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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Abhishek M said:
Pretty sure its a smelter. As in it melt the stuff and purify. You'd still wnd up with a bar or atleast a lump.
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Heat seems to be a byproduct of the process, not an integral component. If the heat was managed would the purification still happen?

I am unconvinced that the path to adamant chainmail doesn't lie through the rune if purification.
 
Abhishek M said:
Pretty sure its a smelter. As in it melt the stuff and purify. You'd still wnd up with a bar or atleast a lump.
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If we threw a shirt in maybe. But what about just the wire? Inset the wire in a mold/holder in the smelter shaped like this to keep it from puddling out, though a lot closer together;


And we now have Adamant Wire which we can use to make Adamant Chainmail. The hard part was always getting the Gromril/Adamant into thin enough wire to make the chain mail, not actually working it at that size.
 
UlseDovThur said:
If we threw a shirt in maybe. But what about just the wire? Inset the wire in a mold/holder in the smelter shaped like this to keep it from puddling out, though a lot closer together;


And we now have Adamant Wire which we can use to make Adamant Chainmail. The hard part was always getting the Gromril/Adamant into thin enough wire to make the chain mail, not actually working it at that size.
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That's an interesting idea. Probably would need to rune up the mold for heat resistance since the smelter can melt adamant. We would also need to figure out if the chainforger works for pure gromril since I think we've been making normal gromril wire so far with the machine made out of pure gromril. The draw plates definitely would need to be made out of adamant to pull pure gromril through.
 
UlseDovThur said:
If we threw a shirt in maybe. But what about just the wire? Inset the wire in a mold/holder in the smelter shaped like this to keep it from puddling out, though a lot closer together;
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There's a reason why drawing is the normal process used to make wire, especially for things like chain mail. That reason is work hardening, which has the mechanical property of strengthening a metal. And it is inherently contingent on cold working the metal and subjecting it to plastic deformation during that process. The method you're proposing avoids both. Given that you want metal used for armor to be very strong - especially if it's being formed out of very small individual pieces like segments of wire - that kind of defeats the purpose.

In other words, I don't believe there's "one weird trick" to get around needing to draw the wire to make chainmail out of it. If there was, the dwarves of all people would most certainly already be using it.
 
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The magma dragon blood appears to dramatically reduce the waste heat from the process, but I suspect we need something more to make it sufficient to keep a chainmail shirt intact instead of a half-melted mess.
 
Wait, no, you wouldn't need a holder as the Adamant retains its shape as a bar when it comes out of the smelter. You'd just have to make sure the wire isn't touching itself so it doesn't fuse to itself.
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
That's an interesting idea. Probably would need to rune up the mold for heat resistance since the smelter can melt adamant. We would also need to figure out if the chainforger works for pure gromril since I think we've been making normal gromril wire so far with the machine made out of pure gromril. The draw plates definitely would need to be made out of adamant to pull pure gromril through.
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Pretty sure the Wire is Pure Gromril. Normal Gromril is impure and I doubt would take to being made so thin very well.
Fayhem said:
There's a reason why drawing is the normal process used to make wire, especially for things like chain mail. That reason is work hardening, which has the mechanical property of strengthening a metal. And it is inherently contingent on cold working the metal and subjecting it to plastic deformation during that process. The method you're proposing avoids both. Given that you want metal used for armor to be very strong - especially if it's being formed out of very small individual pieces like segments of wire - that kind of defeats the purpose.

In other words, I don't believe there's "one weird trick" to get around needing to draw the wire to make chainmail out of it. If there was, the dwarves of all people would most certainly already be using it.
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Cold working? Have you even read the description of how the chain maker works? Or how Snorri made his first shirt of mail in a room so hot that the stone was literally melting?

The challenge with making Gromril into wire is that it must be kept at an extremely high temperature consistently throughout the entire process near its melting point. If this isn't done it becomes extremely brittle.

