Interesting trope! So, was that named after the Fremen in the Dune series?
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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes as we spent over a decade integrating gunpowder artillery into our army. See the Adopt Gunpowder Weaponry action that we started in 1594 and completed in 1605.
Oh, that's stuff I accidentally had in my post. I suppose I'll explain.
Fremen mirage explain a fallacious false narrative of history. Hard Time create Good Men. Good Men Create Good Time. Good time creates Weak Men. Weak Men Create Bad TIme.
In other word, it's a load of bollocks.
Taking another look, it's kind of vague whether the culverins were hand culverins (i.e. early guns) or field culverins (i.e. early cannon). From the overall context, I'm guessing the latter... so we may not in fact have crossbow replacements yet.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Ymar actively invading enemy land probably looks hilarious
- walk forward until cannons can hit their walls
- set down cannons
- mass fire until no walls
- pick up cannons, continue walking
I'd love to imagine this is what produced the description of Dafyd taking Hellan territory at "the speed of a slow walk".
- walk forward until cannons can hit their walls
- set down cannons
- mass fire until no walls
- pick up cannons, continue walking
I'd love to imagine this is what produced the description of Dafyd taking Hellan territory at "the speed of a slow walk".
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I found the quote, I'd forgotten it made the effects of guns pretty explicit:
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ymar doctrine is probably very strange, to an outsider. In general, neither going for "few well-equipped troops" or "masses of troops with minimal gear" Ymarin troops are massive, and equipped (presumably) with at least relatively advanced gear. The abundance of missile weaponry as well, crossbows as well as cannon, means the approach is likely terrifying. Not much cavalry, though Banners are an exception, as they generally seem to be.
Quantity or quality. The Ymaryn thought, "Why not both?"
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pamplona: Ymarin-Sempai, how do I get good at armies?
Ymarin: Well, step one is to start in the pre-stone age. Build a society focused on stability and food generation, then get super lucky and just get iron. Now, keep at it for millennia, and then you'll have the best army in the world. Any questions?
- Location
- Australia
Hah, sounds like a flight school meme.
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I realized that after I posted. You'd have to reword it a bit to fit the pattern, but it would be at least as coherent as the average Flight School meme.
This looks to me like the culverins that we sold Kurna were "hand bombards," which points to them being the precursor to muskets instead of cannon-like bombards.
[X] Cut them loose. (+.5 Income from integration, -5 Prestige, Western Wall angry in future, Rus pleased)
Under no circumstances can we legitimize private citizens expanding the kingdom on their own recognizance. That's how you get shit like British India. The fact that we're on fire and can't afford to occupy and Ymarynize Ukraine just makes it pressing on an economic front as well as a moral and political one.
[X] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)
Settler genocide is bad, mmkay?
Under no circumstances can we legitimize private citizens expanding the kingdom on their own recognizance. That's how you get shit like British India. The fact that we're on fire and can't afford to occupy and Ymarynize Ukraine just makes it pressing on an economic front as well as a moral and political one.
[X] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)
Settler genocide is bad, mmkay?
We've been noted as having (and selling) gunpowder handguns since the beginning of this quest but also that the hand weapons were not good yet. Some units of the regulars will have them but we couldn't have supplied the powder to the mass levy even if we'd wanted to equip them that way and they're not ready for banner company performance.
They might get off one or two volleys in a field battle to break a cavalry charge or disrupt a shield wall - we are fortunate to have the numbers that we can field enough gunners for those effects and enough general purpose missile troops and enough other infantry. I mainly see them being used to defend fortifications though a bit like super heavy crossbows - very slow to reload, less accurate than the crossbow but even more killing power - a pavise won't stop one.
They'll have improved since the Kurna sale too - two decades with lots of war and a lot of very motivated gunmakers with a decent tech base - the guildmasters will have seen a lot of new designs.
They might get off one or two volleys in a field battle to break a cavalry charge or disrupt a shield wall - we are fortunate to have the numbers that we can field enough gunners for those effects and enough general purpose missile troops and enough other infantry. I mainly see them being used to defend fortifications though a bit like super heavy crossbows - very slow to reload, less accurate than the crossbow but even more killing power - a pavise won't stop one.
They'll have improved since the Kurna sale too - two decades with lots of war and a lot of very motivated gunmakers with a decent tech base - the guildmasters will have seen a lot of new designs.
- Location
- Australia
@Aranfan this sentence begins and ends in 'this time'.
This I agree with, although here we did not have private citizens but a policy that was by itself a major power do the conquest, so it does not really fit.
This, on the other hand, is completely wrong.
We could easily afford bringing not!Ukraine into the fold, both manpower and resource wise, in fact cutting them loose costs us 1.5 income. We also plan to make a massive diplomatic outreach and integrate them anyway in the coming decade or two.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
fix'd,thanks.
1.5 income is completely countered by having to send a city levi somewhere once every 3 years or so.
We would likely come out profit positive, but we WOULD suffer cyclical rebellions unless we let the Rus get culturally or physically geocided, and then the survivors would flee north and east, poisoning our relations with any tribes in the region.
Not really.
Had the Black Sheep needed to genocide the population of Thunder Plateau? Had they fled?
On the contrary, had we waited another 8 years the population would have seen us as invaders.
And the rule of the former barbarians was quite harsh.
We would have had some problems, but absolutely not on the scale you are implying here, especially in case of a new Rus province ruled by their own people.
