Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Can we have some development options for the Middle East or central Asian blue zones. I don't think we have had any so far yet in this quest.
- Location
- The Underdark
You have seen a few for the middle eastern blue zone, but none for the Himalayan Blue Zone (aside from Karachi). I am aiming to fix that, but am also trying to juggle a lot of things, and it is hard to see good reasons to put big centralized development projects there, when it is inherently difficult to get out from there.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Not right now. Like some other people have said check back in two years. It's on my mind and I will look into getting those developed and deployed as soon as possible, but right now the plan is first deploy rockets and predator, then do shipyards and ASAT and maybe sensors and then when the new plan start doing shells and ablat since they are cheap 10 Resources per Die.
Also something to look into doing. Either end of this plan for some of it or after we rebuild our budget in the new plan.
Well, let's see if this works. If it does, it is a bit of a spoiler for the future of economic planning in the Global Defense Initiative.
GDI Treasury Strategic Planning Interface
Date
- Q2 2057
Resources: 635 + 5 in reserve (15 allocated to the Forgotten) (35 allocated to grants)
Political Support: 60
Free Dice: 6
Fusion Dice: 9 (+1 per turn)
Tiberium Spread
16.04 Blue Zone
4.96 Green Zone
22.13 Yellow Zone (88 points of mitigation)
56.87 Red Zone (61 points of mitigation)
Current Economic Issues:
Housing: Significant Surplus (+12) (28 population in low quality housing) (2 points of refugees)
Energy: Major Surpluses (+11) (+2 in reserve)
Logistics: Major Surpluses (+7)
Food: Major Surpluses (+12) (+8 in reserve)
Health: Substantially improved (+5) (2 consumed by emergency refugee healthcare)
Capital Goods: Major Surplus (+5)
Consumer Goods: Meeting Demand (+3) (+5 from private industry)
Labor: Gargantuan Surpluses (+30)
Tiberium Processing Capacity (1300/1480)
Yellow Zone
Water: Notable Surpluses (+11)
Status of the Parties
(strong support, weak support, weak opposition, strong opposition)
Free Market Party: 125 seats (0; 5; 25; 95)
Market Socialist Party: 331 seats (152; 129; 35; 15)
Militarist: 237 seats (37; 160; 20; 20)
Initiative First: 178 seats (0; 0; 74; 104)
United Yellow List: 73 seats (58; 15; 0; 0)
Starbound Party: 155 seats (73; 82; 0; 0)
Socialist Party: 50 seats (30; 18; 2; 0)
Developmentalists: 640 seats (350; 200; 90; 0)
Independents 11 seats
-Biodiversity Party (2 seats: Weak Support)
-Dominion Party (1 seat: Strong Opposition)
-Reclamation Party (5 seats: Weak Support)
-Homeland Party (3 seats: Weak Support)
Military Confidence
Ground Forces : Decent
Air Force : Decent
Space Force : Decent
Steel Talons: Low
Navy: Low
ZOCOM: High
Plan Goals
Capital Goods: 5 points remaining
Food: 10 (7) points remaining - [ ] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3)
With the majority of the easily accessible generation sites from Blue Zones accounted for, planning has moved towards more minor supplies, beginning to eke out every last bit of energy that can be harnessed. While less efficient, it is at the very least a smaller project.
(progress 154/300: 10 resources per die) (+++ Energy)
(progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (++Energy)
[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2)
Investing in constructing new arcologies reflects a major and ongoing investment in providing not only livable environments but genuinely pleasant ones. These facilities are not just about comfort however. If needed, these are the hardest structures politically feasible to build in the blue zones, and the most resistant to the spread of Tiberium.
(Progress 35/600: 15 Resources per Die) (++++ Housing, +++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy) (High Priority)
[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 3)
The current plan for fortress towns involves stringing them out along the offensive lines and supply lines that currently support Initiative advances across much of the world. Providing protection for the lines and supporting the continuing advance will be a necessity, especially as the Initiative moves ever further from existing depots and support structures.
(Progress 25/200: 20 Resources Per Die) (+++ Housing) (Supports Yellow Zone Intensification)
(Progress 0/250: 20 Resources per Die) (+++ Housing)
(Progress 0/300: 20 Resources per die (+++ Housing)
[ ] Yellow Zone Arcologies (Stage 2)
While there are no immediate commitments to complete more arcology programs, they are significant markers of GDI's investments into the Yellow Zones. With the security situation improving rapidly, more arcologies can be used to support refugees and increase the quality of housing across the yellow zones.
