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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

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Oshha said:
I think it is more about not wanting to get one that we don't want to accept, but refusal would be worse than accepting.
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Fouredged Sword said:
I think more worried about getting a deal good enough there is a lot of pressure to take it, but otherwise one that forces us to compromise somewhere we really do not want to compromise.

The worst case would be a peace deal that the nobles get pissed at rejecting, but the TP people get pissed if we take due to going back on promises made to them.
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These two quotes express very well what I am worried about.

As the Ymaryn, we have many interest groups that are not as committed to the long term good of the polity as we (presumably) try to be. If there is an offer that looks great to a powerful group, but would be a long-term problem, then we might have to say no, but lose influence for doing so.

I am not dead set against seeking for peace at this point, I just wanted to point out that there is some level of risk. If we had more influence to spare, then it would be less of a concern.
 
Aranfan said:
They have been doing so since the action unlocked.

Edit: Well, more accurately they have been sending out feelers that they would be open to negotiating a surrender, which you have been ignoring because REE.
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Okay, I'm switching my vote then.

[X] Plan Fouredged
 
Oshha said:
Because the Black Sheep have been trying to make peace with us so I want to begin accepting their feelers instead of ignoring them.
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You do realize there is a good chance we're ignoring them because their terms are bad, yes? Much like how we didn't take their first offer of surrender because it was horrible to the point that it would have destroyed the Melkut long term, it is possible that some of their other offers were merely bad.

For example, if they offered us 3/4s of the territory in dispute, anyone else would regard that as a great deal but for us that'd be nothing but trouble.

Any offer that involves us not getting the whole territory, or them remaining in positions of authority that they cannot possibly hope to properly run because their education is just not suited to making the extremely complex and fiddly bureaucracy work is not one we can accept.

The same goes for any offer that has us breaking our promises to the rebels, since they are the culturally Ymaryn people we rely on to make Thunder Plateau in any way possible to hold and betraying them would stabbing ourselves in the foot.
 
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We're not ignoring them because their terms are bad though. We're explicitly ignoring them because "REEEEE Filthy Nomads!" and so we're not bothering to even listen to what their offers are unless the King personally intercedes.
Aranfan said:
If you aren't taking "press for peace" then you aren't even giving this hypothetical envoy the time of day.

Y'all are still really bad at diplomacy.
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Aranfan said:
They have been doing so since the action unlocked.

Edit: Well, more accurately they have been sending out feelers that they would be open to negotiating a surrender, which you have been ignoring because REE.
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Like, until we take the option, even in-universe we're not aware of what their terms are, because we're refusing to hear what those terms are in the first place.
 
Chimeraguard said:
We're not ignoring them because their terms are bad though. We're explicitly ignoring them because "REEEEE Filthy Nomads!" and so we're not bothering to even listen to what their offers are unless the King personally intercedes.


Like, until we take the option, even in-universe we're not aware of what their terms are, because we're refusing to hear what those terms are in the first place.
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The problem is that unless what they are offering is to leave, which I really doubt they are offering because it is something they could do unilaterally, their offers are always going to be bad, because they'll hardly want to give up their power and to make them give up their power is a basic requirement.

Even if they tried to promise to follow all our orders and laws, they most likely couldn't actually keep that promise. Thunder Plateau is described as having become essentially a normal feudal country, which means that as far as we are concerned it is in ruins, and I really doubt they understand what they did wrong or how to fix it.

The reason the Melkut Ymaryn even functions the way it does is because of baked-in cultural assumptions like 'having people under my charge starve is inherently shameful and barbarian-like' and 'the methods of land usage are a holy matter' which the Black Sheep don't have. To them, authority descends much more closely from martial excellence, administration is something the minions can do and there is no major concern so long as you don't go bankrupt, people starve which is normal and farming is just what the peasants do and so long as they keep paying taxes they can do whatever.
 
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My sleep schedule is all messed up, I'm in no state to start writing the update. I have no idea when I'll be fit to close the vote.

Sorry for slipping in the daily updates.
 
065tdsa said:
You do realize there is a good chance we're ignoring them because their terms are bad, yes? Much like how we didn't take their first offer of surrender because it was horrible to the point that it would have destroyed the Melkut long term, it is possible that some of their other offers were merely bad.

For example, if they offered us 3/4s of the territory in dispute, anyone else would regard that as a great deal but for us that'd be nothing but trouble.

Any offer that involves us not getting the whole territory, or them remaining in positions of authority that they cannot possibly hope to properly run because their education is just not suited to making the extremely complex and fiddly bureaucracy work is not one we can accept.

The same goes for any offer that has us breaking our promises to the rebels, since they are the culturally Ymaryn people we rely on to make Thunder Plateau in any way possible to hold and betraying them would stabbing ourselves in the foot.
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No, the QM made explicit that we are ignoring them due to REEE, ie we are turning away their people off hand as beneith us.

Aranfan said:
My sleep schedule is all messed up, I'm in no state to start writing the update. I have no idea when I'll be fit to close the vote.

Sorry for slipping in the daily updates.
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New information is causing a vote shift anyway. I'm just jazzed to be getting updates at all. Take care of yourself.
 
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Total War: Two Empires​
This Time period is best known for the two empires, the Timeless Ymaryn and their bureaucracy, and the Umeans, most famed for their legendary legions that carved the biggest empire in the world. This is an analysis on the less standard Forces of both powers.

Umean auxiliaries​
A vital but less well known part of the Roman armies, which was introduced relatively late in it's history formed by volunteer non-citizen soldiers. Starting as mostly levies supplying numbers and specialized roles, later growing more professional, they are a respectable force if not quite up to the general standards of the Legions. They however play an important role thanks to the wide variety of specialists that the Legion normally lacks.

Ymaryn Banners​
The Ymaryn Banners in contrast are elite state sponsored mercenary units that combine the classic Ymaryn numbers advantage, the best equipment the Ymaryn can make, and exceptional training making them by far the greatest unit in the game within their specialties, in exchange for also being the costliest. An interesting note is the training allows certain types of banners to synergies with each other to make them far more scary together than when they were alone, thanks to their general training and discipline. They are also technically mercenaries which has given many a nasty surprise when one appeared out of nowhere to carry an enemy force, or proved to be a massive, but ludicrously expensive boon to a militarily struggling player whom happened to have tons of cash.

Comparison:
The situation here is somewhat reversed, as the Ymaryn Banners are their elite, effectively pushing them into a tier of their own, among the gamebreakers in power but with a price tag to match, while the Umean auxiliaries largely start amount the level of levies and tech into professionals. this means while Umean's forces are far FAR cheaper, the Ymaryn run circles around them in quality, and thanks to Ymaryn being Ymaryn, they have a significant number advantage against other elites, further cementing them as units that could win whole battles single handedly.
 
Kiba said:
I confused myself. I thought fouredge's plan is to ignore the nomads. My bad.

Still, I am not quite sure if we want to listen to them if they are going to give us bad terms long term.
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I don't think the nobles are going to pitch a fit if we reject terms in favor of killing nomad's with dilusions of grandure our country is reeing at. The most likely bad deal is one we simply so no to.
 
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