- Location
- Wall Gazing
[X] Plan Trimmed Arcologies
[X] Plan Happy Arcologies, Happy Life
Adding Trimmed Arcologies as an approval vote
[X] Plan Happy Arcologies, Happy Life
Adding Trimmed Arcologies as an approval vote
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
Hail Satan and his page of doom.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[grunt]
Not gonna lie, I still think the five-arcology goal is important. I understand all the explanations already given, but I'm going to be a pushy arcology advocate once we get out of the first couple of turns of madcap Resource restoration.
We NEED more than three, and frankly I think the main reason the politicians aren't making us promise more than three is because they're underestimating how unpopular it will be for the supply to remain low.
Not gonna lie, I still think the five-arcology goal is important. I understand all the explanations already given, but I'm going to be a pushy arcology advocate once we get out of the first couple of turns of madcap Resource restoration.
We NEED more than three, and frankly I think the main reason the politicians aren't making us promise more than three is because they're underestimating how unpopular it will be for the supply to remain low.
Isn't the point of orbital food production less about boosting our actual food production, and more about hardening orbital supply lines and making them less dependent on ground infrastructure?
Cause, it's one thing to say "we can get more food from ground farms", which is absolutely true, and another thing entirely to say "we no longer need the Earth to feed our orbital colonists," which is a huge milestone regardless of how much bulk they actually produce. Also freeing up lift capacity, but I think our current needs are negligible in that.
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We do need more housing, true. But honestly five BZ arcologies was the wrong way to go about it.
Right now, we need to finish the first BZ arcology ASAP. After that though, we need to focus on building enough spare housing capacity to get people out of the fortress towns and to build enough of a buffer to absorb more refugees while building the additional BZ arcologies. Which means a phase or two of YZ arcologies, or non-arcology BZ housing.
We could not afford to try to build a buffer if we are trying to pursue a five BZ arcology strategy, which would leave us at a knife's edge of almost running out of additional housing throughout the plan. Which is additionally problematic if we start gaining more than 2 refugees "points" per turn, or if NOD is able to destroy existing housing stock.
Right now, we need to finish the first BZ arcology ASAP. After that though, we need to focus on building enough spare housing capacity to get people out of the fortress towns and to build enough of a buffer to absorb more refugees while building the additional BZ arcologies. Which means a phase or two of YZ arcologies, or non-arcology BZ housing.
We could not afford to try to build a buffer if we are trying to pursue a five BZ arcology strategy, which would leave us at a knife's edge of almost running out of additional housing throughout the plan. Which is additionally problematic if we start gaining more than 2 refugees "points" per turn, or if NOD is able to destroy existing housing stock.
- Location
- Africa
people are going to hate that , like we might see riots levels due to the WTF levels of reaction as a lot of people have been putting up with shitty housing for years and no one wants to live in the yellow zone if they can help it plus no one living in the blue zone is going to accept being told to like in a yellow zone nor will people from the yellow zones who just got out of there accept being sent back either
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Missing the point a bit. YZ arcology isn't going to be something we are resettling people we already have into.
It's a buffer for YZ refugees to settle into, decent housing without expectations to immediately move on to Blue Zone.
It's in the flavor text for them, even.
- Location
- England
In fairness, we can still do five even if we don't promise to do five right now, something you've given similar sentiments to before yourself:
I know you've also said that you wanted five because it'd push the playerbase in a direction, but with the housing situation as bad as it is I'm not sure how bad of an issue it'll be.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Generally speaking, with the expected influx of refugees until we can get some buffer housing (better than low quality, but not as ritzy as BZ Arcologies and not as Logistics taxing as Duplexes) we will need to have those 5 stages of BZ Arcologies to resettle everyone out of low quality housing.
The other options for housing that doesn't suck is Duplexes (-- Logistics per stage), and YZ Arcologies (does not qualify as high quality but also, so far, has zero tax on our overall economy). Even assuming we elect to switch to Duplexes, right after building this round of BZ Arcologies, we will need to match them in Housing with 8 stages of Duplexes... For the cost of 16 Logistics, aka the entire payout of Integrated Cargo System.
The difference will be, at that point:
+32 Housing for Arcologies
-8 Energy for Arcologies
+16 Consumer Goods for Arcologies
2400 progress for Arcologies, at 15 R/die
+32 Housing for Duplexes
-16 Logistics for Duplexes
1440 progress for Duplexes, at 10 R/die
800 progress for Integrated Cargo System, at 15 R/die
+16 Logistics for ICS
- 2 Labor, - 2 Energy, - 2 Capital Goods for ICS.
So okay, I will be fair and say we need that 8 energy from somewhere, but that's half of next stage of Fusion Power Plants, 150 progress at 20 resources per die, a little bit pricier but not much longer in progress.
And then I say we need to be fair the other way around and look for Consumer Goods options, +16.
Hmmm. Probably from Wadmalaw Kudzu deployment, stage 2-ish. Assume 400 progress at 10 R per die, being generous and calling it a +8 Consumer Goods per stage (it is cheap, it grows E V E R Y W H E R E, and it is basically tea), with progress bar of 180, and Development action.
