- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Isn't it currently early summer?
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- ?
Don't vote for dancing shoes.
I'm not trying to say what to vote for or what not to vote for, but Biyu loves magic, fluffy dogs, running around, and her sister. So we give her dancing shoes? I know the vote is about one aspect of her future development, but we should at least make it made sense with the general narrative. Maybe instead of dancing shoes, we vote for Ling Qi to give Biyu a dancing lesson. Because spending time with a sister is a much more personal than dancing shoes. Especially when she has not express a desire to learn dancing. She has express wanting to spend more time for her sister. Both votes will lead her to pursuing dance in way in a few years, but one makes sense from a narrative focus point of view.
[X] Spend some time with Biyu, teaching her to dance.
Previous Votes:
[X] Personal Time with Ling Qi
A day or two of Ling Qi's precious time
[X] Lessons on Dancing with Ling Qi
Said dancing style should also set the foundations for a fighting style
[X] Big Picture Encyclopedia about Animals in Emerald Seas
[X]Emerald Sea Myths and Legends Story Book with a Focus on Dog Shaped Spirit Beasts
[X] Illustration Book of Myths and Fables
[X] Big Picture Encyclopedia: Emerald Seas
I'm not trying to say what to vote for or what not to vote for, but Biyu loves magic, fluffy dogs, running around, and her sister. So we give her dancing shoes? I know the vote is about one aspect of her future development, but we should at least make it made sense with the general narrative. Maybe instead of dancing shoes, we vote for Ling Qi to give Biyu a dancing lesson. Because spending time with a sister is a much more personal than dancing shoes. Especially when she has not express a desire to learn dancing. She has express wanting to spend more time for her sister. Both votes will lead her to pursuing dance in way in a few years, but one makes sense from a narrative focus point of view.
[X] Spend some time with Biyu, teaching her to dance.
Previous Votes:
[X] Personal Time with Ling Qi
A day or two of Ling Qi's precious time
[X] Lessons on Dancing with Ling Qi
Said dancing style should also set the foundations for a fighting style
[X] Big Picture Encyclopedia about Animals in Emerald Seas
[X]Emerald Sea Myths and Legends Story Book with a Focus on Dog Shaped Spirit Beasts
[X] Illustration Book of Myths and Fables
[X] Big Picture Encyclopedia: Emerald Seas
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I think dancing makes perfect sense with her established interests; it's a specific form of one of the things she likes.
- Location
- United States of America
Also you specifically say
You say dont choose dancing shoes becuase spending time with her is more important (we already spend time with her and use 1ap a turn on family even if it isnt shown) but then specifically vote for the book options?
As if LQ Is just gonna give her shoes and leave. Of course LQ is gonna show her how to dance. And spend time with her regardless. Secondly dancing is also a thing qingue should know and is very appropriate for a young noble girl of ES to learn.
We already discussed the benefits it would have by helping her exert her energy , and make a nice foundation for future combat training too.
You say dont choose dancing shoes becuase spending time with her is more important (we already spend time with her and use 1ap a turn on family even if it isnt shown) but then specifically vote for the book options?
As if LQ Is just gonna give her shoes and leave. Of course LQ is gonna show her how to dance. And spend time with her regardless. Secondly dancing is also a thing qingue should know and is very appropriate for a young noble girl of ES to learn.
We already discussed the benefits it would have by helping her exert her energy , and make a nice foundation for future combat training too.
- Location
- Greece
...Huh? I have to defend myself here, because I feel none of what is said about me here is true, and frankly, I do not think it is true about @NullVoid either, although, out of fear of misrepresenting them, I will talk solely about myself.
Firstly, the bulk of my argument isn't even about this vote, just about a certain general attitude and way of thought that places our available techniques as the first priority to bringing up Biyu. So yeah, I didn't try that hard to argue (at least, until I started to get pinged, and now I cannot get off the tiger's back) precisely because I recognize its a meta vote even though I am treating it as a normal vote on principle. I just wanted to disagree with a very specific argument for one side rather than really promote my vote as superior.
I also didn't use any argument of intent. I very carefully used the observable results of a certain way of thinking as presented by arguments which I quoted.
