and torching the town on their way out.
 
To clarify on the Reckoning. You'd be upholding Dawi standards of justice. Reckonings don't follow any set laws and so the traditions and laws of the Eotheod and Dwarves don't affect it because the Reckoning is the fair and just judgement of a Reckoner for that particular case. In this case that Reckoner speaks with the authority of a King.

When considering what Reckoning to give you'd be looking entirely with a Dawi mindset, although that does allow for being less stern to Beardlings and others who cannot help foolishness.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the elves have been nothing but helpful and cautious and bought themselves goodwill. The dwarves haven't really done that.
Admittedly we are going into their home and asking them why they're being greedy SOBs. We should probably ask if they did offer any sort of repayment for slaying the dragon, or finding the lost loot as a starting point.

If my family heirlooms were lost at sea before I was born and someone found them I wouldn't just expect to be given them for no reward. It'd be nice if they did but I wouldn't have that as my default expectation.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Bold, @argenten . May I ask for you to expound on your reasoning to say such? To Thain obviously, got no problem with the others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically...we're not dealing with a Dwarf in his right mind, at the very least it is gold sickness, at worst it's the Ring affecting his mind...so we got to both work around it and *with* it. We make it clear that we agree that the return of rightful treasures is a natural thing to desire, because it is, but also we can further use that to at least...bend the pov that returning the treasures of others will gain the Dwarves renown and wealth through trade.
 
argenten said:
Basically...we're not dealing with a Dwarf in his right mind, at the very least it is gold sickness, at worst it's the Ring affecting his mind...so we got to both work around it and *with* it. We make it clear that we agree that the return of rightful treasures is a natural thing to desire, because it is, but also we can further use that to at least...bend the pov that returning the treasures of others will gain the Dwarves renown and wealth through trade.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just hope Glorfindel is canny enough to not judge us.

[X] argenten
 
[X] Write-In: Ask him of his clan and lineage's history, of the urk, grobi, and harbgrobi that plague these mountains. Speak of your slaying of the under city that was infested with the grobi so they might know that any such Grudges they bear against them can be struck out. Ask about the second moon.


[X] Write-In: Speak to him of the Great Eagles that circle your goat flocks, and of the one beardling that did good service in guarding a goat from them...if young enough to succumb to the allure of a youngling great eagle himself. Ask Glorfindel what he knows of the Gold Sickness these 'rings of sauron' cause, for if you are to mediate, you must be able to account for such alterations of the mind.


[X] [Thain] Go after inviting a delegation to visit our hold.

The only omakes I'm considering writing right now is for THE BLOOD OF THUNGI to be thick af when we go looking for an apprentice and striking a big mithril vein.

Edit: Changed vote
 
Last edited:
If this fails expect us to call the king for a duel
[/QUOTE]

Why would we duel him?

Sure he's being a dick and has wronged the Umgi. But that doesn't mean that it is our wrong to right. It would likely be seen as presumptuous for us to try and do anything more than act as an arbitrator between the two parties. And even that is probably go ijng to be seen as sticking our beard where it doesn't belong even by our own Dawi.

If this grudge is unable to be settled it means just that. That the grudge will be carried forward by the descendants of both parties. We hardly need to right every wrong we come across. Especially when it is barely our business in the first place
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top