So Duplex project with support takes ~2640 total progress, against 2550 progress for Arcologies project. It takes options that are less resource costly, BUT it taxes Logistics heavily, unlike comparatively abundant Energy options for the Arcologies.
P. S. This isn't quite true for Seo because he is getting other options for Housing, updated ones.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If you want to harden our orbital supply chain, consider what you're hardening it against- a total failure of our ability to launch food into space, worldwide. Not so likely to become a problem.
Furthermore, we have other serious problems on our hands that are in their ways just as important as the "harden food supply" problem to get the space colonies self-sustainable. I'm not saying Shala should NEVER be done, but within the context of the Third Four Year Plan it doesn't make sense to do it for the stated reasons originally given in the posts I was debating.
I ran the numbers on this. Basically, duplex housing is just as bad, dicewise, as Blue Zone arcologies. The difference is that you have to spend X infrastructure dice for Y housing in the arcologies, whereas with duplexes you spend X infrastructure dice to get Y housing and the supporting Logistics.
There's just no point unless we find an amazingly cost-effective source of Logistics projects.
Now don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we could have a "build nicer commieblocks" option that wasn't outright shitty but was cheaper than arcologies. But we can't plan around options we haven't seen yet.
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan Trimmed Arcologies
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
I noticed, thanks, ran the numbers myself.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Plan Trimmed Arcologies
HailSatan Granger
Hail
staplesdex2
CLASSFIED
I don't know, reading the flavor text on the YZ Arcologies does say that it would help house the refugees, improve housing in the YZs over time, and indicate GDI's commitment in investing more in the YZs.
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- Location
- Wall Gazing
We need at least 26 housing if the refugee influx does not change. That would leave us with no spare housing what so ever, committing to 3 BZ Arcologies is the minimum. However, I would like to do four BZ Arcologies to give us a bit of breathing space on that front. Ideally we would do more then that but:
Total Infrastructure Dice For Plan: 5*16 = 80
| BZ Arcology Stages Completed | Progress Required | Approximate Dice Required* | Dice/Turn Starting Q1 2058 | Dice/Turn Starting Q1 2059 | Total Resource Cost | Energy Cost | Housing Built | Low quality Housing Occupied** | Spare Housing |
| 3 | 1391 | 20 | 1.25 | 1.67 | 300 | -6 | 24 | 40 | -2 |
| 4 | 1991 | 28 | 1.75 | 2.33 | 420 | -8 | 32 | 34 | 6 |
| 5 | 2591 | 37 | 2.31 | 3.08 | 555 | -10 | 40 | 26 | 14 |
| 6 | 3191 | 46 | 2.88 | 3.83 | 690 | -12 | 48 | 18 | 22 |
| 7 | 3791 | 54 | 3.38 | 4.5 | 810 | -14 | 56 | 10 | 30 |
| 8 | 4391 | 63 | 3.94 | 5.25 | 945 | -16 | 64 | 2 | 38 |
| 9 | 4991 | 71 | 4.44 | 5.92 | 1065 | -18 | 72 | 0 | 46 |
Interesting thing to note is if we didn't have any other commitments, and had the resources available, we could hypothetically finish the next 3 BZ arcologies in a year. Also interesting to note, even if we delayed investing in Arcologies until the start of 2059, which we shouldn't cause of the refugees we'll be getting in the meantime, we could invest a steady 3 dice per turn in arcologies and still complete the 5 Arcology stages by the end of the plan. Finally, a full investment in enough housing to get everyone, including the refugees, into BZ arcologies is technically possible this plan. The problem is we need Dice available for Logistics so we can get more resources and if something comes up, like Mecca/Medina did, we wouldn't be able to finish all of them.
I'm perfectly fine shooting for 5 arcologies, we NEED at least 3 Full Stop. But 5+ is well within our means. We will not be able to invest in planned cities, but we are not planning on investing in them anyway aside from finishing Medina. Our problem is not going to be needing spare Dice, our main problem will be to scrounge up enough spare resources to activate the Dice. This is especially going to be the case at the beginning of the plan, as Simon points out.
Most of our energy costs are going to be eaten up by Fusion, though we will likely need to build a set round of Fusion plants to provide Energy for the rest of the economy.
*At an average Progress of 70 per Die
**Housing figures are based on our position at the end of the coming plan with 32 incoming refugees
The problem with the analysis is that it assumes that BZ arcologies are our only option. Even discounting the other BZ housing options we still have YZ arcologies.
If our goal is to comfortably house all of our refugees, then YZ arcologies are currently the answer.
If our goal is to maximize the quality of life of lottery winners (and risking either letting refugees go unhoused, failing plan goals, or letting NOD grow stronger), then BZ arcologies are the answer.
Realistically, a mix is optimal. Build just enough YZ arcologies to have a comfortable buffer, and then focus our hosing efforts entirely on building BZ arcologies.
If our goal is to comfortably house all of our refugees, then YZ arcologies are currently the answer.
If our goal is to maximize the quality of life of lottery winners (and risking either letting refugees go unhoused, failing plan goals, or letting NOD grow stronger), then BZ arcologies are the answer.
Realistically, a mix is optimal. Build just enough YZ arcologies to have a comfortable buffer, and then focus our hosing efforts entirely on building BZ arcologies.
Vote closed