Also, there is a different between giving someone a piece of knowledge or art and giving them something you except they use: the first comes with no long term strings attached, it is for them to enjoy at their own pace if they want and get what they'll get from it, while the second comes with specific expectations of being used. If we give her something that nudges her towards cultivation in general, fine, but for everything else we should either give her gifts with no long term obligations attached (art/knowledge to be consumed, toys, etc)
Also, I am no book elitist nor are my arguments rooted in book elitism. I rallied behind the book because its the most powerful vote with a gift that doesn't ask Biyu to commit, and defended books when it was stated they do not build character or help make one a rounded person, both of which are untrue. I admit that I do consider important the fact that the book has a good chance of aiding her on several different paths, but that is because it gives her more agency.
(agency rankings imho: something that comes with obligation of long therm use< something that is frivolous but enjoyable < something that will provide a foundation for Biyu in a whole lot of scenarios < something Biyu asked for or showed interest on, but that does not exist yet so it doesn't count.)
Your basically saying that every clan in the empire is crippling itself out of stupidity. What did yrs say about that?
He said that we should assume that the setting is filled with competent people.
No one said Biyu has to be a copy of LQ. But really, her core most arts will almost certainly come from LQ. LQ herself has been stupendously lucky in terms of mentors, connection and arts. Assuming Biyu will be able to do the same is folly.
Most people don't have great spirits just handing them shit, you know?
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- Location
- Greece
I am not saying the clans are crippling themselves out of stupidity, I am saying they hurt certain members with calcified thinking (which a lot of smart people can carry)
There may be a degree of cynical necessity in all this though : cheaper to have a lot of clan members that it is to make new arts. After all, there is a reason most clans have a gazillion members.
But we do not have a gazillion members, plus for us family is more important than a production line that will produce a strong person once in a while if enough people get born.
Except they do make new arts? In fact, the older the clan is, the more extensive their libarary of arts tends to be?
You keep acting like they or we are making clones. That's not how this works. Clans share themes because they have a small section of core arts they all share, but there are many other arts that are selected for the individual.
You basically want Biyu to start from scratch because of *reasons*, but realistically, the vast majority of people can't bootstrap themselves like LQ did. Also, "calcified thinking?" That's just an assumption. Realistically, if letting every member bootstrap themselves up was the better method, a lot of people would already be doing it.
- Location
- Florida
As a matter of fact I was one of the people who was saying that about the expectations with the flute, with all the arguments going from then WoG is just the cherry on top.
The book, flute, and shoes are the top contenders however in light of this we are looking for what she'd LOVE and not just LIKE. Hell now that I think about it the flute might even bore her at the current age and mindset which is being a little gremlin.
No dis on the book but its still in the same camp with the flute for me whereas the shoes would get her an outlet and Dance like a Devil in the Pale Moonlight when she sees what her sis can do with the SUPERHUMAN BREAKDANCE.
Also Hanyi 2.0 gotta have me some of that
.
The book, flute, and shoes are the top contenders however in light of this we are looking for what she'd LOVE and not just LIKE. Hell now that I think about it the flute might even bore her at the current age and mindset which is being a little gremlin.
No dis on the book but its still in the same camp with the flute for me whereas the shoes would get her an outlet and Dance like a Devil in the Pale Moonlight when she sees what her sis can do with the SUPERHUMAN BREAKDANCE.
Also Hanyi 2.0 gotta have me some of that
.
Best for individuals isn't necessary best for the clan.
The clan needs numbers, and its vastly easier to procure arts, drugs and sites for a small number of elemental and concept focus, to a high level of cultivation, along with recorded insights of those who had walked the Way of that concept making their successor insights easier to deal with by ensuring that candidates are prepared to accept the most likely ones.
The individual needs variety, but variety is expensive. Most clans do not have the resources to do so, and catering to each and every path its members may favor rapidly becomes bankbreaking.
So look at the scenarios we've seen so far:
-Common Cultivators - They don't have variety period. They can't even afford a complete suite for ONE element, nevermind anything else.
-Barons - They could do their one thing well, or they could suck at everything. Or they could suck up to a sponsor and get presents.
-Counts - They do their one thing VERY well, and they have a couple of secondary things they have explored which can support their main thing.
Its only for Dukes that we see they have the ability to supply meaningful options for every element to a high level in house. Sects can provide greater variety, but I suspect thats because they specialize in art research to begin with, and don't need to meet the familial and feudal obligations of a feudal vassal.
Its not stupidity when its poverty.
The clan needs numbers, and its vastly easier to procure arts, drugs and sites for a small number of elemental and concept focus, to a high level of cultivation, along with recorded insights of those who had walked the Way of that concept making their successor insights easier to deal with by ensuring that candidates are prepared to accept the most likely ones.