(Progress 0/170: 15 resources per die) (+++ Housing)
[ ] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 1)
With restoration of the rail network complete, a new round of construction can begin linking tracks and improving throughput by laying more direct lines between the often shifting nodes of the global logistics networks that supply the Initiative. The first phase of this is focused on the military lines, laying more direct routes from Blue Zone factories and ports, to the yellow zone towns and cities where most of the supplies are used.
(Progress 83/250: 15 Resources per die) (+++ Logistics)
(Progress 0/275: 15 resources per die) (+++ Logistics)
(Progress 0/300: 15 resources per die) (+++ Logistics)
[ ] Blue Zone Residential Construction (Stage 3)
The continued development of high density residential districts is further out from the city centers, and many of the jobs. While still by far the most efficient use of resources in terms of housing people, the design incurs other costs, primarily in the logistics strain that housing, feeding, and moving people in a reasonable amount of time across increasingly long commutes creates.
(Progress 8/180: 10 resources per die) (- Labor, - Logistics, ++++ Housing) (low priority)
[ ] Blue Zone Duplex Row Housing (Stage 2)
With initial row house development completed, further phases are well defined residential areas. Often known as bedroom communities, these provide a higher quality of life, although they do begin to substantially strain the transport links, as most of the workers have to commute into the cities in order to do their jobs.
(Progress 23/180: 10 resources per die) (+++ Housing, -- Logistics)
[ ] Integrated Cargo System
GDI has done a number of patchwork programs, ranging from civilian shipbuilding to rail, road and aircraft networks. However, a full integrated cargo system will bring previously unimaginable efficiencies to the cargo system. A combined system of shipping ports, rail lines, and aircraft can deliver anything, anywhere in the world with reasonable speed. While working within the political and physical realities of the post Third Tiberium War world means that it cannot work on the same efficiencies as the cargo systems of the late 20th century, it is as close as it is practical to get barring revolutionary new technologies.
(progress 0/800: 15 resource per die) (+++++ Logistics, -- Labor, -- Energy, -- Capital Goods)
[ ] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1)
GDI's fleets of Leopard shuttles has reached a point where at any given time some significant portions are sitting without mission payloads. By retasking them towards suborbital shuttles, able to reach anywhere in the world in a matter of hours at most, GDI can tighten the bonds between blue zones, and significantly cut travel times for critical supplies.
(Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) (++ + Logistics)
(Progress 0/250: 25 resources per die) (+++ + Logistics)
(Progress 0/200: 25 resources per die) (++++ Logistics)
[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4)
A major expansion of the city and the Tiberium Processing center would make Chicago GDI's central Tiberium processing center for North America, and begin converting the area around it. In effect a version of the New Eden project in miniature, it will be a major project, but at the same time, it will be a proof of concept for other planned cities around the world. Not just as beachheads, but as a place to develop wide ranging control networks.
(Can spend mixed Tiberium and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Tiberium) (Progress 3/720: 20 Resources per die) (++ Housing, --- Labor, -- Logistics, --- Energy) (+3 Red Zone Abatement, +3 Yellow Zone Abatement, +240 Tiberium Processing Capacity.)
(Progress 0/1440: 20 Resources per die) (+++ Housing, --- Labor), (+4 Red Zone Abatement, +4 Yellow Zone Abatement, +480 Tiberium Processing Capacity)
[ ] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1)
Formerly the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi is a prime location for being the Himalayan Blue Zone's primary connection to the outside world. Rather than relying on exposed train lines towards the Russian and Korean Blue Zones, Karachi would serve as a logistics hub, with a much shorter connecting line to the Himalayas, and a port complex. That port complex will service ships running to the Arabian, Australian, and New Zealand Blue Zones, improving connectivity and acting as a forward base towards securing the northern parts of India.
(Progress 0/80: 20 resources per die) (--- Labor) (Can spend mixed Tiberium and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Tiberium)
(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) ( + Logistics, ++ Housing, -- Labor)
(Progress 0/320: 20 resources per die) (++ Logistics, ++ Housing, -- Labor)
(Progress 0/640: 20 Resources per die) (+++ Logistics, +++ Housing, -- Labor)
(Progress 0/1280: 20 Resources per die) (++++ Logistics, +++ Housing, -- Labor)
[ ] Colombo Planned City (Phase 1)
While it may be premature, seizing Sri Lanka, and preparing a planned city for the island is the first step in reestablishing GDI's presence on India's coastlines, one of the largest areas in the world where GDI has not had a serious presence in decades. The planned city will provide a nearby logistics hub and strategic entrepot.