Indeed it is the very process of work hardening that you describe that makes turning Gromril into wire such a bitch to do in the first place. What needs to happen is to make the Gromril into Wire without work hardening it at all lest it become incredibly brittle and crumble.

My idea is taking the already made Gromril wire and placing it into the Adamant Smelter which will convert it from Gromril into Adamant.

Please recall that we are talking about Gromril not steel or bronze. If standard metal working applied to this stuff it would be such a bitch to work with.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
Wait, no, you wouldn't need a holder as the Adamant retains its shape as a bar when it comes out of the smelter. You'd just have to make sure the wire isn't touching itself so it doesn't fuse to itself.
Pretty sure the Wire is Pure Gromril. Normal Gromril is impure and I doubt would take to being made so thin very well.
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I think it's just regular gromril going by BA's description plus the draw plates would have a real bad time if they were pure gromril pulling pure gromril.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
I think it's just regular gromril going by BA's description plus the draw plates would have a real bad time if they were pure gromril pulling pure gromril.
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Would they? We are talking about when the Gromril is near its melting point, and thus much softer than the plate which is not. It's not like you need a tungsten hammer to work red hot steel. Now if we were cold forging the stuff then yeah it would need to be made of a tougher material.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Would they? We are talking about when the Gromril is near its melting point, and thus much softer than the plate which is not. It's not like you need a tungsten hammer to work red hot steel. Now if we were cold forging the stuff then yeah it would need to be made of a tougher material.
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The rune of annealing might be weakening it enough that it pure gromril works fine. It's probably something we'll have to wait until we actually start adamant chain to get an answer for.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Cold working? Have you even read the description of how the chain maker works?
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This tone is unnecessary.
UlseDovThur said:
Or how Snorri made his first shirt of mail in a room so hot that the stone was literally melting?
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The stone was. The gromril wasn't. But yes, by all means let's look back at that.
soulcake said:
It's simple when you look at it, heat, strength and something harder than Gromril, at least in theory. Heat high enough to make Gromril malleable is also heat high enough to kill a dwarf not protected by Runes. Lowering the heat meant compensating by increasing the amount of strength one needed to pull the Gromril through the draw plate to levels beyond any average Dwarf. As for the draw plate itself, that would require a material harder than Gromril, capable of maintaining its integrity in levels of heat that would begin deforming said Gromril and tough enough to withstand the forces acted upon it when drawing the Gromril through said draw plate.

As stated, theoretically simple, practically speaking it was asking for a miracle.

Of course, the mammoth in the room was the fact that you and the Brotherhood had a material capable of acting a draw plate, as attested by the copious amount of notes seemingly written once each of your colleagues had gotten a hold of the metal for themselves.

But that still left the issue of the heat, and having the prerequisite strength.

The latter could be solved by Runes easily enough, but the issue arose when dealing with the heat. Creating temperatures that hot was the simple part really. The right array of Runes could do that easily enough, but it was the matter of surviving that heat that made it difficult. Because, for all of Gromril's wonderful properties, it had the issue of becoming unacceptably brittle when it was made that thin without proper treatment, and that required being worked at a set temperature with as little variation as possible less the resulting links be no better than a particularly hard biscuit. So, it required a continuous level of incredibly high heat. Fine, difficult, but still doable.
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The prerequisite is consistent temperature. The high heat is not inherently necessary per se, it's simply required due to the incredible resistance of gromril to working meaning that you need to get it very hot indeed to make it workable in the first place.