The individual needs variety, but variety is expensive. Most clans do not have the resources to do so, and catering to each and every path its members may favor rapidly becomes bankbreaking.
So look at the scenarios we've seen so far:
-Common Cultivators - They don't have variety period. They can't even afford a complete suite for ONE element, nevermind anything else.
-Barons - They could do their one thing well, or they could suck at everything. Or they could suck up to a sponsor and get presents.
-Counts - They do their one thing VERY well, and they have a couple of secondary things they have explored which can support their main thing.
Its only for Dukes that we see they have the ability to supply meaningful options for every element to a high level in house. Sects can provide greater variety, but I suspect thats because they specialize in art research to begin with, and don't need to meet the familial and feudal obligations of a feudal vassal.
Its not stupidity when its poverty.
Well, that's a bleak interpretation. I'm not entirely sure it's true though.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Biyu is our New Game+ we need to get this just right.
- Location
- ?
The book options are different than the dancing shoes option. Biyu has shown that she likes big fluffy dogs and she loved it when we took her outside of the city walls and played with her. The Fables or Encyclopedia options appeal to that interest, one of the interests that Biyu has shown in the story. The dancing shoes option is being voted for to encourage Biyu to develop an interest in something that she doesn't have a noticeable interest in.
Also me voting for the book option, does not take away from my argument that dancing with Biyu is better than giving Biyu dance shoes for a birthday shoe. I also want point out saying something similar to you didn't vote for what you argued for or you casted another vote for something not supported by your arguments, does not invalidate my argument. In fact, it does nothing to counter my argument, because the statement targets me the voter, not the validity of my argument.
After targeting my voting choices to discredit my argument, you then raised a counter argument to my point. Your assumption that Ling Qi would probably spend time teaching Biyu how to dance if we giver her dancing shoes is most likely correct, but I think phrasing is important. Yrs would most likely put more emphasize/work into that potential scene, if teaching Biyu how to dance was the actual gift and not an ancillary gift for the dance shoes. Which might lead to a better narrative impact.
- Location
- Staring into the void
You know what is good for outside? Drums. You know what has thematic similarities to LQ? Drums. You know what is good for several years of use? Drums. You know what is good for physical activity? Drums. They only lack fluffy animals.
Dancing shoes only have physical activity,
Books only have pictures of fluffy animals.
Drums are clearly the superior choice.
Dancing shoes only have physical activity,
Books only have pictures of fluffy animals.
Drums are clearly the superior choice.
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Freedom isn't free. The path to enlightenment is paved by many who went before.
Step off the path and you start from scratch
- Location
- Charlton, NY
God damn it. Yrsillar said on Discord that, in the case of the encyclopedia, LQ would be compiling the text herself and commissioning the images. I forgot how backward this place's supposed to be in regards to modern technology. No printing press, no real global production of items... so I'm changing my vote.
[X] Arts and Crafts set (including paints and the like)
[X] Arts and Crafts set (including paints and the like)
- Location
- California
The issue with all of these is that we're voting on a birthday gift. While there's nothing wrong with the idea of spending more time with Biyu, it's not something that's appropriate to suggest as a gift. Ling Qi spending time with or even teaching Biyu is not a "birthday gift' - it's something to be expected, as @Mr.rodent said. I feel like you're ignoring the context of this vote and focusing too much on how you want the story to go.
Yeah, this is why I'm not enamored with the shoes. I'm not against the idea of encouraging dance, but it seems like a super dull gift for a five year old.
Also, she's probably not gonna emulate our build in any material way, given how Darkness we are. The whole reason Qi is like that is because of her background of poverty, and Biyu's never going to want for anything in her life. No way our Arts resonate as strongly with her as they did with us.
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There are major clans that use dark. It literally doesn't require a background in poverty.
I wish people would stop saying that. Like people keep pointing out about Wind, it has many facets.
Edit: I mean, everyone interprets arts in their own way. Most people wouldn't receive the same insights as LQ did from her arts. The only way you could be litterally incompatible with dark is if you wanted for nothing. That's incredibly unlikely.
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
Can someone explain what dancing shoes are? Are they for professional dancing? 5y old is too young for that imo.
[X] Kite
It won't win, but it's the idea I like best: it's appropriate for a kid, she'll absolutely love it and it encourages connections with wind and flying.
[X] Kite
It won't win, but it's the idea I like best: it's appropriate for a kid, she'll absolutely love it and it encourages connections with wind and flying.
DangerKitty
shoddy writter
- Location
- lala land
Inserted tally