(Progress 0/100: 20 resources per die) (--- Labor) (Can spend mixed Military and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Military)
(Progress 0/200: 20 Resources per die)
(Progress 0/400: 20 Resources per die)
(Progress 0/800: 20 Resources per die)
(Progress 0/1600: 20 Resources per die)
*many results unknown*
[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3)
While the initial phase of construction has begun, and the region has at least the pretenses of military security, bringing birds from the bush into hand, and expanding reconstruction work into Mecca itself will bring both political and practical benefits.
(Can spend mixed Tiberium and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Tiberium)
(Progress 200/640: 20 resources per die) (-- Labor, - Logistics) (10 Political Support) (+2 Red Zone Abatement, +2 Yellow Zone Abatement, +5 RpT, +120 Processing Capacity)
(Progress 0/640: 20 resources per die) (-- Labor, - Logistics) (10 Political Support) (+2 Red Zone Abatement, +2 Yellow Zone Abatement, +5 RpT, +120 Processing Capacity)
*many results unknown*
[ ] Civilian Air Travel
With the C-35 and Carryall serving many of GDI's needs there is enough logistical slack to begin creating regular flights between major cities. This will be both politically popular and create some effective consumer goods through tourism.
(Progress 0/250: 15 Resources per die) (+++ ++ Consumer Goods, --- Logistics) (5 Political Support)- [ ] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Stage 3)
While the Initiative currently has surpluses of energy, expected development is likely to eat that within the year, so producing yet more energy and even more nuclear plants is a good approach.
(Progress 20/550: 10 Resources per die) (- Labor, +++++ Energy)
[ ] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants
First wave continuous cycle fusion plants are still somewhat under development. However, they are ready enough for mass roll out, with only a few kinks in the connection systems remaining before they can be linked to the grid as a whole.
(Progress 0/350: 20 Resources per Die) (+++++ Energy) (High Priority)
[ ] Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Stage 3)
Building additional distributed power production and a more redundant grid, plus a number of in-building battery banks will provide a power reserve that can serve even on an industrial scale. While it cannot serve as a replacement for major power stations, it can give some amount of flexibility in case of minor problems with the energy system.
(Progress 40/120: 5 resources per die) (++ Energy Reserve)
[ ] Yellow Zone Fusion Power Campaigns (Stage 1)
With fusion energy nearly ready to act as the primary means of powering GDI civilization, the plans for a renewable energy power network for the Yellow Zones has been abandoned. In its place, an array of synchronized cycle plants are planned in many of the Terminus cities to provide all of the high density power that they could feasibly need.
(Progress 0/350: 20 Resources per Die) (++++ Energy)
[ ] Personal Vehicle Factories
Even though GDI's modern cities are designed with the intention to be nearly, if not entirely, traversable by foot and mass transit options, there is still demand for various forms of personal vehicles. With some small modifications, there are a number of existing electric vehicle designs that could be used as the baseline to begin providing more people with better access to personal transport.
(Progress 0/250: 10 resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, --- Energy)
[ ] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4)
A Fourth stage of North Boston will be substantially more costly than the previous three stages combined. A massive new complex adjacent to the existing one will produce even more chips, and even more dedicated computing hardware, ranging from single integrated systems for extreme miniaturization, to single purpose microcontrollers and multi core processors. While expensive, this will bring with it a substantial surplus in some forms of capital goods, allowing for substantial investments in future projects.
(Progress 628/1200: 15 resources per die) ( +++++ Capital Goods ++++ Consumer Goods -- Labor --- Energy)
(Progress 0/2400: 15 resources per die) (++++++ Capital Goods, +++++ Consumer Goods, -- Labor, ---- Energy)
[ ] Tokyo Chip Fabricator (Phase 1)
With North Boston having entered full scale production, Tokyo is planned to be the next major complex. This chip fabricator is aimed towards supplying Blue Zones around the pacific with 5nm chips, much like Boston, although it will be more focused on consumer goods. Located near Tokyo harbor, the fabricator is going to be built on a similar schedule and scale to existing designs, rather than trying to leap ahead.