I don't really want to try to get into a detailed argument over the mechanics of blacksmithing when I'm pretty sure neither of us is a blacksmith, so let's go with an observation of character and setting instead. Your thesis is that making not just gromril, but Pure Gromril chainmail is as simple as just melting the metal outright and pouring it into a mold.
soulcake said:
Yet they acquiesce and you find yourself with several hundred pages worth of notes about their attempts to create Gromril chain, all showing signs of age and usually ended with disgruntled admittances of defeat. Of them all, Gorra had the most recent, perhaps only a century old, and from the looks of it she usually tried her hand every so often more out of tradition than any belief that she could crack the issue. It was always a poorly kept secret among those in the know that Runelords and Master Smiths were always chomping at the bit to try and recreate that particular bit of mythical artifice if only to prove they could.
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...Which would require that centuries if not millennia of Master Smiths, Runesmiths, and Runelords, including Snorri himself, all of whom personally have centuries of smithing experience and are intimately familiar with melting gromril since that's literally part of the process for creating Pure Gromril (which of course means they also know how to produce molten Pure Gromril) which is something any properly equipped Master Smith can do, are all too stupid to have come up with the high-concept technologically revolutionary idea of "what if we just melted it into a mold instead of drawing the wire." I'm pretty dubious of that.
 
Fayhem said:
This tone is unnecessary.

The stone was. The gromril wasn't. But yes, by all means let's look back at that.

The prerequisite is consistent temperature. The high heat is not inherently necessary per se, it's simply required due to the incredible resistance of gromril to working meaning that you need to get it very hot indeed to make it workable in the first place.

I don't really want to try to get into a detailed argument over the mechanics of blacksmithing when I'm pretty sure neither of us is a blacksmith, so let's go with an observation of character and setting instead. Your thesis is that making not just gromril, but Pure Gromril chainmail is as simple as just melting the metal outright and pouring it into a mold.

...Which would require that centuries if not millennia of Master Smiths, Runesmiths, and Runelords, including Snorri himself, all of whom personally have centuries of smithing experience and are intimately familiar with melting gromril since that's literally part of the process for creating Pure Gromril (which of course means they also know how to produce molten Pure Gromril) which is something any properly equipped Master Smith can do, are all too stupid to have come up with the high-concept technologically revolutionary idea of "what if we just melted it into a mold instead of drawing the wire." I'm pretty dubious of that.
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Where in the fucking world did you get the idea that I said to simply pour molten Gromril into a mold? Do yourself the Favour and go back and read what I wrote.
 
Even if the design we share can't do Pure Gromril... we can. Because we have adamant. Just replace the drawplate with an adamant one.
 
[X] Plan Preemptive Appeasement
[X] Plan Basket, plus prepare the defenses
soulcake said:
[ ] [Difficult] Az-Dreugi Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 46. Reveal and gain 1 Standing with Karak Kadrin. If a Rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional reagent materials here. Snorri thinks another person might be found by the end of turn 44. As a member of Clan Winterhearth, and a Runelord besides, King Dargo has sent an emissary to you bearing a potential commission. A great axe, to commemorate his coronation and as a way to salve the indignity suffered by some of your kinsmen during the decades of succession crises through material reimbursement while also letting you show off your work to a Major hold. Or at least that's how you read the opportunity. Who knows what the King is thinking really?
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Well, I suppose we could make our very own version of the Axe of Dargo. Never quite understood the wazzock who had the nerve to just put two Runes on it. Granted, one of them is a Master Rune, but come on!
 
soulcake said:
It is only hearsay and tavern talk but there is a great deal of talk about filling up the east and establishing holds in parts of the World's Edge.
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Haven't the World's Edge mountains already been colonized? I mean, there is that gap between Karak Zorn and Karak Azul that doesn't seem to have really been colonized by Dwarfs.

Does it mean the Mountains of Mourn?
 
[X] Plan Preemptive Appeasement

I'll be honest I have no interest in making another bloody axe when there is so much cool research around. Between making another hunk of sharpened metal to cut into the brains of beastmen just so and discovering the secrets of alchemy or learning the tongue of the elves, or hell getting T5 Rune metal I will choose the latter every time.
 
Is there a beer rune?
(I'm not talking about the endlessly refillable rune beer mug)
And if so what is its effect?
 
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