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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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qwolfs said:
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.

I'm not overly fond of the options.

It's not clear if we're meant to be choosing between:
Aknowledge that divergence is inevitable, in an encouraging way.
And
Aknowledge that divergence is inevitable in an implicitly dismissive way.

Or

Encourage Renxiang to ignore the divergence as a minor aberration from Shenhua's path, which she will otherwise be emulating.
And
Aknowledge that this early divergence is not a minor abberation that will smooth out over time and that Renxiang needs to think seriously about creating a personal path which does not intentionally emulate Shenhua's path .

It feels like something of a false dichotomy.

Edit: maybe that's just me though, making the distinction is difficult.
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More accurately:
-Reassure her that its just one art - Ling Qi thinks whatever path Renxiang is trying to pursue is fine, that Renxiang could get over the problem by perservering. If one art doesn't have insights, maybe changing herself would reveal one in the next. No pain no gain. Xiulan got pretty far braving the tribulation and perservering after all.

-Tell her to reexamine her choices - If you're getting stuck maybe you should take a step back and try another tack, reconsider what your arts say about your path. Meizhen learned a lot by exploring new ways to approach her chosen path, even if its not quite typical.
 
The thing is, both options are against following Shenhua exactly. Whats really interesting to me is what the first and second one means for everyone around this table.
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.

This is encouraging and has a general flow of their not being much of a problem with what happened. But it still has tones of telling CRX that she does not have to copy her mother's path. Meizhen has also somewhat had issues with this, like her inability to cultivate metal like her aunt, but overall does not have this problem. This is also innately reassuring to Qi herself as it lowers the significance of the prior moment to an extent and makes it not seem as devices. For all of them it involves not changing much and is mostly considered safer.

[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.

This is far more divisive and by being a question far more thought provoking. It brings up the importance of where they are cultivation wise and for their future. It also in a way goes against and provokes CRX to respond to what her actual problems are. She is opening up, and this almost pries her open even more. The use of divergences are interesting too as it makes any revaluation occurring at this moment and others much more important. It means throwing away the complete certiantity in the current set path, and building up far more drastic changes is allowed here. Interestingly, Meizhen is the one who can relate the most to this as her path has changed pretty drastically.
 
[X] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.

I vote this in hopes of Ling Qi mirroring this towards her own snarl, because maybe the stars align and trying to help someone reveal their own domain problems will help Ling Qi reveal her own problem spots.
My second reason is simple: Loyalty. CRX won't face this alone with Ling Qi AND Bai Meizhen nearby! They are pretty good friends equally ambitious after all.
Something which we have not seen by her Mother as far as I know. Shenhuas closest Person being her Lover, if I am not wrong and also there aren't any great number of friends of hers I could name. I suppose rising to the top stage so quickly does have some drawbacks after all.
Someone mentioned that Ling Qi should maybe try to act as a teacher and I think either way being able to see Domain snarls better than most would be awesome!
 
[X] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.

This course of action is fine, and the other option is vague in its implications. I don't know what this vote is asking us, and I doubt any of the rest of you do either. Therefore, I am not committing myself to a decision I do not understand. The option I am selecting is straightforward, I get it, I know what it is. In terms of both purpose and effect, the other eludes me.
 
[X] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
 
[X] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
 
Mmm, I'm kinda with Abeo and Naths and others here. The first option is nice and clear and makes sense as a response - even if many don't really agree with its ideas. The second, otoh, feels kinda awkward as presented...

Broadly, looking at how people are reading things and their intent, I would prefer something like:

[] Be reassuring. Everyone knows that one cannot expect to perfectly copy another. Even if one has an example to follow, everyone still has find their own expression of their Way.​

This takes the logical and reasonable starting point and presentation of the first, and then tactfully leads into the point I think we really want to make which is for her to think about who Renxiang really wants to be, and reassure her that that's fine and normal. Honestly, it could potentially even be the way yrs was going to write the second option anyway 🤷

(also, I would like:
-[] We chose to follow you because you're a good person who is worth following. We believe in you Renxiang!
and then they can have an emotional anime moment :V)
 
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The fact that yrsillar specifically said this:
yrsillar said:
AN: Sorry guys, can't figure out a way to offer QM guidance here without removing the point of the choice. You're gonna have to discuss this one.
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implies to me that the poisoned-pill nature of both options is kind of deliberate; we're supposed to find this an objectionable choice.