(Progress 0/125: 15 resources per die) (- Labor)
(Progress 0/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Consumer Goods, - Labor)
(Progress 0/500: 15 resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, +++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, --- Energy)
(Progress 0/1000: 15 resources per die) (+++++ Consumer Goods, ++++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, --- Energy)
(Progress 0/2000: 15 resources per die) (++++++ Consumer Goods, +++++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, --- Energy)
[ ] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1)
GDI needs ever more heavy robots, and ever greater supplies of automation. With projects in the Red Zones, and potentially underground mines, the current construction yards and systems are completely insufficient. Nuuk is planned to be the largest existing robotics construction work. While it will be expensive, it will also provide masses of capital goods.
(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) (- Labor)
(Progress 0/320: 20 resources per die) (+++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, --- Energy)
(Progress 0/640: 20 resources per die) (+++++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, ---- Energy)
(Progress 0/1280: 20 resources per die) (++++++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, ---- Energy)
(Progress 0/2560: 20 resources per die) (+++++++ Capital Goods, -- Labor, ----- Energy)
[ ] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors
The Initiative has an ever increasing need for heavy industrial products, ranging from heavy stampings and pressings, to synthetic crystals and tooling. While specialized areas are often more efficient, they are less capable of sheer bulk compared to setting aside large areas of the cities towards the production of capital goods.
(Progress 0/500: 25 Resources per die) (++++ Capital Goods, --- Labor, ---- Energy)
[ ] Automated Civilian Shipyards
With GDI's ever increasing need for shipping, production of cargo ships, the backbone of global logistics, must increase. A series of heavily automated shipyards will fill the gap, requiring substantial investments of capital goods, but able to produce ships far faster than human construction crews.
(Progress 0/250: 20 Resources per die) (++++ Logistics, - Capital Goods, --- Energy)- [ ] Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors (Phase 1)
With GDI needing ever more in the way of light industrial products, and Blue Zone reconstruction effectively complete, large sections of many of the cities have been cleared for future development. While industry is not necessarily the most efficient use, it will have substantial impacts on the supply of various consumer goods. The project has also subsumed a number of other factories that had been on the docket for years, as the Initiative no longer needs to focus on that scale.
(Progress 0/500: 10 Resources per die) (++++ ++ Consumer Goods, ++ Health -- Energy, -- Capital Goods, --- -- Labor)
[ ] Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory
Personal robots, ranging from automated vacuum cleaners to lawn mowers, to delivery and recreational drones, have been in short supply during and after the Third Tiberium War. While technologically primitive in most cases, a large complex in Johannesburg would be a good fit to begin solving that particular shortage.
(Progress 0/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Consumer Goods, + Logistics)
[ ] Chemical Fertilizer Plants
While GDI's methods typically rely heavily on circulating nutrients through fish to deliver nutrition to its plant growth bays, producing effective non toxic fertilizers is quite possible. By supplementing fish and bacterial byproducts with chemical additives, GDI can increase production of food and consumer goods.
(Progress 0/200: 15 resources per die) (+++ Consumer Goods, +++ Food, - Energy)
[ ] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers
A variety of high-end medications, ranging from insulin, chemotherapy, psychopharmaca, vaccines, antiviral and antibiotic substances are difficult to produce in sufficient quantities without the right equipment. Building additional synthesising centres will bolster the supply of critical medications and help with the increased demand by the growing population under GDIs umbrella.
(Progress 0/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Health, -- Energy)
[ ] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4)
The expansion of the macrospinner project has reached a point where it is not only providing support locally, but has begun to support all aspects of the Initiative's military and industrial complexes. Providing yet more of the wonder material will improve efficiencies further and increase supplies going to critical war industries.
(Progress 69/720: 20 resources per die) (+++ Capital Goods, ++ Energy) (Reduces cost of mech and zone armor projects)
(Progress 0/1440: 20 resources per die) (++++ Capital Goods, +++ Energy) (Reduces cost of mech and zone armor projects)
[ ] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner
With the Johannesburg plant proving the point, Reykjavik will be a good site to expand production and increase output, providing for mass production of the material, and hardening the supply in case of sabotage or destruction of the Johannesburg plant.
