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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

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The last two demands are not acceptable--and the last one especially. Western Wall has been building blood feuds, and being forced to carry them on will damage the Ymaryn perhaps permanently.

We'll try to make peace--but as a neutral mediator, cognizant of the wrongs that Western Wall carried out.

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@Aranfan: concerning the second condition (since some seem to be considering it), has Western Wall conquered past the not!Ukraine natural boundaries?

If so, this is indefensible land, and should not be accepted even if they drop the third condition.
 
One of the lessons we've had to learn, despite the repeated refusal of players to do so in the past, is that we shouldn't be evil. Western Wall wants us to be evil, which we should refuse to do.
 
Thanks for the clarification.

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Either way, taking the conquests is a trap. Right now, the Rus are leery as hell about the Ymaryn, after their recent treatment. We'll prove our good faith, and bring them into the fold, but it'll take time. If we take their lands now, they'll be looking to rebel from day one and it'll be much harder to win them over.

Establish ourselves as a trustworthy intermediary, i.e. one that doesn't have a vested interest in taking over (even though we kinda do).
 
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If it wasn't for the third point, I would be in favour of accepting. The first point is acceptable. The second point is undesirable, but tolerable if it wasn't for the third point. If we could just nominally made the Rus lands part of the Ymaryn Empire and put the locals back in charge, it would be workable enough that a quicker end to the war would be enough for me to take it. As it is, being forced to support Western Wall's settlers over the locals is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
I don't think it is desirable to force the Ymaryn farmers to leave unless it's necessary. If they can't play nice with the locals, then they should leave, because they are our responsibility.
 
We don't have enough of the details, including: how deep the feuding has gone between the Rus and settlers. What kind of peace agreement can we broker between them, with the Ymaryn as a guarantor? Is a peace agreement even possible?

We're going to need more diplomats on the ground (the new bureau is going into the deep end from day one). This is going to be a mess. But, at least it will help them gain experience for their wider duty.
 
Well first of all, the children of the traitor nobles are almost certainly old enough to be involved in their parents' affairs, possibly including their attempts at assassination and sabotage, since the ruling nobility likely skews old thanks to a fairly impressive medical understanding for our time as well as Western Wall not fighting the Khan as hard as the Core. And since Western Wall was the most resistant and treacherous of all the breakaways, even more so than the (surprisingly accommodating) literal invading nomads, we really want them all gone just so we don't have to worry about more intrigue-related issues.

Second, recognizing the lands is really something we want to consider on a case by case basis, particularly as far as it relates to point 3.

And the third point is that they are asking us to not only inherit but fully legitimize their complete and utter fuckups, which we have no reason to do. Specially since we're looking into courting Amber Road's coalition and they have kinship with the Rus.
 
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Andres110 said:
Probably not. The people of Western Wall are evil and do evil things, and breaking peace agreements is something they're very likely to do since doing so will let them do evil.
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This (or the perception of it among the Rus) is why a realistic peace agreement will have to involve our policing the settlers. "In a just manner", should go without saying.

That's the only kind of peace the Rus will trust (at least until the evils of Western Wall become a bad memory). It also requires, as prerequisite, that the Rus trust us--which will require diplomacy and preferably that we maintain some semblence of being a neutral party, aka not conquering them.

Making it work as "the ones who took over from Western Wall" would be much harder.
 
It's been an hour now.

[X] Reject (War Continues)

I hope the peahens aren't too upset about the war continuing. But we can't afford to get stuck in an endless conflict with the Rus for the rest of the kingdom's history. Not the least since agreeing to those conditions will make "the rest of the kingdom's history" much shorter.
 
[X] Reject (War Continues)

Legitimizing the mess Western Wall made on the conquest spree seems like a rather poor move. Plus, we have the entire might of the Ymaryn arranged here, while Western Wall is running hot and barely can keep their levy up and running.

We conquer up to the Old Borders (and only up to those) and then reintroduce new administration.
 
Rule 3: Please take care to only attack arguments, not people.
Kiba said:
Can we stop characterizing WW as evil beings? It seems rather dehumanizing. They made their [bad]choices, and now they have to live with it.
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They believe evil things and do evil things. They're evil. I cannot overemphasise how bullshit I think your views are, because it's exactly the same views that a bunch of nazi apologists hold. "Don't call the nazis evil, they're people too. They didn't do evil things because they didn't think they're evil, therefore they're just people who made bad choices."
 
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Andres110 said:
They believe evil things and do evil things. They're evil. I cannot overemphasise how bullshit I think your views are, because it's exactly the same views that a bunch of nazi apologists hold. "Don't call the nazis evil, they're people too. They didn't do evil things because they didn't think they're evil, therefore they're just people who made bad choices."
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Please do not call me a nazi apologist and make strawman arguments as if I make excuses for them.
 
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