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[X] Cut them loose. (+.5 Income from integration, -5 Prestige, Western Wall angry in future, Rus pleased)
[X] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)
Finally caught up after some time, and personally I'd like to go to the "the fire is warm" school of diplomacy. And from my understanding of it we should let the people go, so they will get goodwill on us.
Also I read in some replies that our wayward province was being dicks, any particular examples? The only ones I remember are when they attempted to assassinate the king, that whole Khan thing, and the current laundry list of blood feuds they accrued in their attempts at settler colonialism.
[X] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)
Finally caught up after some time, and personally I'd like to go to the "the fire is warm" school of diplomacy. And from my understanding of it we should let the people go, so they will get goodwill on us.
Also I read in some replies that our wayward province was being dicks, any particular examples? The only ones I remember are when they attempted to assassinate the king, that whole Khan thing, and the current laundry list of blood feuds they accrued in their attempts at settler colonialism.
Is this not enough?
Besides, as we were starving, Amber Road was well enough to try to contact us, and WW lied to them saying we died. This led to the Amber Road being nearly overrun by their own barbarians without our weapons and steel and us literally nearly starving and collapsing.
Perhaps I should have phrased that statement better but I was asking for any other bouts of dickery that I forgot for one reason or another. But yes the rebellious and edgy province will be forced into the time out corner until it learns that the Ymarn as a culture are not needless dicks, much less a reminder of the worst things in politics.
I have been having a think about our crossbows, and I have come to the conclusion that we may actually have significantly better crossbows than existed in the medieval or even renaissance period.
One thing to note is that crossbows of this period had very short draw lengths. This was primarily because people of these periods did not have good quality control over their metal. This meant that crossbow designs are made to avoid actually bending the limbs of the crossbow very much because there was no way to be sure the metal wouldn't shatter.
This lead to a negative cycle where crossbow draw weights had to be astronomical to have sufficient power to be useful. You got insanity like crossbows with a 4 inch draw length and a 1800lb draw weight.
The thing is, we don't have that problem. Ymar has had the world's best iron manufacturing since basically the invention of iron. We produce quality steel. We trust our steel quality control significantly.
So I find it quite likely that Ymar is using something pretty close to spring steel in our crossbow limbs. This means that we are likely building crossbows with something far closer to an 18" draw. Because the equation for bolt energy is 1/2*Draw weight*Draw length this means our crossbows are likely something like 4 times more powerful than a crossbow made elsewhere. Now, we very likely step back the absurd draw weight to something more reasonable to load with an oversized goat's leg, so we are talking 900lb draw weight over 18" draw lengths, but the math still works out to have crossbows with twice the power of a medieval war crossbow.
That equates to both higher penetration as well as longer range. The ability to have more reasonable draw weights means we can use faster and cheaper spanning tools rather than needing to rely on winch systems. This offsets the cost of using quality steel in the crossbow arms.
Quality steel is, after all, relatively cheap in Ymar.
----
Though this does not alleviate my confusion as to why we have not switched from crossbows to culverins. Culverins are more powerful because they are not constrained by the mechanical limits of metal limbs and can thus achieve impossible projectile velocities with massive projectiles compared to a crossbow. They are far easier to train someone on. They are faster to fire, even muzzle loading. They are cheaper.
And they hit a LOT harder, to the point that armor becomes meaningless fairly rapidly.
A lack of accuracy isn't an issue in volley fire.
I accept that we have not adopted them, but the only reason we have not I can come up with is traditionalism.
One thing to note is that crossbows of this period had very short draw lengths. This was primarily because people of these periods did not have good quality control over their metal. This meant that crossbow designs are made to avoid actually bending the limbs of the crossbow very much because there was no way to be sure the metal wouldn't shatter.
This lead to a negative cycle where crossbow draw weights had to be astronomical to have sufficient power to be useful. You got insanity like crossbows with a 4 inch draw length and a 1800lb draw weight.
The thing is, we don't have that problem. Ymar has had the world's best iron manufacturing since basically the invention of iron. We produce quality steel. We trust our steel quality control significantly.
So I find it quite likely that Ymar is using something pretty close to spring steel in our crossbow limbs. This means that we are likely building crossbows with something far closer to an 18" draw. Because the equation for bolt energy is 1/2*Draw weight*Draw length this means our crossbows are likely something like 4 times more powerful than a crossbow made elsewhere. Now, we very likely step back the absurd draw weight to something more reasonable to load with an oversized goat's leg, so we are talking 900lb draw weight over 18" draw lengths, but the math still works out to have crossbows with twice the power of a medieval war crossbow.
That equates to both higher penetration as well as longer range. The ability to have more reasonable draw weights means we can use faster and cheaper spanning tools rather than needing to rely on winch systems. This offsets the cost of using quality steel in the crossbow arms.
Quality steel is, after all, relatively cheap in Ymar.
----
Though this does not alleviate my confusion as to why we have not switched from crossbows to culverins. Culverins are more powerful because they are not constrained by the mechanical limits of metal limbs and can thus achieve impossible projectile velocities with massive projectiles compared to a crossbow. They are far easier to train someone on. They are faster to fire, even muzzle loading. They are cheaper.
And they hit a LOT harder, to the point that armor becomes meaningless fairly rapidly.
A lack of accuracy isn't an issue in volley fire.
I accept that we have not adopted them, but the only reason we have not I can come up with is traditionalism.
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