(Progress 0/80: 20 resources per die)
(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/320: 20 resources per die) (++ Capital Goods, + Energy)
(Progress 0/640: 20 resources per die) (+++ Capital Goods ++ Energy)
(Progress 0/1280: 20 resources per die) (++++ Capital Goods, +++ Energy)
[ ] Bergen Superconductor Foundry
With the proof of concept for larger scale superconductors well and truly proven, a large scale facility capable of producing at least thousands of kilometers of the material is required. Bergen, on the coast of the North Atlantic, will provide a more than suitable location to provide for shipping superconductor tubes around the world.
(Progress 0/95: 30 resources per die) (+ Energy)
(Progress 0/190: 30 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods, ++ Energy)
(Progress 0/380: 30 resources per die) (++ Capital Goods, +++ Energy) (- Logistics)
(Progress 0/760: 30 resources per die) (+++ Capital Goods, ++++ Energy) (-- Logistics)
(Progress 0/1520: 30 resources per die) (++++ Capital Goods, +++++ Energy) (-- - Logistics)
Oh. Nice. OK two questions:
Why do we have 30 Labor instead of 31? There is no information in the Status tab as to what happened to lose us 1 Labor.
Will some of the Light and Chemical Industry Projects be folded into Blue Zone Industry Sectors Phase 2 if we do Phase 1?
So we need Karachi to get better building options in the Himalayan Blue Zone?
Also what government is running that zone? Chinese remnant? Nepalese? Pakistani? Himalayan? Or some mix of the four? Or something more?
- Location
- canada
The new Myomer Macrospinner doesn't seem to offer much or any advantage over the currently existing [ ] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner with how much it costs to get the next phase vs 3 phases of the other option just to get to a similar progress level, and it doesn't even have the extra benefits for power armor projects included in.
The super conductor production project is new, but not even close to being as cost efficient as making more fusion or fission power facilities, or more dedicated Capital goods production projects for combined benefits over costs.
Unless there are mentioned additional benefits given in-quest, I don't see how these new project could be competitive alternatives, unless the other projects completely dry up first.
The super conductor production project is new, but not even close to being as cost efficient as making more fusion or fission power facilities, or more dedicated Capital goods production projects for combined benefits over costs.
Unless there are mentioned additional benefits given in-quest, I don't see how these new project could be competitive alternatives, unless the other projects completely dry up first.
- Location
- The Underdark
You spent it doing one of your projects in Q1, the Dakar shipyard.
No, because they are intentionally pulled out as specific projects. The sectors are a general "All the little stuff" project, rather than specific target areas that need your attention.
- Location
- USA
A 2nd location means two points of failure and different shipping times for the logistics line.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- He/Him
According to what I can guess off Google Earth that zone seems to be a mix mostly of current disputed Indian/Pakistani and Chinese territory. Very strange area to have a blue zone, it's like Aksai Chin and Jammu and Kashmir and a chunk of Tibet where nobody lives.
The original government there was probably Pakistani.
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- Location
- The Underdark
It is not supposed to be. The thing is that it is also an LCI project compared to fission and fusion's Heavy Industry, so for the times when you have other priorities for HI, it is an option. Each field has their specialties in terms of goods that they can produce effectively. LCI produces health and consumer goods relatively efficiently, and Energy and Capital Goods, notably less efficiently. Similarly, Heavy Industry produces Energy and Capital Goods very efficiently, and Consumer Goods or Logistics less efficiently.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yeah but we had 32 Labor at the start of Q1:
and the Dakar Shipyard only cost 1 Labor:
so why do we have 30 instead of 31 Labor now?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, but it's a big part of how we've gotten to a place where the QM has given up on what I for one thought was a genuinely interesting exploration of a nation pushing capital aside... because he's sick of the acrimony and of people endlessly refighting the same battles.
I get where the hostility comes from, but being able to control one's anger and mistrust- at least well enough to win graciously- plays a huge role in whether other people are willing to play with one, or willing to listen to one.
I mean, to be a 'win condition' we'd have to have some way of stopping tiberium from ever overrunning it... which means the TCN, which means Kane's cooperation.
Do you see success at Mecca setting in motion a chain of events that convinces Kane to cooperate?
Personally, yeah, I want to push the deployment over development options, except for Steel Talons projects. Because practically the entire point of the Steel Talons' existence is to chug along in the background pioneering more advanced weapons concepts and figuring out what even works and what doesn't. This does require some funding, and refusing to fund it last time has put us on really bad terms with them because we were basically supporting everything BUT their projects.