That said, @yrsillar, if at all possible, it would be nice if after this vote ends, you shed some light on the design intent here. Groping in the dark becomes a lot more tolerable if later you can look back on things and understand why it was set up as it was; otherwise it just feels kind of arbitrary. Maybe that won't be possible for various reasons, but any exposition would be good.
 
[X] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
 
Mmm, Ling Qi may have different mother issues to Renxiang, bit I think she can empathise with this somewhat. Imagine how gutted we'd be if one of our core arts ended up domain incompatible? Think about the efficiency loss!

[jk] commiserate with Renxiang over the efficiency loss.
 
No... no, we're being too cowardly here. Cai Renxiang needs some real encouragement.

[!] Congratulate her. Seeing through the false merits of an art crafted by one at the peak is no small feat. She will only grow stronger from this.
 
AbeoLogos said:
I agree with @picklepikkl that the point seems to be some greater meaning to the choice. I just can't discern what it is, the question asked of us nor the correct context of its origin.
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Mmm, the obvious primary reading of the vote and its significance is that it affects Renxiang's path from here. On one route she tries to cleave to her mother's way as closely as possible. This may make things simpler for the moment, but potentially risks a greater Way break later on when it's more problematic. On the other, Renxiang tries to find her own expression of that path, and is encouraged to examine who she wants to be. This likely makes things more difficult in the short term, but may smooth things out long term and, hopefully, make Renxiang happier (eventually).

This is all further complicated by the fact that being able to use Shenhua's cheat likely requires one to be on her Way if it's possible, and not having that option woulld also have long term ramifications.

This reading of the vote appears to be one that is broadly held I think? The controversy seems to lie more in the potential implications of the vote for Ling Qi's character, in particular around uncertainty in how she's going to express the second option.
 
Erebeal said:
Mmm, the obvious primary reading of the vote and its significance is that it affects Renxiang's path from here. On one route she tries to cleave to her mother's way as closely as possible. This may make things simpler for the moment, but potentially risks a greater Way break later on when it's more problematic. On the other, Renxiang tries to find her own expression of that path, and is encouraged to examine who she wants to be. This likely makes things more difficult in the short term, but may smooth things out long term and, hopefully, make Renxiang happier (eventually).

This is all further complicated by the fact that being able to use Shenhua's cheat likely requires one to be on her Way if it's possible, and not having that option woulld also have long term ramifications.

This reading of the vote appears to be one that is broadly held I think? The controversy seems to lie more in the potential implications of the vote for Ling Qi's character, in particular around uncertainty in how she's going to express the second option.
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I strongly doubt Cai Renxiang is going to be swayed that deeply by a tea-time chat. Doesn't seem likely yrs would be so insistent on hanging back if it were that simple, either. Whatever this is, it's just the start of a larger process.
 
AbeoLogos said:
I strongly doubt Cai Renxiang is going to be swayed that deeply by a tea-time chat. Doesn't seem likely yrs would be so insistent on hanging back if it were that simple, either. Whatever this is, it's just the start of a larger process.
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Ooor, this could be the vote to decide what Ling Qi's actions will be regarding this 'larger process'. A Vote of Intent, if you will.

After all, there is still a war to be fought. If Yrs decides to micromanage CRX, then that means less time for war and other things.
 
[X] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
 
[X]Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
 
[X] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.

Don't really like the options presented but this is the one I'm going with. Don't even think this is a best of the worst options.
 
AbeoLogos said:
I agree with @picklepikkl that the point seems to be some greater meaning to the choice. I just can't discern what it is, the question asked of us nor the correct context of its origin.
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As i see it, the point is simply choosing between modern irl western morality or in-world classic eastern morality:
What is the most important: the individual or the group s/he belongs to ?
Should we advise CRX to follow her own path/ideas/dao above the guidance she is being provided, or should she trust in the wisdom and goodwill of those that came before her (aka her mom) ?

Once considered in this light there is very little surprise about how the thread is going to vote on the issue.
 
@yrsillar Are we permitted write-ins here? Because if so I'd really like to vote [] Be reassuring. Everyone knows that one cannot expect to perfectly copy another. Even if one has an example to follow, everyone still has find their own expression of their Way.

As it is, I'm abstaining because neither of these options are good.
 
TheBiggerFish said:
@yrsillar Are we permitted write-ins here? Because if so I'd really like to vote [] Be reassuring. Everyone knows that one cannot expect to perfectly copy another. Even if one has an example to follow, everyone still has find their own expression of their Way.

As it is, I'm abstaining because neither of these options are good.
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Probably no write-ins, due to that the last time yrs allowed it ppl tried to rewrite LQ's entire character.
 
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