You're missing something important.
They don't just have "some" Capital Goods requirement, they have lots of Capital Goods requirement. Until we got the expanded planning apparatus it was just a single gigantic -16 Capital Goods project- and you will notice that all the Capital Goods we created for the entire plan so far adds up to something like +15 to +20 Capital Goods, tops, over a period of three years.
The general consensus was that we'd do a 1200-point heavy industrial megaproject (something like 16 dice invested!) JUST to get the Capital Goods for the war factory refits.
In theory we could have started the first phase or two of the projects, but those phases are the least impactful parts of the project for precisely all the same reasons they're the least costly in Capital Goods. Speeding up the MCV production line is all well and good but it's not a decisive transformation of our war industry the way the full -16-point combined action is.
So you're looking at an option we historically haven't taken because the cost of affording it is just fucking back-breaking, and mistaking it for an option we aren't taking because nobody cares, even as we finally begin to get within shouting distance of being able to afford it. That's a good way to wind up surprised.
@Ithillid
The one significant disadvantage of this that I can see is that the new format isn't searchable. If I'm on the page where you post a turn update and I want to find the macrospinner option, I can Ctrl-F and type in "macros" and bam I'm there, after maybe clicking past one or two cases of someone else putting up a plan draft. With the tabs, I can't do that. Looking things up isn't necessarily actually harder, but it's a quite different workflow.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Has GDI done any work on bulk synthesis of graphene or other carbon allotropes?
@BOTcommander, is there an upper limit to the gravity gradient we cam create with gravity plates? I'm wondering if we could make a mass driver that could avoid applying a g-force to its payloads? And are they small enough to fit in a fighter cockpit as a means of countering g-force?
@BOTcommander, is there an upper limit to the gravity gradient we cam create with gravity plates? I'm wondering if we could make a mass driver that could avoid applying a g-force to its payloads? And are they small enough to fit in a fighter cockpit as a means of countering g-force?
- Location
- Seymour MO
If I remember correctly it has been implied that these kinds of things have background effects to other things.
Like when we first got myomer bundles it was said they would also affect things like robotic arms on assembly lines.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Steel Talons don't cough up the advanced tech until after we finish a Deployment project for them. Similar to how the Navy's Point Defense Refits gate us using that tech for defending YZ Fortress Towns. And the research in the background happens with our without our direct funding; it just needs the Treasury's resources to go from prototypes in a lab into a Deployable state.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
According to my very fast and basic thinking on the issue, GDIs AG cannot really be used for a mass driver driver device, because having a hole in the bottom makes the actual AG field behave weird:
As for a device counteracting G forces, probably, if you have a robust enough power delivery system. The backups for the AG labs and training rooms I imagined are enormous. Upper limits, if the machine is built for it and you have the power delivery, go ham on creating neutron star level gravity in your backyard.
But more importantly, while I am sure Ithillid doesnt mind half the stuff I spew forth, he has the final say on whats canon. So whatever I do is taken with a grain of salt, which is why I specified "If we take SCED/CarterQuest lore into consideration."
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Notably, the new Reykjavik plant is more cost-effective to invest in than continued expansion of Johannesburg...
Let's make an argument based on facts and math, shall we?
Cost of Reykjavik Phase 1+2+3:
80+160+320 = 560 Progress at 20 R/die for 3 Capital Goods and 1 Energy.
187 Progress per Capital Goods
Cost of Johannesburg Phase 4:
720 - 69 = 651 Progress at 20 R/die for 4 Capital Goods and 2 Energy.
163 Progress per Capital Goods
There's a slight efficiency advantage in favor of Johannesburg (much of it coming from the part where we've already got 69 points of rollover on Johannesburg)... But then look what happens if we actually contemplate completing either project.
Cost of Reykjavik Phase 1+2+3+4+5:
560+640+1280 = 2480 Progress at 20 R/die for 3+4+8 = 15 Capital Goods and 7 Energy.
165 Progress per Capital Goods
Cost of Johannesburg Phase 4+5:
651 + 1440 = 2091 Progress at 20 R/die for 12 Capital Goods and 6 Energy
174 Progress per Capital Goods
Each phase of Reykjavik is cheaper than the corresponding phase of Johannesburg, so in the long run investing in a Phase 5 Reykjavik will be cost-effective compared to completing Johannesburg. Of course, this hinges on our eventually being able to afford and complete a very expensive Light Industry megaproject... but then, so does Johannesburg.
The other notable advantage of the Reykjavik site is that it isn't being built in the backyard of Nod's sneakiest, most sabotage-utilizing warlord. It gives us some flexibility if a single Nod warlord rolls a crit and, say, smuggles a nuclear bomb into the middle of that one giant industrial complex in the whole world that's producing virtually our entire supply of a vital strategic material.
Yes, and as already pointed out, what makes it relevant is that it's a Light Industry option for producing Capital Goods and Energy, enabling us to do that even when our Heavy Industry dice are locked down pursuing something else.
If efficiency were are only concern, and we had no dice caps, we'd have never built tidal power stations, because they didn't yield as much power as just building more fission reactors. But being able to get +Energy out of Infrastructure dice was very desirable at a time when our Heavy Industry dice were locked down doing other things.
I mean, you're right.
But if we just say "okay, we will do no new development funding and only fund deployments" then we are kind of fucking over the only department that's already finished all its deployments and has all future deployments gated behind a development project.
This is exactly how we wound up in the situation we had until recently, with the Steel Talons never getting funding to do anything and being ignored for several years. I don't consider us returning to that status quo a satisfactory outcome.
So I think we should throw them a damn bone and do a specific development project they want, even if we can't immediately do the deployment and have to wait a few quarters to have the resources and dice to spare on it. Because the alternative is to ignore them more or less forever since they don't have "shovel ready" hardware options and indeed "shovel ready" isn't really the point of their existence anyway.
- Location
- USA
It does not have the reduction listed though.... unsure if that might kick in if we do the later phases of the new one before doing the phases of the current one
That's the last time we did to them before the Titans and they waited years for that. The Steel Talons would not be willing to have us develop their projects without assurances on deoloying in a quarter or two after development because they barely trust the Treasury as it is. You're not thinking of humans and bureaucrats who can be irrational beings and we don't want to taint Seo's relationship with then by being forgetful about it again.
We did a Carbon Nanotube factory a while ago, the production of which has been used in the Ablative Armor pucks. (Completed Q3 2053.)
Also the Havoc is a damn good unit for future path of GDI. It'll be part of future proofing GDI military as we start heading in the direction of Zone Armor for everyone.
It's specifically designed to operate in heavily broken terrain in support of Zone Troopers and Zone Raiders, in fact it's probably the only armored vehicle that can keep up with said Zone units in such terrain while providing meaningful support. Itll probably be one of the rare Steel Talon designs that end up being adopted by GDI ground forces and ZOCOM at large.
staplesdex2
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I mean Steel Talons were stated by thread posters as DARPA but with teeth so their prototype projects were going to become part of the other services down the pipeline.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, I feel like you're overlooking the obvious here.
Do you really think the Talons are going to be happier with NO funding to do anything whatsoever, than they will be getting funding to develop something that doesn't immediately hit deployment?
Military procurement usually operates on timescales measured in years. The Tiberium Wars setting is unusual in that things don't take that long to happen, and we can rush something from initial development into mass military production in a year if the underlying theory is understood... but that doesn't mean that the Talons will go into such a snit over a deployment delay of 2-4 quarters that we're worse off than if we'd just given them literally nothing during the same period.
Quite possibly, yes, though ZOCOM is more likely to adopt the tech than Ground Forces as a whole.
Yes to a degree. On the other hand, the Talons tend to operate a lot of wonky high-end vehicles that are too expensive and temperamental to put into mass production and outfit the entire ten-million-strong GDI field army with.
The problem is that as a branch of the military they're small enough that we can nearly always rationalize spending the Military dice on Ground Forces, the Navy, or the Air Force. ZOCOM has the same problem, really. They'd be very unhappy with us if we hadn't made a point of building up most of the zone suit factories early on in the first Four Year Plan so they could at least hang on, while also supporting MARVs (a ZOCOM-adjacent project) and in general working closely with them on harvesting operations.
The difference is, the Talons don't have that, and except for a surge of funding in and aronud 2055-56, have basically spent the entire quest sitting on the shelf with nothing.
We need to not just straight-up forget to fund the Talons, and to make sure that out of every 10-15 or so dice we spend on the military, at least one goes to them. Even if that one die doesn't result in immediate payoffs because it'll be a turn or two before we can follow up with deployment.
- Location
- USA
[X]Plan Organize Leadership and Gather Allies